What the community really wants

Dexter411 · April 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Out of curiosity I did a search. Earliest mention of wanting a mini game I saw was April 2014. Were quite a few requests in 2014 and 2015. I didn't look at other years but I expect similar requests. Again forums don't show what the population wants as not a large enough sample size but it is not true that mini games have not been requested.
Probably been requested more often than new classes if looking at overall time of game. Just a guess though.

We all know that the card minigame will bring nothing but $ if you put anything related to it in Crown Store, that is the main reason why it will be implemented.

Meanwhile, You can still softlock Molag Kena and it happens quite often. Bug well known since release of Imperial City. Just to throw one of the issues out there.

Kidgangster101 · April 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This. Many players have been very vocal across various media about what we want, don't want and are willing to pay for.

No one asked for a card game.

Definitly saw tavern games being ask a few time
So yes there was people asking for this, like ot or not

There has been legions of posts & people asking for new classes, skill lines and functioning pvp systems, when will they finally get heard? Nah lets listen to the 6 people asking for tavern mini games because our MMO cannot handle massive new features that the masses want.

We got new classes. We got new skill lines. They are working to improve performance.

I've seen quite a few people over time ask for some type of mini game to be added. That aside the forums is not an accurate data base for what people want in the game. ZoS sends out surveys asking about a variety of things in game and about what people would like to see going forward. I'm guessing those surveys led in big part to this decision.

I probably won't participate beyond an early curiosity but if the card game is well designed I'm sure it will be popular.

The problem with people here (I used to support this game so much but have moved on for over a year now) is new classes do get released...... Once in a while and when they do they are always busted op upon release and or broken upon release. So take what this game has released for classes compared to say final fantasy 14. Every 2 years we get 2-3 jobs added to the game at once. Along with that they release epic storylines that have 5-6 massive zones each and literally create 50+ hours of just the basic story quests. Meanwhile eso barely releases new jobs, they release 1 zone that you have to pay 40 bucks for....... Ff 14 has their expansion for 40 bucks as well.

So in a nutshell no, the devs clearly aren't pushing out nearly what they could to make the game better. Along with all these changes if there is a huge bug in ff14 the game gets a maintenance to fix it. Meanwhile this game has bugs in it from launch...... And they release dlc every freaking time with known bugs or issues. I love this game 100% but just can not justify playing it at all due to poor decisions from their end of not even trying to put out enough content. No lie I purchased elsewhere and I literally beat the main story in 1 sitting i think it took me 4 hours............ So not worth my time to play anymore.

The jobs in FF14 are basically armor sets so ESO provides that with each chapter.

"Since so many people were not 100% satisfied with either the writing of quests nor the rest of the content that got added in the past years, "

These forums make up a very tiny percentage of the player base and in no way provide an accurate indication of what the player base may or may not like. A handful of players here have posted they didn't like the story line. Not near enough to see a trend.

@kargen27 ok so you said ff14 jobs were basically armor sets in this game? Lol no jobs are jobs with actual abilities. Yes eso has a unique armor system compared to other games. But let's look at this...... So many sets in this game can't ever be equiped in high end serious content. Also you say sets are added a few times a each year.

You have to buy their 40 dollar expansion then what 10-15 bucks per month or have eso plus to gain access to that? So now if your not doing eso plus your talking about what 30-45 bucks a year for gear and 3 total dungeons? Once again you are paying for a huge premium for less content.

Ff14 literally gives the updates through the year away for free (savage raids multiple times a year, extreme primal, 1-2 dungeons each time they update, 3 24 man raids each cycle). Compared to eso premium.

Also the servers are night and day. I barely lag on ff14. But on eso I leave a town and I'm hit with an incredibly long load time. Or I run into sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many bugs when I try to que into an instance. An enemy has fear I go through the wall and stuck. Some enemies where bugged not showing attacks ect ect ect ect. A new expansion it is reported blast ones is bugged when it's launching on pts..... It took them 1 year to literally fix it and it got released broken.

See the problem is one dev team is passionate enough to make sure everything is fixed while the other dev team take orders from the top to release stuff rather than fix up their game.

And by all means I love the feel of eso (when working) especially pvp. But I got tired of every single little bug or lag that it caused me to leave due to barely anything ever getting fixed. But if something goes wrong with the crown store brb we get an emergency maintenance to fix it fast........ Idk man I'm not a fanboy of the game I literally see it for what it is.

Eso is charging people huge premium prices with very little gameplay because they know they will always have the fanboy of elder scrolls attached to it.

the1andonlyskwex · April 2022

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This. Many players have been very vocal across various media about what we want, don't want and are willing to pay for.

No one asked for a card game.

Definitly saw tavern games being ask a few time
So yes there was people asking for this, like ot or not

There has been legions of posts & people asking for new classes, skill lines and functioning pvp systems, when will they finally get heard? Nah lets listen to the 6 people asking for tavern mini games because our MMO cannot handle massive new features that the masses want.

We got new classes. We got new skill lines. They are working to improve performance.

I've seen quite a few people over time ask for some type of mini game to be added. That aside the forums is not an accurate data base for what people want in the game. ZoS sends out surveys asking about a variety of things in game and about what people would like to see going forward. I'm guessing those surveys led in big part to this decision.

I probably won't participate beyond an early curiosity but if the card game is well designed I'm sure it will be popular.

The problem with people here (I used to support this game so much but have moved on for over a year now) is new classes do get released...... Once in a while and when they do they are always busted op upon release and or broken upon release. So take what this game has released for classes compared to say final fantasy 14. Every 2 years we get 2-3 jobs added to the game at once. Along with that they release epic storylines that have 5-6 massive zones each and literally create 50+ hours of just the basic story quests. Meanwhile eso barely releases new jobs, they release 1 zone that you have to pay 40 bucks for....... Ff 14 has their expansion for 40 bucks as well.

So in a nutshell no, the devs clearly aren't pushing out nearly what they could to make the game better. Along with all these changes if there is a huge bug in ff14 the game gets a maintenance to fix it. Meanwhile this game has bugs in it from launch...... And they release dlc every freaking time with known bugs or issues. I love this game 100% but just can not justify playing it at all due to poor decisions from their end of not even trying to put out enough content. No lie I purchased elsewhere and I literally beat the main story in 1 sitting i think it took me 4 hours............ So not worth my time to play anymore.

The jobs in FF14 are basically armor sets so ESO provides that with each chapter.

"Since so many people were not 100% satisfied with either the writing of quests nor the rest of the content that got added in the past years, "

These forums make up a very tiny percentage of the player base and in no way provide an accurate indication of what the player base may or may not like. A handful of players here have posted they didn't like the story line. Not near enough to see a trend.

@kargen27 ok so you said ff14 jobs were basically armor sets in this game? Lol no jobs are jobs with actual abilities. Yes eso has a unique armor system compared to other games. But let's look at this...... So many sets in this game can't ever be equiped in high end serious content. Also you say sets are added a few times a each year.

You have to buy their 40 dollar expansion then what 10-15 bucks per month or have eso plus to gain access to that? So now if your not doing eso plus your talking about what 30-45 bucks a year for gear and 3 total dungeons? Once again you are paying for a huge premium for less content.

Ff14 literally gives the updates through the year away for free (savage raids multiple times a year, extreme primal, 1-2 dungeons each time they update, 3 24 man raids each cycle). Compared to eso premium.

Also the servers are night and day. I barely lag on ff14. But on eso I leave a town and I'm hit with an incredibly long load time. Or I run into sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many bugs when I try to que into an instance. An enemy has fear I go through the wall and stuck. Some enemies where bugged not showing attacks ect ect ect ect. A new expansion it is reported blast ones is bugged when it's launching on pts..... It took them 1 year to literally fix it and it got released broken.

See the problem is one dev team is passionate enough to make sure everything is fixed while the other dev team take orders from the top to release stuff rather than fix up their game.

And by all means I love the feel of eso (when working) especially pvp. But I got tired of every single little bug or lag that it caused me to leave due to barely anything ever getting fixed. But if something goes wrong with the crown store brb we get an emergency maintenance to fix it fast........ Idk man I'm not a fanboy of the game I literally see it for what it is.

Eso is charging people huge premium prices with very little gameplay because they know they will always have the fanboy of elder scrolls attached to it.

If you're going to bring the price of ESO DLC/expansions into your comparison, you should probably also discuss FF14's $160/year subscription fee.

Wolfpaw · April 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

What players want, the few or many, doesn't really matter. What works from this genre past and current is the solution to growth, profit, and staying relevant.

1. Good performance for end game PvE & PvP.
2. New classes, skill lines, & races.
3. Rewards/loot worthy of players time.
4. Fix bugs.
5. Older game systems/travel/skills updated & balance

& of course the casual/new systems like overland, quests/story, housing, companions, events, mini games, etc...and that's the problem.

ESO has been getting years of casual/new mini systems content and it's getting stale.

To paraphrase an old yankee president: Read my lips. No new races.

Yup I have heard that across mmorpg's, "we will never get X", and we do every time.

alberichtano · April 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

What players want, the few or many, doesn't really matter. What works from this genre past and current is the solution to growth, profit, and staying relevant.

1. Good performance for end game PvE & PvP.
2. New classes, skill lines, & races.
3. Rewards/loot worthy of players time.
4. Fix bugs.
5. Older game systems/travel/skills updated & balance

& of course the casual/new systems like overland, quests/story, housing, companions, events, mini games, etc...and that's the problem.

ESO has been getting years of casual/new mini systems content and it's getting stale.

To paraphrase an old yankee president: Read my lips. No new races.

Yup I have heard that across mmorpg's, "we will never get X", and we do every time.

Yeah. Eight years and no new races or weapons. You can wait if you want, but you will keep being disappionted. New classes and skill lines sure, but races and weapons won't happen.

karekiz · April 2022

I mean Golden saucer in FF14 is well liked so /shrug.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2022

RisenEclipse wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This. Many players have been very vocal across various media about what we want, don't want and are willing to pay for.

No one asked for a card game.

Yes, a card game was asked. Tavern games were requested as a feature for a few years now. So your point is false...

I even remember when mini games like horse racing were brought up by ZOS as a potential update

Jimbru · April 2022

What I want really doesn't matter anymore even though I have sank probably thousands of dollars into this game over the years. I have cancelled my ESO Plus, though it still has a few months left. I will be logging in to do daily things and say hello, but for now I am stepping back and taking a break.

- Update 33 was a mess, and the early look at 34 seems just as bad.
- I don't like hybridization of everything.
- I don't want a card game while ZOS ignores a whole list of other things players have wanted for years. New classes, central trading, cloaks et al.
- I'm tired of my PC being saddled with this rat assed console interface where I can't turn in place without moving and my crosshairs target things that aren't even in front of me.
- Most of all, I'm tired of the relentless predatory march of microtransactions that you HAVE to buy and events that you HAVE to do or you might not ever see those items again.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2022

Jimbru wrote: »

What I want really doesn't matter anymore even though I have sank probably thousands of dollars into this game over the years. I have cancelled my ESO Plus, though it still has a few months left. I will be logging in to do daily things and say hello, but for now I am stepping back and taking a break.

- Update 33 was a mess, and the early look at 34 seems just as bad.
- I don't like hybridization of everything.
- I don't want a card game while ZOS ignores a whole list of other things players have wanted for years. New classes, central trading, cloaks et al.
- I'm tired of my PC being saddled with this rat assed console interface where I can't turn in place without moving and my crosshairs target things that aren't even in front of me.
- Most of all, I'm tired of the relentless predatory march of microtransactions that you HAVE to buy and events that you HAVE to do or you might not ever see those items again.

Sorry but you absolutely don't HAVE to buy anything from the crown store to enjoy the game. Also not everything is going to cater to your wants. I know plenty of people excited for the game, myself included. I would also love a new class but I can accept that we won't get one every year or every other year. Also it has already been established that cloaks do not work in this engine so they won't be added. They were a thing in the early betas but were removed.

Kidgangster101 · April 2022

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This. Many players have been very vocal across various media about what we want, don't want and are willing to pay for.

No one asked for a card game.

Definitly saw tavern games being ask a few time
So yes there was people asking for this, like ot or not

There has been legions of posts & people asking for new classes, skill lines and functioning pvp systems, when will they finally get heard? Nah lets listen to the 6 people asking for tavern mini games because our MMO cannot handle massive new features that the masses want.

We got new classes. We got new skill lines. They are working to improve performance.

I've seen quite a few people over time ask for some type of mini game to be added. That aside the forums is not an accurate data base for what people want in the game. ZoS sends out surveys asking about a variety of things in game and about what people would like to see going forward. I'm guessing those surveys led in big part to this decision.

I probably won't participate beyond an early curiosity but if the card game is well designed I'm sure it will be popular.

The problem with people here (I used to support this game so much but have moved on for over a year now) is new classes do get released...... Once in a while and when they do they are always busted op upon release and or broken upon release. So take what this game has released for classes compared to say final fantasy 14. Every 2 years we get 2-3 jobs added to the game at once. Along with that they release epic storylines that have 5-6 massive zones each and literally create 50+ hours of just the basic story quests. Meanwhile eso barely releases new jobs, they release 1 zone that you have to pay 40 bucks for....... Ff 14 has their expansion for 40 bucks as well.

So in a nutshell no, the devs clearly aren't pushing out nearly what they could to make the game better. Along with all these changes if there is a huge bug in ff14 the game gets a maintenance to fix it. Meanwhile this game has bugs in it from launch...... And they release dlc every freaking time with known bugs or issues. I love this game 100% but just can not justify playing it at all due to poor decisions from their end of not even trying to put out enough content. No lie I purchased elsewhere and I literally beat the main story in 1 sitting i think it took me 4 hours............ So not worth my time to play anymore.

The jobs in FF14 are basically armor sets so ESO provides that with each chapter.

"Since so many people were not 100% satisfied with either the writing of quests nor the rest of the content that got added in the past years, "

These forums make up a very tiny percentage of the player base and in no way provide an accurate indication of what the player base may or may not like. A handful of players here have posted they didn't like the story line. Not near enough to see a trend.

@kargen27 ok so you said ff14 jobs were basically armor sets in this game? Lol no jobs are jobs with actual abilities. Yes eso has a unique armor system compared to other games. But let's look at this...... So many sets in this game can't ever be equiped in high end serious content. Also you say sets are added a few times a each year.

You have to buy their 40 dollar expansion then what 10-15 bucks per month or have eso plus to gain access to that? So now if your not doing eso plus your talking about what 30-45 bucks a year for gear and 3 total dungeons? Once again you are paying for a huge premium for less content.

Ff14 literally gives the updates through the year away for free (savage raids multiple times a year, extreme primal, 1-2 dungeons each time they update, 3 24 man raids each cycle). Compared to eso premium.

Also the servers are night and day. I barely lag on ff14. But on eso I leave a town and I'm hit with an incredibly long load time. Or I run into sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many bugs when I try to que into an instance. An enemy has fear I go through the wall and stuck. Some enemies where bugged not showing attacks ect ect ect ect. A new expansion it is reported blast ones is bugged when it's launching on pts..... It took them 1 year to literally fix it and it got released broken.

See the problem is one dev team is passionate enough to make sure everything is fixed while the other dev team take orders from the top to release stuff rather than fix up their game.

And by all means I love the feel of eso (when working) especially pvp. But I got tired of every single little bug or lag that it caused me to leave due to barely anything ever getting fixed. But if something goes wrong with the crown store brb we get an emergency maintenance to fix it fast........ Idk man I'm not a fanboy of the game I literally see it for what it is.

Eso is charging people huge premium prices with very little gameplay because they know they will always have the fanboy of elder scrolls attached to it.

If you're going to bring the price of ESO DLC/expansions into your comparison, you should probably also discuss FF14's $160/year subscription fee.

@the1andonlyskwex

Let's be real most players are doing eso+ which is what 15 a month? Ff14 sub is 12 a month so on a yearly basis ff14 is actually less than eso......... And actually fixes stuff and isn't built on spaghetti code. Their latest update actually just literally rehauled pvp and guess what? It's actually really good and unique. And guess what else? They have a 72 man pvp area and it doesn't really lag...... Lol

If you don't have eso+ the. It's a bit cheaper buying the dlcs as they launch...... But then your inventory is trash because they tie a critical part of the game behind eso plus because they know very well if that loot bag and double inventory space were available another way they would lose out on so many eso plus subs.

So yeah again I absolutely loved eso at launch and stuck with it for a lot of years. I continue to check the forums to see if it actually improves and if I'm ready to come back and the Answer is always no. I see the same things complained about since 5 years ago........... 5 years and they haven't figured out to fix a lot of these bugs/load times/lag........

grizzledcroc · April 2022

Echo chambers sure love acting like they are the voice of everyone lmao.

Jhava · April 2022

-

Wolfpaw wrote: »

What players want, the few or many, doesn't really matter. What works from this genre past and current is the solution to growth, profit, and staying relevant.

1. Good performance for end game PvE & PvP.
2. New classes, skill lines, & races.
3. Rewards/loot worthy of players time.
4. Fix bugs.
5. Older game systems/travel/skills updated & balance

& of course the casual/new systems like overland, quests/story, housing, companions, events, mini games, etc...and that's the problem.

ESO has been getting years of casual/new mini systems content and it's getting stale.

You make perfectly good points. However all the things at the end you claim are problems, those are the exact things i want in the game, and the reason i keep playing.

Wolfpaw · April 2022

Jhava wrote: »

-

Wolfpaw wrote: »

What players want, the few or many, doesn't really matter. What works from this genre past and current is the solution to growth, profit, and staying relevant.

1. Good performance for end game PvE & PvP.
2. New classes, skill lines, & races.
3. Rewards/loot worthy of players time.
4. Fix bugs.
5. Older game systems/travel/skills updated & balance

& of course the casual/new systems like overland, quests/story, housing, companions, events, mini games, etc...and that's the problem.

ESO has been getting years of casual/new mini systems content and it's getting stale.

You make perfectly good points. However all the things at the end you claim are problems, those are the exact things i want in the game, and the reason i keep playing.

I didn't mean those things were a problem for the game, or shouldn't be done, that a balance is needed for a healthy game and community.

ESO needs PvP & PvE endgame support and performance, just like this game needs that casual stuff also to be successful.

New classes, skill lines, races, new weapon types, travel/skill updates (at least weaker morphs will see some update), substantial rewards, performance updates, pvp luv (ZoS really can't make ONE of their major updates a year solely for pvp?), etc...

SerasWhip · April 2022

Pevey wrote: »

How do you know what the entire community wants? I want the new content. It looks great to me. If they fixed all bugs and instability but added nothing new, I would get bored and leave. Everyone has their own opinions.

We know what the community wants based on the overwhelmingly negative response to the new content.

EozZoe1989 · April 2022

I LIKE THE CARD GAME.. PEOPLE JUST DONT LIKE NEW.. sorry to say but its true alot people in the past .. hated idea more maps lol and others for new classes or less on that too .. but still there's always going to be them people trolling too.. and also the moaning ones.. look at twitch chat,, holy wow.. lets just say all streamers get all them memes and all the people trolling.. also emojis all over the joint,, its like wow.. dam cool and woot.. its not bad.. its fun to some .. but then we have things happening that make it hard to make the game good.. it turns out people who trolling making hard for company's to realise a game or dlc sometimes because the trolls are being taken too serious.. and then the game cancels or the movies,. like oo its bad we need to stop that movie or that season.. then people like why and it was all because the trolls.. but.. how we know true or not these days.. no one knows the truth lol..
but can tell you this alot streamers have been saying they don't know why people moaning so much it looks cool and they wanna try it.. because its social and makes content.. so that amazing too.. i wanna play with streamers too.. and go agaist people .. in the the card game ,, this sounds amazing..

DagenHawk · April 2022

Is it wrong that I hope they monetize the living hell out of the card game just so certain peoples heads will explode?

Yes it's wrong... bad... bad DagenHawk

Personally I thought the PVP end game in a TES MMO was the single most unintelligent move in MMO history....I didn't go around spouting that my opinion was everyone else's opinion.

I let people enjoy things and kept my big fat opinion to myself.

Remathilis · April 2022

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

TheImperfect · April 2022

I'd love firstly a new race to play. Then a new Magicka weapon skill line. New classes especially articifer/dwemer or Clockwork engineer. Some way of finding hidden secrets in the world, things unique to your character, one offs that may also provide lore that give something unique to you.

Hapexamendios · April 2022

Performance issues aside, I'd like to have the ability to search the guild trader for recipes, furniture plans, motifs etc that I haven't learned.

essi2 · April 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This. Many players have been very vocal across various media about what we want, don't want and are willing to pay for.

No one asked for a card game.

Eh, there were definitely requests for card games and other mini games. Maybe not as the only new feature of the Chapter, true, but people have been asking.

I blame The Witcher.

I blame Might and Magic 7.

Charon_on_Vacation · April 2022

the problem is, that outsourcing a mini game and selling it as a main feature is A LOT less work at MINIMAL costs.
they could either fix the issues or produce hundreds of those mini games, so they go with the mini games, because they know how to do that and its very budget friendly.
you will never get the fixes you want, because it is too much work.
after all these years, you should just accept it.

_adhyffbjjjf12 · April 2022

here is the problem with ESO, once you get past overland questing you are left with a technically broken endgame with many many layered issues all founded on a poor choice of a game engine.

If its not fixed then when the general populace gets passed all the overland content then they will drift away, and after 8 years we are probably starting to see that happening.

ADarklore · April 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

Regarding bolded section... skill points aren't an issue anymore now that armories have been introduced. Because you can just have armories that you switch to whenever you want to do a particular activity or build. For NEW players this might be the case, but GRIND is part of an MMO regardless of new features or not... but at least the armory system has made the 'skill point to activity' more manageable.

Kidgangster101 · April 2022

ADarklore wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

Regarding bolded section... skill points aren't an issue anymore now that armories have been introduced. Because you can just have armories that you switch to whenever you want to do a particular activity or build. For NEW players this might be the case, but GRIND is part of an MMO regardless of new features or not... but at least the armory system has made the 'skill point to activity' more manageable.

On this note too people thought it was too intensive if a grind because a lot of people don't like the mini games involved from it. You invest skill points into something that you only use under certain circumstances.

If it was a new battle skill line that had moves people could actually use, you definitely see a lot less complaining (unless the moves aren't balanced then people cry they are op/too weak lol)

tomofhyrule · April 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't. [...] Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

This is all true. But people will complain about everything.
- People say they want ZOS to bring new systems, then they whine that those new systems aren't what they want.
- People say they want nothing but bugfixes, but then complain that there's no new content.
- etc.

I know a lot of these are common requests and would bring a lot of people happiness in addition to bringing a lot of whining. But some of these I do see as a net positive.

New Weapon
I see this as a net positive overall. Yes, there will be the "we have to re-farm!!!11!" complaints, but that's actually a good thing - it gets people back into older content. And with Stickerbook, someone who's got it complete really only needs a max of three runs to get the rest of the sets.

A One-hand-and-rune would not need new models added, but they would still have to make the rune in every set so people could go around with full 5-5-2 (or whatever) set styles. They'd also need to make each skill have an associated Arena weapon set as well (DSA, BRP, MA, VH, AS). That's a lot of re-farming we'd have to do - or in ZOS's eyes, a lot of players are going back to older content.

For a new weapon type like Spears, that's also need 100+ new models made with 100+ new style pages. That's a lot more work, but then we've also got the drawback/benefit of people also going back into old zones to farm dailies for motif pages to sell. ZOS could make that a bit easier on us by buffing the drop rate of that page for a month or so to help flood the market, but that would definitely get people back to do things like Murkmire dailies outside of events. I could see them including a few styles every incremental patch so they don't need to come out with all 100+ style pages at once, but maybe every two weeks/month we'd get another 5-10 style pages to go farm.

I know I'd love to see Spears added. I actually think it'd be great to have reasons to go back to old zones and do content, especially the ones where the dailies are so overfarmed that you really get nothing of value from the rewards (how many daily motif pages sell for 2000g or less?). Plus Spears haven't been used since TES3, so it'd be amazing to see them again.

New Class
This is more of a net negative. Without a class change token or a new character slot, something that ZOS has been saying is not possible given their current database architecture, that shuts a lot of people out of playing it unless they delete one of their established characters. Yes, the majority of players (who aren't on these forums) have only one character, or at least fewer than 18, but the ones who have 18 are the ones who have likely been putting in a lot more money to ZOS.

And yes, the DLC classes are a lot easier to make p2w arguments, especially as they both so far have been able to throw out some nice (de)buffs that are unavailable to other classes, to the extent that organized raids basically dictated that they needed one or more of those classes. It does break 'play as you want' if those are required AND only available through external purchase.

I can see why we're not getting more classes anytime soon.

New Races
Mixed bag here, since racial bonuses are not make-or-break for any character beyond the top 0.1% of the 0.1% of players. Also, race-change tokens are available, and ZOS has gifted them before if they make sweeping changes. However, races come with only four passives, so that's not really a sweeping 'new content' thing in the first place. Even the new content that people have pooh-poohed on the forums came with several skill lines and passives, minigames, etc.

The biggest issue here is the lore itself. Dwemer are dead, period end of story. As are the Lilmothiit, Kothringi, Falmer, etc. Yes, other TES games may have had a single survivor due to arcane means, but that's not a general thing. Daedra also are supernatural and don't fit the main story arc. Any of those races would turn off major TES fans, and ZOS has been trying as hard as possible to finally get the "TES is a single player game, I don't want to play WOW!" group in.

The only, only, exception that I could see (and low key actually want to happen) is Maormer. It'd still be tough to fit into the lore, especially in the AD line, but we've seen Maormer all over the game at this point - what is the story with those two in the Dragonguard? But if ZOS wanted to keep them rare, they could release it as a Crown Store race instead of with a Chapter so that people would only buy it if they wanted it.

I know I'd be pissed if ZOS added other new races, but I would be stoked for Maormer. I have a concept for a Maormer character, but the current look I have as a Dunmer just isn't cutting it. I honestly wouldn't mind if they just pulled a CTRL+C CTRL+V on Altmer and then just gave them the Argonian swim speed buff instead of the Altmer XP buff for passives. That would at least give us access to the Maormer skintones (that they already have in game!) and allow us to write our stories. Heck, have them just count as Altmer in all dialogue and PvP slayer achievements so it's not even a required thing, just let us use those pale skins and see 'Maormer' on the login screen.

New Skills
Anyone who's played for ages has skill points coming out of their behinds, and Armory makes it easy to reallocate as necessary. The complaints about 'such a skill point sink!' are baseless.

What isn't is the fact that they need to not be mindless. Psijic was painful since the only way to level it was to do the repetitive fetch-quest questline. There wasn't something like you had for class/weapon skills of 'the skill gains as you get XP!' Ditto the Antiquity lines - they only skill with playing diggy hole, so you have to constantly have a stream of leads incoming (and you only get greens constantly), then you have to go there and dig it up for a pittance of points. And with AwA, this is even more painful since you no longer have the bonus XP from getting achievements anymore.

Notice there are few complaints (relatively fewer, at least - this is the forums after all) about the Summerset Jewelry Crafting line. It's much easier to level up and it doesn't feel like a terrible grind to do so. So if they brought in a skill line, it could be useful as long as it wasn't "do this one thing over 100 times to get the skill XP you need."

But to go back to some pay-to-skip things, these lines should also be available in the Crown Store for people who do want to skip them. I never would since I'd rather spend my time getting the skill line on my own terms, but I know there are a lot of people who would drop a number of Crowns for the Antiquity chest passive without having to grind that on alts.

Lady_Galadhiel · April 2022

Don't speak for the community as whole.
This is what YOU want OP,not everyone who plays ESO shares the same opinion as you.

Lady_Galadhiel · April 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

This so much, people will always complain no matter what.

_adhyffbjjjf12 · April 2022

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

This so much, people will always complain no matter what.

Ah the classic 'people' argument that doesn't seem to comprehend that its different people complaining.

its fairly safe to say 'people' as in the majority do want:

- industry competitive server and code performance
- no down time when patching
- large scale wvw, not the heavily capped nonsense we have today.
- housing that's not object capped to a degree where you cant actually complete large housing (that you pay cash for)
- pve that does not lag or long loading windows.
- PVP that's new player friendly, i.e capped gear and curated builds.
- PVP with a reward system that's engaging and promotes replay, not a daily then done.
- fast turnaround of breaking bugs
- builds that don't rely on you spamming your attack buttons twice a second

'im sure there are others. I certainly would not be empowering ZOS to do nothing by defending their atrocious history, and i'm pretty sure hardly anyone wanted a card game, not to mention a card game grossly inferior to ESL.

VaranisArano · April 2022

Actually, there's a fair chunk of bug fixes and QOL stuff in the base game update for High Isle that ZOS hasn't made a big deal about. Maybe they should.

- added a warning for when an Event Quest will cause you to miss out on Event Tickets due to the cap.
- fixed the Main Quest bug that stops The Tharn Speaks if you have the Elsweyr Prologue Quests active
- fixed the Emperor buff bugs

There's plenty more in the PTS notes but those three hit on a much requested feature, a quest-breaking bug, and a recent PVP issue I've been seeing on the forums. Pretty good showing!

Lady_Galadhiel · April 2022

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

I love when people say they want new skill lines/races/classes/weapons. Because they really don't.

When antiquities (the last new skill line) came into play, people complained it was skill point intensive and it forced people to grind even more for skill points. Any new lines is going to end with people complaining about the grind to level the skill (psijic, antiquities) and the grind to get the skill points.

People complained how the newest classes (Warden and Necromancer) are OP/broken and need balance fixes, esp compared the originals. A new class will just bring up the cacophony of calls to nerf/buff it, along with cries for a class change token.

A new race is going to elicit cries of "where's my race change token?! This race is op. Pay to win!"

And of course, any new weapon skill line that isn't using the existing weapons (such as crossbow, spear, etc) would mean refarming all those set weapons, perfected versions, nirnhoned research,, motifs, etc. They might have some luck with reusing existing weapons (1h and rune, new magic staves) but brand new weapons? Nope.

Players say they want new, meaningful additions like this, but they are the first to cry and wail when it comes out and they have to grind up new content and then scream for it to be nerfed/buffed.

If I were ZoS, I'd make a card game too.

This so much, people will always complain no matter what.

Ah the classic 'people' argument that doesn't seem to comprehend that its different people complaining.

its fairly safe to say 'people' as in the majority do want:

- industry competitive server and code performance
- no down time when patching
- large scale wvw, not the heavily capped nonsense we have today.
- housing that's not object capped to a degree where you cant actually complete large housing (that you pay cash for)
- pve that does not lag or long loading windows.
- PVP that's new player friendly, i.e capped gear and curated builds.
- PVP with a reward system that's engaging and promotes replay, not a daily then done.
- fast turnaround of breaking bugs
- builds that don't rely on you spamming your attack buttons twice a second

'im sure there are others. I certainly would not be empowering ZOS to do nothing by defending their atrocious history, and i'm pretty sure hardly anyone wanted a card game, not to mention a card game grossly inferior to ESL.

Nothing you named has anything to do with being a chapter feature like Companions,a new class such as necromancers or the card game.You can't compare the importance of bug fixes or quality of life improvements with a whole new feature which ZOS wishes to implement with a chapter.
No one wanted companions either but here they are,lots of people complained last year but didnt stop ZOS to release even more of them this year.
Once Necro got added people complained it was an overpowered class, etc,etc.
So yes, no matter what ZOS comes up with as feature of new chapters, there will be always complains.
The card game is surely not everyones cup of tea, but it is nor worse nor better than the companions last year for example.
ZOS has their priorities which seems to be to push out new content each year, and we the costumers,we can vote with our wallets.

That said, I would have prefered ZOS would have dedicated a whole year into bug fixes, server improvements, qol additions,and so on. BUT,then again, people would complain there is no new content for some time.