8.1.2 Is Not Adequate. No You Did Not Listen to Us.

StarOfElyon · July 2022

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Whoever thought up Nocturnal's Ploy does not PvP. You didn't listen to us about DC, you didn't listen to us about PB but I'm begging you ZOS please scrap this set.

Make Dark Convergence, Brokensoul, Plague Break and Nocturnal's Ploy into PVE sets that don't work while Battle Spirit is active.

Oakenaxe · July 2022

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Make Dark Convergence, Brokensoul, Plague Break and Nocturnal's Ploy into PVE sets that don't work while Battle Spirit is active.

They have to start balancing PvE and PvP separately asap.

VixxVexx wrote: »

First dark convergance, plaguebreak, then oakensoul, savage werewolf, now nocturnal's ploy...
I am in pain.

I feel you...

FantasticFreddie · July 2022

Mannjdyr wrote: »

(
Yes ! good ZoS very thanks !

[snip] many of us are enjoying this future update.
)

Can you say why?

[edited to remove quote]

Klingenlied · July 2022

Omg. This whole stuff is like: Lets do go for a change! "Avalanche unleashed!" - " Hey, that was a bit much!" - "Don't worry, we'll cover up with some snowflakes!"

This is what it seemed to me. You guys destroyed something that was fine. Now you don't know what is right or wrong and just go fixing a few details in the hope everything will suddenly be all right.

People did complain that you significantly nerfed their performance. That is still not fixed.

Then there is Warden and Sorc. Gutted completely, left do die.

I was really hopeful you'd be working on some modifiers because one can not simply design games via spreadsheet. But seems you try to do so anyway. What a disappointment.

Jazraena · July 2022

Mannjdyr wrote: »

(
Yes ! good ZoS very thanks !

[snip] many of us are enjoying this future update.
)

Amazing, I wasn't aware I was part of an elitist minority, given how few trials I see from the inside.

Guess what? This mid-tier, theme-loving player still dislikes this update, and I have yet to see a single solid reasoning on what's good about it. All I see is essential agreement with their mission statement, which isn't worth much considering the changes don't do what they want them to do and they even did a step backwards with today's PTS patch.

[edited to remove quote]

xaraan · July 2022

Definitely not enough was done to address all the concerns.

Not sure enough will be done by the time this goes live either. Especially after zos and some devs got so defensive, they will want to push stuff through just to make a point, whether it's good or bad.

Only thing that will get their attention is a loss of players [snip]

[edited for bashing]

LaerothKeykalyn · July 2022

Nocturnal's Ploy top set, love him

thorwyn · July 2022

[snip]
Absolutely ridiculous.

[edited for bashing]

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

Styxius wrote: »

Enough ranting, ZOS needs to get its priorities back on identity instead of their spread sheets and focus on making the players happy not their oven. Players don't like cookie cutters.

heck, I half want to just quote your post in mine at the start of the thread.

I really, strongly, agree with this quoted part in particular. It really seems that they don't care about class identity at all.
Did no one learn any lessons from the flop of D&D 4E? That's what this is starting to look like. A cookie-cutter repeat of specific choices for specific roles regardless of what the class is supposed to feel like to play. DPS? Want to be a spellcaster? To flippin bad. Enjoy your daggers. What a joke.

MetallicMonk · July 2022

Sorc still a dead class, didn't do anything about Nocturnal's despite countless PvPers warning them. Standard zos.

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

I interrupt this chain of justified complaints to actually give credit to mods actually taking time to just snip parts out rather than delete entire posts

You may now return to pointing out why this entire patch is garbage.

Toxic_Hemlock · July 2022

No oakensoul changes in todays patch, I guess they don't even listen to their streamers...

Old enough to not be prone to panic, hence needing the ring the way it was, but I'll be leaving my ESO+ sub if this version goes live.

pklemming · July 2022

Cancelled my sub. Wife cancelled her sub and is playing GW2 and FF now. Have other friends that have done similar either going to FF or GW2.I am mostly on Rimworld now but will probably get pulled in to FF as I have most of my friends there.

Understand this has gone beyond the ability of ZoS to fix for a lot of people. They are not coming back. Not when other games don't treat their players this bad.

They still have time to mitigate the loss with an announcement rather than let it continue to week 5.

Highly disappointed in ZoS.

gariondavey · July 2022

divnyi wrote: »

Waited to see the changes Week 3.
I'm done. Maybe if my words doesn't matter, my uninstall will.

I feel ya. Always liked your unique build videos and talking theorycraft with you.

Didgerion · July 2022

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I feel it's already a big improvement, but it's still far from being good.

Is it so hard to make every weapon meant for damage to be a viable damage option for front and off bar? Is it so hard to nerf the overpowered sets that favor "the ceiling" and buff sets with easy uptimes? The reason Silks of the Sun etc were locked at 400 weapon/spell damage as opposed to the 600 that War Maiden and Swamp Raider enjoy is because their effects could be made use of by light attacks of the respective element. If LAs don't scale anymore then at least buff these sets. If you want to close the skill gap then please just close the skill gap instead of messing with everybody and not even doing what you wanted to be doing.

But why do I even bother. My feedback won't be read and even if I went into meticulous detail, am I the one who's job it is to balance this game? No. Then why does it feel like we players are the ones who have to do all the work here?

It feels like an improvement because they rolled back few changes.
All they need to do is to rollback even more changes!

The current Live version should be taken as a balance reference and not the scrambled 8.1.0 version.

As many had suggested I think it is a better call to rollback everything back and surgically fix the existing problems we have on Live server.

$spacefracking$ · July 2022

hey, ny class got screwed last patch, and is good this patch. someone has to be in last

the way I see it, stamsorcs we're parsing 140k with 7 casted abilities, and there's a ranking every patch

karma, deal with it.

pklemming · July 2022

spacefracking wrote: »

hey, ny class got screwed last patch, and is good this patch. someone has to be in last

the way I see it, stamsorcs we're parsing 140k with 7 casted abilities, and there's a ranking every patch

karma, deal with it.

This shows you really don't understand what this patch entails. Your argument is incredibly poor. Basically it is, "My class is fine I don't care".

You understand what they did to your dots and self healing, your light attacks?The fact that the other dps you may happen to group with git nerfed too, as did healers(and to some extent tanks).

Did you even got to PTS to run some parses and test out the changes?

I think the true karma will be when these changes hit live and you get to test you new 'improved' character, in any challenging content.

IZZEFlameLash · July 2022

washbern wrote: »

i agree with the masses.

while the slightest tweaks to a few dots are appreciated, are you seriously not going to address Sorcs and Wardens? Are you seriously going to leave a 10% discrepancy between ranged and melee weapons?! WHY?! Daggers already outperform staves. Why beat staves and bows into the ground??? So much for build diversity for anyone who wants to play bow / bow or staff / staff. Are you seriously going to ignore the ONE SINGLE THING that gave accessibility to many plaers (Oakensoul ring)?

'Risk' when there's literally more or less the same risk in many dungeon mechanics for both ranged and melee builds. It is almost as if tanks that pull bosses so that DPS can do things from flanks don't exist in ZOSverse

Kusto · July 2022

Lmao Zos, you did it again. You wanted to close the player gap and make content more accessible but ended up with totally opposite. The initial pts notes were actually ok despite so much outrage. Dps was down but the gap actually closed a bit and less experienced players found rotations easier to manage. But now we got so many different timers on abilities that you definitely need a good dynamic rotation or your dps will tank.
I'm not worried tho, I still parse 100k+ lol.

IZZEFlameLash · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

Lmao Zos, you did it again. You wanted to close the player gap and make content more accessible but ended up with totally opposite. The initial pts notes were actually ok despite so much outrage. Dps was down but the gap actually closed a bit and less experienced players found rotations easier to manage. But now we got so many different timers on abilities that you definitely need a good dynamic rotation or your dps will tank.
I'm not worried tho, I still parse 100k+ lol.

Ah yes, let's make it more accessible by tanking everyone's abilities so that DPS is even more important and DPS gatekeeping even more crucial for the high end groups to achieve things that they want to achieve. Clearly, lowering the DPS that results in groups needing to squeeze every bit of DPS from all its members will surely help light attack spammers you see quite often overland and random dungeon groups be viable for vet contents where there are one shot mechanics, dps checks and heal checks. Clearly, patch 1/2 was the hallmark of accessibility because it also lowered the floor. Indeed, it closed the gap by not closing the gap.

sabresandiego_ESO · July 2022

Game design isn’t a democracy. If it was then the game would be in the gutter due to mob rule, biased masses.

Game designers listen to feedback and then do what they think is best anyways. I’ve seen games go to hell because the devs listened to the biggest cries in the forums. It’s good that ESO devs have the courage to do what they think is right and not simply listen to the loudest people.

Freelancer_ESO · July 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

The DOT/HOT changes were only the tip of the Iceberg with our dissatisfaction with this patch, you have still completely failed to address how ANY of these changes address "accessibility".

You're still nerfing light and heavy attacks into the ground - a major source of damage for new and learning players.

You're still nerfing Sorcerer into the ground because one overperforming set made it seem too strong (it wasn't), and a bunch of other unnecessary punitive changes some other classes like warden and necro.

You're still adding ridiculous sets to the game like Nocturnal's Ploy that are practically girftwrapped for the worst part of PVP (ballgroups).

What part of stop this madness did you not understand? [snip] Stop this now.

[edited for bashing]

You might want to give the light attacks a spin on a poorly geared character.

Damage is basically the same or up a little if the gearing is particularly dreadful/tanky.

If you toss on Empower, the damage is up for many builds that a new or learning player would actually have.

One of ZOS's new Dungeon sets gives Empower to everyone in an area and you can have 100% uptime with it.

The heavy attack builds definitely did get a bad outcome.

FlamingBeard · July 2022

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Game design isn’t a democracy. If it was then the game would be in the gutter due to mob rule, biased masses.

Game designers listen to feedback and then do what they think is best anyways. I’ve seen games go to hell because the devs listened to the biggest cries in the forums. It’s good that ESO devs have the courage to do what they think is right and not simply listen to the loudest people.

How about stop complaining about complaints and simply let other players leave their feedback so that maybe their preferred spec won't be trash for the next 6 months due to random alterations to class-defining build aspects?

AinSoph · July 2022

They really put a bandaid on an unstable bridge, at this point I'll cancel as well but it might boost statistics to cancel a few days into release, where the massive amount of players who don't frequent forums feel one of the worst changes to be conceived do the same.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Game design isn’t a democracy. If it was then the game would be in the gutter due to mob rule, biased masses.

Game designers listen to feedback and then do what they think is best anyways. I’ve seen games go to hell because the devs listened to the biggest cries in the forums. It’s good that ESO devs have the courage to do what they think is right and not simply listen to the loudest people.

Normally I agree with this sentiment except that their changes didn't actually have the result they intended:

Change 1: Weaving remove the heavy impact of weaving by making LA/HA no longer scale with stats.

Change 2: Increase the Duration of DoTs to make combat more "Accessible" for newer players.

Result 1: Due to the Gutting of DoT damage (which I'll go over in a second) LA Weaving became even more important via using sets like Relequin and Maelstrom weapons to make up the difference in lost damage.

Result 2: While Combat Rotations are technically easier the overall Damage Reduction in DoTs across the board made Content across the board less Accessible at all levels.

Bonus Result: Classes Like Sorc and Warden also had bizarre balance changes and reworks that tanked their overall damage even more than the rest of the classes.

I would love to trust in Zos and believe they know what is best, but these Balance Changes do not reflect that.

Riptide · July 2022

I just wish we could watch a stream of the devs doing some of the recent trials, on vet, on pts. Particularly if it included some of the principal actors in this.

To heck with crowns, I’d spend 20 bucks on that. Right now, where do I pony up.

BahometZ · July 2022

They really need to revert most of the changes back to u34. There was some good stuff in there, like adjusting some overtuned pvp sets, and making jabs an 0.8s channel, but otherwise terrible out of touch changes that no one asked for, wants, or needs.

But they don't seem to realise just how much people dislike it, and will push through with their personal philosophies, over-riding the actual enjoyment players are seeking.

The last couple patches have been pretty good, and although hybridisation upturned things, there was an understanding that further adjustments would be tweaking around the edges, finalising the hybridisation process, maybe improving morphs that no one uses and slight tweaks to outlying skills.

Instead we get a very tone deaf and disingenuous update.

Nerfing individual player damage whilst ignoring the real damage gap of overtuned support sets and organised raid buffs, betrays a fundamental lack of awareness about how their own game is played. It's insulting to say this i know, but how else do you explain it.

There is so much to unpack about how this update misses the point, which is why you see thread after thread of apoplectic players.

Unless the devs have a serious about turn and mea culpa, I'll be cancelling my eso+. I already regret purchasing high isle, a sensation I have never experienced with an eso dlc.

Cyber10 · July 2022

Oakenaxe wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Make Dark Convergence, Brokensoul, Plague Break and Nocturnal's Ploy into PVE sets that don't work while Battle Spirit is active.

They have to start balancing PvE and PvP separately asap.

VixxVexx wrote: »

First dark convergance, plaguebreak, then oakensoul, savage werewolf, now nocturnal's ploy...
I am in pain.

I feel you...

This is important. These sets do not need to be nerfed in a PvE environment. If they create problems and balance issues in PvP then they should be balanced in a PvP environment only.

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

Now that additional DPS data from PTS has come in, this patch is looking, somehow, even worse!
ZOS has managed to implement massive damage losses with this new nonsense. They not only did not listen to our feedback, they actively made the situation worse. This is absolutely ridiculous. How much is too much?
Who do we have to go to to get this combat balance team OUT?! That vote-of-no-confidence post is looking more and more to be right on the money.

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

It’s good that ESO devs have the courage to do what they think is right and not simply listen to the loudest people.

Do you think this is how we got faction locks and a dead no-proc server in PvP?

All that dev time invested into faction locks, yet the tinfoil hats still scream about cheating spies. All that dev time invested in a curated set list, yet the bruised egos who blamed their deaths on "no-skill procs" went right back to the proc server.

Why not just ban the handful of malicious trolls, and nerf the handful of obnoxious outlier sets? Why does everything they do require a massive sledgehammer overhaul to problems that never existed?