Plaguebreaker and the impact it truly has.
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neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been spamming this set on groups and zergs for a week now and have yet to see it nuke anybody.
But! Groups become easier for my teammates to kill. Which I suppose is the purpose of this set. The large AvA fights have to end quicker to avoid massive lag spikes.
Don't disagree with any of your conclusions but I find it funny that we're now trying to avoid lag with gameplay changes instead of fixing the root problems.2 -
Jackey✭✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »I've been spamming this set on groups and zergs for a week now and have yet to see it nuke anybody.
But! Groups become easier for my teammates to kill. Which I suppose is the purpose of this set. The large AvA fights have to end quicker to avoid massive lag spikes.
Don't disagree with any of your conclusions but I find it funny that we're now trying to avoid lag with gameplay changes instead of fixing the root problems.
Yes I agree. Though, Vicious Death was also a bandaid fix for similar issues so I wouldn't say it's something they're trying now, they've just added another layer to it.PS | EU0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The issue with Plaguebreak is that there's no opportunity for counter play.
Personally I really like the idea of sets like Plaguebreak i.e. something which punishes player actions if they do the wrong thing.
A lot of players miss the old Wall of Elements bug from back in the day which this plaguebreak set is essentially a copy of.
HOWEVER the difference is that there was counterplay to this bug. You could use alternative purge methods, you could negate to remove the ground effect and thus allow you to purge safely or you could simply 'Move out' of the WoE area affect.
Plaguebreak has absolutely no counterplay. It just punishes an entire gameplay style and essentially removes purging from the tool kit of any groups (no matter the frequency of use).
Additionally it is exploitable in a way that your own faction can cause you to die by removing debuffs from you or dropping a purify which automatically overwrites any other synergies in your queue (unless you use an addon to prevent this which isn't a good approach to take when you have platforms with no access to them).
Imo. Plaguebreak should drop a large AoE pool on the ground e.g. purify size or springs size which can be moved every 15s This would make it effective at area denial and keep defence and also punish groups who don't react to it, but allow for some counterplay.
Alternatively the explosion radius could be greatly reduced (but i think this lessens the effectiveness and purpose of the set a bit much).
Finally an additional change which imo would be good is self purging shouldn't count towards the explosion, and efficient purge should be changed to a self purge only morph at a reduced cost (if possible the cost would be based off your higher resource, either stam or mag).Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on September 24, 2021 10:57PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)5 -
KingExecration✭✭✭✭I agree this set was poorly implemented. All I log in to play is my Templar and that set is ridiculous. Having no cooldown for it to be reapplied constantly exploding my group members. I just took purify off my bar and added the newest overtuned ability they changed in meditate. Even solo I don’t run purify since those set wearers target plars and wardens.
Another L for magden mains ig2 -
Aldoss✭✭✭✭✭
✭neferpitou73 wrote: »Justice? Come on dude it's a game. People need to seriously chill out about dying in PvP in this game.
Correct, it's a game and people should chill out over getting hit for 40k because a new patch released a new playstyle atmosphere that countered a previously uncounterable playstyle.
I was fine without this set[snip].
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 4:07PM1 -
KingzZVI✭✭✭
[snip] We are voicing an opinion of a set we disagree with. [snip]neferpitou73 wrote: »Justice? Come on dude it's a game. People need to seriously chill out about dying in PvP in this game.
Correct, it's a game and people should chill out over getting hit for 40k because a new patch released a new playstyle atmosphere that countered a previously uncounterable playstyle.
I was fine without this set[snip].
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 4:07PM2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭First off, changing efficient purge to self only will make trials like HoF a bigger pain in the ass because healers won't be able to afford popping it during bosses like the twins.
Secondly purging in pvp is over tuned. Plague is a niche set that isn't being run NEARLY as much as the other new sets. Out of the three it is the best balanced. Not saying it couldn't use some tweaks but it's not out of control.
Also mechanically templars aren't cleansing to with ritual. You're hitting a synergy which means you did it. Just look at the text.
"Allies in the area can activate the Purify synergy, cleansing all harmful effects from themselves..."Edited by DrSlaughtr on September 25, 2021 3:10PMI drink and I stream things.1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »First off, changing efficient purge to self only will make trials like HoF a bigger pain in the ass because healers won't be able to afford popping it during bosses like the twins.
Secondly purging in pvp is over tuned. Plague is a niche set that isn't being run NEARLY as much as the other new sets. Out of the three it is the best balanced. Not saying it couldn't use some tweaks but it's not out of control.
Also mechanically templars aren't cleansing to with ritual. You're hitting a synergy which means you did it. Just look at the text.
"Allies in the area can activate the Purify synergy, cleansing all harmful effects from themselves..."
Just because its Niche doesn't mean its 'balanced'. There is counterplay with Dark Convergence (you can move out or block the pull), theres counterplay with Hrothgar (you can build or use skills to prevent it's application). There is no counterplay with Plague as someone else can cause it to explode on you, you have no control over it.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)3 -
stefj68✭✭✭✭✭maybe that a subject that should be disccused on lives forums, those were part update 31 and nothing to do with update 32
but i feel your pain!
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »First off, changing efficient purge to self only will make trials like HoF a bigger pain in the ass because healers won't be able to afford popping it during bosses like the twins.
Secondly purging in pvp is over tuned. Plague is a niche set that isn't being run NEARLY as much as the other new sets. Out of the three it is the best balanced. Not saying it couldn't use some tweaks but it's not out of control.
Also mechanically templars aren't cleansing to with ritual. You're hitting a synergy which means you did it. Just look at the text.
"Allies in the area can activate the Purify synergy, cleansing all harmful effects from themselves..."
Just because its Niche doesn't mean its 'balanced'. There is counterplay with Dark Convergence (you can move out or block the pull), theres counterplay with Hrothgar (you can build or use skills to prevent it's application). There is no counterplay with Plague as someone else can cause it to explode on you, you have no control over it.
Like I said, not saying it couldn't use a tweak BUT the suggestions from above would cause a whole lot more problems across all game modes.I drink and I stream things.0 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭Your trying to argue against proof?
I dont run in 24 mans lol it was me and 4 other people at nikel between the rocks.You can argue the set all you want thats hitting just as hrothgar and hrothgar got cut in half so it deserves same treatment.That was originally my screenshot. That proc occurred after one of our templars habitually activated ritual to heal on a door after a keep capture (when all of the groups and zergs were running out the door). 40k dmg from one set is ridiculous no matter how you slice it. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the set had an obvious visual aura like inev det, but it doesn't (how do you expect me to find a dull green cloud in the middle of a battle?) The set also has ridiculous potential for abuse, you could easily plant a 2man purge group on another faction that follows groups around and deliberately purges with the effect on them.
Lol. So was the 'proof' "me and 4 other people at nickel between the rocks", or "after a keep capture when all the groups and zergs were running out the door"?2 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭I don't run plaguebreak but i would if the set was any good. Explosion tooltip is around 13-14k (of course you can theory craft an higher tooltip, but good luck investing all into a single situational proc).
1v1 the damage is negligible and as always people are being overdramatic, in a 1v1 situation it was hitting me for 3k. If you get hit for 40k maybe it's time to stop zergsurfing3 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »First off, changing efficient purge to self only will make trials like HoF a bigger pain in the ass because healers won't be able to afford popping it during bosses like the twins.
Secondly purging in pvp is over tuned. Plague is a niche set that isn't being run NEARLY as much as the other new sets. Out of the three it is the best balanced. Not saying it couldn't use some tweaks but it's not out of control.
Also mechanically templars aren't cleansing to with ritual. You're hitting a synergy which means you did it. Just look at the text.
"Allies in the area can activate the Purify synergy, cleansing all harmful effects from themselves..."
Just because its Niche doesn't mean its 'balanced'. There is counterplay with Dark Convergence (you can move out or block the pull), theres counterplay with Hrothgar (you can build or use skills to prevent it's application). There is no counterplay with Plague as someone else can cause it to explode on you, you have no control over it.
Sorry for the double message, but I've just read the your message.
Plaguebreak is really good only if hitting 10+ people, and yeah you have no control over it. But so is vicious, if three people around me are running PvE builds with 20k health i get one shot by their proc. Running in large group already gives you the number advantage and it's nice to have something to even the field0 -
KingzZVI✭✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Your trying to argue against proof?
I dont run in 24 mans lol it was me and 4 other people at nikel between the rocks.You can argue the set all you want thats hitting just as hrothgar and hrothgar got cut in half so it deserves same treatment.That was originally my screenshot. That proc occurred after one of our templars habitually activated ritual to heal on a door after a keep capture (when all of the groups and zergs were running out the door). 40k dmg from one set is ridiculous no matter how you slice it. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the set had an obvious visual aura like inev det, but it doesn't (how do you expect me to find a dull green cloud in the middle of a battle?) The set also has ridiculous potential for abuse, you could easily plant a 2man purge group on another faction that follows groups around and deliberately purges with the effect on them.
Lol. So was the 'proof' "me and 4 other people at nickel between the rocks", or "after a keep capture when all the groups and zergs were running out the door"?
The proof is the screenshot hitting 40k.I was on console and it hit me the same way.
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KingzZVI✭✭✭I made this post to get it noticed and clearly its gotten response and thats what really matters.Whether you agree or disagree these conversations are hopeful to see what we can do about this set
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KingzZVI✭✭✭https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/820886374169313310/892842606445338754/028eb1bf-48ca-4cd3-a1ef-448d43a9cf35.mp4
Proof??Your trying to argue against proof?
I dont run in 24 mans lol it was me and 4 other people at nikel between the rocks.You can argue the set all you want thats hitting just as hrothgar and hrothgar got cut in half so it deserves same treatment.
C mon i m using the set myself and seeing actual numbers. Put here a video where pb hits 40 k to 5 people i promise to insist to nerf set twice more then you. İf pb was hitting 40 k to 5 everyone and their mothers would be using it on cyro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaejuheyVh4 Here you said you would vote to nerf the set twice as much as me 4 people for 40k 3 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The people who defend this set aren't interested in proof or game balance, they just hold a hatred for large groups and enjoy using these broken sets to gain an advantage.
Plenty of screenshots and videos out there showing how broken it is. 44k proc hitting only 5 players.5 -
KingzZVI✭✭✭The people who defend this set aren't interested in proof or game balance, they just hold a hatred for large groups and enjoy using these broken sets to gain an advantage.
Plenty of screenshots and videos out there showing how broken it is. 44k proc hitting only 5 players.
that one is really bad cause i didnt even see them use cleanse, they mustve used there class ability
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Aldoss✭✭✭✭✭
✭The people who defend this set aren't interested in proof or game balance, they just hold a hatred for large groups and enjoy using these broken sets to gain an advantage.
Plenty of screenshots and videos out there showing how broken it is. 44k proc hitting only 5 players.
The video just posted is 3 hits totaling 43k. For the set to do that, 3 people in the group would have had to have PB cleansed at the same time so class ability is out unless they all hit the purify synergy at the same time. You can also see that there are two friendlies in the area, so 7 players likely got hit by each proc, not only 5.
Feel free to correct my math, but this is what I believe happened given my general understanding as to what happened on the back end:
43,608 / 3 = 14,536
x + (x*0.7) = 14,536 ... x = 8550
Battle Spirit... 9691 x 2 = 17100
I have a stamdk using PB that easily gets 6k weapon dmg yielding a 15k tooltip. I've seen as high as 8k weapon dmg in a group, which they were fighting.
I think if you want to discuss a nerf to a set, I think it's important to discuss the actual damage. The set didn't hit for 43k dmg, the situation hit for that much, which was its intention. Viscous Death hits for more, but does 0 dmg unless someone dies.
The cleanse is what makes that proc amazing, but more often than not, wearing that set kind of feels pointless. It barely hits for 5-600 dmg a tick.4 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭
Simple math.. lets say 13 k tooltipthat was 5 of us
Battle spirit 6,5 k
Resist lets say 25 k another %35 decrease to 4,2 k
İf youre using minor or major protection its lover but lets forget about it.
5 people in 8 meters all
%10 increase for each one
Makes 6764 damage
????
To get a 40 k proc you need 24 people in that 8 meters
It says ×2 in the death recap, meaning he was actually hit twice at same time or in short time of both attacks the result in 46k damage, each attack would be around 23k. 23k proc is still high considering that it was only 5 man group.
Even if the tooltip was something like 2k, why do you punishing people for playing the game as it should be done? Player should play in groups as it is safer and easier to kill enemies in group, and even more better if it was coordinated group of people who spend hours daily practicing with each other. Ut us like saying, why trial elitists are able to get high scores while random groups can do that, or why one group can finish vMoL and other can't.
Next time, zos will interduce a set that deals 50% oblivion damage if you forceably break free from stun, or if you dodge roll more than once every 1 min. LmaoEdited by universal_wrath on September 30, 2021 4:38AM2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Plaguebreak is working as intended and is the one set of the 3 new ones that do it well. The purge spam is exactly why a set like Plaguebreak is needed.
And in 1v1 it does pretty much nothing and to almost any situation there would be dozens of better choices for a 5p set.
In reality it has made some big zergy groups stop spamming Purge and thus those groups did actually became "killable" again. Yes their healing still gives big groups the advantage, but when cannot Purge spam - there are some weaknesses to go for other than hoping the healers of the zerg crash or lag so bad that it ends.
(and by killable i mean it does not take anymore 2 hours in Emp ring keep upstairs where the fight turns whole Cyrodiil into a slideshow because you need all alliance there to kill them)
People who want to stack in a zerg and spam Purge deserves to be yeeted away.. better learn to not be stacked in one place.
Totally agree with this post. Nothing more to add.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
KingzZVI✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Plaguebreak is working as intended and is the one set of the 3 new ones that do it well. The purge spam is exactly why a set like Plaguebreak is needed.
And in 1v1 it does pretty much nothing and to almost any situation there would be dozens of better choices for a 5p set.
In reality it has made some big zergy groups stop spamming Purge and thus those groups did actually became "killable" again. Yes their healing still gives big groups the advantage, but when cannot Purge spam - there are some weaknesses to go for other than hoping the healers of the zerg crash or lag so bad that it ends.
(and by killable i mean it does not take anymore 2 hours in Emp ring keep upstairs where the fight turns whole Cyrodiil into a slideshow because you need all alliance there to kill them)
People who want to stack in a zerg and spam Purge deserves to be yeeted away.. better learn to not be stacked in one place.
Totally agree with this post. Nothing more to add.
You guys clearly dont see the problem that this set is.If they wanna make a set like this make one where if i apply a dot to someone on seige there group explodes for 40k obivion damage.2 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭You can throw around numbers as much as you like but the set is governed by hard math encoded into the servers. The Devs know exactly how much the set can hit for based on how many people are in the area. If it's hitting that hard it's because it's supposed to.
Edited by Thecompton73 on October 1, 2021 10:31PM1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The people who defend this set aren't interested in proof or game balance, they just hold a hatred for large groups and enjoy using these broken sets to gain an advantage.
Plenty of screenshots and videos out there showing how broken it is. 44k proc hitting only 5 players.
The video just posted is 3 hits totaling 43k. For the set to do that, 3 people in the group would have had to have PB cleansed at the same time so class ability is out unless they all hit the purify synergy at the same time. You can also see that there are two friendlies in the area, so 7 players likely got hit by each proc, not only 5.
Feel free to correct my math, but this is what I believe happened given my general understanding as to what happened on the back end:
43,608 / 3 = 14,536
x + (x*0.7) = 14,536 ... x = 8550
Battle Spirit... 9691 x 2 = 17100
I have a stamdk using PB that easily gets 6k weapon dmg yielding a 15k tooltip. I've seen as high as 8k weapon dmg in a group, which they were fighting.
I think if you want to discuss a nerf to a set, I think it's important to discuss the actual damage. The set didn't hit for 43k dmg, the situation hit for that much, which was its intention. Viscous Death hits for more, but does 0 dmg unless someone dies.
The cleanse is what makes that proc amazing, but more often than not, wearing that set kind of feels pointless. It barely hits for 5-600 dmg a tick.
Okay... but the point is, the set is clearly broken. The bottom line is that ONE cleanse instantly killed the whole group, I thought it was 4 groupies plus one, but you may be right that it was 7.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Thecompton73 wrote: »You can throw around numbers as much as you like but the set is governed by hard math encoded into the servers. The Devs know exactly how much the set can hit for based on how many people are in the area. If it's hitting that hard it's because it's supposed to.
The devs also know how much damage did dark conversion hrathgar. Have you even seen their recent dungeon run stream, all of them qhere actual surprised at how much damage the players did and how fact they cleqred the dungeon with secert bosses abd all hard modes. Point is, the devs know as much as you know about damage calculation in the game. Many skills/ sets were told to deal a certain qbout of damage were then discovered to be dealing way more than that and subsequently nerfed or changed how they function.0 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭Rasande_Robin wrote: »This is the most balanced set by far these last couple of years...
There has always been an unbalance in the game when you think about yin and yang, pro's and con's.
You have major prot and major vuln, major mend and major defile. You have buffs and debuffs. You can cleanse debuffs you can remove buff... Oh wait... No you can't.
You see the problem here?
This set balance that last part out. Since now you can't remove debuffs.
Except for the part where the set allows you to cheat. It's an interesting way for your buddies to get some fast ballgroup wipes though....0 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thecompton73 wrote: »You can throw around numbers as much as you like but the set is governed by hard math encoded into the servers. The Devs know exactly how much the set can hit for based on how many people are in the area. If it's hitting that hard it's because it's supposed to.
It's not broken because the devs intended it to be broken? Is that really your argument?2 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »You can throw around numbers as much as you like but the set is governed by hard math encoded into the servers. The Devs know exactly how much the set can hit for based on how many people are in the area. If it's hitting that hard it's because it's supposed to.
It's not broken because the devs intended it to be broken? Is that really your argument?
My point was the Devs, not individual players, ultimately decide if something is "broken". The third PTS patch in the cycle usually contains the final changes to sets/abilities and that dropped today with no changes to this set so I'd say it's clear They don't consider it broke.0 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thecompton73 wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »You can throw around numbers as much as you like but the set is governed by hard math encoded into the servers. The Devs know exactly how much the set can hit for based on how many people are in the area. If it's hitting that hard it's because it's supposed to.
It's not broken because the devs intended it to be broken? Is that really your argument?
My point was the Devs, not individual players, ultimately decide if something is "broken". The third PTS patch in the cycle usually contains the final changes to sets/abilities and that dropped today with no changes to this set so I'd say it's clear They don't consider it broke.
Or they haven't come to the realization that it is broken, yet.
It'll be nerfed in time, and that will be a good day.2