Something has to be done about the fake tank/healer plague, enough is enough.

ThePianist · May 2021

I still tank in vet content pugs. It’s more fun and challenging and I’m more lenient to random people’s mistakes.

I’ll shoot where it hurts and I know this is going to hurt. Some of you end game players, are exhausted with running with the same guildmates. Especially when they mess up and your blood starts to boil. Why is this? It’s because you’ve known this person and you know what to expect but they let you down. Well known end game guilds (insert name here) that are always at full capacity but can’t even get an easy vet raid together like vet hel ra because of the built up tensions and toxicity within the guild. Y’all know exactly what I’m talking about.

The main problem is teaching new tanks. You will get a lot of crap for it. “Wasting other people’s time”, I don’t care about your time, if you want to leave, leave. I’m teaching this new tank here lol.

Why not just run vet content with friends or guilds? That’s not the solution for everyone. That only time I’ve personally seen an organized raid or dungeon group, is when someone is paying for an achievement, skin, personality run. These hustlers will get up at 3am in the morning. Aside from that, when the two moons align on the fifth day of winter...it’s just better to pug.

Agenericname · May 2021

Anonx31st wrote: »

An easy solution to solve this problem is to only make the normal random daily for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran daily would be for players that are at max level. Since veteran dallies and hm's need a real tank to complete when pugging. Additionally, a tank could get a daily incentive bonus reward for queing as a tank using the lfg tool.

That's an absolutely horrible idea. CP isn't an indication of skill. Not every CP 1k player out there can do vet dungeons, for various reasons, much less a CP 50 who's still new to the game. Not everyone wants the challenge of veteran dungeons, especially in the random queue where you could get Stone Garden or Fungal Grotto.

Anonx31st · May 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

An easy solution to solve this problem is to only make the normal random daily for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran daily would be for players that are at max level. Since veteran dallies and hm's need a real tank to complete when pugging. Additionally, a tank could get a daily incentive bonus reward for queing as a tank using the lfg tool.

That's an absolutely horrible idea. CP isn't an indication of skill. Not every CP 1k player out there can do vet dungeons, for various reasons, much less a CP 50 who's still new to the game. Not everyone wants the challenge of veteran dungeons, especially in the random queue where you could get Stone Garden or Fungal Grotto.

Who said anything about CP? I said lvl 50, L2R

Max CP and Max level are two different things lol. However, since you are having trouble let me reiterate it for you. The normal dungeon daily reward should be tied for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran dungeon daily reward should be tied to players that are lvl 50 (aka max level). Fake tanks are only in normal dungeons when pugging, when doing veteran hm content, dps cannot fake tank in pugs.

Xebov · May 2021

Anonx31st wrote: »

An easy solution to solve this problem is to only make the normal random daily for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran daily would be for players that are at max level. Since veteran dallies and hm's need a real tank to complete when pugging. Additionally, a tank could get a daily incentive bonus reward for queing as a tank using the lfg tool.

So just to get you right. I currently do random normal with the dungeon finder and i frequently get DDs that dont even deal anything close to 15k per player. Your idea is now to force me into doing it on vet, with the same no damage randoms that have no ideas about mechanics and you think you could create an incentive for me to queue? You want to drain all the ramaining tanks from the queue?

Your idea is a prime example of solving the problem by punishing the remaining tanks even more. You try to solve the problem of DDs with complete disregard for the problems of tanks. We are not your slaves you know?

Anonx31st wrote: »

Fake tanks are only in normal dungeons when pugging, when doing veteran hm content, dps cannot fake tank in pugs.

That confirms it.

Agenericname · May 2021

Anonx31st wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

An easy solution to solve this problem is to only make the normal random daily for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran daily would be for players that are at max level. Since veteran dallies and hm's need a real tank to complete when pugging. Additionally, a tank could get a daily incentive bonus reward for queing as a tank using the lfg tool.

That's an absolutely horrible idea. CP isn't an indication of skill. Not every CP 1k player out there can do vet dungeons, for various reasons, much less a CP 50 who's still new to the game. Not everyone wants the challenge of veteran dungeons, especially in the random queue where you could get Stone Garden or Fungal Grotto.

Who said anything about CP? I said lvl 50, L2R Max CP and Max level are two different things lol. However, since you are having trouble let me reiterate it for you. The normal dungeon daily reward should be tied for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran dungeon daily reward should be tied to players that are lvl 50 (aka max level). Fake tanks are only in normal dungeons when pugging, when doing veteran hm content, dps cannot fake tank in pugs.

Oh, I understood. Its just not a good idea. But, for the sake of the argument let me put my personal feelings side. It was DOA because ZOS is going the opposite direction. They have made the game even more accessible to casual players by putting rewards in normal content that were previously restricted to veteran with barely a discernable difference between the two. See vMA and vDSA weapons, or any perfected and non-perfected gear.

Not only is the gear extremely close, but there isn't a difference between a RND and RVD. ZOS has created a scenario where the only people that play in veteran content on a regular basis want to be there.

So, no, ZOS isn't going to do this. And if you really want to know why, see the below quote.

Xebov wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

An easy solution to solve this problem is to only make the normal random daily for players that are under lvl 50 and the veteran daily would be for players that are at max level. Since veteran dallies and hm's need a real tank to complete when pugging. Additionally, a tank could get a daily incentive bonus reward for queing as a tank using the lfg tool.

So just to get you right. I currently do random normal with the dungeon finder and i frequently get DDs that dont even deal anything close to 15k per player. Your idea is now to force me into doing it on vet, with the same no damage randoms that have no ideas about mechanics and you think you could create an incentive for me to queue? You want to drain all the ramaining tanks from the queue?

Your idea is a prime example of solving the problem by punishing the remaining tanks even more. You try to solve the problem of DDs with complete disregard for the problems of tanks. We are not your slaves you know?

Anonx31st wrote: »

Fake tanks are only in normal dungeons when pugging, when doing veteran hm content, dps cannot fake tank in pugs.

That confirms it.

If you think tanks are in short supply now, let ZOS enact something like this and they'll be on the verge of extinction in the queue. Fake tanks do not displace real tanks. They fill a vacuum. That vacuum is there because few want to queue. Forcing us to play with people that not only didn't want to be there, but are not able to perform at that level, would send even more into premades.

Xebov · May 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

If you think tanks are in short supply now, let ZOS enact something like this and they'll be on the verge of extinction in the queue. Fake tanks do not displace real tanks. They fill a vacuum. That vacuum is there because few want to queue. Forcing us to play with people that not only didn't want to be there, but are not able to perform at that level, would send even more into premades.

Maybe you should have quoted the other guy instead of me

Agenericname · May 2021

Xebov wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

If you think tanks are in short supply now, let ZOS enact something like this and they'll be on the verge of extinction in the queue. Fake tanks do not displace real tanks. They fill a vacuum. That vacuum is there because few want to queue. Forcing us to play with people that not only didn't want to be there, but are not able to perform at that level, would send even more into premades.

Maybe you should have quoted the other guy instead of me

No, I meant to. It referenced your post. Read the line above it.

coletas · May 2021

Lol, more challenge, more fun. Maybe if lots of superdps guys shut up their big mouths would be more tanks. I like to play as tank but lots of times you have to read in chat an impolite pewpew kid how you should play, or directly insulting when someone makes mistakes. Of course if i see insults to me or others i direcly quit with no explanations. When people says that PvP is toxic... Lol... Is usually MUCH more fun to play with lowlevels than with veteran heroes... And usually all polite. And... more challenge, more fun. ZOS doesnt have to change anything... If you dont have friends to play dungeons/trials, earn them... You know, friendly, sane, polite playing.

Sarannah · May 2021

ZOS should fix fake roles. But the issue is not overland content or dungeons not requiring a tank/healer, the issue is players cutting in line because they feel their time is more important then everyone else's. It is selfish behaviour, no matter what they tell themselves. And telling players to expect fake roles, when the dungeonfinder has a clear role-set, is not appropriate. Either do your role, or don't queue. No excuses! (being bad at your role, is not being a fake)

ZOS quickly needs to start understanding, these fake roles are chasing players away from the game. As these new players get to dungeons, and then call it quits due to the horrible experience(s). Enforcing roles is the only way to do this, even if it might hinder builddiversity somewhat.

To get more players to become tanks: Dual spec!

PS: Fake roles do not fill a vacuum, they leave players and groups often with double queue's due to the dungeon failing. The ones abusing fake role instant queue's would abuse it, regardless of the role. They even create more holes, which the dungeonfinder has to fill yet again.
PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · May 2021

Tanking used to be by far my favourite role, back when I could do it effectively and still deal out decent damage (about 17-20k). Now, however, I hate it. They've killed hybrids, for most of us at least. My block fails more often than not after the "fixes" to it, my ranged taunt fails reliably, and the dungeons are plagued with glitches that make my job a nightmare (this mostly happened after Harrowstorm patch, with the great migration of server calculations). Add to that the penalties now of being even slower and more miserable in heavy armour while everyone else runs ahead and makes your job of controlling a room full of adds impossible? And even simple overland questing in between queues a slog? No thanks. With all the pressure of the dungeon being on you to perform your job perfectly, and having to suffer through all that, it's a nightmare now. To some degree it always has been, if you take into account that tanks are also expected half the time to not even wear tank sets themselves because they're "selfish". So not only can you not do damage, but you can TAKE even less damage due to having to wear something completely useless to your own character such as Powerful Assault or Alkosh. So I do agree if tanks are to be used more commonly, they'll need some notable increases to quality of life. Moreso in the department of tanks being able to deal their own modest amount of damage again, rather than simply being miserable buff slaves. But that will never happen as long as pve and pvp are still being "balanced" together.

Iccotak · May 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.

(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation

It's one thing if you are a new player but after you've quest through 5+ zones you're no longer a new player which is irritating when Zones are basically all beginner level easy)

stefj68 · May 2021

easy fix, make a 4 man group and queue

Anonx31st · May 2021

The only problem where there is fake tanks/healer (like what this post is referencing to) is from normal random dungeons. There is no fake/healer tanks while doing veteran hm content with a pug. By eliminating the daily normal dungeon (which also count for your random daily dungeon) for players that are lvl 50, then posts like this would of never been created. Tanks are not needed in normal dungeons when they are done by players that are max lvl.

iksde · May 2021

SpaceElf wrote: »

Have you considered that perhaps people are just really bad at it

yes, there is very much bad dps players which are reason why many tanks prefer to not pug bt form their own group with good dps they know

whne I was pugging more often I had sop common cases where on basic content vet dung dps was so pathetic I needed to change all my setup from tank to dps with keeping only taunt if agro problem was very bad but mostly it wasn't because of boss focusing me anyway cause of highest dps

Avalon · May 2021

The issue is a problem built into MMOs from the start, but extremely bad in ESO.

The crux of it is that end-game content, or whatever passes for it, requires a specific set up of players. It's almost always 10-15% of the total in tanks, some amount of healers (depends largely on which game, and what content, as few as 10-15%, but perhaps as many as 25%). The rest is DPS (60%-80%).

That results in less need to have tanks or healers in end-game, no matter what is needed along the way. Why level a tank to the end, if you will be fighting hard for a spot in the raids or whatever?

Next, is why there is a further problem in ESO, specifically:

Simply put - it costs to respec your character.

To expand on that - the vast majority of the game is handled in a measure of how fast you, ALONE, can kill things. You don't need a tank or healer to get through typical content. So, while you aren't trying to do dungeons, trials, or whatever, you want to be built to have the leanest, meanest, skull-cracker or spell-slinger you can possibly make. But, then, you decide to do dungeons once a day, or friends get on to do trials, etc.

What to do? Do you just stick with your DPS build, or do you respec? And, if you respec, now you have to respec AGAIN after so you can get back to the soloing part of the game.

Other games handle this WAY better, especially older ones, as the normal content still is far better handled WITH a group of some sort, even if it's just a 3-man team, or even a duo... because, having a tank or a healer to help out REALLY helps out. ESO's stuff is child's play, even more so after One Tamriel.

Some games have everyone with a sort of switch built in, so that if they are soloing, certain modifiers occur, or if they can toggle that switch (like in DCUO), then they are choosing Tank Modifiers, or DPS Modifiers (which make the character less tanky, and have a lot more DPS), and can be flipped back and forth as needed. That allows Tanks to be viable in solo content, while still being Tanks when it comes time to be a Tank.

One of the things I have LONG wondered in ESO, is why we even are allowed to modify our stat pools (how come we get points to allot) - as, in the end, the same ALWAYS occurs: Tanks put 64 in health, Stam DPS and Stam Healers put 64 in Stamina, Mag DPS and Mag Healers put 64 in Magicka. There was a point where if you had sub-par food/drink you might need to throw a couple over to health to keep it at a decent spot, but that actually was pretty rare in my experience. And, now, is non-existent due to the way CP works out to have every non-Tank at 19K+ health.

So, why not just implement toggles for Mag/Stam/Tank? We eventually get enough skill points that respeccing skills sort of becomes a non-issue, but lowering or nixxing the cost to respec would do wonders for fixing the 'Fake Tank/Healer' issues, imo. Making the typical content actually HARD would help as well, as suddenly DPS would need a Tank, Healer, or both, to complete stuff. However, ZOS kind of shot themselves in the foot when making the game, as trying to do quests together is mind-bogglingly stupid hard due to weird instancing and phasing of quests...

I'm not sure how to fix THAT problem. Not sure if it actually CAN be fixed without a major overhaul of some sort.

EnerG · May 2021

See the problem with this is, im a tank main over half my rooster of alts is tanks, so should I be complaining over "fake" dps who only do 500/s? I understand that people are *** and they que wrong but then all checks need to be equal. So how are you going to check the dps, what constitutes a fake dos

perfiction · May 2021

Yesterday I was brave/stupid enough to queue for pug RND with my healer instead of inviting guildies. Ended up in FV with a group of real tank and 600 and 700 CP DDs. Our group dps was 25k, I dealt 40% of that only with Wall of Elements, Power of Light and Crushing Shock weave when had nothing to do in case of healing/buffing. Me and a tank were literally punished for playing 'by the rules'.

Wonder why people don't want to queue as real tanks or real healers...

Situations like this make me want even more people queueing as fake tank/heal, just to clear RNDs faster and stop that suffering.

Ceejengine · May 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

Simple is the best word for it. I constantly read posts where people say its too easy and needs to be harder.

But you have it 100%. We don't need harder hitting mobs, or mobs with more health, or even more mobs per group. We need more complex NPC behavior.

We also need norm and vet dungeons to have identical mechanics. Just tuned WAY down for normal.

Anonx31st wrote: »

The only problem where there is fake tanks/healer (like what this post is referencing to) is from normal random dungeons. There is no fake/healer tanks while doing veteran hm content with a pug. By eliminating the daily normal dungeon (which also count for your random daily dungeon) for players that are lvl 50, then posts like this would of never been created. Tanks are not needed in normal dungeons when they are done by players that are max lvl.

If you forced level 50 people to only queue in vet dungeons for their random, i agree that the number of posts like this would disappear, because 85% of the playerbase would no longer random queue and therefore not care at all about the problem.

These threads would be replaced with "ugh so frustrating random queue is a ghost town. ZOS plz force people to queue for me."

I understand that empathy is extremely difficult to give when you have those leet deeps to put out, but you need to understand a LOT of people have anxiety doing harder content, or cannot do it for multiple reasons, or are just bad at the game and they know it.

There are people that don't want to spend 4 hours dying (and getting kicked / ditched / flamed) to trash because they just can't get their DPS up, or dodge roll fast enough, or whatever it is that is holding them back.

The daily random reward isn't even that good. 10 transmute crystals, some common crafting mats, and a pure inferno staff of endurance is NOT worthy of vet content exclusives.

If you think vet should give more than that, what do you suggest? What specific gear piece should be available?

I run 5x tanks thru content of all degrees of difficulty. I am NOT trying for random vet DLC HM with pug DPS. 95% of the time the healer and I end up at 65%+ total DPS.

Why would I subject myself to that misery when I can just get my friends who I know are solid players AND I like playing with them.

Without normal randoms, your DPS queue time will be 2-3 hours +. If people want shorter queues: change your personality enough to make friends. Be kind, friendly and helpful enough that tanks WANT to make sure you get your daily rewards because they like you. I know I seek out awesome DPS friends/ guildies and make sure I get them in on my tank queue.

They don't even have to have high DPS. If someone likes talking to you, they will want to talk to you in a dungeon too.

Zodiarkslayer · May 2021

There is a lot of overstating here.

I have never had to wait longer than 20 minutes for a random normal. Never!
Last evening it was 7 minutes, I timed it on my phone. Saturday prime time and only 7 minutes on a Damage Dealer slot.

Admittedly, the log on my tanks and my healers was almost instant. But that just shows how rare these roles are and that a lot of people probably can not or will not play as these.

And this is the proper solution to the fake role problem. Play as a real tank or healer!

Morgha_Kul · May 2021

There are a few reasons I don't do dungeons, and this is one of them.

My characters are built as CHARACTERS. They have skills I like, or that are in concept. I don't build for mechanics. I refuse to be TOLD (by the game or by other players) how I should build my characters, and if content is so difficult that I MUST build my characters with specific skills and gear... then I'm not interested.

gamergirldk · May 2021

what if they lock the droped gear behind role option? u go in as a tank and u only get tank gear ect?.. I know that will make it more grindy but it might just weed out fake tanks/healers

Jeremy · May 2021

gamergirldk wrote: »

what if they lock the droped gear behind role option? u go in as a tank and u only get tank gear ect?.. I know that will make it more grindy but it might just weed out fake tanks/healers

it's an interesting idea. But I doubt it would effectively stop people from faking their roles, since a lot (probably most) are doing dungeons for the undaunted dailies and not for gear.

jle30303 · May 2021

As a real tank, I simply WILL NOT queue for random veterans. The difference between them is too great.

Some of the original content ones I can nearly solo, even with comparatively low damage. But I have trouble with vet-content DLC dungeons - and the last thing I want is to see DDs above level 50 being forced to queue for veteran when they've barely got enough damage for normal, and not even having the option to queue for normal instead.

But if they have the option to queue for normal, then so should I.

Then there's all the stupidity about "tanks have to wear non-tanking gear to benefit the group even though it makes it harder for them to tank... oh, and you shouldn't need a healer either". Dangit, if one of you DDs wants a medium-armour Alkosh set to be worn to benefit the group, YOU damn well wear it.

Besides, suppose I don't HAVE those sets. What am I supposed to wear in order to take part in runs where I can actually get those sets? My "selfish" gear, of course, because I gotta actually do the runs in order to get the sets, and I have to be able to survive in those runs. And you DDs can damn well plan for the existence of tanks who don't have all the gear, because we have to get it somehow, and that means having to get it, from a starting point of NOT HAVING IT. Which means that tanks have to be viable in vet-dungeon (so as to get the monster helms) and trial content (maybe can get away with normal trials for this, save veteran trials for when you've got the gear from normal trials) with things like Ebon and Torug and Leeching Plate. Live with it.

FrancisCrawford · May 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

When there is a boss around, STAY ON THE FRAKKING BOSS.
.

Let's not overstate that. It often is right to kill the trash mobs first, especially if the tank is unable to pull those mobs into whatever splash/cleave damage there is near the boss.

L_Nici · May 2021

There is no need to do something about it. You can do the 4 people Dungeons also their Vetmodes easily with 4 DD, most of the time even better than 2 DD, 1 Healer, 1 Tank, because you are so much faster. Especially a Healer is never needed. Good players can heal themselves and don't need someone to do it for them.

dsalter · May 2021

i'v said once and i'll say it again.

Damage queues are a mess because of how few damage dealers a dungeon needs.
for each "rare" tank you need 1 healer and 2 damage.
for each "uncommon" healer player you need 1 tank and.... yep 2 damage.

damage is the easiest role in the game so will guaranteed be the most played role.

easiest solution to this would be to just allow more damage dealers into a group.

how to do this without hurting group composition?

allow a 12man group into dungeons
only allow 1 tank
only allow 2 healers
9 damage dealers.
scale the bosses/enemies based on the group size.
scale the DD's healing delt down for each player in the group so no self heal cheesing like vigor
scale healers healing up per player but damage down per player so no fake healing because your damage will be crap.
scale tank based on players by lowering their damage and self healing and increasing the player size by 20% so they stand out and feel special but also disallow fake tanks due to poor damage and healing.
add in an AoE tank taunt ulti that costs like 50 ultimate or something to make tanking more bearable.

now DPS players will have less queue size due to more demand and tanks+healers get to finally feel needed in their role

Redguards_Revenge · May 2021

You can't solve a problem with a fundamentally broken game. You never hear about people going online and showing how well they tank or how well they heal. Only DPS....ZoS caters to these meatheads almost every patch. People what to feel more powerful and powerful every patch. The only way ZoS could do that is by adding more damage. Then removing it...and then adding it back again....in a cycle.

The true question is why are few investing into tank and healer. The last MMO I was in I was a tank and a healer. I loved it. I mattered. This game you get 4 good DPS (I perfer calling them DDers-damage dealers- but something changed in the MMO world) and burn through the dungeon in no time.

As a tank or a healer, if you encounter a DPS check it doesn't matter how much damage you do... how much time you invest in killing the mobs, they will endlessly spawn, the damage will endlessly go up or something else that needs high dps but isnt met will happen.

Then it's like ZoS says "sorry bud, you dps is too low. you have no skill bro." So after that revelation, I became a dps. I queue as fake tank or fake healer and I run first to the battle line burning thru the dungeons. If those noobs wanted to hear a story they should have not queued.

Tell me, what tank has gone thru vatesheran? What pure healer has gone through vatesheran? DPS or G - - O.

Indigogo · May 2021

These posts wouldn't come up if the fake q-ers had acceptable dps. Don't think anyone is complaining if you're clearing the content easily.

They're coming up cause ol mate fake tank does no damage and falls over to skeevers.

Xebov · May 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

If you think tanks are in short supply now, let ZOS enact something like this and they'll be on the verge of extinction in the queue. Fake tanks do not displace real tanks. They fill a vacuum. That vacuum is there because few want to queue. Forcing us to play with people that not only didn't want to be there, but are not able to perform at that level, would send even more into premades.

Maybe you should have quoted the other guy instead of me

No, I meant to. It referenced your post. Read the line above it.

Oh my bad

Sarannah wrote: »

To get more players to become tanks: Dual spec!

Multispec. With Dual-Spec we just would end up with DDs getting 2 specs and tanks effectively having one per role. So Multispec is the way to go.

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: Fake roles do not fill a vacuum, they leave players and groups often with double queue's due to the dungeon failing. The ones abusing fake role instant queue's would abuse it, regardless of the role. They even create more holes, which the dungeonfinder has to fill yet again.

More or less they do. They make a bet that they end up in a dungeon where it works. If you look at it historcially about 1-2 years ago you had constant threads about queue times being long. Now that fake ist more common you get the same threads about them being a problem.

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

Fake Tanks dont cause fake DDs. Top level DDs cause them. Every move towards getting rid of certain odd mechanics, like animation canceling, that are hard to understand by newer players are blocked by top tier DDs that want to be set appart. This causes newer players to be unable to easily catch up in DPS. Also half of them doesnt care at all, which doesnt help it.

gamergirldk wrote: »

what if they lock the droped gear behind role option? u go in as a tank and u only get tank gear ect?.. I know that will make it more grindy but it might just weed out fake tanks/healers

Iam not sure if you read what some ppl, including me, are saying. I need a DD spec on my Tank to do quests and overland content and your idea is to lock me out of that gear to punish fake tanks. Thats another idea that tries to solve the DDs issue bsy punishing real tanks....

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

You can't solve a problem with a fundamentally broken game. You never hear about people going online and showing how well they tank or how well they heal. Only DPS....ZoS caters to these meatheads almost every patch. People what to feel more powerful and powerful every patch. The only way ZoS could do that is by adding more damage. Then removing it...and then adding it back again....in a cycle.

Thats a very solid point and the truth, good tanking and good healing are always taken as given and are hardy rewarded or recognized.

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

Tell me, what tank has gone thru vatesheran? What pure healer has gone through vatesheran? DPS or G - - O.

Thats a perfect point too. Top DDs prevent this from happening.

Hexi · May 2021

dsalter wrote: »

i'v said once and i'll say it again.

Damage queues are a mess because of how few damage dealers a dungeon needs.
for each "rare" tank you need 1 healer and 2 damage.
for each "uncommon" healer player you need 1 tank and.... yep 2 damage.

damage is the easiest role in the game so will guaranteed be the most played role.

easiest solution to this would be to just allow more damage dealers into a group.

how to do this without hurting group composition?
allow a 12man group into dungeons

only allow 1 tank

only allow 2 healers

9 damage dealers.

scale the bosses/enemies based on the group size.

scale the DD's healing delt down for each player in the group so no self heal cheesing like vigor

scale healers healing up per player but damage down per player so no fake healing because your damage will be crap.

scale tank based on players by lowering their damage and self healing and increasing the player size by 20% so they stand out and feel special but also disallow fake tanks due to poor damage and healing.

add in an AoE tank taunt ulti that costs like 50 ultimate or something to make tanking more bearable.

now DPS players will have less queue size due to more demand and tanks+healers get to finally feel needed in their role

DD is the easiest to do badly, yes, but actual tanking is much easier than pushing competitive DPS while not eating mechanics. Healing is almost as easy as tanking, because you can only heal so much no matter what kind of a desert beduin ninja you are, people that eat 1shot mechanics die.

Anyone with the skill to push 20k DPS can tank and heal everything the game has to offer, and that's bush-league DPS. This notion that Tanking is hard has been going around for over 20 years now, and it's NEVER been true, in any game.