MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »They just needa balance PVE and PVP separately. Said it before, I'll say it again. By balancing for PVP, it hurts PVE by making things weaker, whether that be in sustain or in damage. By buffing with PVE in mind, it hurts PVP because now everyone is using the buffed skill a la Crystal Weapons (that one is overtuned, even in PVE tbh).
DK needed a nerf for PVP, and was overperforming slightly in PVE. A hit to sustain is what was needed, and though I'm not an expert on the implications here because 1. I'm a PVE player, and 2. I hate playing templar so I don't really understand how hard of a nerf it is, I can tell you I would be upset if they nerfed any of my main classes really hard (temp, sorc, ward) because they'e unbalanced in PVP. They did it before when I mained a Nightblade, and have nerfed it pretty consistently patch after patch since 4 years ago, so I don't even touch my old Nightblade.
I don't really have anything constructive to say here. DK isn't something I'm familiar enough with to give an opinion one way or the other in terms of how well it's performing, I just know that it did well in PVE and PVP players were begging for it to be nerfed. I am someone that plays sorc, and can say Crystal Weapons buff is ridiculous, but I can also say as a sorc that I hate playing melee with Crystal Weapons or the Psijic alternative and VERY much prefer the Stam change to frags.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
the funny thing is that pvp and pve are already balanced differently so why don't zos just bite the bullet and double down on applying different attributes for skills or gear in pvp zones
seriously its like we all forget battle spirit exists
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
shadyjane62 wrote: »The only fights I have ever given up on were against today's DK.
Good that they are being nerfed.
When 5 or 6 players cannot touch a DK, when they are working together, something is wrong.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
DK sustain come not only from that one passive. It also comes from when you use your ultimate or did you forget that? I know plenty of DK that have zero sustain issues in PVP because there ultimate comes up perfectly when they need to use it to regain resources. Instead of increasing the time I would have reduced the resource gained by a small percentage.
I took my DK tank through content which was on the back burner and I had zero and I mean zero issues with my stamina or magika through a trial. Both were near max the full trial because of the current regains for resources DK have. My other classes have some issues with sustain even with 3K recovery. So yeah DK is a bit over the top for sustain ATM and needed adjustments.
As for the healing adjustment, most other classes get a portion of the damage back as a heal not the full damage amount. This adjustment was to reduce the healing output and make the ability more inline with other damaging abilities that heal.
As for the damage it is a bit over the top ATM. The hardest hitting ability I see in PVP is Molten Whip; I get hit on average for over 12K by DK using molten whip while BLOCKING and my PVP character is far from squishy. I have over 33K resistance with another 15%+ damage mitigation all prior to blocking. Most NB run from me after they hit me 3+ times because I'm not an easy target to kill. Just yesterday I had a full ball group on me and it took a good 3 minutes to kill me. None were a DK but if one was it would have been a quicker kill for the group.
I don't want to see DK nerfed to the ground so everyone stops using them. I think a few MINOR adjustments were needed. Just like templar Living Dark needed to be FIXED as it was a bit to strong especially against high health or high spell/weapon damage individuals.
As someone who plays only PVP currently I would have been fine if the devs simply adjusted the healing from 100% down to 75%, reduced the damage of molten whip by 10-15% and adjusted the resource regen from 500 down to 400 or so. Adjustments still but nothing to kill the class.
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
Only IF you build around that passive and Charged trait, not for most players. For example my off-hand dagger is charged, and looking at my parse video, the times when I switch between bars I reapply burning/poison every 4/5 secs, and when I'm on my front bar I apply them about every 2 seconds on average. So for most players, it was never THAT strong to begin with. They should've nerfed Charged imo, not Combustion, or at least make the nerf more reasonable, like 1 or 2 seconds cooldown, not a whopping 3 seconds, that's just simply too much.
the funny thing is that pvp and pve are already balanced differently so why don't zos just bite the bullet and double down on applying different attributes for skills or gear in pvp zones
seriously its like we all forget battle spirit exists
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
Only IF you build around that passive and Charged trait, not for most players. For example my off-hand dagger is charged, and looking at my parse video, the times when I switch between bars I reapply burning/poison every 4/5 secs, and when I'm on my front bar I apply them about every 2 seconds on average. So for most players, it was never THAT strong to begin with. They should've nerfed Charged imo, not Combustion, or at least make the nerf more reasonable, like 1 or 2 seconds cooldown, not a whopping 3 seconds, that's just simply too much.
What do You mean by "only IF"? It's a part of meta right now on every parse DD in PvE to run with dual wield and to have one weapon with charged trait. You dont build around that passive this way You are just simply having charged trait like everyone else and as a DK You benefit from it more than others. Fact that for many people "it was never THAT strong" really doesn't matter because developer is making balance decision based on what seems to be overperforming not based on what most of casual players is running with. I agree though that they could reconsider execution of this nerf since overbuffed charged trait played big part in combustion overperforming.
the funny thing is that pvp and pve are already balanced differently so why don't zos just bite the bullet and double down on applying different attributes for skills or gear in pvp zones
seriously its like we all forget battle spirit exists
shadyjane62 wrote: »The only fights I have ever given up on were against today's DK.
Good that they are being nerfed.
When 5 or 6 players cannot touch a DK, when they are working together, something is wrong.
Its not DK's fault. That's fault of the meta in PvP. Almost every class is building to be tanky and DK is the best in this meta because was designed as the tank. If healing would stop being so strong in PvP DK wouldnt be so OP anymore. But ppl said a lot of times already that Cross healing and hybrisation give too much healing to everyone...
Thecompton73 wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »The only fights I have ever given up on were against today's DK.
Good that they are being nerfed.
When 5 or 6 players cannot touch a DK, when they are working together, something is wrong.
Its not DK's fault. That's fault of the meta in PvP. Almost every class is building to be tanky and DK is the best in this meta because was designed as the tank. If healing would stop being so strong in PvP DK wouldnt be so OP anymore. But ppl said a lot of times already that Cross healing and hybrisation give too much healing to everyone...
What you're ignoring is that while all classes are building tankier only DK and Templar are so tanky that they can stand their ground to fight 4 people yet still build to have the damage to decimate other players in 1-2 GCDs by simply using class abilities. Those two classes don't need to crutch on proc sets such as Caluurion's like a NB or Dark Conversion like a Necro does.
And the difference between DK and Templar this patch has simply been that an outnumbered Templar getting constantly pressured eventually runs out of resources while a Dk basically has infinite sustain. Both are extremely OP for the length a typical PvP fight lasts; and Templars are losing the insanely high heals from living dark to bring them back in line.
Now if a DK wants to build to be tanky and have good sustain so it takes a half hour for 5-6 players to kill them that's all good. But when they can get do that simply from class passives and abilities while being able to wear nothing but stat buffing damage sets so they can also consistently pump out enough damage to kill other tanky players instantly that's an issue. And the reason 75% of the players in Cyro are on DK's right now.
And to the OP's assertion that the nerfs are a response solely to PvP concerns: What do you think influenced the Devs more, anecdotal stories of DK's told by PvP players in the forums or hard evidence in the form of in-game PvE leaderboards, on which DK's are placing in 95 out of the top 100 spots week in and week out?