DKs changes in 8.0.3

The3sFinest · May 2022

They really going to leave these changes in there? Nothing in 8.0.4...I really hope Zos reconsiders adjusting this before it goes live.

renne · May 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Then wouldn't there be more variety of classes? Even if the actual DPS is inflated because class buffs, 18 out 20 top dps are DKs. Which usually means they are overtuned, in my opinion.

And yet they let necros sit on top of PvE content for patches and patches and patches, and DK does well one patch and has to be nerfed into the last century.

I guess people couldn't buy a class that's a part of the base game.

Mr_Stach · May 2022

I mean I main Warden. Still waiting for that Frost Warden Patch where all our dreams come true

Urzigurumash · May 2022

Merforum wrote: »

I love my DKs but these recent buffs gave infinite easy sustain. Don't know it the nerfs are too much or not enough. But something DKs aren't going to like is ZOS FORGOT something.

Helping Hands passive gives a MASSIVE 990 stamina ANY time you use an earthen heart mag skill. Which was FINE when ALL skills cost A LOT of Mag. But then they changed Eruption to cost almost nothing and you got a bunch of people who can get 990 stam per second infinitely by using Eruption. This was obviously an oversight and it is being abused in PVP, I didn't realized why I saw people throwing Eruption all over the place then I said OH WOW.

It has about the same Mag per Stam ratio as the instant restoration part of Dark Deal - except Ash Cloud only restores a little more than 1/3 as much Stam as this part of Dark Deal and has no heal. I.e., in order to get the same instant Stam return out of Ash Cloud that you do Dark Deal it costs 3x the GCDs. Yes Dark Deal has a cast time but it also the Stam over Time return.

From that perspective I don't think the numbers on using Ash Cloud for this purpose are that imbalanced.

But, regardless of whether the skill needs adjustment, this skill should be good, it's a really cool, distinct, and thematic animation and in my opinion should be the "foundation" of a DK's "House" (to use the old Templar analogy).

But it never has been this "foundation" for more than maybe 1 out of 10000 DKs. Despite how cool it looks I am sure it is among the least cast skills ever in PvP before its cost revision, and Cinder Storm probably is among the least ever selected morphs of any skills in PvE or PvP.

If you think StamDKs are obnoxiously tanky in PvP you should celebrate the use of Eruption to active Earthern Heart passives over Frag Shield.

An oversight? No I don't think so, it was simply a buff, completely overshadowed by an overtuned Combustion.

Vildebill · May 2022

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Then i show you the prove of both via parse [snip] That context was about the possibility of multiple statuseffect proc at the same time and the possibility of combustion procs every 0,5s and nothing else. Not about raidparses and what not. [snip]

You have shown a „parse“ of less than 10 seconds. Do a serious parse over a fight and show me your proc rate. I never argued about the possibility of multiple status effect procs. In PvE you care for consistent procs over time. Your statement of 4k regen through Combustion in PvE is not true and i have no idea why you are defending it so badly. And if you want proof: there are so many parses to look at! Just look at them.

Vildebill wrote: »

Just did a quick parse on the 3mil dummy on live with my regular DK rotation, and combustion procs about 1 time every second. This is double charged daggers. So even if you probably could build for more procs that 0,5 second in PvE is a number most people won't have. 1 or 2 sec cooldown on combustion would be just fine.

I looked at it the wrong way, not all the burning procs seems to have procced combustion. If you look at my regen combustion is for 550, not even close to 4000. So no, it doesn't work like that at all in a regular PvE rotation.

@Bodycounter
You did argue about the possibility in the other DK Thread in the Public Test Server Forum named ''So Where Are The mDK Nerfs?'' from Decimus. [snip]
But i proved you about the topic that Statuseffects and Combustion can proc once all 0.5 Seconds, which you always rejected until I gave you the proof in my first ''10 second parse'', which of course you wanted to make appear implausible, because these proc's could only be RNG.
In the following ''long parse'' of 5 min's that i did for you and @Vildebill that you've asked for several times, for which I put on extra little DMG gear so you can't find any excuses this time, you can see the same procchance of combustion.

@Bodycounter and @Vildebill

Here you can see a parse of 5 mins i did. Sadly this from a german client i switched back from english because didnt expect my parse of 10 seconds would seem implausible because of RNG or luck, by the opinion of @Bodycounter. So i switched it back to german client how i usually play.

On the Left side you have again the times of Combustion proc's in seconds and milliseconds. On the right side you have the the Combustion proc's converted to mana regen. My value is 330 higher than yours. But the Value still makes so sense because you clearly see on the left side, that there is not more than 1.5 seconds time between 2 combustion proc's, in case i can clearly see. If we go after the combustion 1.5 second proctime, the minimum manareg is 1.5k if i did the math's right. But 1,5 Seconds time between procs is the very minority scenario.

Again sorry for the german Client

The german word ''Verbrennung'' means Combustion

And here the parse:

[edited for discussing moderator action]

What kind of rotation do you use here? If I look at that image correctly you seem to have 9603 DPS, that doesn't seem to be a very realistic rotation.

Your combustion regen value is way higher than most people get, and I think your argument that it's possible to proc combustion in PvE more often is missing the point completely. It doesn't work like that in a regular rotation, and the cooldown nerf will just bring back the 550 I got to a way lower number.

Bodycounter · May 2022

Vildebill wrote: »

What kind of rotation do you use here? If I look at that image correctly you seem to have 9603 DPS, that doesn't seem to be a very realistic rotation.

Your combustion regen value is way higher than most people get, and I think your argument that it's possible to proc combustion in PvE more often is missing the point completely. It doesn't work like that in a regular rotation, and the cooldown nerf will just bring back the 550 I got to a way lower number.

So i just did the work and copied two parses from a known Youtuber with two different builds. They have some stamina abilities included but this will not change with the upcoming patch. Even 500 magicka per second seems to be a higher end value for Combustion's regeneration. Im still not saying that the Dragonknight is balanced in its current form, im just saying that the nerf to Combustion was heavy-handed for PvE.

RamiroCruzo · May 2022

This thread is kinda funny how everyone is trying to justify a PvP related nerf by parsing on a dummy. I'd love to see anyone produce a single proper PvP fight where they had more combustion procs than combat duration. Even in PvE people spamming spammable on the front bar claiming it procs, when you spend about 40% or more time back bar.

mDKs usually give up on ~400 spell/weapon damage or 3k pen when running charged, those values are 5 piece bonus worth values and then people complain they shouldn't be able to sustain even with the tradeoff.

PvE is an entirely different can of worms, FoO buff boosted mDK to its current position mainly, every boss has additional mobs, and one more projectile just improves DPS by a lot. Even then if you talk about investment and return, DK in PvE gotta chug Heroism pots to do their high-end DPS, that's 4k/45 seconds on PC EU. Another place where DK needs investment, not just yolo OP class doing OP OP stuff half AFK.

People who are specifically commenting for damage output in BGs are just looking for scapegoats, current meta is tanky af, the longer the fight goes, the more the DoT value increases and popular mDK build being resto back bar helps group a lot with cross heals. 1-2 mDK in a team means the entire team gets survivability, then some crappy acid spray spamming NB will say DK ruin BGs, no they don't, you just don't realise it's a team play. For example with Marrochir from PC - EU was to popularize his Bowsorc, you can see nerf Bowsorc threads all over the forum as anyone playing sorc would be doing that and you'd be complaining, "2 Sorcs in an opponent team, this BG will suck".

In any case, if you're here complaining or demanding nerfs, you'll be complaining post nerfs too.

silver1surfer69 · May 2022

Pls consider to change combustion to 2.5 sec cooldown. So you theoretically have the chance to proc it every 3rd attack. With 3 sec and lag that is always there it will very likely be only every 4th attack.

Dracane · May 2022

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

mDKs usually give up on ~400 spell/weapon damage or 3k pen when running charged, those values are 5 piece bonus worth values and then people complain they shouldn't be able to sustain even with the tradeoff.

The raw damage charged offers from status procs gets heavily underestimated. Elemental damage enchants have a 100% chance to proc effects with charged and direct attacks a nearly 50% chance. It's a serious damage option for everyone just based on the direct damage status effects deliver, leaving out the secondary effects those cause. It just so happens, that Dragonknight has extra synergy with it and get more out of it than all other classes.

KoIIegoIas · May 2022

Seems mag dk isnt dead in PvE. Overall pretty decent balanced dps numbers( except stamcro ). Atleast mag dk isnt the unchallenged DPS King anymore, but still viable. [snip]

Oh nono Zos fixed that class in pvp and PvEers have to live with DK beeing now balanced overall. To be honest. Most PvEers dont care about PvP balance anyway, aslong you have a class wich is easy [snip], because there is zero attention needed to sustain with an ultra easy rotation. Who isnt happy with those dps numbers in comparison to the other classes, nobody can help those people. Or try atleast to make it work like the people you copy paste the setups from.

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

Vildebill · May 2022

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Seems mag dk isnt dead in PvE. Overall pretty decent balanced dps numbers( except stamcro ). Atleast mag dk isnt the unchallenged DPS King anymore, but still viable. [snip]

Oh nono Zos fixed that class in pvp and PvEers have to live with DK beeing now balanced overall. To be honest. Most PvEers dont care about PvP balance anyway, aslong you have a class wich is easy [snip], because there is zero attention needed to sustain with an ultra easy rotation. Who isnt happy with those dps numbers in comparison to the other classes, nobody can help those people. Or try atleast to make it work like the people you copy paste the setups from.

Yeah right we all forgot that all players do trials with all the available buffs there all the time. How could we possibly been annoyed that the sustain got gutted for all other PvE content?

[edited to remove quote]

Arthtur · May 2022

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Seems mag dk isnt dead in PvE. Overall pretty decent balanced dps numbers( except stamcro ). Atleast mag dk isnt the unchallenged DPS King anymore, but still viable. [snip]

Oh nono Zos fixed that class in pvp and PvEers have to live with DK beeing now balanced overall. To be honest. Most PvEers dont care about PvP balance anyway, aslong you have a class wich is easy [snip], because there is zero attention needed to sustain with an ultra easy rotation. Who isnt happy with those dps numbers in comparison to the other classes, nobody can help those people. Or try atleast to make it work like the people you copy paste the setups from.

Sorry but u are wrong here.
There is a serious lack of parses for HI. Barerly anyone tried to do anything. Like i couldnt even find a templar or NB parse....
Also those DK parses... I dont know about parses u showed but... On those that i saw when ppl were testing changes they were using heroism potions. Those costs thousands.... And StamDK... They were using stone Giant again....

Also if u want to just look at parse numbers...
StamSorc - 138k
StamDen - 134k
MagCro - still should be at least 125k (130k on live)
StamCro - i saw one 126k

Like those nerfs made it so DK is again the worst. Instead of making small changes to balance it they throwed DKs back into Dark Room where they sit with NB. Like this patch was all about buffing weaker classes. So They should buff classes and make some QoL changes instead of making them even more behind. Like if top class is doing 25k more than the worsts then sorry but this cant be called balanced.

DK, NB and Templar are now again underperforming in PvE compared to other classes as They cant even get 120k while StamSorc and StamDen are overperforming as they break 130k or even almost 140k even after nerfs. Rest of the classes should be 120 - 130k while DK, NB and Templar are under 120k... Or even under 115k...

So sorry but all those nerfs only wasted everyones time. There was a reason why DKs were buffed and those nerfs just reverted those buffs. But i dont have any strength to explain.

[edited to remove quote]

Veeka · May 2022

how about whip 7k without being vampire myself & with 30k armor in nocp/noproc campaign ?

there's a little problem with this class about balance

KoIIegoIas · May 2022

[snip]

Arthtur wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Seems mag dk isnt dead in PvE. Overall pretty decent balanced dps numbers( except stamcro ). Atleast mag dk isnt the unchallenged DPS King anymore, but still viable. [snip]

Oh nono Zos fixed that class in pvp and PvEers have to live with DK beeing now balanced overall. To be honest. Most PvEers dont care about PvP balance anyway, aslong you have a class wich is easy [snip], because there is zero attention needed to sustain with an ultra easy rotation. Who isnt happy with those dps numbers in comparison to the other classes, nobody can help those people. Or try atleast to make it work like the people you copy paste the setups from.

Sorry but u are wrong here.
There is a serious lack of parses for HI. Barerly anyone tried to do anything. Like i couldnt even find a templar or NB parse....
Also those DK parses... I dont know about parses u showed but... On those that i saw when ppl were testing changes they were using heroism potions. Those costs thousands.... And StamDK... They were using stone Giant again....

Also if u want to just look at parse numbers...
StamSorc - 138k
StamDen - 134k
MagCro - still should be at least 125k (130k on live)
StamCro - i saw one 126k

Like those nerfs made it so DK is again the worst. Instead of making small changes to balance it they throwed DKs back into Dark Room where they sit with NB. Like this patch was all about buffing weaker classes. So They should buff classes and make some QoL changes instead of making them even more behind. Like if top class is doing 25k more than the worsts then sorry but this cant be called balanced.

DK, NB and Templar are now again underperforming in PvE compared to other classes as They cant even get 120k while StamSorc and StamDen are overperforming as they break 130k or even almost 140k even after nerfs. Rest of the classes should be 120 - 130k while DK, NB and Templar are under 120k... Or even under 115k...

So sorry but all those nerfs only wasted everyones time. There was a reason why DKs were buffed and those nerfs just reverted those buffs. But i dont have any strength to explain.

[edited to remove quote]

Did Luca Cash mention that he used heroic pots in his DK parse? If not then this is irrelevant.

Idk about other missing classes, but it looks pretty good so far, what i saw there. I didnt even watch the videos, except the DK one, because i dont care. But those numbers look balanced.

Idk about parse numbers from live or anything from live. And on his video magcro did 116k and not 125k. And same maybe goes for the other missing classes. I dont know but i hope. Prolly not for sorc because crystal weapon buff, but idk the sorc uses it in pve or not. I didnt see any more vids.
Im just exited for the new patch and how it turns out for Dk, because that oceon of tears is disgusting.

I just talking from the pvp perspective. Same with the parses i did was to prove some procchances in terms of pvp, Since you guys confused that already a few times. And wich vildebill called unrealistic for whatever reason, just because i didnt even craft gear with setbonis, wich resulted is bad dmg. But funny how i sustained 5 mins parse without going below 50% magicka once kek.

That topic was done for me actually because it makes no sense for me to write while zos editing and deleteling whole posts of mine how they want. Just was amused that it is probably not that bad, after i saw luca cash parses.

Real DK mains will continue pvp as DK and will enjoy it. Because now that class is fixed and we dont have to endure 50% DK cyrodiil/Bg's anymore. Meta andys will change class for sure. And when everyone stays on DK im fine because now they cant add infinite pressure anymore, because the needs for a heavy attack here and there or some sustain improvements.

But now i see DK isnt doing that bad in pve how everyone thought. Lets wait for more parses instead of compare it to live. Im sure some bigbbrains will find a way for the craving copy pasties.

Yes zos said they wanna do minor buffs and im looking forward to that, because i play only NB. But that doesnt mean automatic DK gets left behind. They fixed combustion now, but maybe they buff some other things wich dont have such big impact. Think what you want, but thats my opinion and it does change.

Im out of this.again

[edited for discussing moderator action]