Sleeping_OwI wrote: »omg stop blaming the nerf on PvP, it's easily as much for PvE.
DK single target damage is decent, but their cleave damage is nuts which is why they underperform on the dummy parse and are stomping everything in actual content.
Sorcs on the other hand excel at single target and have the worst cleave in the game, which is why they dominate the skelly parse meta and are almost unseen on the leader boards.
DPS rankings for vRG HM
DPS rankings for Oaxiltso HM, cleave heavy fight
Ok, DK damage is really high right now, fair enough! Nerf the damage a little! Why do they gotta gut sustain like that? No one finds fun in constant struggle with resources and running out. That was the main point of my post, that no one minds a reasonable damage nerf if it's necessary, but such a heavy sustain nerf is actually disruptive and unfun to many DKs' playstyle.
VvwvenomwvV wrote: »What kills an MMO is when it becomes stagnant. As much as we've all wished for things to happen in a way we want, it's never going to happen. Zos will forever be making adjustments to everything in the game. That's how you keep the game fresh, and people interested.
Just imagine how excited you'll be when they buff the DK again down the road. It will happen at some point. Change is the only constant.
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?
I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.
Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.
Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.
Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.
Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.
I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.
Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Surprise! DKs were performing well in pvp recently, so ZOS has decided to hit all DKs with a giant nerf hammer across the board... again... Jeez, when has that ever happened before, only about 20 times or so?
I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil. And yet every second patch they butcher my class and nerf it into the ground, why? Because some pvp players make strong builds with DK, so naturally EVERYONE including pvE players should pay for that.
Only for about 6 months DKs were finally in a good spot in pvE with decent damage and sustain, and now we're back to last year and before when DKs had craap sustain, mediocre damage and pathetic self heal.
But the nerfs that have left me in awe the most are Combustion and Burning Embers.
Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf), sorcerers have the strong crit surge, necros have a dedicated strong healer pet, wardens have so much built-in healing, NBs too have a healing spammable or sth like that iirc... the ONLY passive heal that DKs had was Burning Embers which only in this patch was reliable and useful, and they decided to nerf that by a massive 50%... am I crazy for thinking this is unfair and uncalled for? Every other class has a strong self heal except DK, and they decide to hit the little self-heal DK has? I'm just speechless at how stupid this is.
Combuation gives back 500 resources every 0.5 second after the last DK buff... You might think it's a little too good on paper, but believe me, I main a magDK with dual wield, one fire dagger & one poison dagger, one of them with the newly buffed Charged trait, 3 out of 8 of my main abilities are stam, meaning I trigger the Combustion passive all the time, and I STILL have sustain issues half the times and need extra resources from the healer, and remember this is DK in its prime. Now this is before the upcoming nerf, which turns the Combustion cooldown from 0.5 second to 3 seconds... SIX TIMES worse now. Not two times, not three, not four... SIX times worse. I literally won't be able to sustain anymore and believe me I've already hybridized my entire build and I'm using all the stam morphs and skills than I can, and it still won't be enough. What if I want to change to Inferno back bar like the old times? Too bad, I'm all out of magicka after 2 rotations. Instead of being a nice "option", hybridization is now mandatory it seems, but even that won't be enough for DKs.
Do you ever see them nerf the easy-mode OP since launch classes, sorcerer and templar? Or the precious all-around-strong dlc class Necro? No, it's always the poor *** Dragonknight that's consistently being butchered every year, just because it's good in pvp. Yeah we had a good run for about 6 months (compared to the 6+ years of some other classes...) but now fun time is over, the fun police ZOS has caught up to us with their "balance" changes.
I'm just so tired of my class being nerfed into the ground just because some pvp players make strong builds with it... Why can't they do it in a way that doesn't ruin the class for pvE? Why can't they just separate pvp and pve once and for all and end all this endless nerf buff nerf buff cycle? Sure it would take some work at first but it would avoid so much work and balancing trouble down the road. They're always hurting classes and abilities in pvE just because something is too good in pvP and is being abused by some people.
Sorry for the long rant, thanks for reading.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Headline: PVEer blames PVP for nerfs to DK, his favorite class.
Me looking at current PVE leaderboards where they apparently do "Decent" damage:
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
One really good Necro
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Headline: PVEer blames PVP for nerfs to DK, his favorite class.
Me looking at current PVE leaderboards where they apparently do "Decent" damage:
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
One really good Necro
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
DK
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »omg stop blaming the nerf on PvP, it's easily as much for PvE.
DK single target damage is decent, but their cleave damage is nuts which is why they underperform on the dummy parse and are stomping everything in actual content.
Sorcs on the other hand excel at single target and have the worst cleave in the game, which is why they dominate the skelly parse meta and are almost unseen on the leader boards.
DPS rankings for vRG HM
DPS rankings for Oaxiltso HM, cleave heavy fight
Ok, DK damage is really high right now, fair enough! Nerf the damage a little! Why do they gotta gut sustain like that? No one finds fun in constant struggle with resources and running out. That was the main point of my post, that no one minds a reasonable damage nerf if it's necessary, but such a heavy sustain nerf is actually disruptive and unfun to many DKs' playstyle.
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »the funny thing is that pvp and pve are already balanced differently so why don't zos just bite the bullet and double down on applying different attributes for skills or gear in pvp zones
seriously its like we all forget battle spirit exists
That's what I've been thinking. You get different buffs and debuffs as soon as you go into Cyrodiil. Why can't the same thing apply to some abilities and passives? I guess that would be too much work for them, just nerfing something into the ground without any regards to how it will affect pvE is much easier.
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
Only IF you build around that passive and Charged trait, not for most players. For example my off-hand dagger is charged, and looking at my parse video, the times when I switch between bars I reapply burning/poison every 4/5 secs, and when I'm on my front bar I apply them about every 2 seconds on average. So for most players, it was never THAT strong to begin with. They should've nerfed Charged imo, not Combustion, or at least make the nerf more reasonable, like 1 or 2 seconds cooldown, not a whopping 3 seconds, that's just simply too much.
What do You mean by "only IF"? It's a part of meta right now on every parse DD in PvE to run with dual wield and to have one weapon with charged trait. You dont build around that passive this way You are just simply having charged trait like everyone else and as a DK You benefit from it more than others. Fact that for many people "it was never THAT strong" really doesn't matter because developer is making balance decision based on what seems to be overperforming not based on what most of casual players is running with. I agree though that they could reconsider execution of this nerf since overbuffed charged trait played big part in combustion overperforming.
I just wanna say something about this "It's a part of meta right now on every parse DD in PvE to run with dual wield and to have one weapon with charged trait." as this is part of the problem too. DK always had to "invest" into sustain by using charged weapon. When charged was weaker it was okay as they were "losing" something for that. Now charged is meta on every class making its no longer an investment for DK to run it. This should be looked at too before nerfing this passive into the ground as without charged its rly weak(for comparison, without charged u wont get even half of the numbers that ppl get). So if in future charged would be nerfed... well i guess everyone can imagine what it would mean for DKs.
Thecompton73 wrote: »JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.
Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.
wolfie1.0. wrote: »
yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.
wolfie1.0. wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.
Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.
To be fair to the example you gave regarding PVE. ZOS plans and programs those encounters they design them. They have options available to punish players for overburning a boss during an encounter that do not involve nerfing player builds. Everything from boss heals, mini bosses, one shot kills, enraged, and a slew of other mechanics. It's a bit hard to blame the players when ZOS's solution to difficultly is simply to add more health and not more complex mechanics.
PVP on the other hand is player driven, players create the encounters. Granted zos designs those too but the player has to go up against someone that could be running an unknown build. No two pvp encounters are exactly the same.
Bit of a difference. And yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.
Thecompton73 wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.
Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.
To be fair to the example you gave regarding PVE. ZOS plans and programs those encounters they design them. They have options available to punish players for overburning a boss during an encounter that do not involve nerfing player builds. Everything from boss heals, mini bosses, one shot kills, enraged, and a slew of other mechanics. It's a bit hard to blame the players when ZOS's solution to difficultly is simply to add more health and not more complex mechanics.
PVP on the other hand is player driven, players create the encounters. Granted zos designs those too but the player has to go up against someone that could be running an unknown build. No two pvp encounters are exactly the same.
Bit of a difference. And yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.
ZOS doesn't usually just arbitrarily decide (cough cough Arctic Blast) to nerf something though. Nerfs come about as a result of the Devs deciding something is over performing. The question is what factors are leading them to that decision? In the mind of PvE players the answer is always complaints from PvP players in the forums. I see this in every thread discussing any nerf that happens. And most of the time they are just flat out wrong in doing so because, as PvE players love to point out, the vast majority of players in game are doing PvE activities and as such that aspect of the game receives much more scrutiny from the Devs. Whenever there is something that works too well in PvE encounters (especially high end content) the Devs WILL take notice and do something to bring it back in line.
You're certainly correct in pointing out they could go about doing so in ways that are less disruptive to the builds players are using. I still lament the loss of my high health recovery mist form tank which was equally fun and effective to play with in PvP or in a Vet DLC dungeon.
Thecompton73 wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.
Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.
To be fair to the example you gave regarding PVE. ZOS plans and programs those encounters they design them. They have options available to punish players for overburning a boss during an encounter that do not involve nerfing player builds. Everything from boss heals, mini bosses, one shot kills, enraged, and a slew of other mechanics. It's a bit hard to blame the players when ZOS's solution to difficultly is simply to add more health and not more complex mechanics.
PVP on the other hand is player driven, players create the encounters. Granted zos designs those too but the player has to go up against someone that could be running an unknown build. No two pvp encounters are exactly the same.
Bit of a difference. And yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.
ZOS doesn't usually just arbitrarily decide (cough cough Arctic Blast) to nerf something though. Nerfs come about as a result of the Devs deciding something is over performing. The question is what factors are leading them to that decision? In the mind of PvE players the answer is always complaints from PvP players in the forums. I see this in every thread discussing any nerf that happens. And most of the time they are just flat out wrong in doing so because, as PvE players love to point out, the vast majority of players in game are doing PvE activities and as such that aspect of the game receives much more scrutiny from the Devs. Whenever there is something that works too well in PvE encounters (especially high end content) the Devs WILL take notice and do something to bring it back in line.
You're certainly correct in pointing out they could go about doing so in ways that are less disruptive to the builds players are using. I still lament the loss of my high health recovery mist form tank which was equally fun and effective to play with in PvP or in a Vet DLC dungeon.
Thecompton73 wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.
Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.
To be fair to the example you gave regarding PVE. ZOS plans and programs those encounters they design them. They have options available to punish players for overburning a boss during an encounter that do not involve nerfing player builds. Everything from boss heals, mini bosses, one shot kills, enraged, and a slew of other mechanics. It's a bit hard to blame the players when ZOS's solution to difficultly is simply to add more health and not more complex mechanics.
PVP on the other hand is player driven, players create the encounters. Granted zos designs those too but the player has to go up against someone that could be running an unknown build. No two pvp encounters are exactly the same.
Bit of a difference. And yes both communities blame each for nerfs... but really it's ZOS that does it.
ZOS doesn't usually just arbitrarily decide (cough cough Arctic Blast) to nerf something though. Nerfs come about as a result of the Devs deciding something is over performing. The question is what factors are leading them to that decision? In the mind of PvE players the answer is always complaints from PvP players in the forums. I see this in every thread discussing any nerf that happens. And most of the time they are just flat out wrong in doing so because, as PvE players love to point out, the vast majority of players in game are doing PvE activities and as such that aspect of the game receives much more scrutiny from the Devs. Whenever there is something that works too well in PvE encounters (especially high end content) the Devs WILL take notice and do something to bring it back in line.
You're certainly correct in pointing out they could go about doing so in ways that are less disruptive to the builds players are using. I still lament the loss of my high health recovery mist form tank which was equally fun and effective to play with in PvP or in a Vet DLC dungeon.
There is nothing that anyone can say that will validate a 5s Build up for a Stun. Sorry. It's trash. Might as well use Freeze Time, it's faster.
Thecompton73 wrote: »
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.
Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.
Thecompton73 wrote: »
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.
The best part is their Comment:Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.
So They think it's fine that you can just back up, completely avoid the stun and waste one of Warden's ONLY Stuns, while Templar, Sorc, and DK just have nice Instant Cast On-Demand Stuns, but man that Dang Warden trying to have a Mediocre Stun AND do Damage?
Rant over. Point is, Stop making Warden Jump Through Hoops to be Mediocre at Best.
Thank You for attending my Ted Talk
Thecompton73 wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.
The best part is their Comment:Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.
So They think it's fine that you can just back up, completely avoid the stun and waste one of Warden's ONLY Stuns, while Templar, Sorc, and DK just have nice Instant Cast On-Demand Stuns, but man that Dang Warden trying to have a Mediocre Stun AND do Damage?
Rant over. Point is, Stop making Warden Jump Through Hoops to be Mediocre at Best.
Thank You for attending my Ted Talk
While I still believe the change to Arctic Wind is uncalled for I gotta point out you're misreading the part about "backing off". They actually increased the length of time the stacks stay on the opponent so if they dip out for a second then come back in range they don't reset the stacks back to zero. Doesn't mean it's a good change but give them credit for seeing that aspect the way you do.
Thecompton73 wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
exactly my point, most changes do have a reason but sometimes they just make a change to something that has no reasonable explanation.
The best part is their Comment:Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play. By increasing the stack count required, there should be less of a guarantee with this combination and require more reactive play from the caster, while the increased duration of tracking helps also reduce the ease of counter play by backing off for 1 second from the Warden to completely avoid the stun.
So They think it's fine that you can just back up, completely avoid the stun and waste one of Warden's ONLY Stuns, while Templar, Sorc, and DK just have nice Instant Cast On-Demand Stuns, but man that Dang Warden trying to have a Mediocre Stun AND do Damage?
Rant over. Point is, Stop making Warden Jump Through Hoops to be Mediocre at Best.
Thank You for attending my Ted Talk
While I still believe the change to Arctic Wind is uncalled for I gotta point out you're misreading the part about "backing off". They actually increased the length of time the stacks stay on the opponent so if they dip out for a second then come back in range they don't reset the stacks back to zero. Doesn't mean it's a good change but give them credit for seeing that aspect the way you do.
That's a good point, the only issue Arctic Blast is still only a 5 Second Skill, if they step out, you need to recast. There is no reason in running a skill that you need to burn 8k resources for a Stun. If they made it a 5 Second Stun with a 10s Duration on AB, that would be a different story. There's just better Stuns, Better AoEs and Better Heals.