Grandchamp1989 wrote: »If you want to homogenize all the classes then you have to take a hard look at classes who can disengage from combat at will like Sorc and NB.
Yes Stamcro got insane defensive option and yes StamDen are great at bursting (so is Templar this patch) but they got no way of exiting unfavorable matchups like Sorcs with the Streak and NB with Cloak. They're stuck in combat until they win or die.
So if you want to homogenize the classes to it fairly and remove streak and cloak if you want Stamden and Necro to become a bucket of "meh".
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »If you want to homogenize all the classes then you have to take a hard look at classes who can disengage from combat at will like Sorc and NB.
Yes Stamcro got insane defensive option and yes StamDen are great at bursting (so is Templar this patch) but they got no way of exiting unfavorable matchups like Sorcs with the Streak and NB with Cloak. They're stuck in combat until they win or die.
So if you want to homogenize the classes to it fairly and remove streak and cloak if you want Stamden and Necro to become a bucket of "meh".
Necro and warden are the definition of homogenized classes, they're literally the mirror image of one another with different animations but their class design is the same and it's the root of many of the problems the game had since their introduction.
I'd be actually glad if we had a patch where Magsorc and Stamnb are the only issues we have.
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »If you want to homogenize all the classes then you have to take a hard look at classes who can disengage from combat at will like Sorc and NB.
Yes Stamcro got insane defensive option and yes StamDen are great at bursting (so is Templar this patch) but they got no way of exiting unfavorable matchups like Sorcs with the Streak and NB with Cloak. They're stuck in combat until they win or die.
So if you want to homogenize the classes to it fairly and remove streak and cloak if you want Stamden and Necro to become a bucket of "meh".
Necro and warden are the definition of homogenized classes, they're literally the mirror image of one another with different animations but their class design is the same and it's the root of many of the problems the game had since their introduction.
I'd be actually glad if we had a patch where Magsorc and Stamnb are the only issues we have.
Being able to choose when and how you want to engage in favorable fights and “nope” out of fights that kill you is broken.
Lets make necro less tanky and Warden less bursty but it Will cost you streak and cloak that should be deleted from the game. Its only fair.
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »If you want to homogenize all the classes then you have to take a hard look at classes who can disengage from combat at will like Sorc and NB.
Yes Stamcro got insane defensive option and yes StamDen are great at bursting (so is Templar this patch) but they got no way of exiting unfavorable matchups like Sorcs with the Streak and NB with Cloak. They're stuck in combat until they win or die.
So if you want to homogenize the classes to it fairly and remove streak and cloak if you want Stamden and Necro to become a bucket of "meh".
Necro and warden are the definition of homogenized classes, they're literally the mirror image of one another with different animations but their class design is the same and it's the root of many of the problems the game had since their introduction.
I'd be actually glad if we had a patch where Magsorc and Stamnb are the only issues we have.
Being able to choose when and how you want to engage in favorable fights and “nope” out of fights that kill you is broken.
Lets make necro less tanky and Warden less bursty but it Will cost you streak and cloak that should be deleted from the game. Its only fair.
It's not, being able to disengage at will holds the power of being overtuned but that's easily fixable by forcing those specs to stay in fights in order to get kills but that's a different discussion for a different thread
Tragically, it feels like instead they bought fully into the Nightblades burst apart everyone meme as being the PvP Status Quo.
I'll never understand the people calling for nerfs to underperforming skills, sets, or Classes, rather than calling for buffs to the things that are underperforming. People seem to forget that all the nerfs you want in PvP will translate to PvE as well, since ZOS refuses to balance the two game modes separately. People also seem to forget how ZOS likes to take a wrecking ball to things that only require a hammer, and a chainsaw to things that only require a scalpel. Most of the time people call for nerfs and the times ZOS listens, it's always overdone, and then you get people yelling "oh no that's TOO much of a nerf!" Well...you're just getting what you asked for.
This is just another example of why ZOS really does need to balance PvE and PvP separately. Things that work well for one game mode will more than likely be broken in some way, either for the better or for the worse, for the other game mode. Take Rush of Agony for example, in PvE it might annoy tanks if a DPS misuses it, but in PvP it can be used to bounce players around without giving them much of a chance to react. There are just certain sets and skills that do NOT translate well between PvE and PvP. You'd think they would expand on Battle Spirit more, but who knows, maybe the game engine can't do or handle that.
What makes stamwarden so good at self healing? Living trellis? Arctic blast? I don't play one but I have never got the impression they had any more healing than other stam classes.
TheEndBringer wrote: »Didn't you guys know that you can't talk about necros and wardens being op pay to win without one of their players complaining about shadowy disguise? 🙄
Here are facts.
Necros and Wardens are great AT EVERYTHING. They don't need to disengage with mist or invis pots because they very easily can be built to not only survive 1v10 but also murder them down.
Sorcs and NBs both have glaring weaknesses. I can get one shotted by a warden dawnbreaker or even a crit dizzy. My only defense is shadowy disguise. I normally don't even run a heal because to be optimal I can't afford the slot.
Sorcs have a lot of power and good healing but they can't take damage like warden and necros. Pop them a few times and they'll try to streak. All that does is buy them a little time. It doesn't make them immortal unless you chose not to persue.
Yes there are a few one shot sorcs running around but you don't see many because 1: it's not easy to do. 2: you sacrifice a lot to be able to land one really hard hit. 3: add those things together and you have a build most people don't find fun, ergo most won't play it that way.
Every base game class has built in weaknesses. That's not to say they are perfectly balanced but the true outliers are warden and necros.
Edit: I used to main tank Necro for sweaty trials groups, including hms. The amount of mitigation you can keep up 100% of the time is obscene.
Curious_Death wrote: »hahaha... slow clap.
*NB can one shoot ppl - have ~9k spammable with biggest survival tooltip - high risk high gain
*stamsorcs can oneshoot ppl using overload + molag kena + new moon/titanborn with mechanical acuity and vamp toggle with st4 - they re invisible...
*magsorcs - shield should be count as healing - they re immortal with high magicka ... and ofc dmg scales from magicka
BIS 1v1 re magdk - they can burn u alive with ~5k damage per second
*magcro re bis for group play - u use revive ultimate for 3 blastbones u call own = 4x blastbones and then use synergy from graveyard - ONESHOOT
*stamdens and stamcros re immortal beasts if u keep buffs up - and have best burst among all classes (not counting NB again)
stamdk - stack weapon dmg and use corrosive = bang! ur dizzyswing hits for +7k and u cannot be killed. - insane defense
magdens - weaker version of group magdk - its a worst pvp class atm - only good for killing nb's
templars have overall good this patch - stamplar lack of burst but have insane pressure and magplar is good overall.
ps. i play pvp for 4 yrs, and the balance was never good - todays its just UGLY. tbh classes starting to play second role - the 1st role and most important is to EXPLOIT gear combo with broken vampire st3. - like essence thief + vamp st3, thats why most players stick with groups - coz they dont understand how most gear works and have not enough time or gold to test every gear combo.