Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?

I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.

Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.

Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.

Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.

Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.

I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.

Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?

I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.

Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.

Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.

Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.

Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.

I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.

Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.

It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?

ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.

I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.

Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.

It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?

ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.

I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.

Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.

To be fair to the example you gave regarding PVE. ZOS plans and programs those encounters they design them. They have options available to punish players for overburning a boss during an encounter that do not involve nerfing player builds. Everything from boss heals, mini bosses, one shot kills, enraged, and a slew of other mechanics. It's a bit hard to blame the players when ZOS's solution to difficultly is simply to add more health and not more complex mechanics.

PVP on the other hand is player driven, players create the encounters. Granted zos designs those too but the player has to go up against someone that could be running an unknown build. No two pvp encounters are exactly the same.

Bit of a difference. And yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.

ZOS doesn't usually just arbitrarily decide (cough cough Arctic Blast) to nerf something though. Nerfs come about as a result of the Devs deciding something is over performing. The question is what factors are leading them to that decision? In the mind of PvE players the answer is always complaints from PvP players in the forums. I see this in every thread discussing any nerf that happens. And most of the time they are just flat out wrong in doing so because, as PvE players love to point out, the vast majority of players in game are doing PvE activities and as such that aspect of the game receives much more scrutiny from the Devs. Whenever there is something that works too well in PvE encounters (especially high end content) the Devs WILL take notice and do something to bring it back in line.
You're certainly correct in pointing out they could go about doing so in ways that are less disruptive to the builds players are using. I still lament the loss of my high health recovery mist form tank which was equally fun and effective to play with in PvP or in a Vet DLC dungeon.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.

Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.

The best part is their Comment:

Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.

So They think it's fine that you can just back up, completely avoid the stun and waste one of Warden's ONLY Stuns, while Templar, Sorc, and DK just have nice Instant Cast On-Demand Stuns, but man that Dang Warden trying to have a Mediocre Stun AND do Damage?

Rant over. Point is, Stop making Warden Jump Through Hoops to be Mediocre at Best.

Thank You for attending my Ted Talk

While I still believe the change to Arctic Wind is uncalled for I gotta point out you're misreading the part about "backing off". They actually increased the length of time the stacks stay on the opponent so if they dip out for a second then come back in range they don't reset the stacks back to zero. Doesn't mean it's a good change but give them credit for seeing that aspect the way you do.