Plaguebreaker and the impact it truly has.

KingzZVI

I'm surprised I haven't seen more concern about this set or outcry of it being overpowered. The set is completely broken I was in a 4 man and it hit me for over 40k damage which is just insane. I think the set is completely busted and needs a hard look at because it is hurting a game at its core. Purge is main thing in the game its built into many classes, and is very useful to both small and large group play. Having a set in which can hit 40k damage on you for using your class kit and abilities in which to survive is insane to me. I just dont see someone wearing this set and hitting a large group of people and killing them while the large group is doing there job and providing heals and purges toward there group benefitable. I think it takes away the skill of the game and takes away from some classes to be able to 1vx while a dude is just reapplying that set for a massive amount of damage. To me it need a hard look at and if this is the direction of the game then its a sad day.

Marcus_Aurelius

The set put the final nail on magwarden coffer. The class was already so bad and now we can't use netch anymore, one of the very few class defining skill.
At least make it to not proc on self purge.

KingzZVI

Its just cleanse is such an important part to not only this mmo but many mmos created, attacking a core part of the game makes no sense to me. It hurts both small group and large group, if they plan on nerfing hrothgar they should take a look at this set as well

neferpitou73

Those are rookie numbers, I've seen a 57k proc.

Although to be fair in the little time I spent in CP that was the only proc I got...because everyone just stopped purging alltogehter.

KingzZVI

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Those are rookie numbers, I've seen a 57k proc.

Although to be fair in the little time I spent in CP that was the only proc I got...because everyone just stopped purging alltogehter.

lol thats even worse then mine. Makes even more appropriate to be looked at and hopefully toned down because it defiantly takes away from a core part of some classes and the game in general

TequilaFire

Frankly I haven't been impressed by Plaguebreak, it is very situational.
Procs all the time in PvE, procs less in PvP and or you can't see the proc. lol

Ezorus

Think it is supposed to be a stamina bomber set (which is fine) but it is very under whelming compared to the other two sets

KingzZVI

If they wanna make a stam vicious death thats fine by me but plaguebreak procs off the other persons ability which i think is wrong cause it takes no strategy or skill. Your damage shouldnt come from another people doing there build right.

KingzZVI

Another thing too i failed to mention is with the lack of being able to purge dying to seige is an all time high.

Rasande_Robin

This is the most balanced set by far these last couple of years...

There has always been an unbalance in the game when you think about yin and yang, pro's and con's.

You have major prot and major vuln, major mend and major defile. You have buffs and debuffs. You can cleanse debuffs you can remove buff... Oh wait... No you can't.

You see the problem here?

This set balance that last part out. Since now you can't remove debuffs.

Stx

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

KingzZVI

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

This is the most balanced set by far these last couple of years...

There has always been an unbalance in the game when you think about yin and yang, pro's and con's.

You have major prot and major vuln, major mend and major defile. You have buffs and debuffs. You can cleanse debuffs you can remove buff... Oh wait... No you can't.

You see the problem here?

This set balance that last part out. Since now you can't remove debuffs.

Its not balanced at all. You shouldnt be taking 40k plus damge by just playing your class or using an ability. If thats the case make it when they block they explode, see how ridiculous that sounds? Your getting punished for using an ability on a clas and or in the support tree, its making healers and support in pvp useless.

KingzZVI

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

The scaling is bad, but its the core concept to me. Your getting punished for doing something right. Healers in pvp are helping allies be able to get through seige and through the debuffs thats applied to them through there applities and to me it seems crazy to have someone punished for playing the right way. Constant purging in large fights against seige and getting pulled into seige by convergance now is needed.

ealdwin

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

The proc condition & cooldown could also use a look at. As of now, it can be applied almost too easily and on every second. Proxy Det at least requires a kill to proc. An immunity after the proc may be appropriate for each person affected as well.

Something like this :

Dealing direct damage to an enemy, who is not a Plague Carrier, turns them into a Plague Carrier for 10 seconds, dealing 2563 Disease Damage over the duration. If the plague is removed early, it explodes, infecting enemies within 8 meters of the carrier and dealing the remaining damage as Disease Damage. After the effect ends or is cleansed, the target gains plague immunity for 10 seconds, and cannot become a Plague Carrier again during this time. This effect can occur once per attack and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

jaws343

I'll be honest, I am considering setting up a nasty proc build on my stamblade bow build, using this and Pestilent host (or venomous smite). With a masters bow some mythic or monster set combo that I haven't figured out yet. Was waiting to see if Plaguebreak would receive a nerf next patch before I did anything.

I like the spreading synergy of Plaguebreak and Pestilent Host. With the ability to proc both on one player and with the potential for both to spread damage to others.

KingzZVI

ealdwin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

The proc condition & cooldown could also use a look at. As of now, it can be applied almost too easily and on every second. Proxy Det at least requires a kill to proc. An immunity after the proc may be appropriate for each person affected as well.

Something like this :

Dealing direct damage to an enemy, who is not a Plague Carrier, turns them into a Plague Carrier for 10 seconds, dealing 2563 Disease Damage over the duration. If the plague is removed early, it explodes, infecting enemies within 8 meters of the carrier and dealing the remaining damage as Disease Damage. After the effect ends or is cleansed, the target gains plague immunity for 10 seconds, and cannot become a Plague Carrier again during this time. This effect can occur once per attack and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

See this is a good idea, as long as the tooltips dont go too overboard. I just dont think a set should have the same damage as an ability or and ultimate. so if its at around 6k for a burst then that all good for me but it should never hit harder then an ability, thats the same issue I has with hrothgar it hit harder then aqn ultimate and abilities.

KingzZVI

jaws343 wrote: »

I'll be honest, I am considering setting up a nasty proc build on my stamblade bow build, using this and Pestilent host (or venomous smite). With a masters bow some mythic or monster set combo that I haven't figured out yet. Was waiting to see if Plaguebreak would receive a nerf next patch before I did anything.

I like the spreading synergy of Plaguebreak and Pestilent Host. With the ability to proc both on one player and with the potential for both to spread damage to others.

Ability to theory craft like this is great, again i just go back to my base things in the game. A set should never hit harder then a abilty or ultimate and it shouldnt affect core concepts of the game (ex: cleanse, block, roll dodge etc)

VaranisArano

KingzZVI wrote: »

Another thing too i failed to mention is with the lack of being able to purge dying to seige is an all time high.

Well, that's part of the point of the set.

It's an anti-Purge set, which makes it an anti-group set, because it's mostly groups who were able to spam purges and cleanses. Completely coincidentally, it's also groups that spammed heals and Purge who were copping the most criticism for being able to stand in siege damage and not die, back when we didn't have this set.

The real impact Plaguebreak has is to disincentivize spamming Purge, thus leaving groups either more vulnerable to other combat effects (like siege) or to use Purge and risk blowing up from the proc.

Sorry, but this sounds like a case of "Working as Intended."

Stx

Plaguebreak doesn't deincentivize spamming purge, it makes it so you literally can't use purge, or get one shot. That's not balanced in any way. Especially as others have said, some classes have periodic self purges as part of their core kit.

ealdwin

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak doesn't deincentivize spamming purge, it makes it so you literally can't use purge, or get one shot. That's not balanced in any way. Especially as others have said, some classes have periodic self purges as part of their core kit.

This. It's not punishing quick repeats of purge by dedicated healers within coordinated groups. It's punishing any and all instances of purge, including those non-spammed instances made by ungroups randos who happen to be in close proximity to another. I don't mind the set existing for the purpose of discouraging purge spam, but that's not what the set does.

KingzZVI

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingzZVI wrote: »

Another thing too i failed to mention is with the lack of being able to purge dying to seige is an all time high.

Well, that's part of the point of the set.

It's an anti-Purge set, which makes it an anti-group set, because it's mostly groups who were able to spam purges and cleanses. Completely coincidentally, it's also groups that spammed heals and Purge who were copping the most criticism for being able to stand in siege damage and not die, back when we didn't have this set.

The real impact Plaguebreak has is to disincentivize spamming Purge, thus leaving groups either more vulnerable to other combat effects (like siege) or to use Purge and risk blowing up from the proc.

Sorry, but this sounds like a case of "Working as Intended."

So people who are organized should get punished then? Thats the worst argument that ive seen about this set, is that its good because it makes people who know what there doing weaker. If you have a college degree and someone you work with has a less degree then you, should you be put on the same level as them? of course not cause you worked hard for that right? Cordination isnt easy and playing together isnt easy but yet they get punished.

KingzZVI

ealdwin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak doesn't deincentivize spamming purge, it makes it so you literally can't use purge, or get one shot. That's not balanced in any way. Especially as others have said, some classes have periodic self purges as part of their core kit.

This. It's not punishing quick repeats of purge by dedicated healers within coordinated groups. It's punishing any and all instances of purge, including those non-spammed instances made by ungroups randos who happen to be in close proximity to another. I don't mind the set existing for the purpose of discouraging purge spam, but that's not what the set does.

Its not just cleanse either. Example say your a healer with no purge on but you use betty netch on a magden healer with curse eater, you become completely useless. the set should have a burst of when people purge thats fine but it shouldnt hit harder then 7k and shouldnt scale

VaranisArano

KingzZVI wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingzZVI wrote: »

Another thing too i failed to mention is with the lack of being able to purge dying to seige is an all time high.

Well, that's part of the point of the set.

It's an anti-Purge set, which makes it an anti-group set, because it's mostly groups who were able to spam purges and cleanses. Completely coincidentally, it's also groups that spammed heals and Purge who were copping the most criticism for being able to stand in siege damage and not die, back when we didn't have this set.

The real impact Plaguebreak has is to disincentivize spamming Purge, thus leaving groups either more vulnerable to other combat effects (like siege) or to use Purge and risk blowing up from the proc.

Sorry, but this sounds like a case of "Working as Intended."

So people who are organized should get punished then? Thats the worst argument that ive seen about this set, is that its good because it makes people who know what there doing weaker. If you have a college degree and someone you work with has a less degree then you, should you be put on the same level as them? of course not cause you worked hard for that right? Cordination isnt easy and playing together isnt easy but yet they get punished.

Whether you and I like it or not, that is precisely why ZOS designed the set.

From the Update 31 patch notes:
"Similar to Dark Convergence, we targeted large groups again with this set, focusing on their ability to have numerous purges running, making locking them down and bleeding them out incredibly difficult to do. Now, larger groups must purge more carefully, running the risk of setting off ticking time bombs and having to heal up the aftermath instead of repeatedly casting it with reckless abandon."

It's not an "argument." It's what ZOS said.

What you describe - groups having a harder time surviving in siege damage because they can't purge without getting hit with the proc - seems to me to be "Working as Intended" based off of what the Devs themselves say.


(And so you know, I play a raid healer in PVP. When I talk about groups healing/purging through sieges, I'd be one of the healers casting heals and purges so the group didn't die. I may not enjoy the results of ZOS targeting that playstyle, but I certainly understand why they targeted it.)

Stx

What ZOS said isn't the reality though. There is no "healing the aftermath" on a 40k proc. The set is broken.

Remove the scaling, adjust the proc damage to hit for 8k ish. Done. The set will serve its purpose, where setting off two or three of those in a row will inflict burst on your group, but it won't just one shot you on the first purge.

jaws343

Stx wrote: »

What ZOS said isn't the reality though. There is no "healing the aftermath" on a 40k proc. The set is broken.

Remove the scaling, adjust the proc damage to hit for 8k ish. Done. The set will serve its purpose, where setting off two or three of those in a row will inflict burst on your group, but it won't just one shot you on the first purge.

They could drop the explosion on purge. But have it spread on purge and ramp in damage the more hops it takes.

So say you proc on 1 person, they get the dot and then purge.
It hops to 2 other people, without explosion but increases in damage by 10%.
If they purge it hops again to others with another 10%.
And so on.

Moonsorrow

Plaguebreak is working as intended and is the one set of the 3 new ones that do it well. The purge spam is exactly why a set like Plaguebreak is needed.

And in 1v1 it does pretty much nothing and to almost any situation there would be dozens of better choices for a 5p set.

In reality it has made some big zergy groups stop spamming Purge and thus those groups did actually became "killable" again. Yes their healing still gives big groups the advantage, but when cannot Purge spam - there are some weaknesses to go for other than hoping the healers of the zerg crash or lag so bad that it ends.

(and by killable i mean it does not take anymore 2 hours in Emp ring keep upstairs where the fight turns whole Cyrodiil into a slideshow because you need all alliance there to kill them)

People who want to stack in a zerg and spam Purge deserves to be yeeted away.. better learn to not be stacked in one place.

KingzZVI

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Plaguebreak is working as intended and is the one set of the 3 new ones that do it well. The purge spam is exactly why a set like Plaguebreak is needed.

And in 1v1 it does pretty much nothing and to almost any situation there would be dozens of better choices for a 5p set.

In reality it has made some big zergy groups stop spamming Purge and thus those groups did actually became "killable" again. Yes their healing still gives big groups the advantage, but when cannot Purge spam - there are some weaknesses to go for other than hoping the healers of the zerg crash or lag so bad that it ends.

(and by killable i mean it does not take anymore 2 hours in Emp ring keep upstairs where the fight turns whole Cyrodiil into a slideshow because you need all alliance there to kill them)

People who want to stack in a zerg and spam Purge deserves to be yeeted away.. better learn to not be stacked in one place.

That argument is dead because i was small scaling, and still died cause i used my netch and still took 20k damage. There should not be a set that affects a core combat of the game. Block, dodge roll, sprint and cleanse are core concepts that should not had people getting free damage from anothers persons core combat.

TequilaFire

You should not get free purges from Netch either.

neferpitou73

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingzZVI wrote: »

Another thing too i failed to mention is with the lack of being able to purge dying to seige is an all time high.

Well, that's part of the point of the set.

It's an anti-Purge set, which makes it an anti-group set, because it's mostly groups who were able to spam purges and cleanses. Completely coincidentally, it's also groups that spammed heals and Purge who were copping the most criticism for being able to stand in siege damage and not die, back when we didn't have this set.

The real impact Plaguebreak has is to disincentivize spamming Purge, thus leaving groups either more vulnerable to other combat effects (like siege) or to use Purge and risk blowing up from the proc.

Sorry, but this sounds like a case of "Working as Intended."

Or just slot another healer and keep steamrolling along...

That's issue when you try to correct game mechanics problems with sets. Ball groups are just going to adapt to it because we have players to spare while the pug groups don't. We can devote another player to healing to offset that damage. What can a zerg group do?

ajkb78

KingzZVI wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

The scaling is bad, but its the core concept to me. Your getting punished for doing something right. Healers in pvp are helping allies be able to get through seige and through the debuffs thats applied to them through there applities and to me it seems crazy to have someone punished for playing the right way. Constant purging in large fights against seige and getting pulled into seige by convergance now is needed.

You're getting punished for doing something excessively. Purge spam is too powerful against defensive siege, this forces you to choose your moment - and not stack. The damage only ramps up to crazy values when a lot of enemies get hit. As an anti ballgroup set it really needs to be able to oneshot tightly stacked groups because anything less than a oneshot will just be outhealed.

KingzZVI

ajkb78 wrote: »

KingzZVI wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Plaguebreak is a really cool themed set but the scaling on the proc is broken. They should just remove the scaling and keep the proc at a high damage proc if dot is purged. That way you if you really need to purge off some nasty stuff, it's a choice to keep the nasty, or take a burst of damage. Repeated purging will still kill you. But none of this one-shot nonsense.

The scaling is bad, but its the core concept to me. Your getting punished for doing something right. Healers in pvp are helping allies be able to get through seige and through the debuffs thats applied to them through there applities and to me it seems crazy to have someone punished for playing the right way. Constant purging in large fights against seige and getting pulled into seige by convergance now is needed.

You're getting punished for doing something excessively. Purge spam is too powerful against defensive siege, this forces you to choose your moment - and not stack. The damage only ramps up to crazy values when a lot of enemies get hit. As an anti ballgroup set it really needs to be able to oneshot tightly stacked groups because anything less than a oneshot will just be outhealed.

Im small scale with bigger groups then the one im in hitting me with this set and killing me. Its not balanced idc what anyone says, if you can hit 40k plus damage without doing anything but hitting 1 skills its busted. Im guessing you guys thought bash build and harmony was broke right? This is no different. It needs a massive cooldown along with damage being nerfed greatly