[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons

kylewwefan

Allow lowbies queue to easy veteran dungeons only (with number 1 in the name)

I've mixed feelings about it, because I remember being low level and desperately wanting Valkyn Skoria helm. I still often find myself in DLC dungeons with lowbies.....it doesn't usually end well. I've a good friend who still has a VR7 Bloodspawn well, CP70 now legendary.

Karmanorway

Allow lowbies queue to easy veteran dungeons only (with number 1 in the name)

Yes lets do it, no more dps lowbies doing bow light attacks through the whole dungeons!

Magdalina

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

But how are they gonna know mechanics if they never run vet dungeons to begin with? That's exactly how you get clueless cp 160+ players. "Less than cp 160 is bad, gotta grind to cp 160...oh sh**, how do I actually play the game?!"

Normal mode will give you a good idea about the mechanics of any given encounter, the difference being that you can learn a bit as you go on normal without weighing the group down. And as I said, there is great xp to be had up to cp160 running random normals.

Normal dungeons teach you absolutely nothing about the mechanics. Only way you might actually notice something is if you either solo it or run it in really bad group with no tank, no heals and like 10k dps total.

Dlc dungeons may show you a glimpse of mechanics because you actually cannot bypass all of them there but far not all. If you happen to have just one decent dps in your group you won't even see that much.

....actually concurrent idea. Perhaps we should ban all vet players from normal dungeons so they do not interfere with lowbies learning. In this case they might actually get to see some mechanics and learn something. And vet players would always have vet dungeons...right?

Riptide

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

I think having completed all the normal dungeons should be the prerequisite to do veteran modes. It is a reasonable benchmark, it isn't prohibitive or discriminatory - but rather a sensible step.

SilverWF

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Rianai wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

What exactly I has ignored, please?

The fact that most vet dungeons can be done with a low cp player just fine (i know from my own experience, because i don't kick them) and that a player doesn't magically become better once he reaches cp160.

And who said it's undoable, not_ignoring_anything_guy?
I've sad, that doing it at HM is pretty undoable task, not all dungeons tho (but I said about it too). You didn't ignored this, right?
And if you carried that lowbies in the pretty easy encounter, doesn't means, that they has invested any notable part to the success.

No elitism here really. Just a business (gear share) and common sense (they have more SPs, probably better gear, more leveled skills, more knowledge of his own class).

I've seen a lot of elitists, who leaving with "meh, cp300 - pretty low for this, cya". But I always give a chance even to cp 160 guys. If I see, that they acting right - then it's OK. The whole dungeon would be done a bit longer than usual, but not like painful several hours with some wandering noobs, who can't even use right skills - I have this kind of experience too.

So do not mess this things, please, not only you.

HereKittehKitteh

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

As someone who has moved platforms from a 600cp acc to starting with 0, so with experience of vet dungeons while levelling new acc, I'm very firmly in the camp of just shouldnt be allowed to queue until higher cp. Cp usually goes hand in hand with exp, of course not in all cases, as some of us started on a different platform, or high cp players who are just pure trash. These days you can get 1-50 very quickly and the low cp players generally have no idea what theyre doing because they have barely any playtime because of how easy it is to level (not complaining tho xD). One time I was a dd in a group and the other dd was light bow attacking everything, I had no idea what his class even was. But I just ignored it, carried him to the end of dungeon, bless him we were all *** at one time (I mean when I was new I hard casted frag'd my way through some dungeons *cringe*) BUT if i end up in a group with low cp i never kick i always give them a few chances, most of the time they perform as expect but some are really good players, I met two friends who were low cp in dungeon finder and added them because they were so good. So it does depend on player but i think general rule of thumb should be no vet dungeons until higher level. I find the more irritating thing is players who wander into dungeons and have no idea of the mechanics (like pls google or just ask in the group chat) like I was with a 300cp doing FG2 the other day and he had absolutely no idea and just kept dying, the boss would breathe on him and he'd be dead XD

Rianai

SilverWF wrote: »

And who said it's undoable, not_ignoring_anything_guy?
I've sad, that doing it at HM is pretty undoable task, not all dungeons tho (but I said about it too). You didn't ignored this, right?

I'm talking about vet dungeons including HM (already mentioned it earlier). There are exceptions, that can be problematic (i already mentioned this too), but that's by far not the majority.

Myyth

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

The random veteran group finder is one of the worst gaming experiences of all.
The way it is now, I would say that about 50% of the groups I join are unable to complete the veteran dungeon due to low CP players that are not strong enough. It completely wastes everyone's time to go through a dungeon then have to quit half way, or even at the very end.

idk

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The moment you hit 50, you're vet. You likely have all necessary skills and passives unlocked by that point.

Not.
Or, at least, this is outdated.
At release, you were veteran at 50, because it took much longer time. You hit 50 (and Vet1) at the end of Coldharbour zone, doing all possible quests (dungeons, bosses, etc) around. And hit Vet rank cap (12, then 14, then 16...) at the end of Cadwell's Gold. I remember it at my Sorc: I got to Vet 14 while having "tamriel hero" title already and only 3 (three!) side quests left.
In the current state you reaching 50 at the end of 2nd zone, literally easy walking around nad having only half of needed to just one build Skill points and half leveled skills. You are not real veteran here. Champion - yes, veteran - not.

Since the One Tamriel released, the meaning of "veteran" must has been changed too. You can be a VETERAN only after cp160.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

CP level means nothing

Anyway, I like this.
At my 450cp I just cant reach 40k DPS even at Sorc (~30k was my best with perfect rota).
But this guy said, that you can have enough DPS, HPS or survivability even at low CP. Who the hell need that stupid CPs? Lets do ROM at cp10 - it is doable, hurray!
Lol, nice.
He able to said anything - if it will be kinda "white-forum-knight" stuff and allow him to farm stars under the name even more

Silver edited out my comment to leave the mere statement CP means nothing. I had stated with that experience matters most.

I suggest people scroll back to the full post silver quoted. Her hyper editing of the quote takes it out of context. She likes to do this because she lacks the wisdom to reply to gen comment in context.

Try again. Lol. Any player that looks back and see that I stated that experience is what matters most will understand your full of it. Lmao.

Cadbury

I'm neutral to this, but I do enjoy OP's polls. He really knows how to stir the pot

Rianai

Myyth wrote: »

The random veteran group finder is one of the worst gaming experiences of all.
The way it is now, I would say that about 50% of the groups I join are unable to complete the veteran dungeon due to low CP players that are not strong enough. It completely wastes everyone's time to go through a dungeon then have to quit half way, or even at the very end.

You must be super unlucky then, because out of all 100+ vet dungeon runs i did the last few months, all via dungeon finder, less than 10 weren't completed (and the main reason for not completing the dungeon was someone dc'ing/leaving for no reason and not finding a replacement). The level of the players didn't play any role in those failed runs. Of course some runs are awfully slow, but that happens with players of all levels. Other runs are quite decent, even with a low cp player. I had a run lately with a ~cp70 player in the group that went so smoothly, all 4 of us decided to stick together to do the second pledge. HM of course.

SilverWF

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Silver edited out my comment to leave the mere statement CP means nothing. I had stated with that experience matters most.

I suggest people scroll back to the full post silver quoted. Her hyper editing of the quote takes it out of context. She likes to do this because she lacks the wisdom to reply to gen comment in context.

Oh really, you didn't said that words?
Or you ignored my next words, that even with tons of experience something are still unreacheble because of not enough CP points?

You are acting like a kid here. I'm male. But your upset is really enjoyable

Please, go to farm postcount somewhere else, your posts adds nothing useful, really.

idk

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Jamini wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wonder, why ppl ignoring "can't share gear" problem?..

You shouldn't be doing gear farms in groupfinder, and the only reason to farm vet dungeons for gear is for Monster Helms and Jewlery.

It's literally a non-issue.

Just imagine that not all, but most veterans choose that option. Who would left in the vet queue? Lowbies and a few veterans. HM dungeons would still be undoable. Just the same as restriction, but with broken hope and worst experience added.
Now you understand why this "option" is bad?

It's funny how this statement has no basis in reality at all.

A good player (especially a tank) can outright carry mediocre/bad teams through the easier HM dungeons. I've done it.

The only dungeons that need a proper lock on them are the DLC dungeons. As those are legitimately hard enough that a low-level character that lacks passives will not be able to pass them.

Magdalina wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

But how are they gonna know mechanics if they never run vet dungeons to begin with? That's exactly how you get clueless cp 160+ players. "Less than cp 160 is bad, gotta grind to cp 160...oh sh**, how do I actually play the game?!"

Normal mode will give you a good idea about the mechanics of any given encounter, the difference being that you can learn a bit as you go on normal without weighing the group down. And as I said, there is great xp to be had up to cp160 running random normals.

Normal dungeons teach you absolutely nothing about the mechanics. Only way you might actually notice something is if you either solo it or run it in really bad group with no tank, no heals and like 10k dps total.

Dlc dungeons may show you a glimpse of mechanics because you actually cannot bypass all of them there but far not all. If you happen to have just one decent dps in your group you won't even see that much.

....actually concurrent idea. Perhaps we should ban all vet players from normal dungeons so they do not interfere with lowbies learning. In this case they might actually get to see some mechanics and learn something. And vet players would always have vet dungeons...right?

Very true that normal dungeons teach little to nothing about mechanics.

Although I'd suggest continuing to key vets players play normal dungeons since some of them seem a little challenged in vet dungeons unless they have players to carry them.

idk

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Silver edited out my comment to leave the mere statement CP means nothing. I had stated with that experience matters most.

I suggest people scroll back to the full post silver quoted. Her hyper editing of the quote takes it out of context. She likes to do this because she lacks the wisdom to reply to gen comment in context.

Oh really, you didn't said that words?
Or you ignored my next words, that even with tons of experience something are still unreacheble because of not enough CP points?

You are acting like a kid here. I'm male. But your upset is really enjoyable

Please, go to farm postcount somewhere else, your posts adds nothing useful, really.

Lol. Is that the best you can do?

Lol. I didn't say I never posted those words. Lol. You edited out where I stated experience matters most but I guess that doesn't fit your argument so you had to edit it out.

I don't understand why after well over 100 random normal dungeons I've done as a tank and only 4 or 5 didn't clear yet you have found them so challenging you felt the need to start this thread?

the_man_of_steal

Allow lowbies queue to easy veteran dungeons only (with number 1 in the name)

As a former lowbie I think allowing them to level up their undaunted is essential for the game to progress. The XP you get from the dungeons is good for gaining CP as well and as a 630 I really do enjoy the challenge of having 3 100's with me while I tank and DPS simultaneously. Yes, it sometimes gets frustrating and I have even left the team if they clearly have no concept of how to play. Yes, It has taken me way longer to do some breezy dungeons because of this. But for the most part the finder system matches me up with comparable 600's and I am content with the system. I do think it is a fair compromise to only have low leveled players allowed in the easier dungeons.

Enodoc

SilverWF wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The moment you hit 50, you're vet. You likely have all necessary skills and passives unlocked by that point.

Not.
Or, at least, this is outdated.
At release, you were veteran at 50, because it took much longer time. You hit 50 (and Vet1) at the end of Coldharbour zone, doing all possible quests (dungeons, bosses, etc) around. And hit Vet rank cap (12, then 14, then 16...) at the end of Cadwell's Gold. I remember it at my Sorc: I got to Vet 14 while having "tamriel hero" title already and only 3 (three!) side quests left.
In the current state you reaching 50 at the end of 2nd zone, literally easy walking around nad having only half of needed to just one build Skill points and half leveled skills. You are not real veteran here. Champion - yes, veteran - not.

Since the One Tamriel released, the meaning of "veteran" must has been changed too. You can be a VETERAN only after cp160.

You're confusing the literal definition of "veteran" (a person who has gained experienced in a particular field over time) with the game definition of "Veteran" (a player who has reached Level 50). They aren't interchangeable.

I would be fine with a recommended CP hint (such as, "This Dungeon is designed for Champion 160 Players" (that's 160 for SotH dungeons, it would probably be 140 for IC, and 120 for CoA II and CoH II), since that would be technically true, but there shouldn't be a hard lock on anything, since Veteran is Veteran.

QuebraRegra

M0bi wrote: »

I absolutely love it when I want to do veteran wayrest sewers and one of the dd's is cp12 and the tank is cp20....
really makes my day...

Hmm, but what if there were no CP power creep, and the boosting that ZOS had to do to siumlate progression didn't exist as it is now?

GabiAlex

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

I don't really care because I do vets only with guild mattes, but maybe a Gatekeeper like in TSW will make everyone happy, except for those that lack patience and are unwilling to learn how to play.

MyKillv2.0

Far bigger issue for me is when a DPS ques in as a healer. At least a lowbie, as a tank, I can keep up my end and teach others what to do.

Try hard who ques in as a healer/tank cannot be shown how much of a hindrance they are because they watched a YouTube Video that says " this is what the pros do"

And since this game is "play as you want" there is no real way to govern this issue.

ArchMikem

Most of the time it's not about "Can they do the Dungeon?", it's about "Can they do the Dungeon quickly?" I've been in groups with another 630 and then two lower levels and the other 630 just up and left by the second or third mob pull because it took us longer than usual to get through them. Not saying they're bad players for abandoning the group, but don't they realize it just hurts the group even worse by taking one of the 630s away from the low levels? Everyone deserves to experience the content and if we can actually complete it even if it takes longer then I'm fine with "carrying" them. (I may be end game but I'm not god mode enough to actually carry people lol)

However, that said, DLC Dungeons? No, don't let them queue until at least 160. So many times I've tried to complete Vet Cradle to get that Helm and every time there were always two or so low levels in there and we couldn't even get out of the spider caves.

radiostar

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Locking content is contra to the spirit of One Tamriel.

SilverWF

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Enodoc wrote: »

You're confusing the literal definition of "veteran" (a person who has gained experienced in a particular field over time) with the game definition of "Veteran" (a player who has reached Level 50). They aren't interchangeable.

I'm not confusing or whatever.
I'm literally want that this state has been changed, so in the game you will be allowed to de veteran stuff only after cp160.

Darkestnght

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

good point but you sound like my ex. wife and her lawyer....hahahaha

paulsimonps

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Having them grind up CP will not change their actual skill in the game, CP does not determin skill. Teach rather than prevent their partisipation, if you are not good enough to carry and or teach you are not in a place to exclude others.

Bombashaman

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

No to Elitism.

josiahva

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

You people act as if the majority of vet dungeons are hard even with low CP(10 or less) players...they arent. The DLC dungeons are an exception to this, and 3/4 can be done even with low DPS. Its no the CP I care about so much as it is the ability of the player to survive, I pug vCoS all the time and end up with players less than CP160....and can still make it through 70% of the time in that situation(vRoM not so much since its much more DPS dependent on the totem)

paulsimonps

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

If you don't want to deal with lowbies then don't fricking pug. Do it with friends and guildies. Lowbies will not be magically good players with more CP, let them play the group finder, and if you don't like grouping with them, then don't do it.

old_mufasa

Allow lowbies queue to easy veteran dungeons only (with number 1 in the name)

Krayzie wrote: »

i love getting paired with 3 wardens who have no idea what they're doing

Why would they not know what they are doing.. you think most warden players are new to ESO.. most warden players are veteran ESO players anyhow...

I have more issue with the A-holes that que up for roles they do not intended to do.. like people 630cp who que as tanks that are dps.. then precede to insult everyone saying that you don't need a tank.. then precede to die a half dozen times because they suck as dps as well and I end up having to tank the dungeon as a dps.. or having a healer that is unprepared to heal a 3 dps vet run so adding to the number of deaths.. all because some jack off dps ques a tank...

I do think that some harder dungeons should be level locked to at least CP 160 for vets.. all the DLC dungeons the "2" ones for start.. City of Ash 2 is one for sure I would like a level lock on.

idk

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

paulsimonps wrote: »

Having them grind up CP will not change their actual skill in the game, CP does not determin skill. Teach rather than prevent their partisipation, if you are not good enough to carry and or teach you are not in a place to exclude others.

So true on all accounts.

Vipstaakki

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Suggestion: Max level toons should only be allowed to do each dungeons once per day.