spartaxoxo wrote: »

Both base game and dlc contain long and short dungeons.

A couple of people have said this, and it's just not true. As a healer in Vet PuGs, at least, the longest base game dungeon is significantly shorter than the average DLC dungeon. There may be a few short-ish DLC dungeons, but there definitely aren't any even moderately long base game dungeons, at least not by DLC dungeon standards.

Things might balance out a bit if you can avoid getting stuck with low DPS DDs (by being one yourself or queueing as a premade), but if that's the case, it's just punishing people for queueing with support builds, which isn't exactly desirable either.

Furthermore, the problem is exacerbated by (fake) tanks that drop as soon as a DLC dungeon pops. This drives up the time to deal with DLC dungeons even more, because you either have to also drop and face a penalty (which is about as long as most non-DLC dungeons take to complete), wait for another tank (which usually takes even longer than dropping), or try to slog through without a tank (which is usually super slow, but also usually worth trying because of the drop penalty and the small chance of actually getting good DDs).

In my experience, base game (vet) dungeons take about 5-20 minutes, while DLC dungeons almost all take at least 20 minutes, with most taking 30-45, and a significant number not even getting completed (because of poor DPS, people not knowing mechanics, and fake tanks).

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Curious, what's a "PVP snipe scammer"?

Someone who joins pve content with their pvp build, usually with a "battleground butcher" title and just spams the snipe skill from way behind the healer, doing no damage, and usually dying if a boss so much as sneezes at them.

Truly though this should be easy to do. Simply make is so that DLC is not recognized and the person who chooses not to queue for DLC is assumed to not have plus for the purpose of dungeons. BUT I don't think they want to do that because too many would queue to avoid DLC.

So what they would be wise to do is to adjust rewards given for which content you run since many are running for transmutes or XP bonus. Base should remain 100k and 10 transmutes. 130k if you opt in for dlc and 12 transmutes. 150k for vet random no dlc and 14 transmutes. 175k for vet with dlc and 16 transmutes. It's not a large difference, but across multiple toons it will make more impact. And enough might decide that overall given that, it's worth it to do DLC at least some of the time if they were disinclined to do it before.

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

You’re ignoring MY point, and that is very simple, NON ESO+ players don’t have to deal with unpopular DLC dungeons and get the same rewards as those that are forced into content they don’t want. If you want to play them, kudos to you, select those dungeons specifically or form your own group.

Not ignoring your point at all. I see it as you are ignoring the points I have brought up as to why the random reward exists. In fact, I am now advocating Zenimax abandon the rewards for doing a random dungeon altogether. Then this issue would no longer exist and the situation is completely resolved.

Seriously, the random reward exists for a reason. If people no longer want to do a random then they should not be getting the random reward. It really is that simple.

Of course, there is a second solution, but it is more complicated for Zenimax to create. Offer a means to opt-out of the DLC dungeons and create a third tier for the random rewards. Those that opt to include DLC dungeons as a possibility would get a superior reward based on the percentage of DLC dungeons they have access to.

This would either be the current purple quality for those who opt-in and have access to all or most DLCs and blue quality for those that opt-out of DLC dungeons. Or the current purple quality would remain for those who do not want to include DLC dungeons and a new gold level reward would be provided to those who opt in based on how many DLC dungeons they have access to. The gold quality reward would be the best option for this idea as it could include a chance for chromium grains or plating.

This creates a win/win situation for everyone and basically is the only way one can have their cake and eat it too. This is an amazing idea. OMG, But again, it would be complicated to implement due to the required sliding scale based on access to the DLC dungeons. So we are back to eliminating the random reward is the best way to make everyone happy, or as happy as this can turn out.

Random queue is fine and should stay as,well... Random!

But if they someday want to add a base game only queue then the rewards should be half.

Or they can also add a queue that people truly want, Random fungal grotto 1 with one crystal and 10k xp as reward!

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

You’re ignoring MY point, and that is very simple, NON ESO+ players don’t have to deal with unpopular DLC dungeons and get the same rewards as those that are forced into content they don’t want. If you want to play them, kudos to you, select those dungeons specifically or form your own group.

Seriously, the random reward exists for a reason. If people no longer want to do a random then they should not be getting the random reward. It really is that simple.

And I am happy to backfill, base game dungeons, like the non-ESO+ players get to, which is my point, that you have ignored again.

I understand the purpose of the random group finder. That’s not my point.

I did not ignore anything. I provided a solution for opting out of the DLC dungeons for doing the random which demonstrates I not only did not ignore your point but directly addressed it with a genius solution. Unfortunately, people would have to go back to my original post to see this as it seems to have been edited out of what you just quoted. I am linking it here so people can easily see the truth of my comment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7566122/#Comment_7566122

But since you do note understanding the purpose of the random GF then this is a moot point since it is clearly to help ensure there are people available for all dungeons. Of course, the better solution is to just remove the reward altogether since it would resolve completely since some seem to want less than random for their random.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

You’re ignoring MY point, and that is very simple, NON ESO+ players don’t have to deal with unpopular DLC dungeons and get the same rewards as those that are forced into content they don’t want. If you want to play them, kudos to you, select those dungeons specifically or form your own group.

Seriously, the random reward exists for a reason. If people no longer want to do a random then they should not be getting the random reward. It really is that simple.

And I am happy to backfill, base game dungeons, like the non-ESO+ players get to, which is my point, that you have ignored again.

I understand the purpose of the random group finder. That’s not my point.

I did not ignore anything. I provided a solution for opting out of the DLC dungeons for doing the random which demonstrates I not only did not ignore your point but directly addressed it with a genius solution. Unfortunately, people would have to go back to my original post to see this as it seems to have been edited out of what you just quoted. I am linking it here so people can easily see the truth of my comment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7566122/#Comment_7566122

But since you do note understanding the purpose of the random GF then this is a moot point since it is clearly to help ensure there are people available for all dungeons. Of course, the better solution is to just remove the reward altogether since it would resolve completely since some seem to want less than random for their random.

Ermagerd, literally, I just want the same random group finder as non subscribers for the same rewards, that is all lol. There is nothing more to it, they don’t have to play the DLCs, neither should I.

Edit: my bad on the quoting, I was trying to minimise to wall of text from us both. Sorry

And the amazing part of my suggestion would provide you with the same reward as someone who doesn’t have access to DLC dungeons. Those with access to the DLC dungeons and willing to include them in their random world deservingly get a better reward scaled to the degree they have access to those dungeons.

It actresses yo ur interests and provides players with an incentive to include the DLC dungeons they have access to.

Everyone wins.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Both base game and dlc contain long and short dungeons.

A couple of people have said this, and it's just not true. As a healer in Vet PuGs, at least, the longest base game dungeon is significantly shorter than the average DLC dungeon. There may be a few short-ish DLC dungeons, but there definitely aren't any even moderately long base game dungeons, at least not by DLC dungeon standards.

City of Ash 2 is just as long as most of the long DLC dungeons. There's only a couple of dlc dungeons longer, like Lair of Maarselok. People keep treating that DLC dungeon as the average dlc dungeon and it's not.

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

You’re ignoring MY point, and that is very simple, NON ESO+ players don’t have to deal with unpopular DLC dungeons and get the same rewards as those that are forced into content they don’t want. If you want to play them, kudos to you, select those dungeons specifically or form your own group.

Seriously, the random reward exists for a reason. If people no longer want to do a random then they should not be getting the random reward. It really is that simple.

And I am happy to backfill, base game dungeons, like the non-ESO+ players get to, which is my point, that you have ignored again.

I understand the purpose of the random group finder. That’s not my point.

I did not ignore anything. I provided a solution for opting out of the DLC dungeons for doing the random which demonstrates I not only did not ignore your point but directly addressed it with a genius solution. Unfortunately, people would have to go back to my original post to see this as it seems to have been edited out of what you just quoted. I am linking it here so people can easily see the truth of my comment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7566122/#Comment_7566122

But since you do note understanding the purpose of the random GF then this is a moot point since it is clearly to help ensure there are people available for all dungeons. Of course, the better solution is to just remove the reward altogether since it would resolve completely since some seem to want less than random for their random.

Ermagerd, literally, I just want the same random group finder as non subscribers for the same rewards, that is all lol. There is nothing more to it, they don’t have to play the DLCs, neither should I.

Edit: my bad on the quoting, I was trying to minimise to wall of text from us both. Sorry

And the amazing part of my suggestion would provide you with the same reward as someone who doesn’t have access to DLC dungeons. Those with access to the DLC dungeons and willing to include them in their random world deservingly get a better reward scaled to the degree they have access to those dungeons.

It actresses yo ur interests and provides players with an incentive to include the DLC dungeons they have access to.

Everyone wins.

So, you’re solution is to make the random group finder only available for DLC/ESO+ owners? Amazing

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons or better remove them hardly anyone do them anyway so they mostly take up space

That's the reason that they absolutely shouldn't split the queue.

Everyone who purchased those items deserve a functional product, they paid for it. That's priority number one for any business. That the people who paid for the product and want to use it, are able to do that.


The random reward is a payment for doing a dungeon you don't want to do. So the people arguing they shouldn't have to do but should still get the reward are asking for a perk.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

I think dlc dungeons should be removed completly from rnd for most wont bother to do it if they see dlc dungeon its just leave and re que anyway most dont seem to want dlc dungeons

And with that Zenimax might as well do away with the random rewards since the reason the rewards are offered in the first place would be greatly diminished.

But then those who are willing to queue for a random would be losing out and players who queued for a specific dungeon would be less likely to get a group for that dungoen (the actual reason a reward for doing a random exists).

This brings us back to the solution Zenimax already provided for those who do not want to do a random. Do not queue for a random and just select the dungeons you are willing to do. It is a choice to queue for a random or not do.

You’re ignoring MY point, and that is very simple, NON ESO+ players don’t have to deal with unpopular DLC dungeons and get the same rewards as those that are forced into content they don’t want. If you want to play them, kudos to you, select those dungeons specifically or form your own group.

Seriously, the random reward exists for a reason. If people no longer want to do a random then they should not be getting the random reward. It really is that simple.

And I am happy to backfill, base game dungeons, like the non-ESO+ players get to, which is my point, that you have ignored again.

I understand the purpose of the random group finder. That’s not my point.

I did not ignore anything. I provided a solution for opting out of the DLC dungeons for doing the random which demonstrates I not only did not ignore your point but directly addressed it with a genius solution. Unfortunately, people would have to go back to my original post to see this as it seems to have been edited out of what you just quoted. I am linking it here so people can easily see the truth of my comment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7566122/#Comment_7566122

But since you do note understanding the purpose of the random GF then this is a moot point since it is clearly to help ensure there are people available for all dungeons. Of course, the better solution is to just remove the reward altogether since it would resolve completely since some seem to want less than random for their random.

Ermagerd, literally, I just want the same random group finder as non subscribers for the same rewards, that is all lol. There is nothing more to it, they don’t have to play the DLCs, neither should I.

Edit: my bad on the quoting, I was trying to minimise to wall of text from us both. Sorry

And the amazing part of my suggestion would provide you with the same reward as someone who doesn’t have access to DLC dungeons. Those with access to the DLC dungeons and willing to include them in their random world deservingly get a better reward scaled to the degree they have access to those dungeons.

It actresses yo ur interests and provides players with an incentive to include the DLC dungeons they have access to.

Everyone wins.

So, you’re solution is to make the random group finder only available for DLC/ESO+ owners? Amazing

Absolutely not. And I never said that. So you don’t have to go back and read what I posted multiple times I will type it again, but just a summary. For more details please review my previous posts.

The random daily would have a means to opt in or out of the DLC dungeons. Everyone gets a reward for doing the random. For those that include the DLCs they would get a superior reward scaled to how many DLC dungeons they have access to.

Everyone gets a reward and there is a further incentive to include the DLC dungeons which is very much in the business interests of Zenimax. A solution along these lines is much more likely to catch the attention of The devs for that reason.

pelle412 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The random daily would have a means to opt in or out of the DLC dungeons. Everyone gets a reward for doing the random. For those that include the DLCs they would get a superior reward scaled to how many DLC dungeons they have access to.

Everyone gets a reward and there is a further incentive to include the DLC dungeons which is very much in the business interests of Zenimax. A solution along these lines is much more likely to catch the attention of The devs for that reason.

So something like this?
1. Random faceroll (3 transmute crystals, 40k xp)
2. Random normal (10 crystals, same xp as today)

That’s one idea for the different rewards. Also, considering chromium has supply outstripped by demand having good Matterials or gold jewelry/weapons to gain Matt’s from deconstruction.

There would have to be a real incentive to do the DLCs if we are offered the choice to opt out of them and still get a reward for doing a random.

Been running a lot of Frost Vault, Black Drake Villa and Stone Garden to complete sticker books there. Frost Vault is probably the longest and can be completed in 5-6 min with a competent group. Only 1-2 min slower than a FG1 and you get much better gear from it plus a chance at a style page. So I can't seem to see the complaint.

If all you want to do is FG1 (and that one is so short because of how easy it is to cheese it and it should not be considered the basis of comparison or the example of base game at all....); then queue in with low level friends or guildees.