Really pissed off at the upcoming DK nerfs

Vrienda

Being made weaker because of what PvPers do seriously sucks. I was finally enjoying DK for the first time in years, I only ever PvP for the stupid twice a year mayham/IC event. I don't enjoy either. Yet I still get punished in every other piece of content because my main is the wrong class.

xXSilverDragonXx

PVE and PVP should have always been balanced separately. That they never had the ability to do this or chose to not do this shows a complete inability to understand how different the two things are. It's like comparing Apples and Zucchini. And as long as they continue to balance for two different types of games they will *** off both sides and continue to fail.

In fairness to ZOS employees, I do believe that this is out of their hands. TPTB either had no clue or didn't care. All about the benjamins.

MidniteOwl1913

JanTanhide wrote: »

I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.

It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?

ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.

I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.

This is exactly what I will be doing and for exactly these reasons! I'm beyond tired of the nerf/buff/nerf/buff/nerfneftneft merry-go-round.

Blinx

the longer I play this game, the more disillusioned I become, and I find myself playing less, and less.
It's either class nerfs, or cp nerfs, way too many nerfs imo, how about buffing all the other classes to be on par with dk instead?!

Kesstryl

I got so burned out from nerfs and changes every three months over the years that I eventually quit endgame (and took time off) and went back to simple questing and housing when I came back. That worked fine until AwA and managed to thwart that too as now only one character can ever get credit for specific content and all the others don't matter and their history got deleted. It is very difficult to stay positive as a player in ESO, even more so for all of us who remember what we used to have over eight years. I did also stop playing for spans of time after nerfs and my progression groups falling apart as the fallout. I'm currently not playing now on live after AwA. Some of us just don't have the stamina to keep up with the changes and constant roller coaster effect. Some of us would love to have a little more stability and less massive swings all the time. It's discouraging and exhausting.

biovitalb16_ESO

Just go templar, put jabs on 1 to 5 and literally whatever ult you want and lol to solo all content with little to no effort.

MidniteOwl1913

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Just go templar, put jabs on 1 to 5 and literally whatever ult you want and lol to solo all content with little to no effort.

Until the next patch...

Mr_Stach

Blinx wrote: »

the longer I play this game, the more disillusioned I become, and I find myself playing less, and less.
It's either class nerfs, or cp nerfs, way too many nerfs imo, how about buffing all the other classes to be on par with dk instead?!

Hescrow

ZOS stop nerfing class just up the others in order to have a great balance and Big fun in this game which is lacking serverely so far!

Drammanoth

Finally, we will be able to kill the immortal DK in PvP. Always returning from the brink of death to full health...

Now, the above aside, but apart from nerfs or buffs, people forget about player gear and, above all else, SKILLS.

This is not WoW, where one's gear was the signifier of win/lose.

EmEm_Oh

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?

I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.

Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.

Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.

Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.

Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.

I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.

Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.

Thank some of the fellow streamers for the nerf with their easy trash/troll pvp builds that are cloned by many.

People then complain on here and then the nerf happens.

Three problems. Streamers giving way more publicity to builds and second, the ignorance of not knowing how to play in pvp against those troll builds. Third, pve being affected by a negligent nerf.

pklemming

How the hell are you CURRENTLY having sustain issues? Our DKs are over sustaining so much, they need to remove CP to get sustain to a reasonable level.

The nerf is a little over the top for a pure stam or mag DK, As a hybrid, though, sustain will be fine. Of course this means, the stam DKs 'whip ability' is unsustainable. So glad they added a specific note to the patch when that was changed stating it was done to finally allow stam DK to whip after so many years of it being asked for.

Also, you address your class issues, you do not attempt to get other classes nerfed or you will have zero sympathy on the forums.

TPishek

Sustain should never be touched when the issue is too much damage. People LIKE being able to actually play your game ZOS, people like being able to use skills. No one likes running out of resources 20 second into a fight. No one cares a single bit about your arbitrary "standards". Just cut the damage (Whip Procs) or jack up the price of specific skills (Burning Talons, Dragon Blood), don't completely eviscerate the only reason people play.

magnus01

the fix is quite simple but would require more work from them and the fix is this

all pve gear and skills remain in pve only they are balanced for pve and for pve only

pvp has its own gear sets and its skills balanced for pvp only

ff14 does this to avoid killing pve builds and needlessly nerfing pve ability's

because like a poster said above... pve is made with npc that have millions in hp

pvp has no balance because you run pve skill sets made to do pve damage it's sad but true and not even that hard to figure out

as far as DK tho welcome to the club of every VAMP user....
now thats a class line that is completely useless out side of roleplay now ...

magnus01

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only fights I have ever given up on were against today's DK.

Good that they are being nerfed.

When 5 or 6 players cannot touch a DK, when they are working together, something is wrong.

Its not DK's fault. That's fault of the meta in PvP. Almost every class is building to be tanky and DK is the best in this meta because was designed as the tank. If healing would stop being so strong in PvP DK wouldnt be so OP anymore. But ppl said a lot of times already that Cross healing and hybrisation give too much healing to everyone...

What you're ignoring is that while all classes are building tankier only DK and Templar are so tanky that they can stand their ground to fight 4 people yet still build to have the damage to decimate other players in 1-2 GCDs by simply using class abilities. Those two classes don't need to crutch on proc sets such as Caluurion's like a NB or Dark Conversion like a Necro does.
And the difference between DK and Templar this patch has simply been that an outnumbered Templar getting constantly pressured eventually runs out of resources while a Dk basically has infinite sustain. Both are extremely OP for the length a typical PvP fight lasts; and Templars are losing the insanely high heals from living dark to bring them back in line.
Now if a DK wants to build to be tanky and have good sustain so it takes a half hour for 5-6 players to kill them that's all good. But when they can get do that simply from class passives and abilities while being able to wear nothing but stat buffing damage sets so they can also consistently pump out enough damage to kill other tanky players instantly that's an issue. And the reason 75% of the players in Cyro are on DK's right now.
And to the OP's assertion that the nerfs are a response solely to PvP concerns: What do you think influenced the Devs more, anecdotal stories of DK's told by PvP players in the forums or hard evidence in the form of in-game PvE leaderboards, on which DK's are placing in 95 out of the top 100 spots week in and week out?

I don't know, from what I've seen Necro and WArden can do the same thing to an extent and it's more because of gear they refuse to nerf like Pariah, Malacath (removes the damage penalty of low crit), Frenzied Momentum, etc.

I mean, it's to the point that being vamp and slotting the known "OP" gear gives a massive advantage vs anyone that isn't slotting it on any class.

The game's balance is a joke and has been since mythics were introduced.

i can't take you seriously when you say VAMPS are op lol hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha
vamps have nothing now like nothing to use for the downsides but please go into more detail why you think VAMPS are op

MEBengalsFan2001

Tell me a mmo game that doesn’t make adjustment, I hear crickets. That’s because all mmo games are adjusted over time even COD has adjustments.

As others pointed out the DK sustain is over the top at the moment and causes the class to have an unfair advantage. It needed to be adjusted. Next up is healing, that needs some adjustment as it is over the top as well.

Urzigurumash

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?

I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.

Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.

Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.

Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.

Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.

I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.

Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.

Thank some of the fellow streamers for the nerf with their easy trash/troll pvp builds that are cloned by many.

People then complain on here and then the nerf happens.

Three problems. Streamers giving way more publicity to builds and second, the ignorance of not knowing how to play in pvp against those troll builds. Third, pve being affected by a negligent nerf.

Except we have No Proc PvP where there aren't really any secret or trick builds. Conspicuously a series of buffs to DK and Templar came not long after the advent of No Proc PvP.

Urzigurumash

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Tell me a mmo game that doesn’t make adjustment, I hear crickets. That’s because all mmo games are adjusted over time even COD has adjustments.

As others pointed out the DK sustain is over the top at the moment and causes the class to have an unfair advantage. It needed to be adjusted. Next up is healing, that needs some adjustment as it is over the top as well.

Yeah, I also think that with a game this complicated and with this many players, "testing on a live server" is a sound approach to fine-tuning balance. It would take the Devs millions of hours to arrive at the same experiences the public will after a few months.

Tannus15

omg stop blaming the nerf on PvP, it's easily as much for PvE.

DK single target damage is decent, but their cleave damage is nuts which is why they underperform on the dummy parse and are stomping everything in actual content.

Sorcs on the other hand excel at single target and have the worst cleave in the game, which is why they dominate the skelly parse meta and are almost unseen on the leader boards.

DPS rankings for vRG HM



DPS rankings for Oaxiltso HM, cleave heavy fight

Sleeping_OwI

Tannus15 wrote: »

omg stop blaming the nerf on PvP, it's easily as much for PvE.

DK single target damage is decent, but their cleave damage is nuts which is why they underperform on the dummy parse and are stomping everything in actual content.

Sorcs on the other hand excel at single target and have the worst cleave in the game, which is why they dominate the skelly parse meta and are almost unseen on the leader boards.

DPS rankings for vRG HM



DPS rankings for Oaxiltso HM, cleave heavy fight

Ok, DK damage is really high right now, fair enough! Nerf the damage a little! Why do they gotta gut sustain like that? No one finds fun in constant struggle with resources and running out. That was the main point of my post, that no one minds a reasonable damage nerf if it's necessary, but such a heavy sustain nerf is actually disruptive and unfun to many DKs' playstyle.

Solariken

Maybe if they'd dissolve the class system the nerf swings wouldn't sting so bad.

tauriel01

This is why the concept of balancing classes across the game in PVP AND PVE is simply impossible and counterproductive. I just don't understand why game companies continue to try to "fix" the balance issue by trying to force the class into two very different holes. "Hey x class is unbalanced, let's make changes!" "yeah, cause that worked SO well last time" /facepalm

Extinct_Solo_Player

Drammanoth wrote: »

Finally, we will be able to kill the immortal DK in PvP. Always returning from the brink of death to full health...

Now, the above aside, but apart from nerfs or buffs, people forget about player gear and, above all else, SKILLS.

This is not WoW, where one's gear was the signifier of win/lose.

necromancer with 20k intensive mender says hello

Elrond87

Swings & Roundabouts

VvwvenomwvV

What kills an MMO is when it becomes stagnant. As much as we've all wished for things to happen in a way we want, it's never going to happen. Zos will forever be making adjustments to everything in the game. That's how you keep the game fresh, and people interested.

Just imagine how excited you'll be when they buff the DK again down the road. It will happen at some point. Change is the only constant.

MakoRuu

Been a StamDK since launch day. Still have the same Orc.

It's been a damn nightmare rollercoaster ride.

I'm basically done with ESO for now, regret purchasing High Isles.

xPoisin

So it means that my MagDK is goin to be retired again…
and hello Templar/Warden/Necro again…

This happens every patch, but for DK it was a looooong waiting time to be great again. And now it is over, as usual ☹️☹️☹️☹️

Panomania

The game's balance is a joke and has been since mythics were introduced.

The game has been unbalanced since... always, and always will be. You simply cannot try to let pvp and pve share worlds, rulesets and gear capabilities. As long as ZOS insists on keeping both on one server, one rule set, we'll continue to see this type thing happen... as it has since the start.

Aldoss

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Nerf the damage a little! Why do they gotta gut sustain like that? No one finds fun in constant struggle with resources and running out.

They are doing exactly what you're asking. DKs don't make any sacrifice for sustain, meaning they get to go full damage completely down the list. DKs are operating with 500 regen right now and are still removing passives and CP to get their effective use of Bahsei's (a set that only works in PvE - in case all the people shouting for ZOS to balance PvE and PvP separately didn't notice). Try and run with 500 regen on any other class and tell me how you fare.

Nerf that one passive and bam, suddenly DKs have to compromise. They didn't nerf whip damage at all, but if you now have to slot some jewelry glyphs, or change your mundus, or change your CP, or change your gear choices, then the tooltip drops and total damage output drops.

Nerfing combustion nerfs their damage by addressing the root problem. Would you rather whip start at a 5k tooltip and a 3x proc only do 10k (like most spammables) that you can spam with reckless abandon or would you rather still be given a 20k whip, but you need to think about how you use it?

Olen_Mikko

As a nightblade main from 2014, i really don't feel any sympathies to anyone crying about nerfs while their class can be tanky and deal lot of damage at the same time.