Shagreth wrote: »

The changes made in the PTR won't suddenly make Vampires viable. We need a complete rework, firstly the feel of being a vampire should be enhanced, right now you just maintain a certain stage and feed once every some hours, preferably there should be a 'blood spending' system for combat (with combat feeding?) but I can't see that happening. The vampire spammable, while boring, should have been ranged at least. Some kind of slight penalty while out in the sun, just for the hell of it. Like, you can remove the HP regen penalty from stages and make it be while under sunlight, that would help vampire survivability slightly, sometimes. Also, mesmerize COULD be useful, but it's too damn hard to hit anything with it. Vampire Drain is a joke ability, unless you buff it massively or change it altogether.

Ultimate doesn't only look bad but it's extremely underwhelming, the only thing nowadays that people use (in PvP at least) is that damnable passive 'undeath'. Vampirism, as it stands, is a free weakness in almost every other scenario.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Pretty please

while we are at it can we rework Werewolf too? Thank you.

Maybe a model update for the WW, dude's ugly as hell

Shagreth wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Maybe a model update for the WW, dude's ugly as hell

Indeed, IIRC the model is still the one used since launch. There should be some way to customize WW's look. As for the rework, part of it should be the ability to turn into one at any time and make feeding work like this: you need to consume a humanoid heart from a corpse every X amount of time, otherwise you get a debuff that gradually gets stronger, nothing too major, mostly for the flavor. Anyway, just an idea, I'm sure the more dedicated WW players have better ones.

Vampire -- an idea for an alternative blood system for combat would be an ability with a CD similar to Blast Bones, where you instead extract a portion of blood, store it (up to a certain number) and use it to power/empower certain abilities. Feeding out of combat (or even IN with mesmerize -- to finish off foes) could help with storing up blood for the next encounter. Blood magic makes sense. This feels more like a mod though, I really don't think they'll bother with a rework, since vampires had their expansion and are not a selling point.

Vampire lord look would be amazing, but it doesn't make sense lore wise.

I really love the idea of that werewolf change to introduce more freedom for transformation and play time, while invoking a greater penalty, that's really cool Shagreth

Quote one Blood Frenzy change this patch:

Based on much of the initial feedback we saw over last update, we've decided to help this ability ramp up a little quicker to make it feel more aggressive and ravenous for the user, while slightly easing back on the risk of using it since the reward isn't nearly as high as before.

Somehow someone seems to having a blast playing with that skill. At least they did listend to the feedback that the high risk high reward playstyle isnt for everybody and did change this skill to be less risky and easier manage. The scaling change with the drain buff was good. At the moment i dont feel like that they ever rework it again, maybe if new developers rewatch vampire. But it is good that we still keep on pushing this topic, maybe one fine day they do us a favour. *Hopium*

Shagreth wrote: »

sinnereso wrote: »

I like how werewolf works now and that you can sort of maintain the form. I havent played it as I'm a vampire but thats roughly my interpretation of it..

I'd like to see something like that too for vampire rather than just being vampire and playing normally. Id like to be able to transform and maintain it longer or forever with serious killing or something. THAT would make the ult interesting imo

If they're going to make us stay longer in that scion form -- then they better change the way it looks.

The Blood Scion looks fine, it certainly looks more powerful then your meager mortal looking form.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Lamae Bal was the original Vampire, during the visions you see in the Vampirism quest she states the following:

Lamae Bal: "Arkay the Forsaker, we curse you! You left us to suffer in darkness."
Lamae Bal: "But we survived. And in darkness we grew."
Lamae Bal: "Now, we feed upon your followers. We will use their stolen strength to conquer and consume you."

It is clear she intended Vampires to feed to grow stronger from the very start and as the original Vampire should she not hold the right to decide what a true Vampire is? in that case the Blood Scions are the true Vampires, the rest by definition are not, they just contracted a disease and cannot even consume blood without it weakening them, they have Diet Vampirism.

Besides being a Blood Scion makes you unique.

Yes, it's inconsistent with the rest of the lore in all of the other games, and even the lore represented in the books inside of ESO. You are indeed unique. Very unique. Nonsensically unique. Unlike every other vampire... you are cursed to... not drink blood? Just chill, nothing bad happens. No thirst at all. No need to drink.

But if you do drink blood, you get weaker... More feral. You know, like all of the other vampires do if they don't drink blood? It really makes for an awkward time at vampire parties. While all of your friends are feasting and drinking blood for strength and beauty, you get to abstain, as you don't want to devolve into a bloodfiend looking thing and ruin the event.

Vampires were nerfed out of pve, nerfed out of roleplay, and right now the only thing left is undeath for pvp. The OP was asking that the 'feel' of vampire be reworked again. Making it fit back into Elder Scrolls vampiric lore would be a good start.

I think alot of it is the awkwardness of balancing it in all regards. It's harder to have a high risk, high reward playstyle when the amount of content is so varied. Vampirism, unlike ww is supposed to be more of a background mechanic. A dual wielding vampire will still be dual wielding unlike a ww.

In Morrowind you had a permanent 50% weakness to fire, Oblivion introduced the stages mechanic where weakness to fire went from 20% to 50% and the same in Skyrim post Dawnguard, Skyrim pre DG was 25% to 100%. While somewhat punishing when combating fire damage the overall distribution of damage made it less potent. In eso whole dungeons would be beyond your reach and pvp would be tough when you take that much more damage from siege or magdks.

Maybe add more weight to the vampire stages? Modify the passives to always work but just less efficiently. Undeath should be maybe 7% at Stage 1, 14% at Stage 2, 21% at Stage 3 and 28% at Stage 4. Increase the fire dmg taken by a bit to make varying vampire stages when doing different content necessary. In vamp ult form you should float and so be immune to ground placed effects and snare/roots but can't sprint. Swarming scion gives you a unique 20% movement speed buff. Perfect scion morph gives you Stage 5 vampire which is just a higher stage so maybe 35% undeath, along with more fire dmg taken and increased ability cost.

Bring back Morrowind and Daggerfall vampire clans for more rp and flexibility. Maybe one of them gives a slight increase to the undeath passive, another more weapon damage from the strike from the shadows passive. Some clans could even get a mythic item only usable to vampires of that clan that maybe modifies vampire abilities, ie when using vamp ult become inflicted with major vulnerability and major defile for 10 seconds but eviscerate and its morphs do double damage for those 10 seconds. Maybe another makes drain AOE. Another could add a 40% chance on non-player non-boss enemies hit by mesmerize to instantly die as if they slit their own throats under your thrall.

As an aside if you want to just use vampire abilities, oakensoul would partially eliminate the need to have to use class abilties for buffs. You can use maj brutality or sorcery pots or the rattlecage set.

It used to eat through your feeding timer to use vampire abilities before the rework they did when Greymoor came out. It would a more submersing design for it to be so again, but with all the nerfs the skills aren't really worth using again like before.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think the larger issue is unique buffs, Something that makes Necro really valuable is access to Major Vuln, which is still only found on Necro. I think every class should have access to a unique Major Buff, Like Warden getting Major Brittle (Nudge Nudge Zos). I'm sure there can be things that other classes can provide as well, but that's an Idea.

I want more variety, more morphs and skill lines, otherwise the game will get stale fast. Also, looks like they don't like the fact that necros were the only thing that brings major vulnerability. A set can now replace a necro, higher uptime too. I don't agree with that design philosophy and the existence of that set, but whatever. We don't have much say.

Also, this thread is pointless, I keep thinking about it, the amount of time it would take to rework the whole experience, meanwhile they have deadlines, it won't become a selling point again (doubt we'll see anything major with the vampire theme before ESO runs its course) then they also have to go and edit out the vampire 'tutorial' etc. it's just not worth it for them. And this is not just the cynic talking, it just doesn't make sense for them to go and do that.

Shagreth wrote: »

Also, this thread is pointless, I keep thinking about it, the amount of time it would take to rework the whole experience, meanwhile they have deadlines, it won't become a selling point again (doubt we'll see anything major with the vampire theme before ESO runs its course) then they also have to go and edit out the vampire 'tutorial' etc. it's just not worth it for them. And this is not just the cynic talking, it just doesn't make sense for them to go and do that.

This is why I tend to press for tweaks to their existing skill lines. They went all in on breaking the lore and creating some sort of inverted bloodfiend experience. A complete rework for that is indeed a big ask, and to be blunt, I don't think the niche group of vampires matter much at all in the big scheme of things. There are card games to make, after all, while they secretly work on the new Druid class for next year. But perhaps if people pushed for easy changes that align with the design philosophy, someone might get convinced that the day or two it would take to tweak a skill is worth it.

Personally, I think a very easy change would be to make vampiric drain's damage scale like an execute. It's an absolutely useless skill as it is. The heal is terrible. The damage is pathetic. The fact that it's channeled makes it even worse. If the damage were increased by 400% against targets under 50% (like two-handed executioner), the damage is still going to be significantly worse than any other execute in the game on account of it being a channel. It still would be nowhere near the damage of a Templar's Radiant Oppression.

The skill would still be roleplay, but it would be far more immersive. Draining the final life out of your overland enemy? That sort of thing would actually feel vampiric. Bonus points to make it extend a scion's transformation time, or some other neat effect that impacts the actual vampirism.

Shagreth wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The Blood Scion looks fine, it certainly looks more powerful then your meager mortal looking form.

It's basically a neutered Vampire Lord, it doesn't look fine, and the majority tend to agree, from polls and posts I've seen since its inception. To each their own, I guess.

Except the Blood Scion has larger horns, a second set of upper fangs, proper hands that do not have stumps and is not hunched over like a Vampire Lord, also better to have no wings then ones that look like they belong on a chicken.

Shagreth wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Except the Blood Scion has larger horns, a second set of upper fangs, proper hands that do not have stumps and is not hunched over like a Vampire Lord, also better to have no wings then ones that look like
they belong on a chicken.

Really don't want to turn this into a VL Vs. Scion thread, but I really can't see what you are describing. In any case, I still find the lord to be more 'complete' as a look.

That's not even a complete picture of a Scion, that is when they did not even have teeth added, also the horn size is obviously there, look where the Vampire Lords head is positioned in the picture and how it's horns end right at the top of the image where as the Scions head is placed about a centimeter lower in the image and yet its horns do not even fit completely in frame.