Random daily dungeon 20 hour timer reset, convenient or inconvenient?

the1andonlyskwex · March 2022

20 hour reset is not inconvenient

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The 20 hour daily actually is the one that lets you get more than 2 in a 48 hour period, as you can get 2 in a 24 hour period if you are fast enough.

Actually it doesn't even work out to that. Technically, yes, but to actually see it as a gain, it would take five days. Let's put it out there for the people who are against daily reset to see, so they see what the benefit is. Let's say you start this timer at 8 pm on Sunday. Here we go:

8 pm Sunday
4 pm Monday
12 pm Tuesday
8 am Wednesday
4 am Thursday
12 am Friday
8 pm Friday
4 pm Saturday

Every day you move that timer to an earlier point. Even potentially missing sleep. Five days of pushing that timer gets you an extra on Friday at 8pm. But the only way you see that extra day is if you screw with your sleep at some point, literally being up at 4 am to do whatever it is.

Now for dungeons, this implies no wait! LOL

So one can with the current system get one extra for the week IF they keep perfectly up with the timers for five days straight. Anything else is just the illusion of getting one extra. Really, all it is until you hit that five day mark of doing them as soon as you can is nothing more than a daily system. Most people would probably miss one, probably the one at 4 am or 12 am due to sleep. Then the bonus goes right out the window.

All true, great analysis. However you can get more than one in a 24 hour period (which as you stated due to shifting timer is like one extra a week) while it's not possible at all with the fixed time. Therefore the comment implying that some people just want extra daily rewards can only apply to the 20 hour timer as the other timer is impossible to manipulate. Doing them all will always result in only 7 for the week, while 20 hour will give 8.

Ugh. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. People don't want to do two dailies in a single day (i.e. less than 20 hours apart) so they can get more total dailies. They want to do two dailies in the same day to work around some other scheduling conflict that would otherwise cause them to fall behind.

Taken to the extreme, it allows people to get all of the dailies and only log in every other day, which isn't really the point of the dailies.

They'd have to login to even pick them up.

Uh...

Login 15 min before reset, do dailies, stay logged in until reset, do more dailies, log off and stay logged off for 47.5 hours, repeat, and never miss a daily.

Yes. But that's still logged in on the two different "days."

Not if the reset is any time other than 12am. The 20 hour reset ensures people are actually logging in daily, and not gaming the system.

spartaxoxo · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The 20 hour daily actually is the one that lets you get more than 2 in a 48 hour period, as you can get 2 in a 24 hour period if you are fast enough.

Actually it doesn't even work out to that. Technically, yes, but to actually see it as a gain, it would take five days. Let's put it out there for the people who are against daily reset to see, so they see what the benefit is. Let's say you start this timer at 8 pm on Sunday. Here we go:

8 pm Sunday
4 pm Monday
12 pm Tuesday
8 am Wednesday
4 am Thursday
12 am Friday
8 pm Friday
4 pm Saturday

Every day you move that timer to an earlier point. Even potentially missing sleep. Five days of pushing that timer gets you an extra on Friday at 8pm. But the only way you see that extra day is if you screw with your sleep at some point, literally being up at 4 am to do whatever it is.

Now for dungeons, this implies no wait! LOL

So one can with the current system get one extra for the week IF they keep perfectly up with the timers for five days straight. Anything else is just the illusion of getting one extra. Really, all it is until you hit that five day mark of doing them as soon as you can is nothing more than a daily system. Most people would probably miss one, probably the one at 4 am or 12 am due to sleep. Then the bonus goes right out the window.

All true, great analysis. However you can get more than one in a 24 hour period (which as you stated due to shifting timer is like one extra a week) while it's not possible at all with the fixed time. Therefore the comment implying that some people just want extra daily rewards can only apply to the 20 hour timer as the other timer is impossible to manipulate. Doing them all will always result in only 7 for the week, while 20 hour will give 8.

Ugh. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. People don't want to do two dailies in a single day (i.e. less than 20 hours apart) so they can get more total dailies. They want to do two dailies in the same day to work around some other scheduling conflict that would otherwise cause them to fall behind.

Taken to the extreme, it allows people to get all of the dailies and only log in every other day, which isn't really the point of the dailies.

They'd have to login to even pick them up.

Uh...

Login 15 min before reset, do dailies, stay logged in until reset, do more dailies, log off and stay logged off for 47.5 hours, repeat, and never miss a daily.

Yes. But that's still logged in on the two different "days."

Not if the reset is any time other than 12am.

Nope. Because the days are the 24 hour period from the reset timer not calendar days

Arunei · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The 20 hour daily actually is the one that lets you get more than 2 in a 48 hour period, as you can get 2 in a 24 hour period if you are fast enough.

Actually it doesn't even work out to that. Technically, yes, but to actually see it as a gain, it would take five days. Let's put it out there for the people who are against daily reset to see, so they see what the benefit is. Let's say you start this timer at 8 pm on Sunday. Here we go:

8 pm Sunday
4 pm Monday
12 pm Tuesday
8 am Wednesday
4 am Thursday
12 am Friday
8 pm Friday
4 pm Saturday

Every day you move that timer to an earlier point. Even potentially missing sleep. Five days of pushing that timer gets you an extra on Friday at 8pm. But the only way you see that extra day is if you screw with your sleep at some point, literally being up at 4 am to do whatever it is.

Now for dungeons, this implies no wait! LOL

So one can with the current system get one extra for the week IF they keep perfectly up with the timers for five days straight. Anything else is just the illusion of getting one extra. Really, all it is until you hit that five day mark of doing them as soon as you can is nothing more than a daily system. Most people would probably miss one, probably the one at 4 am or 12 am due to sleep. Then the bonus goes right out the window.

All true, great analysis. However you can get more than one in a 24 hour period (which as you stated due to shifting timer is like one extra a week) while it's not possible at all with the fixed time. Therefore the comment implying that some people just want extra daily rewards can only apply to the 20 hour timer as the other timer is impossible to manipulate. Doing them all will always result in only 7 for the week, while 20 hour will give 8.

Ugh. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. People don't want to do two dailies in a single day (i.e. less than 20 hours apart) so they can get more total dailies. They want to do two dailies in the same day to work around some other scheduling conflict that would otherwise cause them to fall behind.

Taken to the extreme, it allows people to get all of the dailies and only log in every other day, which isn't really the point of the dailies.

I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect. There is no skipping days with a 24 hour timer and still getting the reward of the day you skipped. I already explained this and then YOU YOURSELF contradict what you're trying to claim by saying someone can stay up to do a daily right after rollover.

People are still logged in on that day to get the reward for doing the daily.

It doesn't matter if they're doing a daily right before rollover and right after, they are still doing two separate dailies on two separate days.

You're trying to say people can do 2 dailies in one day on a 24 hour system so they can skip a day but that is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. If you pick up crafting dailies, you CANNOT PICK UP new crafting dailies until you either abandon or complete your current ones. Even if you pick up the quests and then do them the next day, that'll lock you out of doing that day's. You don't get to pick up the previous day's writs, do them the next day, and then get that day's writs too. The only time that works that way is if you actually crafted the previous day's writs but didn't turn them in. If you turn them in the next day, then you can pick up that day's writs and do them.

But even then that's not skipping a day. You're still doing the previous day's writs and the next day's writs. You cannot do what you're claiming with a 24 hour timer. You can't complete two days' worth of dailies to somehow skip the next day. Even with my example that's not skipping the next day, if anything it would be skipping the previous day.

If anything, the fact that you specifically state that people prefer a timer that helps them avoid scheduling conflicts means inherently the 24 hour reset is the better of the two options. You're trying to claim that this system is worse because...it grants you more flexibility in when you can do any given activity?

And again, a 24 hour system cannot be taken "to extremes". There is absolutely no way to do dailies in a way that lets you skip every other day with a 24 hour reset.

xXSilverDragonXx · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

So the majority should have to suffer through these absurd timers so a few with very wacky schedules get to benefit? Or so that a few who want to get extra can push it to get the extra? What a broken design.

Right now approximately 80% do not like the 20 hr rolling timers and want them to be changed to daily like writs are. And that's not counting several that meant to say they wanted it daily but clicked the wrong box because of the wording. Would probably be closer to 85%. When 85% in a poll want to see a change that would be a major quality of life improvement for them, that really says something about design.

kojou · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

I would prefer if everything was reset at a specific time every day. Things that are based on a 20-24 hour duration should just be removed.

wolfie1.0. · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

I think there may be a misunderstanding as to how daily repeatable quests work. So this post is to clarify. This is to the best of my knowledge after playing for years.

you can only do a daily quest with the same name and quest objectives once per reset period.

Crafting writs and Undaunted Pledges are on a rotation where they change from day X to day Y and repeat every N days. This allows you to pick up up theses quests a few minutes prior to the fixed reset and essentially carry them over to Day Y complete them, then do day Y's objectives.

This is why you can do crafting writs just prior to reset, wait for reset, then do them again. However, if you grab them and hold them for a few days then do them, you may only get an alchemy writ to complete because the quest happened to come back up in rotation.

Also as far as i am aware the 50 daily quest cap still exists. (please correct me if I am wrong on this)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

If it were me, I would make everything reset at the same time for transparency and consistency. I can think of scenarios where each system is theoretically better based on a given situation, but I would prefer one time where everything resets.

Arunei · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I think there may be a misunderstanding as to how daily repeatable quests work. So this post is to clarify. This is to the best of my knowledge after playing for years.

you can only do a daily quest with the same name and quest objectives once per reset period.

Crafting writs and Undaunted Pledges are on a rotation where they change from day X to day Y and repeat every N days. This allows you to pick up up theses quests a few minutes prior to the fixed reset and essentially carry them over to Day Y complete them, then do day Y's objectives.

This is why you can do crafting writs just prior to reset, wait for reset, then do them again. However, if you grab them and hold them for a few days then do them, you may only get an alchemy writ to complete because the quest happened to come back up in rotation.

Also as far as i am aware the 50 daily quest cap still exists. (please correct me if I am wrong on this)

I think it's changed because that's how it used to be, but I've had it happen where I've picked up crafting writs on one day, then did them the very next because I either forgot or had to hop off before I could do them the previous day, and then wound up locked out of that day's writs. They couldn't be the same since like you said they rotate.

And even if I've just had bad luck with it, that's still not skipping days. You're still doing two days' worth of dailies, nothing about the 24 hour system lets you to do two dailies in a way that allows you to skip the next day. You might be able to use the timer to ensure you can complete the previous day's daily and then the current day's one, but again that just shows the 24 hour reset is more flexible and convenient when it comes to getting dailies done than a 20 hour timer does.

Also yeah, there limit on dailies is still 50 per character.

Ilumia · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

I dislike all 20-hour timers. It stresses me, is cumbersome, and I often have to just give up doing what I had wanted if it's 20-hour-timer-stuff, since I play at varying times of day. Sometimes when I'm about to login to play I just think - "wait, can't do daily rnd og bg, I'll just postpone playing", but I end up skipping it all and just collect endeavours because I feel discouraged by a game that isn't accommodating enough.

orgin_stadia · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

Give us fixed daily resets!
Give us fixed daily resets!
Give us fixed daily resets!

davidtk · March 2022

I don't mind 20/24h or fixed time reset. Only what i would like have is timer like at mount reset timer. Or be able to track reset. For mounts you have ingame timer on the char.sheet. Why can't have ingame timer under BG/Dungeon Finder? Or at least some addon what will track time when char went to dungeon for more planing (if it really exist can someone share name of it)?

peacenote · March 2022

I read through this whole thread and realized that I am fine with the way things are but probably wouldn't mind if they were changed. If I play during the week I log in evenings (anywhere between 6pm and, say, midnight) and on weekends I play between 7am and noon.

The thing I dislike the most is how events end mid morning in my time zone so it feels like I miss out on event tickets if I don't get up early that day to do the event before it goes away. And that's not something I can do easily during the week. I don't think the timers impact this.

Sarannah · March 2022

20 hour reset is not inconvenient

The current timer is fine, as the 20h timer adjusts to your playtime. This 20h timer also prevents players from missing out on a daily dungeon. Because if the daily dungeon had a hard reset time, the player could miss out on completing the daily dungeon on time. For example when a dungeon takes longer than expected, dungeon finder takes too long to find a group, when groups fall apart, if there is server maintenance interfering with your playtime, if any hard reset time would be placed at an inconvenient time(timezones), or any other thing that might stop/delay a dungeon complete.

Right now there is no ceiling on when to complete a daily dungeon, which is the best possible option for everyone. So no change is needed with the 20h timer, in my opinion.

orgin_stadia · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

Sarannah wrote: »

The current timer is fine, as the 20h timer adjusts to your playtime. This 20h timer also prevents players from missing out on a daily dungeon. Because if the daily dungeon had a hard reset time, the player could miss out on completing the daily dungeon on time. For example when a dungeon takes longer than expected, dungeon finder takes too long to find a group, when groups fall apart, if there is server maintenance interfering with your playtime, if any hard reset time would be placed at an inconvenient time(timezones), or any other thing that might stop/delay a dungeon complete.

Right now there is no ceiling on when to complete a daily dungeon, which is the best possible option for everyone. So no change is needed with the 20h timer, in my opinion.

The 20h timer makes me miss out on rnd's all the time.

Larcomar · March 2022

Are we talking 20 hr vs 24 hr or just a daily reset at 2am or whatever it is?

The 20 hr is nice otherwise youre going to wind up being eligible a little later each day until your not...

But honestly, all these different timers are kind of dumb. I mean, my enlightenement still comes on to the minute the exact time I originalyl hit 50 on my first toon like 3 years ago. No clue if it would save them server space but it would save me time. I have add ons to track them all - rnd, bg, gladiator sack, IC sack, rewards of the worthy etc etc

SteamKitten01 · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

Daily resets on a set 24 hour schedule would be far better option IMO. I work a 9-5 job on weekdays so I'm often doing dungeons after work and dinner on M-F however on weekends, I'm often playing earlier in the day and may have plans for the evening when my dungeon timers reset. It's quite frequent that I miss doing random dungeons on Saturdays due to this timer.

LashanW · March 2022

20 hour reset is not inconvenient

I actually don't mind if they change it.

davidtk wrote: »

I don't mind 20/24h or fixed time reset. Only what i would like have is timer like at mount reset timer. Or be able to track reset. For mounts you have ingame timer on the char.sheet. Why can't have ingame timer under BG/Dungeon Finder? Or at least some addon what will track time when char went to dungeon for more planing (if it really exist can someone share name of it)?

@davidtk
WPamA addon does the job.
https://esoui.com/downloads/info1190-WPamAWhatPledgesatmyAlts.html

spartaxoxo · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

Larcomar wrote: »

Are we talking 20 hr vs 24 hr or just a daily reset at 2am or whatever it is?

The 20 hr is nice otherwise youre going to wind up being eligible a little later each day until your not...

But honestly, all these different timers are kind of dumb. I mean, my enlightenement still comes on to the minute the exact time I originalyl hit 50 on my first toon like 3 years ago. No clue if it would save them server space but it would save me time. I have add ons to track them all - rnd, bg, gladiator sack, IC sack, rewards of the worthy etc etc

The daily reset at 2am (like writs) vs the 20 hour timer (like rnd)

Arunei · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

Sarannah wrote: »

The current timer is fine, as the 20h timer adjusts to your playtime. This 20h timer also prevents players from missing out on a daily dungeon. Because if the daily dungeon had a hard reset time, the player could miss out on completing the daily dungeon on time. For example when a dungeon takes longer than expected, dungeon finder takes too long to find a group, when groups fall apart, if there is server maintenance interfering with your playtime, if any hard reset time would be placed at an inconvenient time(timezones), or any other thing that might stop/delay a dungeon complete.

Right now there is no ceiling on when to complete a daily dungeon, which is the best possible option for everyone. So no change is needed with the 20h timer, in my opinion.

Adjusting to your playtime also restricts you TO that playtime. The 24 timer literally gives you four more hours to get something done and doesn't impact when you can do your daily the next day and the day after that and the day after that.

There IS a ceiling on when you can complete things on any given timer, that being when it resets. A 20 hour timer punishes you if you can't regularly play during the same time every day. A static 24 hour timer doesn't have that problem. A timer that doesn't limit you to playing during certain hours to ensure you can do your dailies is inherently better than one that DOES restrict you to a general schedule.

davidtk · March 2022

LashanW wrote: »

...
@davidtk
WPamA addon does the job.
https://esoui.com/downloads/info1190-WPamAWhatPledgesatmyAlts.html

Super, thank you I will try it

_Medusa_ · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

I think everything should reset at the same time, including all dailies, dungeons, battlegrounds, writs, riding training, etc.

As others pointed it, this would be a huge QoL improvement.

Also, since ZOS is adding Account Wide Achievements to trim the data footprint, this additional step would make a lot of sense.

Vaoh · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

The standard for everything in the game should just be to reset at the global reset time like writs. This makes things easily comprehensible for everyone.

The only exception is maybe crafting hirelings which are on 12 hour intervals (with max passives) but that’s never been an issue.

zaria · March 2022

Daily reset like writs would be more convenient

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Dekundo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

The 20 hour reset system at least affects everyone consistently, regardless of their schedule (i.e. everybody's reset time pretty much corresponds to the times at which they play every day).

Some people cant play every day at the same exact hours because the work schedule can be different.
It's not fair that the game forces you to play at the exact same hours every day, it's a lack of freedom and flexibility.

That's why it's a 20 hour reset and not a 24 hour reset. I think I've given enough examples in my previous posts to show that a fixed reset doesn't magically fix the inconsistent schedule problem.

A fixed daily reset at a good time of day for your schedule may be more convenient than a 20 hour reset, but a fixed daily reset at a bad time of day is pretty much the worst option possible (other than a 24 hour reset). Because people on all sorts of different schedules play ESO, the fairest compromise is the 20 hour reset.

An alternative compromise would be for everything to be on fixed timers, but for all of the timers to reset at different times, so that nobody suffers disproportionately from inconvenient reset times. I don't think many of the people asking for everything to be on a fixed reset would be very happy about that though, because then there would always be something where they regularly miss days.

Say you do an rnd 21:00 Friday evening coming home late, you can not do another until 17:00 on Saturday. you have the entire morning free to play but has to go away during the evening, Sunday is also busy but yo do one rnd late, Monday you have home office and could sneak in one during the morning but still on cool down. Evening is busy, repeat.

Sarannah · March 2022

20 hour reset is not inconvenient

Arunei wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The current timer is fine, as the 20h timer adjusts to your playtime. This 20h timer also prevents players from missing out on a daily dungeon. Because if the daily dungeon had a hard reset time, the player could miss out on completing the daily dungeon on time. For example when a dungeon takes longer than expected, dungeon finder takes too long to find a group, when groups fall apart, if there is server maintenance interfering with your playtime, if any hard reset time would be placed at an inconvenient time(timezones), or any other thing that might stop/delay a dungeon complete.

Right now there is no ceiling on when to complete a daily dungeon, which is the best possible option for everyone. So no change is needed with the 20h timer, in my opinion.

Adjusting to your playtime also restricts you TO that playtime. The 24 timer literally gives you four more hours to get something done and doesn't impact when you can do your daily the next day and the day after that and the day after that.

There IS a ceiling on when you can complete things on any given timer, that being when it resets. A 20 hour timer punishes you if you can't regularly play during the same time every day. A static 24 hour timer doesn't have that problem. A timer that doesn't limit you to playing during certain hours to ensure you can do your dailies is inherently better than one that DOES restrict you to a general schedule.

That only works when the reset would not fall directly into your play time, as that would have the same waiting results as you mention. Lets say someone only has two hours to play each day, and the daily dungeon resets directly halfway through that player's playtime. That means they either have to rush a dungeon to complete one, or they would have to wait till after the reset before even beginning a dungeon and then rush it. Which is much more limiting than the 20h timer, and a disaster for new/newer players(or some DLC dungeons). Yet this is a problem which the 20h timer does not have, as it has no ceiling. Which makes a hard reset time a much worse problem than the slight inconvenience of the 20h timer. Especially for new/newer players and seasoned players with multiple characters.
The ceiling you imagine is imaginary, and is only there if you have huge differences in playtime and only play one character and feel you need to complete the daily dungeon every day on that specific character. With the 20h timer it does not matter how long a dungeon takes, even if it takes three days you can still complete it. There is no ceiling on when you complete one, it only has a bottom-timer on when you can do your next one.

There are most likely more players playing in any given timezone per megaserver, than there are players with only one character affected by hugely differing playtimes with the need to complete a daily dungeon every day. Which makes the 20h timer the best option for everyone. Also in regards to skilllevel, multiple characters, and any dungeoncomplete obstacles. These things also make a hard reset time a much worse problem than the slight inconvenience of the 20h timer.

Not to mention, a hard reset time would make players feel they missed out on a daily dungeon if they did not manage to complete one in time. Which isn't a feeling the 20h timer gives anyone.

Just for the record, I feel this entire discussion is sort of useless as there is no issue with a player missing out on a daily dungeon complete. You could simply run multiple daily dungeons the next day with multiple characters. Another reason which makes the 20h timer more ideal.