The issue here is not simply mathematical. I've taken a few days off because I was having such bad luck from PUGs, LFGs and even some guild groups, even with players well over CP160.

My two mains right now are a Magicka DK DPS and a Healer, and whichever I was playing with, I was getting horrible groups. Tanks with way too low health, who can't stay alive, let alone do stuff to help the rest of us...DPS with 5k single target. People who are convinced that there is no problem standing in red on vet dungeons if they have Vigor and/or other self-heals. People who WILL NOT be told about mechanics. And even, in one case, a group that kept wiping, and blaming me (the healer), and it later emerged that one of DPS was lagging and wasn't rolling out of red because he didn't see it in time. Whether this is true and he was suffering from technical problems, or a lie to cover his lack of skill, it's just way too prevalent right now.

Most players are NOT watching videos, reading guides and practising rotations..they are blundering through content and have a really poor way to communicate about it.

I really want to join a TS/Discord only dungeons group with lots of daily pledge runs and weekly trials, but am somehow stuck having to PUG my way through...and it stinks.

TLDR: So I share the OP's frustration, but this isn't gonna have a quick fix by not allowing <CP160 players.

I don't care who I group with I am willing to give any content a try with low level or differently geared players. First boss will usually let you know if the group has a real chance of making it through or not. If the group make-up is really bad and it is obvious we are not going to progress farther I suggest a three strikes and we are done agreement. Meaning of course if we fail on that fight three more times we agree that the group just doesn't have what it takes to go on and we end it. I don't ever blame a player when this happens but some do. I just say sorry but our group isn't built to handle this one and let it go at that.

I will at least try though.

Why did this thread have to be resurrected? Toxic as F!

paulsimonps wrote: »

Why did this thread have to be resurrected? Toxic as F!

There is nothing toxic.

As a NEW player myself, I totally agree with the OP. In fact I made a similar thread over the weekend nicely detailing why certain dungeons should not be immediately available, however I had a mod delete it since several people posted replies thinking I needed help selecting "normal" from the dungeon finder menu.

Anyways... Here is a condensed version...

New players should not be immediately allowed in rank II normals or DLC dungeons, immediately allowed into veterans at 50, and I haven't made it to vet II yet but I'm sure the logic will apply.

There is a TON of content on other dungeons for us newbies to do, SO much content, we can certainly live without a handful of harder dungeons. Eventually we will have our time at the more difficult stuff, but tossing a level 10 into WGT for example is just a bad experience for everyone involved.

As a new player, I don't want to be doing 1% group dps and dying every pull.
As a veteran (of other games), I know what it's like when someone under-geared joins.

This is not an elitism thing, it's a game mechanics thing. Some dungeons are more difficult than others, so let the new players become more comfortable before allowing them to enter.

That being said, however, the players who *** and moan about being teamed up with someone they consider to be too low, well then you shouldn't be using dungeon finder.

I'm plagued with Fungal Grotto 2 when playing late and no guildies on..


I'm constantly trying to tell people to roll away when tethered or attack one shade if someones tied down....

ZOS have to modify Dungeon Finder to limit access to dungeons based on player levels (even Vet dungeons). We all know that a group of teen leveled players (no CP) are not going to complete normal Blackheart Haven, let alone WGT or RoM, just like a group of CP50's are going to struggle on their vet versions.

All players have a right to queue for their daily random dungeon bonuses, it is not their fault of they get put in the DLC dungeons that they are not ready for. As there is no difference in rewards for choosing vet over normal, these players should probably only choose the normal version for the bonus and be more selective on which vet dungeons they queue for.

I'm a firm believer in giving people an opportunity to prove their worth and would suggest that if using PUGs for gear farming, wanting to kick sub CP160 players purely because any gear they get is no good for you is a bit rich. Maybe for this you should be forming your own groups or run them with guild mates.

I generally avoid queuing on my own for PUGs because of the attitude out there - a lot of people assume a CP100 in a vet dungeon will be no good and assume a CP630 knows what they are doing and has a top level build.

I'm CP630 who does a lot of solo PVE and doesn't do trials; so my tanks don't have 50k health, my DD's don't do 30k damage and none of my characters have BiS gear. I have been called a scrub in a vet dungeon because of one or more of these reasons - even in dungeons I have cleared dozens of times before.

Anyone expecting to see vet trial level players and builds in vet PUG's is expecting too much.

disintegr8 wrote: »

ZOS have to modify Dungeon Finder to limit access to dungeons based on player levels (even Vet dungeons). We all know that a group of teen leveled players (no CP) are not going to complete normal Blackheart Haven, let alone WGT or RoM, just like a group of CP50's are going to struggle on their vet versions.

All players have a right to queue for their daily random dungeon bonuses, it is not their fault of they get put in the DLC dungeons that they are not ready for. As there is no difference in rewards for choosing vet over normal, these players should probably only choose the normal version for the bonus and be more selective on which vet dungeons they queue for.

I'm a firm believer in giving people an opportunity to prove their worth and would suggest that if using PUGs for gear farming, wanting to kick sub CP160 players purely because any gear they get is no good for you is a bit rich. Maybe for this you should be forming your own groups or run them with guild mates.

I generally avoid queuing on my own for PUGs because of the attitude out there - a lot of people assume a CP100 in a vet dungeon will be no good and assume a CP630 knows what they are doing and has a top level build.

I'm CP630 who does a lot of solo PVE and doesn't do trials; so my tanks don't have 50k health, my DD's don't do 30k damage and none of my characters have BiS gear. I have been called a scrub in a vet dungeon because of one or more of these reasons - even in dungeons I have cleared dozens of times before.

Anyone expecting to see vet trial level players and builds in vet PUG's is expecting too much.

I only PUG for full groups, never manualky create or join a group. I only ever manually form a 2 man group for other dungeons with my brother.

I run vet trials and gear...

disintegr8 wrote: »

ZOS have to modify Dungeon Finder to limit access to dungeons based on player levels (even Vet dungeons). We all know that a group of teen leveled players (no CP) are not going to complete normal Blackheart Haven, let alone WGT or RoM, just like a group of CP50's are going to struggle on their vet versions.

All players have a right to queue for their daily random dungeon bonuses, it is not their fault of they get put in the DLC dungeons that they are not ready for. As there is no difference in rewards for choosing vet over normal, these players should probably only choose the normal version for the bonus and be more selective on which vet dungeons they queue for.

I'm a firm believer in giving people an opportunity to prove their worth and would suggest that if using PUGs for gear farming, wanting to kick sub CP160 players purely because any gear they get is no good for you is a bit rich. Maybe for this you should be forming your own groups or run them with guild mates.

I generally avoid queuing on my own for PUGs because of the attitude out there - a lot of people assume a CP100 in a vet dungeon will be no good and assume a CP630 knows what they are doing and has a top level build.

I'm CP630 who does a lot of solo PVE and doesn't do trials; so my tanks don't have 50k health, my DD's don't do 30k damage and none of my characters have BiS gear. I have been called a scrub in a vet dungeon because of one or more of these reasons - even in dungeons I have cleared dozens of times before.

Anyone expecting to see vet trial level players and builds in vet PUG's is expecting too much.

Only problem with all this is the queue times will just be longer than they already are for DPS.

deflorate wrote: »

I personally hate it when i get queued with low level people that don't know mechanics. I try my best to explain and they still do not listen or just have a connect picking up every single thing in their room and making me deaf. I just did my vet daily for spindle 1 and people didn't know the mechanics for the boss. Literally just roll dodge and it was too complicated for them to understand.

The fact that you took the time to even briefly mention the mechanics puts you leaps and bounds ahead of most. Sounds like in this case though you just had some bad players, not necessarily bad gear or low level.

Diminish wrote: »

CP does not define a groups capability as much as some people seem to think.

I absolutely agree, but to play devil's advocate, there isn't really any other metric to measure by for this.

Diminish wrote: »

I ran vCoS with 2 different PUGs this past week that consisted of a 2 players in each group having less than 250 CP. One of which was less than 180 CP, and it was the first time the lower CP people even stepped foot in vCoS both times.

Guess what? I also ran vWGT for 2 hours the other night with cycling through multiple players ranging from 300 to 630 CP and they couldn't get beyond the inhibitor boss. CP does not define a groups capability as much as some people seem to think.

True, but people with higher CP should be more experienced =]

Annoys me to no end when someone under cp 160 gets a great drop that I would of killed for at my level. Annoys me even more when someone who is a high cp level still doesn't know what they are doing, refuses to communicate and decided to que as a tank or healer despite being a dps to avoid the wait. Oh, and light attacking and the odd arrow spray with a bow does not make a good dps. So, I would much rather have an under levelled cp player putting the effort in and learning the dungeon mechanics first then some clueless high cp player. Of course that's not always the case but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to newbies so long as they try. Rant was triggered by a few bad public dungeons runs recently, sorry

Flameheart wrote: »

..but my question to you is....why the hell have I to adapt to players - who clearly know (if they have an IQ over the "doesn't-forget-to-breathe-level") - that they aren't ready for certain instances and difficulties yet? Why never the other way round ?

How does a new player know? Once you are able to do veteran dungeons, the Dungeon Finder defaults to it. After 50 levels do you expect everyone to just know they are "supposed to" change the drop down to normal?

If you don't want to adapt to players you deem below you, then don't use Dungeon Finder.

According to your plan then grouping CP500, CP450, CP160, CP160 is better than grouping CP170, CP170, CP150, CP50.

I have personally had more problems with veterans than with lowbies. Having a high CP means you have a lot of CP points to distribute but does not guarantee that:

• You are well geared.
• You have those CP spent wisely.
• You know how to play your class.

You see, since CP are shared amoung the charaters of the account,, I often find terrible CP430s and awesome CP50s. I have been part of a group where someone voted for kick a CP50 five times in a row. Man, if you are not happy with the group, leave. ZOS should totally work on this. You should not be able to keep voting to kick someone when that failed over and over again.

With this being said, I think it would be better to try to change the grouping tool so that it creates groups with the smaller deviation possible in terms of CP. I think the second option above will have better time than the first.