coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

seanolan wrote: »

I will admit, I was hoping for something more along the lines of Skyrim or Oblivion. It's similar, but I miss a bunch of things from those games. I understand the limitations, but I admit to feeling some disappointment. I still enjoy the game, but not as much as I had hoped to.

Single-player mechanics generally don't work in MMOs.

And yet they attempted to make a single player mmo.

Like you said, it didn't work. Bit of a disaster really. Not a good mmo and not a good single player game.

I love it when people say stuff like this. You're opinion is just that, an opinion. Therefore and most importantly meaningless due to the fact that 99 percent of the people that play the game do not come here. Also, the main reason they don't is because they are online playing the game instead. Bye Bye.

I started a new character the beginning areas are freakin packed full of people. You are right these forums represent a very small minority. I think if they maybe made the forums more user friendly might get more people here. Personally as far as layout these forums are pretty weak.

@robby41525_ESO‌
Interesting. You say say this wasn't an insult yet here you and your friends are talking about how they "failed" because it isn't all you thought it would be.

I agree that there's a lot of bugs and things that need to be worked out. But I have confidence that they will be fixed and it will become more polished.

What you posted IS insulting. These devs aren't just slaves meant to cater to our every whim and desire. These are real people. Most people go into jobs like this because it is their passion and what they love doing. They spent a lot of time and care and energy on this. A LOT. Just because there is bugs or things that didn't live up to your desires or your friends, it doesn't mean they didn't put a lot of love and work into this game.

Here you are, stepping all over a creation that they are passionate about and proud of and people like you come stomping in screaming like a bunch of kids that you got the chocolate bar with caramel instead of toffee.

Your post is nothing BUT insulting.

If you still can't understand what I'm saying, think of it like this:

You all day chopping veggies, meats, creating amazing what you are aiming for as a wonderful meal for your spouse. You're excited, you're proud of it, you can't wait for her to taste it and show her what you've created for her. When she gets home she tears it apart. She tells you that you FAILED because maybe the vegetables weren't as crispy as she thought they'd be. Maybe the meat wasn't as perfectly tender as expected. Maybe there's a sauce and it has a little bit more sage flavour to it when she was hoping for dill or garlic or anything else. So she tells you "I don't mean to be insulting, but you failed".

Think about it.

As for @DanteYoda‌ ...Well you said the community is terrible. We're part of it. Help make it better. WE are the ones who make the community. Not everyone else. You and I both are included in that.

TL;DR: Read the whole thing.

There is an old saying about Microsoft, 'Wait for after the second major patch, until then it's Beta'.

ESO has a great base, do they still need to work on a few things? Sure, but they still have time and the will to improve things, I like most of what they have done.

Take a que from MS and wait till after the second major patch before final judgement.

lol love how these posts are titled by the users mentality that assumes we are all thinking the same as him/her haha!

....this game is better than I expected!

Csub wrote: »

@Singular: So for you an MMO is only good if it has a perfect grouping tool? Without it it's not even an MMO?

You're taking my comments a bit far. There's probably no such thing as 'perfect' in any mmo.

We have a very poor grouping tool. We are given three choices: group w/friends, be placed randomly into some group, or scream out in /zone chat. On top of that, we have the problems, mentioned over and over again, caused by differential phasing.

Zenimax polished a lot in this game - they could provide a better grouping tool. And I'm surprised they didn't.

Are white papers and best practices not used in gaming? What's the problem here?

tbh i can see why there are complaints but i cant agree with them this is still fundamentally an Elder Scrolls game, and that aside a very strong mmo. I feel however the non mmo crowd expected a "co-op skyrim" with pvp bolted onto it and the old school mmo players expected what their comfortable with from previous mmo's (power creep with gears/farmable bosses or instances) but with a elder scrolls back drop allow me to explain:

1st of all the heart of an elder scroll game is the development of you're toon in all incarnations the primary focus was "play your way" this still exists sure there are 4 classes but that in no way dictates how you need to play ur toon just offers a few extra tools that may or may not be suited to how you already like to play, not so different from Morrowind were at the start of the game you're given a multitude of optional classes or choice to create a custom which was streamlined later and dropped in skyrim- making ESO pretty consistent its a new game with new method of setting up ur character at start but still holds true to player choosing how it develops ( on a side note this also makes for the most balanced of systems as no class can really be the most OP as each class has alternate options to preform the same task/role for every tanking/dps/healing ability one gets there is a viable alternate option through either guild/weapon/world/alliance skill paths )

Gear: this seems to be one of the real gripes "the drops/loot is awful" now for myself and my friends who played the previous games this baffles us, it equally baffles a few of my friends who this is the 1st mmo they've played seriously, why is this? Well I cant say for sure for all the different alliances but there are npc's who in the starting area's pretty much come right out and say "sure you can find/buy nice things but the best is always crafted". And given that on average it takes me 20mins of running about to get everything i need to make a new set of gear its not exactly hard for some1 or their friend to do this. This again if we're really honest with ourselves is also very close to the single player elder scroll experience sure as we're lvl'ing we grab w/e shiny pice of kit comes our way but by time it comes to the end most ppl are sat in the ebony/glass/daedric/dragon gears they collected mats for and forged,honed and enchanted themselves...why cos sure you can find/buy nice stuff but in the end the best is what you make

PVE been too liner: im sorry but this is an story driven rpg and all stories run along a liner path- beginning-middle-end what made the Elder Scrolls games so fun was that you could at anytime just walk off and start new stories by progressing along the other other quest lines, as its the most popular to date i'll use skyrim as an example. You had the main dragon born story: you learn your a dragonborn & what this means, you fight dragons, you fight the big bad dragon, end. the civil war: you learn skyrims at war, you pick a side, you fight for that saide,end and then in-between all this you have the random encounters various guilds and general running about hitting stuff in the face or setting it on fire. This is still in ESO you still have these main quest lines with sub-quests along with all the side stories. Crucially there is still that "discovery" element by which if you want to find all these different elements all these new little stories you have to go find them, unlike every other mmo i have played i dont just hit a given lvl and then BOOm i have this magic list of npc's offerng quests i actually have to encounter most of them before im aware the quest even exists, the "available quests" tab in the quest box which most often pre lists the rewards/exp i gain is a feature im glad to be shot of I'm not sayin im the most hardcore rpg'er (no idea if thats right) but i do like to have some immersion and this coming across quest givers as i find them rarther than been handed a list is a fundamental feature of all Elder Scrolls games to break the feeling of constantly been pushed in 1 direction not to mention there all voice acted and its not a tiny text box that rarely even has to be read to successfully complete w/e shopping list if items im been required to fetch- and sure there isnt as many alternate choices to complete these quests or as many dialogue options as you find in a single player Elder Scrolls game but this is'nt a single player it's an mmo and vs the common 2 options of either accept/decline its bounds ahead of what i've seen to date

Instanced Quest Zones: "eew this is fail i cant do this with my high lvl buddy who completed this zone last week" ok that might not be fair of every1 but this is one area were we have to step back and be realistic. In the single player games you have an effect on the world around you, youre actions change stuff be it a town full of people gettin killed by werewolves are saved, or half a cities populace are murdered in their sleep when we do this in the single player games it has a permanent effect. And with this been a Elder Scrolls game we quite rightly expect this to remain true. By instancing the zones this is the most effective way of doing this so everybody can still have the option to make that change other wise the town you've just saved from those werewolves would still be full of the critters or it'd simply be a constant race for who get there 1st gets to actually compleate the quest and scerw any1 lagging behind. If this was simply a co-op game were you can jump in to help out a friend or play through the game together sure it could be left how it is in the game but as we know this game is populated by a great deal of people so compromise has to be made this keeps the essance of what the game should be while allowing it to remain playable on mass. There is still the option of grouping up with friends for all of the different dungeons/world bosses/gates and what with mmo's been intended as social games maybe talking and teaming up with the players in the same stage of a zoned quest area as yourself

Sub's suck f2p OGTFO: just no.. A game like this has to make money if you want the continued quality service (b4 you scoff i've seen games that spend yrs in beta and bug/exploit fixes that took 2yrs b4 been partially fixed) and if they chose the f2p path ever you will very soon find out why so few ppl stick with f2p mmo's for any length of time plus we only need to look at 2 of the most succesful mmorpg's to date WoW and EVE both of which are sub's to show that with sub's you simply get a much betr service and far superior game in the long run. Then there is that final and most dirty taboo of the f2p model....cash shop gear when a game turns from f2p to pay2win. I wont say that I dont think they couldnt look at their payment plans but im more than happy spending the £7 a month for a fair in game system were every1 has equal opportunity for gears/power as every1 else than opposed to the games i've seen were end lvl content and pvp is only truly accessible to those willing to sink $100's a month to compete or turn farming/merchanting into a part time job rarther than just play for fun

well i could say more but i thiank those of you who have read this wall of txt I think if players took a more objectional veiw to this game they'd see what a gem it is and how well it could develop into THE GAME

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like people are basically saying "I dont like other players in my mmos!".

Actually, the phasing in the game makes eso the anti-mmo of the year. Grouping with others who aren't at the same stages of quest chains gives you vanishing group members or bugged out quests. Sometimes just being in another's phasing zone causes errors. It really makes you not want to group with random players for fear of being bugged out by the phasing.

After months of running into the same problems in beta, I expected the same in the game at release and unfortunately I was right. I expected to play eso mainly as a single player game and so far it has met my expectations. That may be why I am less disgruntled than many others here in the forums.

Btw, Blizzard ran into problems with their phasing in Icecrown during Wrath of the Lich King back in 2008. It took them a while before they got the grouping problem fixed. Hopefully for eso, that portion of history also repeats itself.

I have not had any problems grouping.

You didn't have any bugged quests while grouped? Amazing.

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

watched that one youtube video, instantly got some nice ideas of how cool teso could be if it was a true sandbox and then shook my head over the MMO gaming market and the fact that devs will keep making themeparks and wasting tons of money on something that wont work in the way they dream of.

stupid devs.

Actually the devs have no control over what they have to make. its the higher ups who give them their task. i find it funny all these people crying and sobbing yet they know NOTHING of how the gaming industry works. As for this not being "skyrim online" all i can say to that is..NO CRAP if that was the case the mmo would be so unbalanced that no one would even WANT to pvp, you would have actual players using bots to level skill trees and there would be no npcs in any of the towns

Csub wrote: »

@ignatz22 so your problems, in short, stem from the fact that an Elder Scrolls MMO is exactly what it suggests - an MMO, with other people around. In the single player games you could also just decide to wait a week or so for resources to respond, or a month for dungeons to reset. I am surprised how no one brought that up yet that they think this feature is missing.
Of course NPCs won't sell resources, why would we gather them then? And which mmo has npcs to sell all the resources and still manages to have an economy?

Not really; I played Planet Calypso for a bit, and although we were all in the same area, resources and NPC opponents re-spawned much faster, allowing us to either avoid getting in one another's way or collect the same end-quest items after less time than this took to read. Other MMOs adjusted the spawn times for the number of players in the zone and the need for the items. This game is regulating those times to discourage Harvesters, but as they make a Real-World profit for their efforts, they merely lengthen the time players have to invest to collect what they need in this time/zone competition. Anyone choosing to buy resources is making collecting them harder for regular players.

No, the issue isn't waiting a week, it's waiting 10 minutes and having multiple others all standing in the same area jumping on the same Iron Ore or Jute. In an economy, if demand outstrips supply, prices go UP, and this creates a market for sellers who have the time to "wait out" casual players and get the re-spawns. If they stay in one zone, harvesting, they can then sell these resources others must buy because they don't want to waste real-time to collect them in this competition.

Yes, I'm sure someone thought of your suggestion. He or she is in Marketing, and they operate under the assumption that if a player wants 200 Iron to get to the next Blacksmithing level but can't BUY or Collect it in the time they have to spend online, they'll have to spend more subscription time to get what they want.
It's your choice. In Skyrim I didn't have the competition, but I wasn't paying for the wait to get the items, either.
THUS the conclusion this is an MMO, yes, but less an Elder Scrolls game than an MMO.

And yes, Calypso did not have vendors selling resources; it allowed PLAYERS the ability to learn, collect and set up stores (bought with in-game currency) for other players to buy items.
It's been done, but not here.
The problem I alluded to is that this makes playing the game and leveling the skills a longer process than it should be. I shouldn't be in competition for Tutorial leveling.
...And if/as I AM, I don't see paying for the privilege of waiting in line.

This is an artificial, controlled economy. Vendors are evolving outside the Guild structure because it isn't (obviously) meeting the need, and the reaction to stop these "Black Market" harvester/vendors negatively affects players.

Again, if you can't see this and you're fine with it, Great. I'm not the only one who's complained about being in a zone at times when there is simply nothing to collect.

Bots abound because there ARE not enough resources, so the ones that exist are valuable enough for someone to take the time to BOT/Farm and sell. If I could buy them from the ESO in-game vendors, there would be no market for the Farmed ones. It's a logical consequence of the way the economy was designed, and yet it screams of a lack of foresight and management.

I shouldn't CARE if other players are in my Zone in PvE. but it has an impact.

if you have personal issues and gripes with TESO,... STOP PLAYING IT, nuff said!

wrlifeboil wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like people are basically saying "I dont like other players in my mmos!".

Actually, the phasing in the game makes eso the anti-mmo of the year. Grouping with others who aren't at the same stages of quest chains gives you vanishing group members or bugged out quests. Sometimes just being in another's phasing zone causes errors. It really makes you not want to group with random players for fear of being bugged out by the phasing.

After months of running into the same problems in beta, I expected the same in the game at release and unfortunately I was right. I expected to play eso mainly as a single player game and so far it has met my expectations. That may be why I am less disgruntled than many others here in the forums.

Btw, Blizzard ran into problems with their phasing in Icecrown during Wrath of the Lich King back in 2008. It took them a while before they got the grouping problem fixed. Hopefully for eso, that portion of history also repeats itself.

I have not had any problems grouping.

You didn't have any bugged quests while grouped? Amazing.

Ive played to vr3 on one character and in 30s and 40s on a couple others. Some quests that are bugged regardless yes I did have issues with. Have we had to play around with leadership to all get in the same zone? Sure. This is all minor stuff.

I guess some players have greater tolerance for that sort of thing than others. Judging from the forums, I think we know how more than a few gamers feel about that.

But true, not everyone is as sensitive about bugs in games. I guess it is more accurate to look at the big picture. We should have a better gauge of that in about a week when monthly subscriptions start going into effect for the first wave of players.

Do people who played all the es games remember all the bugs in those games. I kept those dang instruments in my inventory all through skyrim, and couldn't complete some quests because I picked up stuff to early. If you search the wiki any quest in skyrim, oblivion, or morrowind they all have a bug section in them. Atleast all the patches for eso are coming from the developers not from some guy In His basement. People don't talk about that but if you cant complete one quest amidst a thousands in eso it's the end of the world.

people today are too judgemental!

Foul_Corsair wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If people came to ESO expecting a single player experience no wonder they are disappointed.

I came to it expecting group game but found I've not needed to group with a single person yet. Its all been single player so far and thats a shame.

Im curious how you did all the private dungeons solo?

Apart from the thought I have in my earlier post, I think with the upcoming addition of crime system and other future contents players will see the more depth TESO offers. In short, the current TESO we are seeing right now is just a 'teaser' version to the real TESO that we can expect.

This is just plain a great game, as is, and barely out of the box, it will only get better and better. I am glad its different than were I came from (LOTRO), and its ALL new. If I wanted the same thing, I wouldn't have changed games. I feel challenged here, since I didn't do the Betas and starting from scratch. We are very fortunate as MMO players to have this as a choice. And, I like the community in the game, so far have amassed a new set of friends.