Unpopular Opinion: Looking forward to the Card Game

alberichtano · March 2022

Which part are you most excited about, the uber cards that are only purchasable through crown crates or the eternal grind for the lesser cards?

Pardon my cynisism, but I wouldn't have minded a "normal" card game or board game, as in The Witcher, but a collectible card game? It doesn't even make sense in the world. Like "Pokemon" in 11th century Europe or something.

alberichtano · March 2022

Paulytnz wrote: »

When I first heard about the card game I thought "okay cool this might be fun". But now that I have seen it's not a Monster vs Monster battle type and is instead about building up resources or something. I am not so sure it will be all that great. Add to that you pool your cards with your oppnt and both draw from them......it seems it could be a mess, and more luck based than any kind of skill play.

Yes this system may seem like it's going to be a more fair game and not one where who has the best cards win, but still - everything relying on pure RNG/luck is not totally the best answer either.

Yes I am still looking forward to it because it is another game system and may be fun and with whatever rewards are coming with it. I just think it could have been even MORE fun/better if it was not what it's going to be.

Unfortunately ESO LOVES its RNG, luck is by far the most important factor in most things ESO.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · March 2022

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

I think it is an interesting idea, but should in no way be some kind of 'main' feature of an expansion. More like DLC or an extra but not main. Really what are we getting for the expansion? New companions. A map. A card game. Pretty damn lame. That's, frankly, DLC level. Not expansion. Should be included with the price of plus.

Agreed. Very lack luster, but I'll wait and see.
What I have found is yes, "Mini-Games" have been asked for on several occasions.
But what was asked for is table games, ability to bet gold, dice games, chess, frog or horse racing, Lore Friendly games like "Snips and Tails" or "Pin the Tail on the Khjiit", something simple. And "Tales Of Tribute" sound opposite of simple.

Our new CCG game will give us 4 starter decks after you complete the starter quest. We combine 2 of our decks with 2 of opponents, thus kinda killing "deck building" as we know it in other CCG's like MTG.
There is a "Quest StoryLine" with NPC's to teach us to play with achievements attached. (After ruining our playstyle with excuse of needing more space, is this the reason?). And we get a new "Challenge Random Player" UI like our Dungeon Finder UI. And new PvP ranking system.
Rewards will include things such as transmute crystals, unique cards, cosmetics, furnishings, gold, crafting mats and more they will share later.
Exploring the world and complete quests you will unlock "Patron Decks", individual upgrade cards, etc.

That is what we know from Pete and Rich. Yes, I pre-ordered HI even though it looks as I may let my ESO+ expire, but I will at least give it a try. But after all the other "things" going on with UD33 and ZoS's radio silence, I'm not super thrilled with this Chapter in general.
So, how long before they monetize cards and decks in Crown Store I wonder?

alberichtano · March 2022

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

I think it is an interesting idea, but should in no way be some kind of 'main' feature of an expansion. More like DLC or an extra but not main. Really what are we getting for the expansion? New companions. A map. A card game. Pretty damn lame. That's, frankly, DLC level. Not expansion. Should be included with the price of plus.

Agreed. Very lack luster, but I'll wait and see.
What I have found is yes, "Mini-Games" have been asked for on several occasions.
But what was asked for is table games, ability to bet gold, dice games, chess, frog or horse racing, Lore Friendly games like "Snips and Tails" or "Pin the Tail on the Khjiit", something simple. And "Tales Of Tribute" sound opposite of simple.

Our new CCG game will give us 4 starter decks after you complete the starter quest. We combine 2 of our decks with 2 of opponents, thus kinda killing "deck building" as we know it in other CCG's like MTG.
There is a "Quest StoryLine" with NPC's to teach us to play with achievements attached. (After ruining our playstyle with excuse of needing more space, is this the reason?). And we get a new "Challenge Random Player" UI like our Dungeon Finder UI. And new PvP ranking system.
Rewards will include things such as transmute crystals, unique cards, cosmetics, furnishings, gold, crafting mats and more they will share later.
Exploring the world and complete quests you will unlock "Patron Decks", individual upgrade cards, etc.

That is what we know from Pete and Rich. Yes, I pre-ordered HI even though it looks as I may let my ESO+ expire, but I will at least give it a try. But after all the other "things" going on with UD33 and ZoS's radio silence, I'm not super thrilled with this Chapter in general.
So, how long before they monetize cards and decks in Crown Store I wonder?

Faster than the speed of love, if I may quote Brian Griffin here.

SeaGtGruff · March 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

So, how long before they monetize cards and decks in Crown Store I wonder?

Faster than the speed of love, if I may quote Brian Griffin here.

I would tend to think "Never," because never before have things related to stuff introduced by chapters been monetized in the Crown Store. Well, except for when a chapter got demoted to a DLC and new players must purchase an upgrade in the Crown Store to unlock that new stuff, such as needing to buy the Warden and Necromancer classes. But with the more recent stuff that got added by chapters, there have been zero things that we've had to buy in the Crown Store.

Companions, added by Blackwood -- There have been zero high-end companion gear or high-powered companion skills sold in the Crown Store.

Antiquities, added by Greymoor -- There have been zero leads for high-powered mythic items sold in the Crown Store.

WrathOfInnos · March 2022

A card game could have been a bonus feature, but it's not enough to serve as the main system of a chapter. I felt the same way about companions in Blackwood, but this is somehow worse. Every year we reach a new low for content... is it too much to ask for chapters like Morrowind, Summerset or Elsweyr?

This seems to be aimed at attracting new players that enjoy card games, but players that enjoy ESO don't get anything new. No class, no skills, no weapons, no crafting. I hope I'm wrong and there's more planned that hasn't been announced, but I'm not holding my breath.

FrancisCrawford · March 2022

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I actually really enjoy card games. I loved playing Gwent. I enjoyed Hearthstone, and I enjoyed playing Legends. Since they stopped updating or doing anything with Legends, I am excited to see that there will be a new card game in ESO. To me, it will be a nice thing to do when I take a break from PvE content.

But personally I AM kinda meh about the whole, if you have cards that the other person doesn't, both decks are combined to make things equal. The whole point of card collecting is to have cards your opponent doesn't have, and have the advantage over them. I think they should reconsider that one before release.

Maybe it will be clearer when the PTS drops, but has anybody identified ANY benefit to card collecting?

Cadbury · March 2022

I'm hoping that we'll see some card building strat videos from our ESO streamers.

peacenote · March 2022

I'm not upset because it isn't "what I wanted." I'm upset that we were told "no new major systems" while performance is addressed, and then shortly afterwards all of my character's histories were erased and a card game that is clearly integrated throughout ESO, and was a lot of effort to make (in other words... "a major system") was announced.

I didn't want and wasn't expecting anything in particular but giving me something new with likely a lot of achievements while deleting a ton of my achievement data is not ok.

I feel more and more lately like I lost my eight years of data for someone's passion project.. something that might be cool or fun if it was a pure addition and didn't feel like a "trade."

I will retract my statement if the card game is rolled out with minimal to zero achievements.

Rogue_WolfESO · March 2022

I can't wait to see how badly it messes up what is left of the game.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2022

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Since the rest of the games is broken, a card game may be all we have.

If the rest of the game is any indication your client will crash when you shuffle the deck between players.

jaws343 · March 2022

I think it has potential. But one part of the announced implementation seems a bit misguided. The deck mixing at the start of a match.

If the deck I build has zero impact on the game I am playing because it is being mixed with my opponents deck anyways, what incentive do I have to even try to build a deck? And how will whatever deck I build add to my chances of success in a match?

I think those two questions are vital to the success of this game. If any efforts to build a deck are fruitless, the game will likely seem fairly lackluster. One of the great things about deck based games is how your creativity can lead to success. Imagine how bad MTG would be if you had to shuffle your deck with your opponent's deck.

Vaoh · March 2022

I would’ve rather had mudcrab racing PvP tournaments over this card game....

Cadbury · March 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

I think it has potential. But one part of the announced implementation seems a bit misguided. The deck mixing at the start of a match.

If the deck I build has zero impact on the game I am playing because it is being mixed with my opponents deck anyways, what incentive do I have to even try to build a deck? And how will whatever deck I build add to my chances of success in a match?

I think those two questions are vital to the success of this game. If any efforts to build a deck are fruitless, the game will likely seem fairly lackluster. One of the great things about deck based games is how your creativity can lead to success. Imagine how bad MTG would be if you had to shuffle your deck with your opponent's deck.

I assume this is intended to make it fair and balanced for newbie and vet players alike. This makes it less likely to be P2W as both players are now equal. I'm not hip to the whole card battle scene, so I'm not sure going forward how this will play out.

This does put an interesting spin on any future card battle tournaments they may have planned.

redlink1979 · March 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

(...) I think many people here were blinded by not getting what they've wanted that they can't think about how neat this might be.(...)

It can be neat? It depends if you like it or not. Even despite being a huge ES fan I never played ES Legends - card games were never my thing and never will be.
Expecting something else? Yes I was. So, I'm just disappointed on one hand to see ZOS pushing a ES legends v2.0 to the ESO player base and on other hand I see bugs still unaddressed despite all the feedback provided by the players.

Sylvermynx · March 2022

I wasn't "expecting" anything - I never do. I though the reveal trailer was very interesting, but I didn't come up with any silly "expectations" from it like many did.

I've never been interested in card games of any kind inside FRPGs/MMOs. The only reason for buying the chapter ahead of release for me will be if we get something free by doing so - like the Antiquarian's Gallery house.

noblecron · March 2022

Looking forward to it also. Been wanting a kind of mini game in ESO for a while XD. Wish more games had mini games in it XD

Destai · March 2022

I'm looking forward to hearing more, but cautiously optimistic. If it becomes some over-monetized thing, then I won't bother with it. It could be a fun system though and breathe some much needed life into taverns and RP activities.

Tornaad · March 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

Also unpopular opinion, I think many people here were blinded by not getting what they've wanted that they can't think about how neat this might be.

The more I think about it the more fun I believe I'm going to have. Building a deck, walking into Taverns, which we otherwise have had no reason to visit, to challenge others. It's giving me seriously nostalgia to my childhood when I wished I had gone to the local card shop more when they hosted tourneys for Pokemon and YuGiOh.

Yes, I'm also not getting what I've been wishing for, but this just may still be fun in its way.

While I feel I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, I am also saddened that someone might feel that looking forward to the card game is an unpopular opinion.

Elvenheart · March 2022

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Since the rest of the games is broken, a card game may be all we have.

If the rest of the game is any indication your client will crash when you shuffle the deck between players.

And random cards will mysteriously vanish the decks 🤣

moleculardrugs · March 2022

Honestly, it's a chance to PvP. If it's PvP I am in and I will do it just for the sake of beating people because of my highly competitive nature

Paralyse · March 2022

I'm heavily invested into Hearthstone ranked Wild ladder play at a moderately competitive level (to the tune of over $3,000 or more since live launch and over 90% card completion out of 3,500+ cards not including golden / diamond versions.) I usually try to play at least 15-20 hours per week minimum just to stay caught up on daily/weekly quests and reward track levels and rank up on the ladder.

(If you think ESO metas for builds change frequently, Hearthstone metas for deck builds/comps can and do change as often as every week sometimes at higher levels of play. A very OP deck that might hit 70% win rate one week could drop down to 40% next week as players adapt and build "counter" decks.)

Because of that I have no desire to play any other CCG's in any form anywhere for now. While an in-game CCG would be fine with me, I am not going to be super happy if any kind of unique reward system is tied to it. If anything, it should be for fun only and maybe achievements.

Vevvev · March 2022

I'm more concerned about what kind of card game it'll be than the fact we're getting a card game. I actually enjoy card games, but they have to be well done, and this deck splitting thing sounds... questionable.

Lixiviant · March 2022

I enjoyed Gwent and hope that the game is similar. Would be nice!

SeaGtGruff · March 2022

With regard to combining and splitting the decks, I can see how it would help even the playing field so veterans can't trounce noobs just because they've got "better" cards.

I can also understand-- without actually agreeing with-- the way some players might resent this. But aside from evening the playing field and somewhat "handicapping" players with "much better" decks than other players, it seems to me that there are a few potential benefits:

Noobs who have only "starter" decks won't need to feel afraid to play against veterans with "super-powered" decks.

Veterans who are concerned about "sharing" their cards with other players and thereby having a reduced chance of drawing their own "super-powered" cards will perhaps be encouraged to seek out other veterans with similar decks to play against, instead if deliberately seeking out noobs who they think will be pushovers.

And players of any level might be encouraged to play against other players of any level who hapoen to have different decks than they do, for the chance to possibly draw any new "must-have" cards they haven't collected yet and see how they work out in competitive play.

Besides, I can assure you from my own attempts at TES:Legends that having "awesome" cards in your deck doesn't mean you will actually have the skilks to play them when and how you "should," meaning to their best advantage.

jaws343 · March 2022

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

With regard to combining and splitting the decks, I can see how it would help even the playing field so veterans can't trounce noobs just because they've got "better" cards.

I can also understand-- without actually agreeing with-- the way some players might resent this. But aside from evening the playing field and somewhat "handicapping" players with "much better" decks than other players, it seems to me that there are a few potential benefits:

Noobs who have only "starter" decks won't need to feel afraid to play against veterans with "super-powered" decks.

Veterans who are concerned about "sharing" their cards with other players and thereby having a reduced chance of drawing their own "super-powered" cards will perhaps be encouraged to seek out other veterans with similar decks to play against, instead if deliberately seeking out noobs who they think will be pushovers.

And players of any level might be encouraged to play against other players of any level who hapoen to have different decks than they do, for the chance to possibly draw any new "must-have" cards they haven't collected yet and see how they work out in competitive play.

Besides, I can assure you from my own attempts at TES:Legends that having "awesome" cards in your deck doesn't mean you will actually have the skilks to play them when and how you "should," meaning to their best advantage.

My biggest issue is that, while the deck sharing aspect does even the playing field somewhat, it doesn't really account for skill. It's definitely still impossible to gauge the impact a deck build will have on a game between two players, and how sharing will bring those players closer together. But, even without knowing how exactly the game is played, I see zero incentive to build a deck beyond the base deck that is provided, if I am just going to share that deck with the other player. Like great, I've spent hours and hours to hunt down cards and make this really cool deck that is just completely wiped out the moment I actually go to use the deck. It just doesn't make sense.

What would be a far better match making route would be to have players paired off based on the complexity of their decks, maybe using specific cards to indicate that. And for "dueling" deck disparity would be mostly irrelevant because the two players are making a choice to compete against one another directly.

It'll definitely be interesting to see what the mechanics of this game are and how deck building plays into that, but from the onset, the idea sounds like a nice step, but the proposed implementation just seems off.

JKorr · March 2022

Not really interested in the card game. There are other things I want to do in the game, if the game allows me to do them, that is. Getting quests shut off because you did them with an earlier character is NOT improving my gaming experience. Having to scrounge around to build a deck, or questing....my option is never going to be doing a lot of grinding to get cards to do a lot of grinding to get a payout maybe. I'd rather do the quests and see the stories.

SeaGtGruff · March 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Like great, I've spent hours and hours to hunt down cards and make this really cool deck that is just completely wiped out the moment I actually go to use the deck.

Half wiped out is not completely wiped out.

But as I suggested, players who are concerned about not being able to play with the really cool cards they've collected might be incentivized to seek out other players with similar decks to compete against, to increase the chances that they'll be able to draw the really cool cards they want to play with.

Malthorne · March 2022

ZOS could put poop on a platter, call it the main feature, and someone would say they are looking forward to it.

Paulytnz · March 2022

2 More reasons I think they added the sharing of deck thing:

1 - Speed the game up - I am expecting games to be very quick, and not like in ESO Legends where games could go for 30 mins+

2 - Combat people who build decks to "troll" other players by dragging the game out longer than necessary which was another problem in ESO Legends.

If you play against such a player and get some of their annoying cards, you can simply not use them or there may be other mechanics to destroy them or trade for one of your cards etc.

It certainly is going to be interesting to see how it plays. But I do expect the games will be very short, maybe 5-10 mins at most with the 10 being rare.