Since this is somehow still going, I'll reply.

SilverWF wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The moment you hit 50, you're vet. You likely have all necessary skills and passives unlocked by that point.

Not.
Or, at least, this is outdated.
At release, you were veteran at 50, because it took much longer time. You hit 50 (and Vet1) at the end of Coldharbour zone, doing all possible quests (dungeons, bosses, etc) around.

For your first character, maybe. The XP's were still there, it was just a question of how you earned them. Most did mainline quests, etc.

You also had fewer skillpoints from leveling back then, because you had not yet earned the once from VR. You negelcted that point. You have 14 more available to place than you did then.

Note again, I'm referring to skills, not skill.

And hit Vet rank cap (12, then 14, then 16...) at the end of Cadwell's Gold. I remember it at my Sorc: I got to Vet 14 while having "tamriel hero" title already and only 3 (three!) side quests left.

Funny, by a definition very similar to the one you propose, you were doing it wrong. I cut my teeth on dungeons, was doing them well under the recommended level for the challlenge, and hit VR14 (when it was cap) before I had even completed Silver.

To this day, I have never completed Cadwell's Gold. *gasp*

In the current state you reaching 50 at the end of 2nd zone, literally easy walking around nad having only half of needed to just one build Skill points and half leveled skills. You are not real veteran here. Champion - yes, veteran - not.

Nor are you based on CP's. You sound like you're wanting an achievement check. "Must have clear on this dungeon to run this dungeon."

The part you clearly missed about what you quoted was "necessary skills and passives unlocked by that point." With 64 skillpoints, you can have skill loadout that provides the ability to clear any 4 man content.

Those skills and passives may not be maxed. You'll still benefit from some extra shard/skillpoint hunting, but they can be done. It's still 50 hours if you take it slow, and your primary lines will be maxed, or close to it by the time you roll over, at least according to the last six alts I've leveled up since VR's were removed.

The difficulty gradient for the dungeons, version I and version II are not what they once were. Normal does not enforce mechanics, nor teach/require the group play that Vet does. Vet does not have a recommended CP range for the "II's." Even if it did, it was just that, a recommendation.

You want people to stay at these lower level versions until they hit your magic number, roll over to Vet mode, and somehow be expected to suddenly be perfectly proficient.

It doesn't work that way.

People improve by doing.

There are going to be instances where it's not going to happen. You disband, you move on.

There are also going to be instances where good players at lower level get to become excellent players at slightly less lower level.

If you take the time to advise, if you take the time to teach, people will generally take the time to improve. You're clearly not willing to take that time. You're equally not willing to take alternative suggestions, as you come across as having it all figured out.

Exceptions aside, I don't think the problem is them using the group finder at this point.

I think the problem is you using the group finder, so either way, just don't. Clearly someone of your obvious experience and stature can find three others to finish content to your heart's content.

Your problem will be solved, and the rest of us can continue to help develop less experienced players that want and are willing to learn. The less experienced players can learn to take constructive criticism and develop their ability without having to assume that every high CP "veteran" they come across is automatically expecting them to fail, rather than helping them succeed.

Flameheart wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Here's an idea, instead of hating on lowbies just get better so that you can carry them?

As long as they understand you won't risk killing yourself by rezing them I don't see the problem. Let them wipe, finish the boss, move on. Simples

The thing with the "carrying" isn't that easy anymore after the sustain nerf, you can't compensate a second DD which is a total loss to the degree pre-sustain-nerf and this with healers who think healing is all they need to do and never heard of ele drain and bubbles and tanks who are only able to taunt maybe one add.

In addition I think it's up to my decision if I want to do that and waste my time and pots for that and not yours.

If you don't want to carry people through dungeons then join an active guild and don't pug? The choice is yours, definitely, but by using ground finder you are making the choice to be paired with people that need to be carried.

Roll a stamsorc running either Bone Pirate or VO and you'll have no sustain issues and easily be able to carry through all the non-dlc dungeons.

I am in an active guild, but I play several toons and not just one and do pledges several times a day. Even in an active guild you won't find always people who are just in the mood to play an instance with you just to the time where just you like to do one.

Actually the sense of doing pledges several times isn't to do that with just one char if you have six.

I have no stamsorc, but a stamblade with VO + NMG and Alkosh jewelry. In fact I can carry others through almost any vet dungeon if I want to, but It's pretty hard to keep my 60-70k+ AoE dps and my 30k+ single target dps (without Warhorn, who am I that I expect a slotted Warhorn in PUGs :-) with a lousy DD and longer fights and without any support but chain potting. In addition it does mostly not contribute to my personal fun (yes, insdeed, there is such a thing...personal fun). Ever stormed into a trash group in WR2 after a tank which is taunting no add and a DD with less than 5k dps ? Even with 60k + AoE dps you aren't fast enough to get those trash down without blocking and with blocking your stamina goes poof.

..but my question to you is....why the hell have I to adapt to players - who clearly know (if they have an IQ over the "doesn't-forget-to-breathe-level") - that they aren't ready for certain instances and difficulties yet? Why never the other way round ? To be honest, I believe that in most cases I meet underwhelming and lacking players in PUGs aren't newbies, but people who want to get carried by intent and that makes a difference for me.

Find a better guild then? Seriously mate your over 900 cp, you should be able to carry a group of CP 10s through any of the 4 man dungeons, they're all that easy.

I needed undaunted on my pvp warden last night so did the pledges, had a CP 33, CP 56 and CP 122 and carried all three through as a tank. Character is geared for PVP so it's a lousy tank at best but got through with them no worries, sure the fights took longer, sure the healer only did half the healing but it was no where near coming close to being a challenge - and you have a good 150cp more than me so should be even more capable.

Being a senior player brings with it the responsibility of helping new players learn mechanics and get through veteran content. Other people helped us and in turn we help the community, only through this attitude will the game have a healthy level of new players coming through the ranks to ensure a healthy population.

If you're not willing to shoulder the burden, don't use group finder....

I don't know how to vote about this , ive meet many low end players that were awesome and i help in the past and then i meet allot of them that ... you are wondering if we are still playing the same game...

i always find it funny that higher end CP players are the one that quit first its like they want to be carried ..

Last night dark shade 2, tank cp 300 me cp healer 700 or so dps 180 and another dps 630 ... 630 goes in right away ahead of us all dies and rage quits .. we waited for another dps who was 630 but playing mostly as healer sorc and we finished it 30 min or so we actually got achievement for speed run lol

BTW what is going on breath of life? if you run and cast it your character stops! ? is this a bug ?

PS

love it when you have a noob tank , that when we all drop a ultimate he takes the boss away from it ...

SilverWF wrote: »

All lowbies must not go to the any vet dungeons.
They need to train in normal, learn all mechs, polish their rotations and upgrade gear.
There is enough number of BS players of 160+ CP - more than enough.

You're absolutely right about the bolded part.
I wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because open world content and normal dungeon don't teach people sh** about the game and their role? Perhaps it is because these people don't run any remotely challenging content - such as vet dungeons - partially due to getting kicked by people like you before even starting the dungeon, until they're cp 160+ and then they simply end up a completely clueless cp 160+?

Opticon wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

CP does not define a groups capability as much as some people seem to think.

I absolutely agree, but to play devil's advocate, there isn't really any other metric to measure by for this.

But there is... It's called playing the game. Sadly, many people give low levels the boot before taking a single step in the dungeon. CP visibility to others should be a toggleable option. At least then capable low levels may be able to slip through the cracks and not get kicked as they are porting into the dungeon.

I've qued for pledge daily dungeons and as soon as i load into it i am met with "voted to kick" before i could do or say anything and i'm currently CP281 and this has happened to me when i was lower around 240-260 and it's complete crap and it's almost always done by a group that is 630cp. now how is that fair exactly ? i've been playing on and off since beta and i've been in almost every vet dungeon except for some of the newer ones.

kicking people because they aren't on your level of 630 is BS end of story, people pay their hard earned money for this game and work hard to get gear and do better just to be met by a bunch of random clowns who are 630 and kick you and YOU have to wait 10+ minutes to reque wasting your time when you could be killing bosses and getting loot in that dungeon 3 jerks decided to kick you from.

last week i got kicked out twice once for each vet pledge by three 630's
i can swear up and down that the PS4 community is toxic as hell and if this keeps going sooner or later a lot of people will just quit the game and move onto a game with less toxic community.

@Diminish

"There are plenty of patient people on PS4 NA, but yeah, it can be pretty ridiculous at times. I was kicked from a group for a vet pledge just the other night for calling out that our tank was a sorc after seeing people dying on the 1st boss, and mentioning that role selection exists for a reason, lol. I'm glad they kicked me, saved me a *** ton of time and soul gems."

I don't know the circumstances why the people died ( standing in red no heals? were you a healer or dps? was tank using taunt ? ice staf? , maybe they just rushed in too much? many stupid reasons to die by accident lol) sometimes with pugs we talk too much and not pay attention

BUT having said that i have to admit i have met some amazing just AMAZING sorc tanks , especially when doing vet helra damm those guys don't go down, i think maybe you judged too quickly?and maybe they thought you were putting them down ? what cp were they ? what cp were you ? did they think you are been elite d bag?


i usually que up as dps and healer as i can heal and dps with my magic sorc without anybody dying from normal damage

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Diminish

"There are plenty of patient people on PS4 NA, but yeah, it can be pretty ridiculous at times. I was kicked from a group for a vet pledge just the other night for calling out that our tank was a sorc after seeing people dying on the 1st boss, and mentioning that role selection exists for a reason, lol. I'm glad they kicked me, saved me a *** ton of time and soul gems."

I don't know the circumstances why the people died ( standing in red no heals? were you a healer or dps? was tank using taunt ? ice staf? , maybe they just rushed in too much? many stupid reasons to die by accident lol) sometimes with pugs we talk too much and not pay attention

BUT having said that i have to admit i have met some amazing just AMAZING sorc tanks , especially when doing vet helra damm those guys don't go down, i think maybe you judged too quickly?and maybe they thought you were putting them down ? what cp were they ? what cp were you ? did they think you are been elite d bag?


i usually que up as dps and healer as i can heal and dps with my magic sorc without anybody dying from normal damage

No, the sorc tank was not suited to be a tank at all. Especially after getting one shot 10 seconds into the 1st boss fight as he went running in there all Leroy Jenkins. There was no red, it was 3 sorcs (I was one of them) and a templar. They were all CP 630, and obviously all in the same group prior to me being graced with their presence.

Bad high-CP players aside, I believe that veteran dungeon queue should be restricted to CP160+ for base game, and keep DLC at CP300+. Having a player of CP10-159 means they have no chance at a finalised gear build, meaning they might not be able to fulfil their role even if they're mentally able to.

The gear they loot is also lower than CP160, meaning that it's ultimately useless to everyone there, making farming vet dungeons a waste of time. There's no point farming for a monster helm you'll be replacing in the next few days. If they wanted set gear before CP160, they should be farming normal dungeons or using crafted gear, both of which are much, much easier to get.

Furthermore, a new player below CP160 can still complete Undaunted pledges on normal mode. The grind to CP160 isn't hard at all (especially as of Markarth patch), so they'd at most be spending a week on normal from lv45 to CP160. If players really wanted to do veteran hard mode pledges, they should be willing to grind that initial CP milestone to make everyone's lives easier.

Any arguments in this thread regarding high CP players being bad at the game also do not address the issue that this thread is discussing. Bad high-CP players do not justify enabling low CP players in the same difficult content. I understand your concerns (and have first-hand experience of it, too), but please save your complaints for another thread.