Should a mythic be added for people that don't like light attack weaving?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

No

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

I mentioned some of the 'compound effects' in other post.
"BTW contrary to the vocal minority LA 'weave' ADDS a ton more than just 10-15% DPS, that is JUST the LA part of the equation. It doesn't count that a perfect weave gives 10 LA AND 10 skills in 10 secs, without it you only get 5la+5skill or 1la+9skill, which is WAY LESS potential damage. Also every super high parse is using LA based proc sets like rele, which explodes DPS with more LAs. And let's remember the timings on the AOEs/buffs that can be optimized when you can get close to 10la+10 skill per 10 sec, where with a slower rotation you will have much lower uptime on AOEs or less spammables in between (the difference is staggering). Even the people who say LA AC doesn't add much to damage will tell others who they are trying to teach the this too that if they go from 5la + 10 skills (because they miss 5 weaves) that if they can improve on that they can go from 90K to 120K HELLO just with a few more weaves you get massive bump. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is a broken mechanic, that significantly contribute to the power creep."

Alyxseus · May 2022

No

Weaving is one of the core mechanics of this game and I think it also makes the combat engaging and competitive.

Amottica · May 2022

No

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with trying to 'gatekeep' changes you disagree with! But don't pretend that's not the reason you're sharing your opinion in the first place!

Really stretching the definition of "gatekeeping" here. The OP asked for an opinion. I gave him one. That's all.

d.schaerb16_ESO2 wrote: »

then let light attacks be, embrace the status quo and get better in a basic game mechanic
The thing is, eso was always a playerskill based fight system. unlike WoW with autolightattacks and scripts/macros for rotations. Yes, in ESO someone with BiS Gear can be bad. And thats what i like, not the gearscore that makes you do more damage. You actually have to learn, train and get better.
The real skills gap is cpm, nobody with 50 cpm can do as much damage as someone with 120. And nothing can fix this expect the player. If you can press fast and precise enough buttons, lightattacks are no problem. If you smash keys in random speed, dont expect to do top dps

So why is LA weaving the ONLY rotational skill to learn then? Why is that the ONLY pattern that exists? There are theoretically tons of ways the game could promote different playstyles and potentially even make combat faster, so why stick everyone with something that a lot of people dislike?
As far as APMs, there's more to skill than speed.
(Also LA weaving is not a basic mechanic. It's a bug that the dev team purposely kept, and even among the community it's considered more of an advanced mechanic, as opposed to the actual basics of attacks, skills, dodging, etc.).

Choucroute wrote: »

Alternative question: why do you all even care about LA weaving?

Super simple answer. It's boring. It doesn't matter what class I pick or what weapon I use, as long as I know how to weave I can swap to literally any setup and be equally effective. I'd much rather have options, even if one of them will always be LA weaving.

Um its not. And that is the misconception that so many people have about weaving and how it impacts damage. There are lots of skill sets to a high end DPS parse, LA weaving is one of them, but it is neither the most difficult nor the most important. In order of difficulty, I would say it goes something like this:

1. Far and away the hardest part of a high end DPS parse is maintaining your Pace as close to the one second global cooldown as possible, without going over. I look at a LOT of parses trying to help people. They copy a build, use a static rotation and perform it very well, only miss a handful of LAs, and only pull 70k when the YouTube guy is pulling 120k and wonder why. Well they are on a pace of 0.6-0.7 skills per second, just about every time.

2. Managing a rotation. This is also rather difficult. For the most part, Rotations can be static (repetitive), Dynamic (cast whatever is next off cooldown) or semi static (some parts are repetitive, others aren't). Usually, dynamic rotation are tougher, but not always. For example, I think my dynamic sorc rotation actually plays easier than my static necro rotation, but thats because my static necro rotation is 30 seconds long and takes 14 bar swaps per 30 seconds. Which brings me to the next part.

3. Swap cancelling. This is really they only part of a high end parse that involves animation canceling. This goes hand and hand with number 1, as this is one of the biggest culprits for slow pace. This one takes a lot of practice, and personally, I think it is one of the toughest things about either a dynamic rotation or a static rotation like necro with a lot of swaps. Different skills need to be swap cancelled at slightly different paces, and some skills cant be swap cancelled off of (sweeps, hard cast frags, etc). Being able to manage that on the fly takes a lot of skill.

If you do 1-3 well, you can break 100k in the current meta, and notice, LA weaving hasnt been mentioned yet.

4. LA weaving. This adds roughly 10-13% damage on the extreme end of things. For most people, its less. Significant, but not the difference between someone parsing 50k vs. 120k. It is difficult in the sense that it doubles your APMs, but the half it adds are very predictable. The other half (from 1-3) are not always predictable, and they are where the real skill comes into play. Absolutely it takes practice, but its not nearly as big a piece of the puzzle as most people think.

-Call it a bug if you want, but I think more accurately, it was an unintended consequence of giving LAs and Skills separate cooldowns. People figured this out very early, realized it was pretty freaking cool, and ZOS has doubled down on it time and again. It aint going anywhere, nor should it. I love that as a master swordsman i can sprinkle in light attacks with my blade between my more powerful abilities. Seems to fit very well from a lore standpoint, and makes combat fast paced and fun.

5. Managing things like ultimates, potions, etc. This isnt terribly hard, but people still get it wrong. Keeping your potions up (outside the GCD) every 45 seconds, and casting your ulitmate is a skill. Some Ults like Incap Strike, is very difficult to use effectively. It needs to be cast frequently, and you also want to time so you are casting spam skills to follow. Ults like DK standard or meteor are much easier to deal with.

6. Openings and Execute. These come in last place for me. Usually both break number 2 to some degree. They arent the difference between 60-120k, but they can certainly be the difference between 110-120k. Knowing how to open, and what skills to drop at what percent health is certainly a skill, and once that can vary greatly from class to class.

Point is, most people copy a build, dont get the results of the guys on youtube, and blame weaving. When in reality, it's a very small piece of the pie.

This is so true.

In pretty much every game I’ve played I’ve seen people on the same gear doing the same thing but the results are very different. The difference pretty much comes down to the points made above.

The only part that could be outside of the players control is executing the next attack as the GCD is ended since lag can slow down reaction time.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

No

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

I mentioned some of the 'compound effects' in other post.
"BTW contrary to the vocal minority LA 'weave' ADDS a ton more than just 10-15% DPS, that is JUST the LA part of the equation. It doesn't count that a perfect weave gives 10 LA AND 10 skills in 10 secs, without it you only get 5la+5skill or 1la+9skill, which is WAY LESS potential damage. Also every super high parse is using LA based proc sets like rele, which explodes DPS with more LAs. And let's remember the timings on the AOEs/buffs that can be optimized when you can get close to 10la+10 skill per 10 sec, where with a slower rotation you will have much lower uptime on AOEs or less spammables in between (the difference is staggering). Even the people who say LA AC doesn't add much to damage will tell others who they are trying to teach the this too that if they go from 5la + 10 skills (because they miss 5 weaves) that if they can improve on that they can go from 90K to 120K HELLO just with a few more weaves you get massive bump. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is a broken mechanic, that significantly contribute to the power creep."

This is really getting off topic, but I think you are getting into the weeds, overstating the issue, and drawing false comparisons. In your examples of 10+10, 5+5 or 9+1, you are assuming LAs also have a one second cooldown, which they dont. You can fire more than 10 LAs in 10 seconds if that's what you chose to do. I think the cooldown is like 700 miliseconds, so that means you can fire 14 LAs in a 10 second window, or 8 skills and 3 LAs (in 10.1 seconds, and nobody is truly on a 1 second pace). But again, that is what weaving does. Skills are way more powerful than LAs. So if you arent going to weave, you would always chose 10 skills in 10 seconds. The 10 LAs you are missing, is roughly 10-11% of damage.

In terms of gear:
Plenty of gear sets dont require a LA weave to function, and there is more gear now than ever that is within a percent or two of meta. A combo like AY and Bahsei are within a percent or two of something like Kinra/Relequen. There is a long list of sets that are very strong that simply dont ever require you to LA weave, AY, Bahsei, Pillar, Tzogvin, Deadly Strike, FalseGod, VO, Most monster sets, Mythics like the Kilt, Thrassian, Death Dealers, etc. Now the fact that some meta gear requires you to LA weave just shows how invested ZOS is in the concept.

LA doesnt bring you from 90k to 120k. Its a nonsense statement. And your example is misleading. You talk about going from 5+10 to presumably 10+10, but you dont mention in how much time. People that are missing half their weaves are probably taking 13-14 seconds at least to cast 10 skills. The difference between 5+10 in 14 seconds to 10+10 in ten seconds might be the difference in 90 and 120k, but that is way more about the pace of your skills. At best the light attacks alone are around 11% damage. If you go from 5+10 to 10+10 in the same time, you are talking about a 5-6% increase. Certainly NOT 90 to 120k.

On top of that, you can reasonably discuss Ulti regen, as that is largely based on LA/Heavy attack damage. If the mythic gave 3 ult per second while in combat, it would cover it. Alternatively, and I have done this on parses for fun, you can just double tap a light attack every 9th skill. You can almost get 2 LAs in a one second global cooldown, but not quite. 2 LAs is not all that different from a spammable, so while its a slight DPS loss, again, maybe a % or 2.

Lastly, there is front bar weapon enchant. Your back bar enchant is kept up by your ground AOEs. Your front bar is kept up by a mixture of weapon skills and LAs. So even if you stop LA completely, you will still get procs on your front bar. Again, maybe a 1-2% damage loss.

Add it all up, and you are at 15, tops, some of which can be compensated for. Your idea of having a mythic auto fire a light attack is basically like how most auto attack MMOs function. ZOS doesnt want that, and neither does a vast majority of the competitive end game community.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt the reason someone cant break 100k in the current meta, which is more than enough DPS for any content in the game.

MudcrabAttack · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

I mentioned some of the 'compound effects' in other post.
"BTW contrary to the vocal minority LA 'weave' ADDS a ton more than just 10-15% DPS, that is JUST the LA part of the equation. It doesn't count that a perfect weave gives 10 LA AND 10 skills in 10 secs, without it you only get 5la+5skill or 1la+9skill, which is WAY LESS potential damage. Also every super high parse is using LA based proc sets like rele, which explodes DPS with more LAs. And let's remember the timings on the AOEs/buffs that can be optimized when you can get close to 10la+10 skill per 10 sec, where with a slower rotation you will have much lower uptime on AOEs or less spammables in between (the difference is staggering). Even the people who say LA AC doesn't add much to damage will tell others who they are trying to teach the this too that if they go from 5la + 10 skills (because they miss 5 weaves) that if they can improve on that they can go from 90K to 120K HELLO just with a few more weaves you get massive bump. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is a broken mechanic, that significantly contribute to the power creep."

This is really getting off topic, but I think you are getting into the weeds, overstating the issue, and drawing false comparisons. In your examples of 10+10, 5+5 or 9+1, you are assuming LAs also have a one second cooldown, which they dont. You can fire more than 10 LAs in 10 seconds if that's what you chose to do. I think the cooldown is like 700 miliseconds, so that means you can fire 14 LAs in a 10 second window, or 8 skills and 3 LAs (in 10.1 seconds, and nobody is truly on a 1 second pace). But again, that is what weaving does. Skills are way more powerful than LAs. So if you arent going to weave, you would always chose 10 skills in 10 seconds. The 10 LAs you are missing, is roughly 10-11% of damage.

In terms of gear:
Plenty of gear sets dont require a LA weave to function, and there is more gear now than ever that is within a percent or two of meta. A combo like AY and Bahsei are within a percent or two of something like Kinra/Relequen. There is a long list of sets that are very strong that simply dont ever require you to LA weave, AY, Bahsei, Pillar, Tzogvin, Deadly Strike, FalseGod, VO, Most monster sets, Mythics like the Kilt, Thrassian, Death Dealers, etc. Now the fact that some meta gear requires you to LA weave just shows how invested ZOS is in the concept.

LA doesnt bring you from 90k to 120k. Its a nonsense statement. And your example is misleading. You talk about going from 5+10 to presumably 10+10, but you dont mention in how much time. People that are missing half their weaves are probably taking 13-14 seconds at least to cast 10 skills. The difference between 5+10 in 14 seconds to 10+10 in ten seconds might be the difference in 90 and 120k, but that is way more about the pace of your skills. At best the light attacks alone are around 11% damage. If you go from 5+10 to 10+10 in the same time, you are talking about a 5-6% increase. Certainly NOT 90 to 120k.

On top of that, you can reasonably discuss Ulti regen, as that is largely based on LA/Heavy attack damage. If the mythic gave 3 ult per second while in combat, it would cover it. Alternatively, and I have done this, you can just double tap a light attack every 9th skill. You can almost get 2 LAs in a one second global cooldown, but not quite. 2 LAs is not all that different from a spammable, so while its a slight DPS loss, again, maybe a % or 2.

Laslty, there is front bar weapon enchant. Your back bar enchant is kept up by your ground AOEs. Your front bar is kept up by a mixture of weapon skills and LAs. So even if you stop LA completely, you will still get procs on your front bar. Again, maybe a 1-2% damage loss.

Add it all up, and you are at 15, tops, some of which can be compensated for. Your idea of having a mythic auto fire a light attack is basically like how most auto attack MMOs function. ZOS doesnt want that, and neither does a vast majority of the competitive end game community.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt the reason someone cant break 100k in the current meta, which is more than enough DPS for any content in the game.

You are proving my point and saying it is worse than I thought if you can squeeze 14LA and 10 skills in 10 seconds, don't know if I believe that but it's a point on my side. BTW all the tests I have seen are RIGGED meaning they are all on a trial dummy with every buff in the game and also with different gear/skills to optimize situation, which in no way represents the ACTUAL EFFECT of LA weave compared to NOT doing it.

A proper test would be using the exact same setup gear/skill/AND rotation on a dummy or world boss without any buffs/synergies or anything (that you don't get from yourself), then do a parse with and without LA weaving. That is the test. If the damage in not closer to douible than 15% in that scenario, I'll admit to a slight exaggeration.

The only mythic that would be legit would be one that AUTOMATICALLY does LA weaving for you. And obviously that LA would have to react as if you did it yourself, meaning proc enchant, ult, etc. The interesting thing would be you'd still have to be pointing at something for the LA to hit is but you wouldn't have to press the trigger. And even with this item you'd still be at a disadvantage because you lose a mythic to get this, so that would be the neg effect.

BTW you'd still also have to push a skill to get the la+skill, so it still requires a rotation.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

I think it was 118k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

Not interested in trial dummy parses that are completely skewed. The TEST is with NO buffs you don't give yourself, no auto synergies you don't give yourself, using EXACT SAME BUILD same skills/gear/rotation. Just one with LA weave and the other without it, that is the test.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

No

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

I mentioned some of the 'compound effects' in other post.
"BTW contrary to the vocal minority LA 'weave' ADDS a ton more than just 10-15% DPS, that is JUST the LA part of the equation. It doesn't count that a perfect weave gives 10 LA AND 10 skills in 10 secs, without it you only get 5la+5skill or 1la+9skill, which is WAY LESS potential damage. Also every super high parse is using LA based proc sets like rele, which explodes DPS with more LAs. And let's remember the timings on the AOEs/buffs that can be optimized when you can get close to 10la+10 skill per 10 sec, where with a slower rotation you will have much lower uptime on AOEs or less spammables in between (the difference is staggering). Even the people who say LA AC doesn't add much to damage will tell others who they are trying to teach the this too that if they go from 5la + 10 skills (because they miss 5 weaves) that if they can improve on that they can go from 90K to 120K HELLO just with a few more weaves you get massive bump. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is a broken mechanic, that significantly contribute to the power creep."

This is really getting off topic, but I think you are getting into the weeds, overstating the issue, and drawing false comparisons. In your examples of 10+10, 5+5 or 9+1, you are assuming LAs also have a one second cooldown, which they dont. You can fire more than 10 LAs in 10 seconds if that's what you chose to do. I think the cooldown is like 700 miliseconds, so that means you can fire 14 LAs in a 10 second window, or 8 skills and 3 LAs (in 10.1 seconds, and nobody is truly on a 1 second pace). But again, that is what weaving does. Skills are way more powerful than LAs. So if you arent going to weave, you would always chose 10 skills in 10 seconds. The 10 LAs you are missing, is roughly 10-11% of damage.

In terms of gear:
Plenty of gear sets dont require a LA weave to function, and there is more gear now than ever that is within a percent or two of meta. A combo like AY and Bahsei are within a percent or two of something like Kinra/Relequen. There is a long list of sets that are very strong that simply dont ever require you to LA weave, AY, Bahsei, Pillar, Tzogvin, Deadly Strike, FalseGod, VO, Most monster sets, Mythics like the Kilt, Thrassian, Death Dealers, etc. Now the fact that some meta gear requires you to LA weave just shows how invested ZOS is in the concept.

LA doesnt bring you from 90k to 120k. Its a nonsense statement. And your example is misleading. You talk about going from 5+10 to presumably 10+10, but you dont mention in how much time. People that are missing half their weaves are probably taking 13-14 seconds at least to cast 10 skills. The difference between 5+10 in 14 seconds to 10+10 in ten seconds might be the difference in 90 and 120k, but that is way more about the pace of your skills. At best the light attacks alone are around 11% damage. If you go from 5+10 to 10+10 in the same time, you are talking about a 5-6% increase. Certainly NOT 90 to 120k.

On top of that, you can reasonably discuss Ulti regen, as that is largely based on LA/Heavy attack damage. If the mythic gave 3 ult per second while in combat, it would cover it. Alternatively, and I have done this, you can just double tap a light attack every 9th skill. You can almost get 2 LAs in a one second global cooldown, but not quite. 2 LAs is not all that different from a spammable, so while its a slight DPS loss, again, maybe a % or 2.

Laslty, there is front bar weapon enchant. Your back bar enchant is kept up by your ground AOEs. Your front bar is kept up by a mixture of weapon skills and LAs. So even if you stop LA completely, you will still get procs on your front bar. Again, maybe a 1-2% damage loss.

Add it all up, and you are at 15, tops, some of which can be compensated for. Your idea of having a mythic auto fire a light attack is basically like how most auto attack MMOs function. ZOS doesnt want that, and neither does a vast majority of the competitive end game community.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt the reason someone cant break 100k in the current meta, which is more than enough DPS for any content in the game.

You are proving my point and saying it is worse than I thought if you can squeeze 14LA and 10 skills in 10 seconds, don't know if I believe that but it's a point on my side. BTW all the tests I have seen are RIGGED meaning they are all on a trial dummy with every buff in the game and also with different gear/skills to optimize situation, which in no way represents the ACTUAL EFFECT of LA weave compared to NOT doing it.

A proper test would be using the exact same setup gear/skill/AND rotation on a dummy or world boss without any buffs/synergies or anything (that you don't get from yourself), then do a parse with and without LA weaving. That is the test. If the damage in not closer to douible than 15% in that scenario, I'll admit to a slight exaggeration.

The only mythic that would be legit would be one that AUTOMATICALLY does LA weaving for you. And obviously that LA would have to react as if you did it yourself, meaning proc enchant, ult, etc. The interesting thing would be you'd still have to be pointing at something for the LA to hit is but you wouldn't have to press the trigger. And even with this item you'd still be at a disadvantage because you lose a mythic to get this, so that would be the neg effect.

BTW you'd still also have to push a skill to get the la+skill, so it still requires a rotation.

Didnt say that. I said because cooldown is 700 miliseconds on LAs, if you chose, you can fire 14 light attacks in 10 seconds (not 14 LAs and 10 skills).

To the second part, since you basically said the same thing in two posts, Ill save the effort and just respond to this one. You are flat out wrong. The best environment for a test like this is a trial dummy as its the most controlled and consistent testing environment we have access to. It is the closest thing we have to a perfect raid scenario, which is where all these numbers really matter anyways. None of these buffs are specific to a light attack or a skill, all your damage is getting buffed. It simply wouldnt matter. Sure you would do less damage on skills without a dummy, but you would also do less LA damage.

@MudcrabAttack 's posts are as objective as you can possibly get, you just dont like the results because it shows that you dont need to weave to be in the 100k club. If you cant break 100k, weaving is NOT to blame.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

No

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

Yeah, that sounds about right. Biggest issue is ultimate I think. Here, going from No weaving and no ultimate, to weaving and ultimate, you gained 16% DPS, about 4% of that is ultimate. So if it could add 10-12% DPS, and give some ulti generation, your sacrifice becomes easy rotation vs more difficult rotation and the use of some other mythic. Honestly, even 10% might be a touch over the top if it also supplemented the ulti gen. End of the day, skill and effort should be rewarded.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I like Light Attack weaving, but a set like this could be nice for other players. I'd make it a stacking buff, that is lost when you light attack (much like Thrassian Stranglers, which is lost on death or sneak). Something like:

Dealing damage to an enemy grants a stack of Ability Focus for 60 seconds, increasing weapon and spell damage by 200. This effect may occur every 1s and stack up to 5 times. Dealing damage with a light attack removes all stacks.

Then it is a 5s buildup to 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage, which is roughly 11% DPS (in exchange for a 5pc set or mythic and all weaving damage) and should close the gap with light attack builds without exceeding their damage.

That is a decent idea but you would have to have a mythic that automatically did a LA before every skill to see what the REAL impact of this was. Since everyone likes to claiming it is only 15% while conveniently ignoring the COMPOUND effect.

@Merforum
What's the compound effect you speak of? Also, 15% is high based on every parse I look at. Everyone and their mom seems to claim its like 20% plus, one thread not that long ago claimed it actually doubled damage, but of course nobody can show that with evidence.

Only other things would be Ulti regen, which I already indicated would probably need to be added, and potentially weapon enchants for the front bar, depending on spammable or weapon skills used, that may or may not be much of an issue. Back bar enchants shouldnt matter, as if you arent running a weapon ground AOE on your back bar, you have bigger problems than weaving. LOL.

I mentioned some of the 'compound effects' in other post.
"BTW contrary to the vocal minority LA 'weave' ADDS a ton more than just 10-15% DPS, that is JUST the LA part of the equation. It doesn't count that a perfect weave gives 10 LA AND 10 skills in 10 secs, without it you only get 5la+5skill or 1la+9skill, which is WAY LESS potential damage. Also every super high parse is using LA based proc sets like rele, which explodes DPS with more LAs. And let's remember the timings on the AOEs/buffs that can be optimized when you can get close to 10la+10 skill per 10 sec, where with a slower rotation you will have much lower uptime on AOEs or less spammables in between (the difference is staggering). Even the people who say LA AC doesn't add much to damage will tell others who they are trying to teach the this too that if they go from 5la + 10 skills (because they miss 5 weaves) that if they can improve on that they can go from 90K to 120K HELLO just with a few more weaves you get massive bump. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is a broken mechanic, that significantly contribute to the power creep."

This is really getting off topic, but I think you are getting into the weeds, overstating the issue, and drawing false comparisons. In your examples of 10+10, 5+5 or 9+1, you are assuming LAs also have a one second cooldown, which they dont. You can fire more than 10 LAs in 10 seconds if that's what you chose to do. I think the cooldown is like 700 miliseconds, so that means you can fire 14 LAs in a 10 second window, or 8 skills and 3 LAs (in 10.1 seconds, and nobody is truly on a 1 second pace). But again, that is what weaving does. Skills are way more powerful than LAs. So if you arent going to weave, you would always chose 10 skills in 10 seconds. The 10 LAs you are missing, is roughly 10-11% of damage.

In terms of gear:
Plenty of gear sets dont require a LA weave to function, and there is more gear now than ever that is within a percent or two of meta. A combo like AY and Bahsei are within a percent or two of something like Kinra/Relequen. There is a long list of sets that are very strong that simply dont ever require you to LA weave, AY, Bahsei, Pillar, Tzogvin, Deadly Strike, FalseGod, VO, Most monster sets, Mythics like the Kilt, Thrassian, Death Dealers, etc. Now the fact that some meta gear requires you to LA weave just shows how invested ZOS is in the concept.

LA doesnt bring you from 90k to 120k. Its a nonsense statement. And your example is misleading. You talk about going from 5+10 to presumably 10+10, but you dont mention in how much time. People that are missing half their weaves are probably taking 13-14 seconds at least to cast 10 skills. The difference between 5+10 in 14 seconds to 10+10 in ten seconds might be the difference in 90 and 120k, but that is way more about the pace of your skills. At best the light attacks alone are around 11% damage. If you go from 5+10 to 10+10 in the same time, you are talking about a 5-6% increase. Certainly NOT 90 to 120k.

On top of that, you can reasonably discuss Ulti regen, as that is largely based on LA/Heavy attack damage. If the mythic gave 3 ult per second while in combat, it would cover it. Alternatively, and I have done this, you can just double tap a light attack every 9th skill. You can almost get 2 LAs in a one second global cooldown, but not quite. 2 LAs is not all that different from a spammable, so while its a slight DPS loss, again, maybe a % or 2.

Laslty, there is front bar weapon enchant. Your back bar enchant is kept up by your ground AOEs. Your front bar is kept up by a mixture of weapon skills and LAs. So even if you stop LA completely, you will still get procs on your front bar. Again, maybe a 1-2% damage loss.

Add it all up, and you are at 15, tops, some of which can be compensated for. Your idea of having a mythic auto fire a light attack is basically like how most auto attack MMOs function. ZOS doesnt want that, and neither does a vast majority of the competitive end game community.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt the reason someone cant break 100k in the current meta, which is more than enough DPS for any content in the game.

You are proving my point and saying it is worse than I thought if you can squeeze 14LA and 10 skills in 10 seconds, don't know if I believe that but it's a point on my side. BTW all the tests I have seen are RIGGED meaning they are all on a trial dummy with every buff in the game and also with different gear/skills to optimize situation, which in no way represents the ACTUAL EFFECT of LA weave compared to NOT doing it.

A proper test would be using the exact same setup gear/skill/AND rotation on a dummy or world boss without any buffs/synergies or anything (that you don't get from yourself), then do a parse with and without LA weaving. That is the test. If the damage in not closer to douible than 15% in that scenario, I'll admit to a slight exaggeration.

The only mythic that would be legit would be one that AUTOMATICALLY does LA weaving for you. And obviously that LA would have to react as if you did it yourself, meaning proc enchant, ult, etc. The interesting thing would be you'd still have to be pointing at something for the LA to hit is but you wouldn't have to press the trigger. And even with this item you'd still be at a disadvantage because you lose a mythic to get this, so that would be the neg effect.

BTW you'd still also have to push a skill to get the la+skill, so it still requires a rotation.

Didnt say that. I said because cooldown is 700 miliseconds on LAs, if you chose, you can fire 14 light attacks in 10 seconds (not 14 LAs and 10 skills).

To the second part, since you basically said the same thing in two posts, Ill save the effort and just respond to this one. You are flat out wrong. The best environment for a test like this is a trial dummy as its the most controlled and consistent testing environment we have access to. It is the closest thing we have to a perfect raid scenario, which is where all these numbers really matter anyways. None of these buffs are specific to a light attack or a skill, all your damage is getting buffed. It simply wouldnt matter. Sure you would do less damage on skills without a dummy, but you would also do less LA damage.

@MudcrabAttack 's posts are as objective as you can possibly get, you just dont like the results because it shows that you dont need to weave to be in the 100k club. If you cant break 100k, weaving is NOT to blame.

NO that is flatout wrong. First 99% of players never do trials so saying that is the 'best environment' is way off.

If you want to isolate only the difference between LA weave or not, you have to eliminate all extraneous buffs and synergies you get from dummy. In fact, I am changing the requirements, YOU should wear NO GEAR also since that also skews the results. The test should only be NAKED only weapon and SAME ROTATION with and without LA weave.

I know you won't do it because instead of showing a 120K parse then 90K (where 50K is from BUFFS/bonuses) is a lot different that doing it with no buffs and having a 70K/40K difference or 20K/10K even.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

This is not comparing with EVERYTHING BEING THE SAME, here is how much LA weave adds to a build.

This is here's a typical LA weave parse, and here is at totally different build/rotation optimized for not doing LA weave. It is an interesting test but NOT VALID representation of how much additional damage LA weave adds WITH EXACT SAME EVERTHING ELSE but no LA weave.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

Quoted post has been removed.

EXACTLY they would be taking a big chunk out of the powercreep problem and at the same time since all these people on here say that LA weave does only 10-15% more damage is shouldn't matter.

My solution would be to put LA on same GCD, then allow other skills like spammables proc anything that LA procs now, enchant/passives/buffs/ult etc. FIXED.

Runefang · May 2022

Yes

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

This is not comparing with EVERYTHING BEING THE SAME, here is how much LA weave adds to a build.

This is here's a typical LA weave parse, and here is at totally different build/rotation optimized for not doing LA weave. It is an interesting test but NOT VALID representation of how much additional damage LA weave adds WITH EXACT SAME EVERTHING ELSE but no LA weave.

Right, his LA weave parse would be a few k lower if he used Pillar + Yandir over Kinras + Relequen. The gap would narrow.

Merforum · May 2022

Yes, but not in the way described in the post

Runefang wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

This is not comparing with EVERYTHING BEING THE SAME, here is how much LA weave adds to a build.

This is here's a typical LA weave parse, and here is at totally different build/rotation optimized for not doing LA weave. It is an interesting test but NOT VALID representation of how much additional damage LA weave adds WITH EXACT SAME EVERTHING ELSE but no LA weave.

Right, his LA weave parse would be a few k lower if he used Pillar + Yandir over Kinras + Relequen. The gap would narrow.

Clearly there is a great deal of confusion about the scientific method. A valid experiment requires you to minimize as many variables as possible THEN do your tests EXACTLY the same with only one variable changed. ONLY then can you conclude what impact that ONE change had on the 2 results. Then once you have a minimal baseline. You can add other variables that MUST STAY CONSTANT and test some more. But obviously some variables can add a lot compared to the baseline, which would give skewed results.

What we have is a flawed test where they are taking the best possible no LA parse, and comparing it to a typical easy parse with different stuff. That is not scientific at all. The test is to have the EXACT same everything with only one variable changed. Obviously on the trial dummy that would result in the lowest possible percentage difference due to the HIGH overall damage. But we don't even have that. While the other test would show the highest percent difference.

So we don't have a valid test with max variables and lowest percent change. We don't have any test at the typical level of a normal user, like a dungeon setup. And we don't have a baseline test with No gear and minimum variables. The most important one would be the typical setup but knowing the low and high might be useful too.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

No

Merforum wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

My own light attack weaving tends to be 1.1 seconds, but I found out skills per second could reach 1.03 seconds if I cut out light attacks entirely, like this test from a few months ago, this had the kilt, pillar of nirn, and yandir

It was 120k with light attacks, ultimates, relequen, kilt, kinras, but can’t find the picture. never mind I found it

If the mythic were to add much more than 10% damage in addition to ultimate regen, I think it would get really weird for a lot of people somewhere in between the weaving spectrum as they find out skills per minute go way up without the light attacks

This is not comparing with EVERYTHING BEING THE SAME, here is how much LA weave adds to a build.

This is here's a typical LA weave parse, and here is at totally different build/rotation optimized for not doing LA weave. It is an interesting test but NOT VALID representation of how much additional damage LA weave adds WITH EXACT SAME EVERTHING ELSE but no LA weave.

Right, his LA weave parse would be a few k lower if he used Pillar + Yandir over Kinras + Relequen. The gap would narrow.

Clearly there is a great deal of confusion about the scientific method. A valid experiment requires you to minimize as many variables as possible THEN do your tests EXACTLY the same with only one variable changed. ONLY then can you conclude what impact that ONE change had on the 2 results. Then once you have a minimal baseline. You can add other variables that MUST STAY CONSTANT and test some more. But obviously some variables can add a lot compared to the baseline, which would give skewed results.

What we have is a flawed test where they are taking the best possible no LA parse, and comparing it to a typical easy parse with different stuff. That is not scientific at all. The test is to have the EXACT same everything with only one variable changed. Obviously on the trial dummy that would result in the lowest possible percentage difference due to the HIGH overall damage. But we don't even have that. While the other test would show the highest percent difference.

So we don't have a valid test with max variables and lowest percent change. We don't have any test at the typical level of a normal user, like a dungeon setup. And we don't have a baseline test with No gear and minimum variables. The most important one would be the typical setup but knowing the low and high might be useful too.

Wrong again. You know what is variable? 3 and 6 mil dummies. DK has some buffs, Necro has others, NB still others. You do tests on those settings and you are going to get different answers on every class and setup you bring. Nothing is more consistent than a trial dummy. Sure the raw numbers might be high, but the testing environment is perfectly controlled and standardized, essentially all reasonable buff is there, 100% of the time. You can objectively compare class to class, player to player, build to build, rotation to rotation. That is why we use percent's to discuss how much LA weaving can add. It makes the large number problem irrelevant. Testing essentially naked (no gear) is meaningless. You wouldn't be able to get through a rotation to be able to compare anything. Learn to weave, or dont. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Fizzyapple · May 2022

Yes

Absolutely. I think its a great idea. The more people who enjoy playing eso the better. It won't make the game worse for anyone else so I don't know what anyone would disagree. There is nothing good that comes from high DPS. There are no rewards no achievements nobody pats you on the back and the people you meet along the way are some of the worst people in the game.
it's a total waste of time and you wont make any friends rather you end up making less.

The only time I might mention my DPS in guild chat is to get some other DPS to stop telling people what they need to do to be like them.

The only good thing about having really high numbers is that you can tell other DPS to shut up about their DPS.

FeedbackOnly · May 2022

Variation is always good

pklemming · May 2022

The new form of the Oakensoul kind of fits this role. It is looking like a bridge for people who don't want to/can't weave to get higher dps. Sure, you can weave with it,, but the dps increase of one bar is sufficient to let more people do more content.

Additionally, they could focus on bonuses for HA weaving, which is easier for a lot of people. There is pretty much no point making a HA build, when LA weaving is far, far superior. Taking the additional time to HA is not vaguely compensated.

I would not use it, but we are talking about accessibility for those that may struggle to LA weave. Lets also remember LA weaving was originally not intended, but then balanced for as the game progressed.

James-Wayne · May 2022

Yes

This is actually a really good idea, it will help players that cant weave fast enough due to high pings. Less instructions being sent from Player to Server.

merpins · May 2022

Yes

I mentioned earlier that I think it would be a good idea. Similar to the Oakensoul, having more gameplay options opens up a lot in the game for people with accessibility options, or those that can't do a mechanic. For LA weaving, though I love the mechanic, I know people with low-end machines can't even dream of doing it. There are also people that are just bad at it in general, so a mythic to replace LA weaving as an option is neat.

However.

It takes an item slot for LA weaving. If they were to implement a mythic like this, I'd say they need to implement a 13th item slot, which is used to equip any mythic item you want. It would be a mythic slot specifically, and rather than replacing a piece of gear, it goes in the new slot. It would open up some options they don't currently have with the current system like items that don't really fit in any of the predetermined slots, but more than that, it would create many more additional build options for everyone.

Of course that option is a bit overtuned in general, and doing so might undermine the idea of mythics in general. It makes it so an item like this, which just replaces a mechanic in game but gives no real mechanical benefit otherwise, it makes it so this mythic could be used without a big ding to your overal DPS, tanking, or healing ability. But on the other hand, it would mean all mythics in the game would need to be tuned down in order to compensate for having their own additive slot. I like the idea I propose, but I don't like the idea of all mythics being nerfed to compensate. Of course since the slot is additive, even a small buff is additive at that point, and all numbers would increase rather than decrease in general. But. It might make mythics feel less... Mythic.

So here is my second option for such a skill:
Make it a CP slottable in the green tree. The green tree is pretty much non-combat, but with this ability being a mechanic replacement rather than something that actually would give a mechanical benefit, making green tree have some gameplay alternative skills could be the solution. Of course I don't think it should just buff you up to the same amount one would with LA weaving, but remove it from your character. If that was the case, then everyone would use it instead of LA weaving since it's more consistent. It would need to have a 20-40% decrease in effectiveness, possibly even up to 50%, for it to be a viable accessibility option, similar to how Oakensoul is a 20% decrease in effectiveness by shutting off your second bar. Similar vibe here. Either that or a powerful enough mythic that gives bonuses worth taking, but not enough to outright replace LA weaving.

In the end I'd say it's a complicated issue. How ZoS could go about it is beyond me, and my ideas I present might not be in the best interest of them or even the players. I love LA weaving, but know it's not something everyone can do. I don't think it should be removed, nor do i think it should have an alternative that's just as good, but giving more options makes sense, just like Oakensoul. I fear something like this will end up the same as Malacath's Band of Brutality, in that it will be nerfed into disuse as, by replacing a core combat mechanic like LA weaving or in Malacath's case, Crit Rate, it hits a weird grey area that is hard to fill. Weapon swapping is one thing. But LA weaving makes up for about a quarter of end-game damage, similar in scope to crit rate.

Solantris · May 2022

No

Why should you be able to get the same return with no work? Just click before you press a button, it's not complicated.

fiender66 · May 2022

Yes, I do not like it. Gimme a mythic pls

bmnoble · May 2022

No

Why not just use the Morkuldin set? You light attack once and you proc a glowing golden sword to attack your enemies for 15 seconds.

James-Wayne · May 2022

Yes

Vianca wrote: »

Why should you be able to get the same return with no work? Just click before you press a button, it's not complicated.

On a high ping connection you can click all you want but nothing will register till the server has received the click and sent it back

barney2525 · May 2022

" don't like " ... is a criteria for changing rules ?

If that's the case, let's make it - Instant Kill anything I target. I would like That.

Agenericname · May 2022

No

In the form it was suggested I would be inclined to say "no." Thats not to say that I think the idea is without potential though.

I did a test of my own recently after reading this thread on a smaller dummy, with no buffs. My results were similar to @MudcrabAttack parses. Mine was a difference of 21.7%. 44k vs 54k. That pretty consistent with what they had.

The difference between enchants was slightly higher than 1-2%, but there's a lot of room for variance on the smaller targets, hence why the 21m is the standard. The biggest difference in the parses was obviously light attacks. Of the almost 10k difference they made up over 6k of it, roughly 2/3.

As it stands, I think a 20% difference is managable in nearly any content, where I see an improvement that could be made is with ultimate generation. If a mythic were to forgo light attack damage for ultimate regeneration while in combat, it would be a reasonable trade off.

Its the adding of extra damage that I dont think truly belongs there.

xXSilverDragonXx · May 2022

Yes

Keep in mind that the majority of players do NOT light attack weave. And this forum barely represents a small portion of actual players. Most people probably never even register for the forum. Many probably do and never use it.

This forum is the epitome of the small group that screams the loudest and thus gets the attention.

Also, keep in mind that Light attack weaving is clearly based on a bug and instead of fixing it, they went with it and made it a thing.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213590/animation-cancelling-fix

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510638/animation-cancel-is-not-a-bug#:~:text=Animation cancel is no longer considered to be,it. Bug made feature = still a bug

Anyone who thinks or has come to believe that animation canceling was part of the design, that all the sometimes silly and sometimes well designed animations were intended to be canceled so you could throw in a light attack really needs to stop and ponder that a bit. It's a bug they never fixed. They decided to promote a bug.

Next time people complain about bugs not getting fixed I should tell them to wait a bit and it might be promoted as a feature just like light attack weaving.

Naftal · May 2022

No

You already have the option to just not light attack weave.

EramTheLiar · May 2022

I think this is fundamentally a lost cause.

At the very, very beginning of this game, way back when, when the earth was young and there were veteran levels, light attack weaving wasn't a thing. The way you did damage was to use your spells and abilities, pretty much exclusively. Light and heavy attacks were... there. I guess to get your resources back. To be honest, it was so far long ago that I don't even remember why they existed, other than to meet some basic feeling of obligation. But they weren't intended to be part of your damage.

In fact, when ESO announced the change that forced you to start using light and heavy attacks more, the general population was up in arms because -- and I still basically agree with this -- using the spells and abilities are more fun. Light attacks and heavy attacks are boring, and the abilities are what make a class a class.

They decided to do it anyway. They deliberately changed from the thing you want to the thing now. And ultimately, despite the fact that I was pretty strongly in the camp that opposed the change... I mean, I still enjoy playing the game, so... they won that fight. Fundamentally. And since they deliberately already made that choice, a long time ago, in the face of all the opposition it generated, I just don't see them going back to the way it was.