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Oakensoul Ring - The Only Valid WW Mythic Now?
MashmalloMan
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The ring has taken a solid direction (in theory) by providing named common and uncommon buffs to allow some overlap for WW and 1 bar builds, but still providing a ton of power and skill bar space.
However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. This esentially kills build diversity.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Did Werewolves really want this?
Edited by MashmalloMan on May 9, 2022 9:05PM However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. This esentially kills build diversity.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.
- Major Ward (WW Overlap)
- Major Brutality/Sorcery (WW Overlap)
- Major Savagery/Prophecy (WW Overlap)
- Major Berserk (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Rage)
- Major Courage
- Minor Endurance (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Fortitude)
- Minor Fortitude (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Fortitude)
- Minor Intellect
- Major Protection
- Major Force
- Major Heroism
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Did Werewolves really want this?
6
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Yarcanine✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The ring has taken a solid direction (in theory) by providing named common and uncommon buffs to allow some overlap for WW and 1 bar builds, but still providing a ton of power and skill bar space.
However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. Are upset that this esentially kills build diversity? What is the point of Shape Shifters Chain. You would be insane to not use this item.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.- Minor Endurance
- Minor Fortitude
- Minor Intellect
- Major Brutality/Sorcery (WW Overlap)
- Major Savagery/Prophecy (WW Overlap)
- Major Berserk
- Major Protection
- Major Force
- Major Heroism
- Major Ward (WW Overlap)
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Minor Endurance and Fortitude also overlap with WW. Heroism is only outside WW form and might make the berserker morph viable. This is the go to damage mythic for ww now. There still exists situations where one might choose Snow treaders, sithis, or wildhunt.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gaze is still superior in terms of survivability. Extra armor and health pool make much stronger heals and your HP depletes slower.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ill probably end up trying this out on my WW toon, although to fit it in better i really wish there was some kind of arena weapon that modifies vamp/WW skills
the major heroism i agree would do nothing while you were in WW mode, but it would also help you to get WW mode faster
honestly my WW toon was not super effective outside of WW mode to begin with, so all i might do is need to adjust a few things around, but it might end up helping him in the long runplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gaze is still superior in terms of survivability. Extra armor and health pool make much stronger heals and your HP depletes slower.
You would be giving up 10% all mitigation vs the 4k armor (6% pvp mitigation) and 3.2k health. Health regen is pretty dead in PVP and I wouldn't say 700 HP return every 2s is worth very much when you can block with this ring.
Armor can be penetrated greatly and completely avoided via skills like Corrosive Armor, Balorgh, Debuffs, etc.
% based mitigation is infinitely better since it can never be removed. This is only touching on defense. What about the offensive power that allows you to be less defensive as you may be able to force someone to go on defense themselves. Major Force and Major Berserk are hard to give up.
The only logical sense I could see for a WW to choose Sithis over this is because they want to be a troll tank, you're just giving up too much.Edited by MashmalloMan on May 9, 2022 8:48PM1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nope.
Gaze of Sithis and maybe Shapeshifter's Chain will be superior.
From a WW perspective, the only 3 things this Mythic gives are:
+ Major Courage (430 weapon damage).
+ Major Protection (Reduces damage taken by 10%).
+/- Major Force (Increases critical damage done by 20%) - but for that you need to have decent crit chance so it is either good, or something you wont even notice.
The rest of the buffs is overlapping with things that WW already has, or is irrelevant in WW form (like Heroism buff).
If something, I would say that Oakensoul is pretty much a "A Werewolf in a Mythic", but better. Something that not many people realise - Oakensoul, aside from not having a max stamina & speed buff, will offer very similar buffs to what Werewolf passives are. And in some cases it will be even better:
- Major Courage (WW has Minor Courage).
- Major Protection (WW has same thing, but as a unique buff).
- Major Brutality & Sorcery (same as WW).
- Major Resolve (same as WW).
- Major Berserk (WW Hircine's Rage skill, but it also make you take 5% more dmg).
- Minor Endurance, Fortitude, Intellect (WW Hircine's Fortitude will have it next patch, so you can not have both this & brutality at the same time, as it comes from different skill morph).
- Major Force (WW does not have it).
- Major Heroism (WW does not have it).
1-bar build with Oakensoul will outperform WW (even if WW will also use Oakensoul), as regular 1-bar build will pretty much have almost same buffs & passives that WW has (with minor nuances), but it won't have all of the flaws that WW has (limited toolkit & skill set, no class & weapon passives, more poison & fighters guild dmg taken, more expensive skills etc).
At this point, using WW in any content seems to be purely cosmetic it seem. If we would have a WW polymorph, then I bet every WW player out there would use Oakensoul + WW polymorph instead of using actual WW transformation.
Forget about WWs, the things that will be problematic are min-maxing PvP bombers / gankers. Every one was so focused on WW in PvP, but it seems people forgot that other PvP builds exists. Just imagine what Oakensoul will enable when it comes to ganking. It will be so strong that we might even see a return on Snipe builds. And Bombers for sure will be OP AF with it.
Imagine a regular ganker / bomber having WW passives & buffs, but in human form...3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The ring has taken a solid direction (in theory) by providing named common and uncommon buffs to allow some overlap for WW and 1 bar builds, but still providing a ton of power and skill bar space.
However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. Are upset that this esentially kills build diversity? What is the point of Shape Shifters Chain. You would be insane to not use this item.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.- Minor Endurance
- Minor Fortitude
- Minor Intellect
- Major Brutality/Sorcery (WW Overlap)
- Major Savagery/Prophecy (WW Overlap)
- Major Courage
- Major Berserk
- Major Protection
- Major Force
- Major Heroism
- Major Ward (WW Overlap)
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Minor Endurance and Fortitude also overlap with WW. Heroism is only outside WW form and might make the berserker morph viable. This is the go to damage mythic for ww now. There still exists situations where one might choose Snow treaders, sithis, or wildhunt.
I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
Heroism is only outside WW, but it helps you get in WW faster, exactly like Shape Shifters Chain. Major Heroism is the strongest ult gen source in the game and probably outpaces Shape Shifter for that purpose.
Wildhunt.. maybe.
But you're literally giving up 2 jewelry traits worth of movement speed (aka only 200 damage from infused) for ALL of those buffs, when WW has movement speed built in.
Can you use other mythics? Yes. Is that the best direction for a WW builds investment? Probably not. This is BIS imo.
Edited by MashmalloMan on May 9, 2022 9:08PM3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/603045/pts-patch-notes-v8-0-0#latest
- Werewolf
- Hircine’s Bounty
Hircine’s Fortitude (morph): This morph now grants Minor Endurance and Fortitude for 20 seconds after casting, rather than a unique amount of Health and Stamina Recovery based on the healing caused for 6 seconds.
It is on PTS, so next patch WW will have it instead of a unique buff.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 9, 2022 8:57PM1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/603045/pts-patch-notes-v8-0-0#latest
- Werewolf
- Hircine’s Bounty
Hircine’s Fortitude (morph): This morph now grants Minor Endurance and Fortitude for 20 seconds after casting, rather than a unique amount of Health and Stamina Recovery based on the healing caused for 6 seconds.
It is on PTS, so next patch WW will have it instead of a unique buff.
Ah thank you. Appologies.0 -
Kory✭✭✭✭Depends on what your build is, all those mythic are viable on a werewolf some way or another. Some more so than others (shape shifters chain :'( )
"Gaze is still superior in terms of survivability. Extra armor and health pool make much stronger heals and your HP depletes slower." - divnyi0 -
huskandhunger✭✭✭✭✭Each mythic item has its own special uses for different builds and each player's own play style, it's just one among many options to make your build your own
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Nope.
Gaze of Sithis and maybe Shapeshifter's Chain will be superior.
From a WW perspective, the only 3 things this Mythic gives are:
+ Major Courage (430 weapon damage).
+ Major Protection (Reduces damage taken by 10%).
+/- Major Force (Increases critical damage done by 20%) - but for that you need to have decent crit chance so it is either good, or something you wont even notice.
The rest of the buffs is overlapping with things that WW already has, or is irrelevant in WW form (like Heroism buff).
If something, I would say that Oakensoul is pretty much a "A Werewolf in a Mythic", but better. Something that not many people realise - Oakensoul, aside from not having a max stamina & speed buff, will offer very similar buffs to what Werewolf passives are. And in some cases it will be even better:
- Major Courage (WW has Minor Courage).
- Major Protection (WW has same thing, but as a unique buff).
- Major Brutality & Sorcery (same as WW).
- Major Resolve (same as WW).
- Major Berserk (WW Hircine's Rage skill, but it also make you take 5% more dmg).
- Minor Endurance, Fortitude, Intellect (WW Hircine's Fortitude will have it next patch, so you can not have both this & brutality at the same time, as it comes from different skill morph).
- Major Force (WW does not have it).
- Major Heroism (WW does not have it).
1-bar build with Oakensoul will outperform WW (even if WW will also use Oakensoul), as regular 1-bar build will pretty much have almost same buffs & passives that WW has (with minor nuances), but it won't have all of the flaws that WW has (limited toolkit & skill set, no class & weapon passives, more poison & fighters guild dmg taken, more expensive skills etc).
At this point, using WW in any content seems to be purely cosmetic it seem. If we would have a WW polymorph, then I bet every WW player out there would use Oakensoul + WW polymorph instead of using actual WW transformation.
Forget about WWs, the things that will be problematic are min-maxing PvP bombers / gankers. Every one was so focused on WW in PvP, but it seems people forgot that other PvP builds exists. Just imagine what Oakensoul will enable when it comes to ganking. It will be so strong that we might even see a return on Snipe builds. And Bombers for sure will be OP AF with it.
Imagine a regular ganker / bomber having WW passives & buffs, but in human form...
Regarding your comment on Sithis and Shapeshifter's Chain, I'd like to hear your argument as to why those are better vs this, most of your comment was comparing WW to 1 bar builds which is off topic to my post. I asked if build diversity is now dead for WW's because this esentially, at least in my opinion, became best in slot.
The 3 points you mentioned sound better to me at face value honestly, but you missed that you have to choose between Minor Sustain buffs or more damage taken for Berserk. Ult gen while minor, helps you get into WW form faster which is something Shapeshifter's Chain has a direct buff for, yet this helps achieve that purpose faster.
If you think Major Heroism is useless, than so is -15% transformation cost which is a large portion of Shapeshifters set value. Shapeshifters only gives 1.7k stam, health and mag, with -15% cost reduction to skills. It's good, but does it beat out all the extra buffs you get on this. I'd argue it doesn't come close.
Do you think you won't use this item?Edited by MashmalloMan on May 9, 2022 9:25PM0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
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It depends on the playstyle, if you are a hit and run playstyle, the extra armor and health helps with that. So that's why you use Gaze of Sithis over another option. So you can reserve your stamina attribute points to stamina instead of health. Because reaching a specific health point threshold is key to any PVP build.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Gaze is still superior in terms of survivability. Extra armor and health pool make much stronger heals and your HP depletes slower.
You would be giving up 10% all mitigation vs the 4k armor (6% pvp mitigation) and 3.2k health. Health regen is pretty dead in PVP and I wouldn't say 700 HP return every 2s is worth very much when you can block with this ring.
Armor can be penetrated greatly and completely avoided via skills like Corrosive Armor, Balorgh, Debuffs, etc.
% based mitigation is infinitely better since it can never be removed. This is only touching on defense. What about the offensive power that allows you to be less defensive as you may be able to force someone to go on defense themselves. Major Force and Major Berserk are hard to give up.
The only logical sense I could see for a WW to choose Sithis over this is because they want to be a troll tank, you're just giving up too much.
I'm not sure what you mean about troll tank. A troll tank to me is someone who can block infinitely and pop heals for 5 minutes straight while being hit on by 3 people at the same time and still surviving. A werewolf can at most pop 4 heals in a row before running out of Magicka.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
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Just remember, if someone is running 50k HP, a werewolf would be hitting for very low damage and not killing anyone.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The ring has taken a solid direction (in theory) by providing named common and uncommon buffs to allow some overlap for WW and 1 bar builds, but still providing a ton of power and skill bar space.
However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. Are upset that this esentially kills build diversity? What is the point of Shape Shifters Chain. You would be insane to not use this item.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.- Minor Endurance
- Minor Fortitude
- Minor Intellect
- Major Brutality/Sorcery (WW Overlap)
- Major Savagery/Prophecy (WW Overlap)
- Major Courage
- Major Berserk
- Major Protection
- Major Force
- Major Heroism
- Major Ward (WW Overlap)
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Minor Endurance and Fortitude also overlap with WW. Heroism is only outside WW form and might make the berserker morph viable. This is the go to damage mythic for ww now. There still exists situations where one might choose Snow treaders, sithis, or wildhunt.
I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
Heroism is only outside WW, but it helps you get in WW faster, exactly like Shape Shifters Chain. Major Heroism is the strongest ult gen source in the game and probably outpaces Shape Shifter for that purpose.
Wildhunt.. maybe.
But you're literally giving up 2 jewelry traits worth of movement speed (aka only 200 damage from infused) for ALL of those buffs, when WW has movement speed built in.
Can you use other mythics? Yes. Is that the best direction for a WW builds investment? Probably not. This is BIS imo.
I don't agree. It's not the only mythic worth using in all situations.
- Gaze of Sithis for tanky/kitey wolf
- Snow Treaders for large group play wolf so you can't get locked down and still be able to move with your group
- Wild Hunt for Cyrodiil long distance running and IC kiting large groups for hit and run style
- Oakensoul for the damage leaning wolf1 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭I will say it could be the best option for a damage wolf more so than before and on the note from the above post you can make troll werewolves on the live server right now that can nearly infinitely spam the heal with only small pausesEdited by J18696 on May 9, 2022 9:35PM0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will say it could be the best option for a damage wolf more so than before and on the note from the above post you can make troll werewolves on the live server right now that can nearly infinitely spam the heal with only small pauses
Yes exactly. 40k + HP Werewolves with Knight Slayer that hit like a wet noodle but are impossible to kill in 1v1. Yeah Sithis has a purpose for that, but if you were using Sithis for a well rounded build, you're better off using this for the offense and defense it provides.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The ring has taken a solid direction (in theory) by providing named common and uncommon buffs to allow some overlap for WW and 1 bar builds, but still providing a ton of power and skill bar space.
However, It seems like this is now the best possible mythic to use in almost every scenario for a WW or 1 bar build. This esentially kills build diversity.
Overland, 4 man pve arenas, solo pve arenas, 4 man dungeons, solo pvp, 4 man BG pvp, small scale IC/Cyro pvp.
The only scenario where this may not be used is corrdinated large scale 12 man groups for PVE and PVP, even then, you may not get full uptime on some of these buffs.- Major Ward (WW Overlap)
- Major Brutality/Sorcery (WW Overlap)
- Major Savagery/Prophecy (WW Overlap)
- Major Berserk (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Rage)
- Major Courage
- Minor Endurance (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Fortitude)
- Minor Fortitude (WW Overlap - Hircine’s Fortitude)
- Minor Intellect
- Major Protection
- Major Force
- Major Heroism
Why use Gaze of Sithis?
Why use Malacath?
Why use Death Dealers Fete?
Why use Shape Shifters Chain?
Did Werewolves really want this?
I appreciate you looking out for werewolf players, the very few of us that exist.
I would love it if my werewolf could effectively play a healer/off healer, or tank for an extended period of time a group of 4+ players in the same area without kiting around, or bring overwhelming damage in terms of wiping entire groups with coordinated ultimate dumps with my teammates. But alas, werewolf doesn't have that kind of set selection, skill selection, or build diversity to help us fill any of those roles at any high tier level.
Hybridization didn't help werewolves at all either, so we're missing out on the boat with a lot of these cool changes to the game. Really, what werewolf needs is for the changes to be inherent only to werewolf skills and passives and not just a few select items.Edited by Skoomah on May 9, 2022 9:56PM0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I will say it could be the best option for a damage wolf more so than before and on the note from the above post you can make troll werewolves on the live server right now that can nearly infinitely spam the heal with only small pauses
Yes exactly. 40k + HP Werewolves with Knight Slayer that hit like a wet noodle but are impossible to kill in 1v1. Yeah Sithis has a purpose for that, but if you were using Sithis for a well rounded build, you're better off using this for the offense and defense it provides.
I appreciate, you as as non-werewolf player, trying to share your thoughts on how to build a werewolf and how to play one effectively, but I don't agree with your premise that Oaken is the only thing to use at all times. Even with this updated ring, I would still think long and hard about confronting powerful DKs, Templars, and some other players and classes that outclass my werewolf.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Do you think you won't use this item?
I probably won't. Not on a WW at least. Idk, it seems that there are better options, but again - build is a matter of what play-style one prefers.
Shapeshifter's Chain:
- Reduce the cost of your Transformation Ultimate abilities by 15%.
- Reduce the cost of your Werewolf skills by 15% (next patch, it is still on PTS).
- While transformed, increase your Maximum Health, Stamina, and Magicka by 1707.
Gaze of Sithis:
- Adds 3276 Maximum Health.
- Adds 1025 Health Recovery.
- Adds 4000 Armor.
Oakensoul:
- Major Courage (Adds 430 weapon damage).
- Major Protection (Reduces damage taken by 10%).
- Major Force (Increases critical damage done by 20%).
- Major Heroism (Faster transformation, but later irrelevant in WW form).
^ Those are the buffs that affect WW.
Shapeshifter's Chain will be great for sustain, while Gaze of Sithis will be very good for survivability. Oakensoul (despite having Major Protection) will not be as good for survivability, due to scaling. At some point if you have a lot of armor, Major Protection gives diminishing return, so it is like 3 - 2% or less. So that leaves Oakensoul as a DMG oriented set, and for a WW - there are better DMG oriented mythics.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 9, 2022 9:57PM1 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also, to be frank, the largest werewolf guild on the PC NA server, lives in No CP and No Proc PVP environments because werewolves simply can't compete against well coordinated and optimally put together non-werewolf groups. They've lived in the No CP and No Proc PVP environment for years without access to the new gear sets because werewolves just simply can't compete...
A good group with excellent cross healing and well coordinated ultimate dumps and damage rotations wipes a werewolf wolf pack 90% of the time.1 -
taugrim✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/603045/pts-patch-notes-v8-0-0#latest
- Werewolf
- Hircine’s Bounty
Hircine’s Fortitude (morph): This morph now grants Minor Endurance and Fortitude for 20 seconds after casting, rather than a unique amount of Health and Stamina Recovery based on the healing caused for 6 seconds.
It is on PTS, so next patch WW will have it instead of a unique buff.
Wait, WW is getting buffed?
People have been claiming bloody murder about WW. Those are really nice buffs to Hircine's!PC | NA | CP 2.4k- Active: Dark Elf Stamina Arcanist | Dark Elf Stamina Templar
- Inactive: Dark Elf Stamina Necromancer | Nord Stamina Warden | Orc Stamina Sorceror | Nord Stamina Nightblade | Nord Stamina Dragonknight
BUILDS- Stamina Warden Brawler PVP: Full Guide / Videos | Forum Discussion
- Ankle Biters | Legends Syndicate (PVP) | Moonlit Shenanigans | Song of Broken Pines (PVP) | Ulfhednar (PVP)
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taugrim✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Oakensoul (despite having Major Protection) will not be as good for survivability, due to scaling. At some point if you have a lot of armor, Major Protection gives diminishing return, so it is like 3 - 2% or less. So that leaves Oakensoul as a DMG oriented set, and for a WW - there are better DMG oriented mythics.
This is mathematically incorrect.
What matters is the damage taken.
If you go from 99% to 99.5% mitigation, sure it's a 0.5% increase to mitigation, but it takes twice as much damage to kill you, because you mitigate 50% of the damage taken relative to before. Or IOW, the more mitigation you have, assuming no DR (which there isn't with armor, there is simply a hard cap), the more mitigation becomes valuable.
Now granted, simply stacking mitigation beyond a point isn't useful, because your enemies will easily outheal the lackluster damage you output.Edited by taugrim on May 9, 2022 10:10PMPC | NA | CP 2.4k- Active: Dark Elf Stamina Arcanist | Dark Elf Stamina Templar
- Inactive: Dark Elf Stamina Necromancer | Nord Stamina Warden | Orc Stamina Sorceror | Nord Stamina Nightblade | Nord Stamina Dragonknight
BUILDS- Stamina Warden Brawler PVP: Full Guide / Videos | Forum Discussion
- Ankle Biters | Legends Syndicate (PVP) | Moonlit Shenanigans | Song of Broken Pines (PVP) | Ulfhednar (PVP)
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J18696✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I will say it could be the best option for a damage wolf more so than before and on the note from the above post you can make troll werewolves on the live server right now that can nearly infinitely spam the heal with only small pauses
Yes exactly. 40k + HP Werewolves with Knight Slayer that hit like a wet noodle but are impossible to kill in 1v1. Yeah Sithis has a purpose for that, but if you were using Sithis for a well rounded build, you're better off using this for the offense and defense it provides.
I still think sithis is a better option defensively still but I do understand your point you can still get decent dmg out of that style of ww without knightslayer
that can tank multiple players like nothing and kill not all but most players in cyro group this style of build with more ww then it really does not matter how much dmg you have
5+ ww on arguably unkillable builds will just bully you one by one peel damage off eachother with fears and the speed they get let them kite around rocks or towers faster than anyone0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »I'm not seeing minor endurance and fortitude anywhere in the WW kit? Where would you be getting that from?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/603045/pts-patch-notes-v8-0-0#latest
- Werewolf
- Hircine’s Bounty
Hircine’s Fortitude (morph): This morph now grants Minor Endurance and Fortitude for 20 seconds after casting, rather than a unique amount of Health and Stamina Recovery based on the healing caused for 6 seconds.
It is on PTS, so next patch WW will have it instead of a unique buff.
Wait, WW is getting buffed?
People have been claiming bloody murder about WW. Those are really nice buffs to Hircine's!
It's not a buff. If you're a werewolf that runs low sustain, the minor buffs will translate into less resources for the werewolf.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Oakensoul (despite having Major Protection) will not be as good for survivability, due to scaling. At some point if you have a lot of armor, Major Protection gives diminishing return, so it is like 3 - 2% or less. So that leaves Oakensoul as a DMG oriented set, and for a WW - there are better DMG oriented mythics.
This is mathematically incorrect.
What matters is the damage taken.
If you go from 99% to 99.5% mitigation, sure it's a 0.5% increase to mitigation, but it takes twice as much damage to kill you, because you mitigate 50% of the damage taken relative to before. Or IOW, the more mitigation you have, assuming no DR (which there isn't with armor, there is simply a hard cap), the more mitigation becomes valuable.
Now granted, simply stacking mitigation beyond a point isn't useful, because your enemies will easily outheal the lackluster damage you output.
Lots of mathematics, but I still don't see how a Sorc that invests into speed and streaks, a DK that invests into sustain and healing, a NB that invests into appropriately timed cloaks, a Necro with their slew of powerful healing skills and mitigation passives, and a Templar with their healing and bubbles is any less effective with mitigating damage. At the end of the day, the werewolf really just has about 4 full heals before they're empty of Magicka or they use their speed to run away. In my experience, a high health pool in exchange for lower damage just means a character that is waiting to die.0 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I make an updated werewolf build next patch, I will be using the ring over sithis and the chain now, these buffs are too good to pass up. Permanent major protection is already better than the 4k armor from gaze1 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Nope.
Gaze of Sithis and maybe Shapeshifter's Chain will be superior.
From a WW perspective, the only 3 things this Mythic gives are:
+ Major Courage (430 weapon damage).
+ Major Protection (Reduces damage taken by 10%).
+/- Major Force (Increases critical damage done by 20%) - but for that you need to have decent crit chance so it is either good, or something you wont even notice.
The rest of the buffs is overlapping with things that WW already has, or is irrelevant in WW form (like Heroism buff).
If something, I would say that Oakensoul is pretty much a "A Werewolf in a Mythic", but better. Something that not many people realise - Oakensoul, aside from not having a max stamina & speed buff, will offer very similar buffs to what Werewolf passives are. And in some cases it will be even better:
- Major Courage (WW has Minor Courage).
- Major Protection (WW has same thing, but as a unique buff).
- Major Brutality & Sorcery (same as WW).
- Major Resolve (same as WW).
- Major Berserk (WW Hircine's Rage skill, but it also make you take 5% more dmg).
- Minor Endurance, Fortitude, Intellect (WW Hircine's Fortitude will have it next patch, so you can not have both this & brutality at the same time, as it comes from different skill morph).
- Major Force (WW does not have it).
- Major Heroism (WW does not have it).
1-bar build with Oakensoul will outperform WW (even if WW will also use Oakensoul), as regular 1-bar build will pretty much have almost same buffs & passives that WW has (with minor nuances), but it won't have all of the flaws that WW has (limited toolkit & skill set, no class & weapon passives, more poison & fighters guild dmg taken, more expensive skills etc).
At this point, using WW in any content seems to be purely cosmetic it seem. If we would have a WW polymorph, then I bet every WW player out there would use Oakensoul + WW polymorph instead of using actual WW transformation.
Forget about WWs, the things that will be problematic are min-maxing PvP bombers / gankers. Every one was so focused on WW in PvP, but it seems people forgot that other PvP builds exists. Just imagine what Oakensoul will enable when it comes to ganking. It will be so strong that we might even see a return on Snipe builds. And Bombers for sure will be OP AF with it.
Imagine a regular ganker / bomber having WW passives & buffs, but in human form...
Don't think onebar bombers will be a thing. Usually need both your bars for this. But I might be wrong. xDEU | PC0
