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Please do not kill Prismatic Onslaught like this! 😩
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Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »
There are delves and dungeons having only undead or daedra as enemies.Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »The effect was kind of too restrictive to be usefull in combat to begin with
Also it now match all other prismatic enchant
If another enchant effect is mot matching, then it should be changed, as it has nothing to do with the FG quest line.
And then what of the other dungeon? Your enchant will be utterly useless there
Also are there really people that base there build around delve exploration?
And in the other dungeon I am using another staff. That is exactly the point. Giving choices of better weapon depending on task (content) is the right way to balance in a role-playing game. Prismatic weapon for now is better than any other enchant when fighting undead or daedra.
Delves and dungeons are in the same boat. Players who do dungeons create builds for dungeons. Players who do delves create builds for delves. You may lack in support in delves, but from the damaging point of view they are the same as dungeons and prismatic enchants are better in both cases.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.3 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that this should not be changed like this. Maybe they can change the name of the current prismatic weapon enchant and introduce it again. Since i believe this enchantment is mainly used in some bosses in raids and deals good amount of damage when paired with infused trait on weapons. If this change comes to the live server like this, it will be a partial damage reduction in some trial instances.0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hi, you must be new to the game.
If you're not, then I don't know why you're surprised. They constantly change things.
Seems a weird change, but aren't they doing it for a calculation thing more than change of idea for it?
So it doesn't have to check like 4 or 5 things every time it hits something.
Either way, it's not like you spent millions on it. It cost what, like 14k to make a gold glyph of it?0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »And then what of the other dungeon? Your enchant will be utterly useless there
Some of us own more than one weapon in the game.Either way, it's not like you spent millions on it. It cost what, like 14k to make a gold glyph of it?
Hakeijo runes are 30-40k, Kutas about 3k on PC. Complete glyphs run 40-50k. Price should start dropping as people begin unloading them before the update drops.
Edited by Jaraal on July 13, 2021 10:31AM1 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It kills build variety and gearng up a certain way for certain fighrs, which was fun to do, imo. The reasoning that the server has to check constantly whether the target is undead is a coding issue, and I'd rather they'd work on that than kill oblivion damage and whole fighter's guild tree. It completely devalues obvlion weapons, kills the fun of building specifically for some fights, limits variety... all because they cannot fix their performance issues. It's a bad reason to justify changing how the enchatment works. We were promised performance fixes, but not by butchering the game itself.4 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »And then what of the other dungeon? Your enchant will be utterly useless there
Some of us own more than one weapon in the game.Either way, it's not like you spent millions on it. It cost what, like 14k to make a gold glyph of it?
Hakeijo runes are 30-40k, Kutas about 3k on PC. Complete glyphs run 40-50k. Price should start dropping as people begin unloading them before the update drops.
Hakeijo prices are not going to drop. They are high in price because people buy them for the armor effect, not the weapon effect. Using them for the weapon effect is incredibly niche at this point, and the tri-stat effect is used far more.1 -
ajkb78✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I can't believe they made this change. The "old" prismatic glyphs had a very niche use, and that's been obliterated.
Yeah, and the change is to another glyph no one will ever use.
*Toss that in with the potion jewelry glyph I guess?*
:Shrug: I have a full set of potion cooldown jewelry on my bombblade that I switch to to help with ultigen between bombs. It's not totally useless.
I guess this change was similar to the fighters guild passive change, to cut down server calculations: rather than checking for X large number of types of undead and daedra they have a much simpler set of operations to perform. But outside of certain parts of trials it was pretty rarely used, so it doesn't seem like the overall number of PO glyph calculations at any time would be very great. Maybe they were worried people were using it to cheese Vaults of Madness XDEdited by ajkb78 on July 13, 2021 2:38PM1 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But outside of certain parts of trials it was pretty rarely used, so it doesn't seem like the overall number of PO glyph calculations at any time would be very great. Maybe they were worried people were using it to cheese Vaults of Madness XD
I used it in lots of areas. I think anyone who enjoyed gearing up like a witcher would eventually get into it. I even made a witcher guy around it. 😪
I hate to say it but this is probably just to help create a tanky werewolf scrublord meta in pvp. It'll be fun to be right about that. 😑0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »But outside of certain parts of trials it was pretty rarely used, so it doesn't seem like the overall number of PO glyph calculations at any time would be very great. Maybe they were worried people were using it to cheese Vaults of Madness XD
I used it in lots of areas. I think anyone who enjoyed gearing up like a witcher would eventually get into it. I even made a witcher guy around it. 😪
I hate to say it but this is probably just to help create a tanky werewolf scrublord meta in pvp. It'll be fun to be right about that. 😑
I'm not sure about werewolf being a meta this patch, but there was indeed a lot of us who included it in our toolkits since it's release. It's something that there was a lot of us using far more than resource return glyphs. Those really struggling with resource returns tend to use those returns, but once they find all the pieces that click in their build they often start building their weapons/glyph/poison kits.
I know a lot of people who used it in PvP. Especially back when Torugs was bugged. It sucked being a vampire back then and you got caught by that.0 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remember that the Fighter's Guild questline more or less revolves around making a prismatic weapon. The old effect really fits the narrative purpose more, but I can't deny that the new effect is more consistent with other enchantments and is easier on performance.
I totally forgot about the parallels between the fighter's guild storyline, Sees All Colours, and the prismatic weapon. What a mess now. That quest needs to be changed.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Very nice patch notes but this change was sad.
Instead they should make it deal flame, frost, and shock damage.
Example:
Flame Enchant = Deals 3000 Flame Damage
Prismatic Enchant = Deals 1000 Flame, Shock, and Frost Damage
And in a future chapter add a new glyph that provides poison, disease, bleed damage all at once.5 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Very nice patch notes but this change was sad.
Instead they should make it deal flame, frost, and shock damage.
Example:
Flame Enchant = Deals 3000 Flame Damage
Prismatic Enchant = Deals 1000 Flame, Shock, and Frost Damage
And in a future chapter add a new glyph that provides poison, disease, bleed damage all at once.
It would be weak as infused boosts higher damage numbers more than lower damage numbers. Your example of prismatic enchant would be doing less damage under infused trait, and torug's pact set, than that regular flame enchant.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How so...?Red_Feather wrote: »Very nice patch notes but this change was sad.
Instead they should make it deal flame, frost, and shock damage.
Example:
Flame Enchant = Deals 3000 Flame Damage
Prismatic Enchant = Deals 1000 Flame, Shock, and Frost Damage
And in a future chapter add a new glyph that provides poison, disease, bleed damage all at once.
It would be weak as infused boosts higher damage numbers more than lower damage numbers. Your example of prismatic enchant would be doing less damage under infused trait, and torug's pact set, than that regular flame enchant.
Flame = 3000
Prismatic = 1000/1000/1000 ... = 3000
So with a buff of 50%, it becomes:
Flame = 4500
Prismatic = 1500/1500/1500 ... = 4500
It’s like the Force Shock ability but for glyphs. Same damage unless you mean Flame is buffed by engulfing, encratis, etc? The point of this is to have a proc chance for all three status effects to fit the “tristat” theme of prismatic enchants.
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Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How so...?Red_Feather wrote: »Very nice patch notes but this change was sad.
Instead they should make it deal flame, frost, and shock damage.
Example:
Flame Enchant = Deals 3000 Flame Damage
Prismatic Enchant = Deals 1000 Flame, Shock, and Frost Damage
And in a future chapter add a new glyph that provides poison, disease, bleed damage all at once.
It would be weak as infused boosts higher damage numbers more than lower damage numbers. Your example of prismatic enchant would be doing less damage under infused trait, and torug's pact set, than that regular flame enchant.
Flame = 3000
Prismatic = 1000/1000/1000 ... = 3000
So with a buff of 50%, it becomes:
Flame = 4500
Prismatic = 1500/1500/1500 ... = 4500
It’s like the Force Shock ability but for glyphs. Same damage unless you mean Flame is buffed by engulfing, encratis, etc? The point of this is to have a proc chance for all three status effects to fit the “tristat” theme of prismatic enchants.
I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking.0 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »The least harmful change would be converting one damage type glyph to the other one, prismatic damage now being shock, fire and frost for example, retaining some usefulness. Converting it into resources restore is a slap really.
This would be the obvious solution. Do less damage than a dedicated +Element glyph, but of more types.
Too obvious for some.
I main tank, and even I don't especially need all three resources at once from a glyph. Plus you know, the glyph requires you TO DO DAMAGE TO BENEFIT SO NOT REALLY FOR A TANK ANYWAY.Edited by Fennwitty on July 14, 2021 2:58AMPC NA1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Barely anybody uses those silly absorb resource glyphs as it is because there's way better options out there. A tri absorb will be even worse because obviously the values on each resource will need to be lower.
Bad change, and one which makes zero sense no matter how ZOS spins it. Change the name of it to Repel Undead (TES spell) or something to not confuse it with the tri stat prismatics.
Edit: Thinking about it, perhaps a better option would be to just add a new Holy or Silver damage glyph, similar to other damage glyphs, but increases damage against undead/werewolf opponents by 60%
To go further, the FG abilities could deal this new silver damage, which from a lore point makes a lot of sense since they used silver to hunt vampires.
Edited by Alucardo on July 14, 2021 4:17AM3 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a big blow to DPS running it in n/v Maw of Lorkhaj.
It was a fantastic boost of damage to ALL of the Dro-m'Athra enemies throughout the whole Trial.
*edit* dammit, misquote
Yeah, I had multiple staves for this and also for later stages in RG.
The only real use I could maybe see for this is an infused enchant on a front bar for those tanks with resource issues.Edited by pklemming on July 14, 2021 4:21AM0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Barely anybody uses those silly absorb resource glyphs as it is because there's way better options out there. A tri absorb will be even worse because obviously the values on each resource will need to be lower.
Bad change, and one which makes zero sense no matter how ZOS spins it. Change the name of it to Repel Undead (TES spell) or something to not confuse it with the tri stat prismatics.
Edit: Thinking about it, perhaps a better option would be to just add a new Holy or Silver damage glyph, similar to other damage glyphs, but increases damage against undead/werewolf opponents by 60%
To go further, the FG abilities could deal this new silver damage, which from a lore point makes a lot of sense since they used silver to hunt vampires.
Yeah, that edit was what I was thinking of last night. I mean sure, we still have FG abilities, but the silver weapons were pretty staple in some of the other games for killing Undead and Werewolves. :'(1 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Good point. So it cost you like 60k. Still a tiny amount of gold.
Plus the staff isn't useless. You can change the glyph
Changes like this happen ALL the time.
I don't like the change either, tri restore will be crap.
But, people are acting like it's three years of work down the drain.Edited by Brrrofski on July 14, 2021 7:55AM0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Barely anybody uses those silly absorb resource glyphs as it is because there's way better options out there. A tri absorb will be even worse because obviously the values on each resource will need to be lower.
Bad change, and one which makes zero sense no matter how ZOS spins it. Change the name of it to Repel Undead (TES spell) or something to not confuse it with the tri stat prismatics.
Edit: Thinking about it, perhaps a better option would be to just add a new Holy or Silver damage glyph, similar to other damage glyphs, but increases damage against undead/werewolf opponents by 60%
To go further, the FG abilities could deal this new silver damage, which from a lore point makes a lot of sense since they used silver to hunt vampires.
Prismatic weapon has that name on Live and that effect on Live, because it is the weapon imbued by Meridia made to combat the forces of Molag Bal. It is not an ordinary weapon of FG, it is the result of Meridia influence (through Sees-All-Colors) on FG (as well as the FG ultimate and other skills).The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.6 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And I completely agree. They do it all the time. They can't fix something so just change it.
I'm just saying, using the cost of it is a bit of a weird reason to not to change it as it's a tiny factor.
Protests that flavour and uniqueness being removed are completely valid.
ZOS aren't changing this to add a new glyph, so people asking to add a new one is irrelevant. They think it'll help performance, so the change is more about removing checks than adding a new glyph.
They do this all the time and they rarely ever listen to player's protests against these changes.
I didn't use prismatic enchants on weapons, but I know some did, and it was useful on some situations, so it is a shame to see it go.
Tri restore will be pretty bad. Maybe tanks will use it, but only on a 1h so it's weak. If you're a DPS and need some sustain, you"ll use a mag/Stam one. Even for pvp, I can't see people using it as the heal will be halved so will be totally irrelevant.Edited by Brrrofski on July 14, 2021 8:58AM1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »
How so...?Red_Feather wrote: »Very nice patch notes but this change was sad.
Instead they should make it deal flame, frost, and shock damage.
Example:
Flame Enchant = Deals 3000 Flame Damage
Prismatic Enchant = Deals 1000 Flame, Shock, and Frost Damage
And in a future chapter add a new glyph that provides poison, disease, bleed damage all at once.
It would be weak as infused boosts higher damage numbers more than lower damage numbers. Your example of prismatic enchant would be doing less damage under infused trait, and torug's pact set, than that regular flame enchant.
Flame = 3000
Prismatic = 1000/1000/1000 ... = 3000
So with a buff of 50%, it becomes:
Flame = 4500
Prismatic = 1500/1500/1500 ... = 4500
It’s like the Force Shock ability but for glyphs. Same damage unless you mean Flame is buffed by engulfing, encratis, etc? The point of this is to have a proc chance for all three status effects to fit the “tristat” theme of prismatic enchants.
I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking.
Lol it’s ok!0 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree they should not touch the current enchantment. make a new rune if you want something. I have a vampire hunter build that's gonna get gutted to death by this.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to agree they should not touch the current enchantment. make a new rune if you want something.
Unfortunately, their goal was not to create something new, but to take something away. Apparently a few niche build players were wrecking server performance because the glyph had to check a list to see if a mob was undead or daedra. At least that's what they told us. Probably in the realm of .001% of all the calculations necessary to run a zone, but I'm long past trying to make sense of a lot of the changes they make.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Probably was easier to change an existing glyph than introduce a new one with a new mat.I drink and I stream things.0 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree they should not touch the current enchantment. make a new rune if you want something.
Unfortunately, their goal was not to create something new, but to take something away. Apparently a few niche build players were wrecking server performance because the glyph had to check a list to see if a mob was undead or daedra. At least that's what they told us. Probably in the realm of .001% of all the calculations necessary to run a zone, but I'm long past trying to make sense of a lot of the changes they make.
I rember in the old construction sets they just had a check box for that [snip]. like: undead ? check
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 1, 2021 11:41AM1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's an idea: instead of gutting Prismatic Onslaught because it makes undead/daedra checks, why not change all these garbage stack sets they keep releasing that have to check how many stacks you have every single second you are in combat (and some out of combat as well)!
This is why removing an established playstyle that has been working fine for years is so insulting. It's like cutting a single blade of grass in a lawn that is full of rapidly growing new weeds. Do you really think these new anti-ball group sets that have to constantly make many aoe and other conditional checks are less demanding on the infrastructure than an undead check? And why on earth would a glyph have to check a list of 23 conditions when the only condition necessary is "is target undead or daedra y/n"? What sort of coding hoops are we jumping through, anyway?
Edited by Jaraal on July 31, 2021 9:46PM1
