Something has to be done about the fake tank/healer plague, enough is enough.

Avalon · May 2021

@Iccotak there isn't a timer for being kicked, and there shouldn't be. If a group doesn't like you, and kicks you; or if they just want the completion bonus for a friend who just came online, etc... they can kick you, and it not even remotely be your fault. Should we punish players because there are [snip] like that in the game? And, you want to make that times LONG?

Yes, to fix this issue will require REAL work on the part of ZOS, there isn't any real way around that. It's also why I don't see a fix for this ever happening. They have 2 main groups: new content, and store stuff. The few devs NOT in those groups are busy as can be attempting to make sure there aren't any horribly disastrous problems in new content, and in the meager amount of time they have after doing that? A list that goes back to launch with stuff that STILL needs fixed.

To implement any fair method, or even remotely fair method, would require vast amounts of reworking to the game - and that is WAY too much time and energy that could be devoted to a new chapter, new DLC, or other neat stuff to have in the store bringing in major bucks. We're stuck with the way it is until something incidentally changes it.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

six2fall · May 2021

Last random I ran it was 4 dps but funny thing our "healer" had s&b so i assumed a pvp toon & our other dps had no weapons at all. He did run around punching stuff but I assumed he was just leveling a new toon with the event. The "tank" just ran past everything then got massive mobs at each boss so I just took my time & if he died then he died.

tim99 · May 2021

another idea: make 4 dynamic rewards (XP+mail) on random normal.

one for highest amout of damage taken during that run
one for highest amout of healing during that run
two for each of the 2 highest amouts of damage done during this round

NOT limited to one reward each person. So if a tank get most "damage taken" AND does more damage than a dd, he gets 2 rewards while one dd gets nothing (i mean, he did less than a real tank).
Or if a dd has most "damage taken" because of fake tank, AND manages to make more dps than the fake tank, he gets 2 rewrads and the fake tank none.
If everyone fills their role to a slightest minimum, everyone gets a reward (if a faketank holds aggro of boss, go for it, i guess everyone is happy then anyway).
And it makes it a bit interesting, if you have a faketank which doesnt care about aggro, if you manage to make more dps than him and receive by chance more damage than him, you get 2 rewards and he none).

A more boring solution could also be, rewards are unique but bound to the chosen role:
So..

a tank only get his reward if he has the most "damage taken" in that run
a heal only gets his reward if he has done most "healing done to others" during run
a dd just gets his reward if he has one of the two highest amounts of "damage done"

Septimus_Magna · May 2021

tim99 wrote: »

another idea: make 4 dynamic rewards (XP+mail) on random normal.
one for highest amout of damage taken during that run

one for highest amout of healing during that run

two for each of the 2 highest amouts of damage done during this round

NOT limited to one reward each person. So if a tank get most "damage taken" AND does more damage than a dd, he gets 2 rewards while one dd gets nothing (i mean, he did less than a real tank).
Or if a dd has most "damage taken" because of fake tank, AND manages to make more dps than the fake tank, he gets 2 rewrads and the fake tank none.
If everyone fills their role to a slightest minimum, everyone gets a reward (if a faketank holds aggro of boss, go for it, i guess everyone is happy then anyway).
And it makes it a bit interesting, if you have a faketank which doesnt care about aggro, if you manage to make more dps than him and receive by chance more damage than him, you get 2 rewards and he none).

A more boring solution could also be, rewards are unique but bound to the chosen role:
So..
a tank only get his reward if he has the most "damage taken" in that run

a heal only gets his reward if he has done most "healing done to others" during run

a dd just gets his reward if he has one of the two highest amounts of "damage done"

Good suggestion, I think something along those lines would really help.

Experienced healers can probably claim 2 prices in most situations, its pretty common to see DDs with less than 20k dps. Good healers can probably pull more in most non-DLC vet dungeons.

ksbrugh · May 2021

Warstory wrote: »

Every other MMO that has a queue system for dungeons/raids has a way to deal with this. It's to the point now where almost half of the lfg/pugs I do has a fake tank or healer in it, and a lot of the times it's just straight up 4 dps (no taunts and zero heals). I can accept they are bad tanks and healers, no problem. What I can't or won't accept is a dps queuing as a tank or healer just because they somehow think that their time is more valuable and don't want to wait in the queue that dps deal with right now. Vote to kick is not the answer because a fast kick and replacement almost never happens and people would rather just die a whole bunch instead of having to kick/replace/wait for the role to be filled properly. There is no risk or downside to the person queuing into the wrong role other than a slight chance of getting kicked, but even then they can just log onto another character, re-queue (in the wrong role) and end up right back in the group they were just kicked from further wasting the everyone's time... (Why is the kicked timer not account wide, [snip]?)

Now before a Captain Obvious stats the obvious...
(Yes, I know I can form my own groups and do.)
(Yes, I do tank and heal and not just dps in pugs.)
(Yes, I know I can leave the group at any time.)
(Yes, I know you can and I have successfully ran 3 and even 4 dps in vet dungeons.)
These are all band aid solutions to a broken system that only rewards the people who are breaking it.

So what can be done to fix the problem? I don't know, I'm not a developer and don't know what is and isn't technically possible with the HeroEngine. If possible, the queue system for LFG needs to have a criteria to look for before allowing someone to queue into a certain role.
Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

I know there are a lot of different play-styles and builds out there but there needs to be a bare minimum criteria in place to allow someone to queue for certain roles, otherwise little Timmy Turbo is just going to keep abusing the queue and wasting everyone's time. The only other options are to allow reporting and banning of people abusing the queue (first report a warning, second report 24 hour ban), but this would likely be abused it's self. The other option? Just leave it as it is and dumb down all lfg/pug content to allow for a random 4 dps to clear. What I can say for sure is that the LFG experience has progressively gotten worse over the past couple of years and it needs fixed right now.

I run a magic based Templar tank in 5 light 2 heavy and yes I have a taunt and a pull. I can tank any dungeon including DLC dungeons. Non-vet of course. But I can tank most of the non DLC dungeons on vet. But then again I only cue for random non-vet dungeons. I set half of my back bar up as healer because half the time you don't get a healer then I have to heal and tank all at the same time.
I've also been experimenting with the rattlecage set it's all heavy. My dps would go down because of lack of penetration but I keep it in my inventory just in case lol.

[edited to remove quote]

Hexi · May 2021

simple_specops wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

20k DPS, for normal dungeons? You realize no class can pull that without a monster set from Vet. Unless they get heavily buffed by group and have 100% pot-uptime, and who uses pots on normal?

leetacakesb16_ESO · May 2021

Anyone that defends the fake tank/healer issue must be one themselves.

However, I'm not even sure how you can stop it besides maybe ignoring the player? Or maybe only allow certain builds to enter into a role. What I mean is like if you choose your DK to be a tank via the skill list then that build is only allowed to queue for tank roles.

There might even be some cases where the player might not even realise they are set as a non dps role, especially if they are low Cp/level.

I went in a pug group once and thought the tank was taking so much damage very quick. I then realised the 'tank' was just a nightblade with a bow. The other dps and even myself were doing a better job at taking damage. So, I let him die a few times.

iksde · May 2021

leetacakesb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyone that defends the fake tank/healer issue must be one themselves.

and when Im mostly queuing as my dps role Im glad when I see fake healer dealing damage becasue for most healers I see they only heal and do nothing else while for most fight there is no need to even heal or enough is to place long HoT and do nothing anymore, I just see how for most time healers are literally useless/carriedd in group as they provide literally nothing except unecessary overhealing or pretend they are doing something with heals when they are no needed while tank and both dps need to work with their roles, healer like that just sit on back and do nothing or thing theya re doings something but they dont, they are mostly just empty role barely even giving synergies like atleast orb for sustain help

Grimm_Cortex · May 2021

Yeah good idea to ask ZOS to fix this ..

they are so good at fixing things so far :

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

Hexi · May 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

How is it a horrible experience? I do 1 random for crystals every day on 5 characters, 1 tank and 2 healers, and never have any real issues.

jane_01215 · May 2021

A healer asks: So what's the problem with fake healers anyway?
I have been exclusively playing healer for a year but now farming DPS gear and practicing against dummies. Whether a group can clear a content or not is often (if not always) dictated by their dps and ability to avoid one-shot mechanics. IMO the game is just designed in a way that makes healers irrelevant.

Give me one compelling reason why I should keep playing healer and you will see one less fake healer.
Convince 25% people to play tank and other 25% to play healer and there will be no fake tanks/healers. Problem solved.

Naftal · May 2021

tim99 wrote: »

another idea: make 4 dynamic rewards (XP+mail) on random normal.
one for highest amout of damage taken during that run

one for highest amout of healing during that run

two for each of the 2 highest amouts of damage done during this round

NOT limited to one reward each person. So if a tank get most "damage taken" AND does more damage than a dd, he gets 2 rewards while one dd gets nothing (i mean, he did less than a real tank).
Or if a dd has most "damage taken" because of fake tank, AND manages to make more dps than the fake tank, he gets 2 rewrads and the fake tank none.
If everyone fills their role to a slightest minimum, everyone gets a reward (if a faketank holds aggro of boss, go for it, i guess everyone is happy then anyway).
And it makes it a bit interesting, if you have a faketank which doesnt care about aggro, if you manage to make more dps than him and receive by chance more damage than him, you get 2 rewards and he none).

A more boring solution could also be, rewards are unique but bound to the chosen role:
So..
a tank only get his reward if he has the most "damage taken" in that run

a heal only gets his reward if he has done most "healing done to others" during run

a dd just gets his reward if he has one of the two highest amounts of "damage done"

WIth a system like that I'd keep queueing for tank role as dps and gain 3 rewards per random normal.

Hexi · May 2021

jane_01215 wrote: »

A healer asks: So what's the problem with fake healers anyway?
I have been exclusively playing healer for a year but now farming DPS gear and practicing against dummies. Whether a group can clear a content or not is often (if not always) dictated by their dps and ability to avoid one-shot mechanics. IMO the game is just designed in a way that makes healers irrelevant.

Give me one compelling reason that I should keep playing healer and you will see one less fake healer.

Use Kagrenac and be super fast at ressing people who fail 1shot mechanics

That's what I do on Temp

axi · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

simple_specops wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

20k DPS, for normal dungeons? You realize no class can pull that without a monster set from Vet. Unless they get heavily buffed by group and have 100% pot-uptime, and who uses pots on normal?

You can pull more then 20k just with heavy attacks spam and without sets from vet content and without group buffs.

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

How is it a horrible experience? I do 1 random for crystals every day on 5 characters, 1 tank and 2 healers, and never have any real issues.

Spam the vet queue, you will find out eventually

You will eventually find the DPS that think they are doing 1 billion damage a second and can't even outdamage you as a tank. They are very useful in dungeons with hard DPS checks that ZOS keeps adding (or ones player fail to listen to the mechanics to prevent wiping that can be beaten with an alternate strategy like Vet Moongrave Fane).

Hexi · May 2021

axi wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

simple_specops wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

20k DPS, for normal dungeons? You realize no class can pull that without a monster set from Vet. Unless they get heavily buffed by group and have 100% pot-uptime, and who uses pots on normal?

You can pull more then 20k just with heavy attacks spam and without sets from vet content and without group buffs.

Maybe against a dummy.

Hexi · May 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

How is it a horrible experience? I do 1 random for crystals every day on 5 characters, 1 tank and 2 healers, and never have any real issues.

Spam the vet queue, you will find out eventually

You will eventually find the DPS that think they are doing 1 billion damage a second and can't even outdamage you as a tank. They are very useful in dungeons with hard DPS checks that ZOS keeps adding (or ones player fail to listen to the mechanics to prevent wiping that can be beaten with an alternate strategy like Vet Moongrave Fane).

Why would any sane person pug vets?

Like what's the point?

jane_01215 · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

Why would any sane person pug vets?

I am one of those insane people who pugged vet DLC dungeons all the time, because that was the only fun thing to play as a healer. But, as my insanity got cured, I decided to stop playing healer and become a DPS, aka fake healer.

Hexi · May 2021

jane_01215 wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

Why would any sane person pug vets?

I am one of those insane people who pugged vet DLC dungeons all the time, because that was the only fun thing to play as a healer. But, as my insanity got cured, I decided to stop playing healer and become a DPS, aka fake healer.

I would never pug vets with any character. The "average" player can't even hit the right target.

Grimm_Cortex · May 2021

Can you stop asking for nerfing, modifying, punishing or something else ...

And actually looked at the game, some content can be done without an actual tank or/heal, some can't

So If you find yourself in situation, that are not working by the end ... So take action IN GAME ! launch a vote or leave the group. Yeah I know leaving mean waiting 15 minutes ... but hey ! If you are able to discuss with the group in order to find a solution, you always have your freedom.

Stop asking for policing everything .. I'm tired of that ! And I'm not the only one !

Grimm_Cortex · May 2021

To add some context I play : DD (and wait for ever to launch a random ... But I accept that), Tank (waiting a bit ... but ok), Heal (waiting a bit ... but ok).

And sometime as a tank I have some DD with no DPS at all ! And that's hell ! Same when i'm heal, but magicaly when I go in DD whatever we face ... I can manage my way out.

So please stop asking for whatever you think I will be best for you only !

JanTanhide · May 2021

I think what they need to do is add a new option to report players who "fake" their role in order to cut in line. If a player gets enough reports, it would trigger an investigation and if it's found that the player is consistently faking their role on purpose to speed up their queues they would get a time out from being able to use the activity finder. That's the best solution I've been able to come up with. Just the mere presence of something like this would probably cut the practice back a lot.[/quote]

Now this I can get behind. I like this idea.

Athan1 · May 2021

Other MMOs can control this because roles are class-locked. Since in ESO any class can perform any role, the system cannot control this. Just kick or form your own group. Tbh I'm not sure why people get so hung-up on this, just move on and enjoy the game.

JanTanhide · May 2021

Zephiran23 wrote: »

There is the other unmentioned solution, which would require a complete overhaul of the dungeons. If there are too many DPS for the number of tanks and healers, the number of DPS required to fill a party needs to be dramatically increased.

Judging by the difference in queue times, what are currently 4 player dungeons should be 20 player dungeons. 1 tank, 1 healer and 18 DPS. Sure that's bigger than trial groups, but when dealing with overwhelming numbers, none of the previous suggestions are dealing with the actual problem. People want their daily rewards as soon as possible and will game whatever systems are in place to achieve their aim.

Making it easier for tanks or healers to progress in other content doesn't reduce the number of players wanting to do DPS in dungeons. It is a valid concern, but not the main issue. Gear or skill selection checks aren't going to make more people prepare properly for those roles - they just create more barriers.

Then Vet dungeons would be over in mere minutes. No thanks.

Sirdorian · May 2021

I dont See the problem.
I also queue as tank for random normal, as dd Player. Why not? Iam good and have Most time 70-80% group dps, unkillable thanks to brawler and make a quick Dungeon for eveyone. (Doing this for Farming transmutation crystels), and dont have time to wait for the 10k light attack spamming newbies.

For vet dungeons i Go with guild mates or friends.

JanTanhide · May 2021

Somewhat off of OPs point is that many players have stopped Tanking all together adding to this issue of Fake Tanks (Healers too most likely).

I've been Tanking for quite a few years in ESO and have two Tanks that have done all Vet Dungeons with many hard modes completed as well. Every time ZOS comes out "balancing" the game for PVP it hurts Tanks quite a bit.

It gets more and more challenging to Tank the hard core dungeons and a real Healer is required (except for you Pale Order high DPS players). Physical and Spell resistance has been hit significantly over and over, stamina and magicka regen reduced, block cost increased dramatically and on and on.

In my opinion tanking for new Tanks in hard content, is not easy and many just say the heck with it and switch to DPS or a Healer. I've known quite a few to stop Tanking with each patch of nerfs to Tanking that ZOS throws out to "balance" the player base.

With Blackreach approaching once again I am theory crafting new tank builds to hopefully deal with the upcoming nerfs once again to Tanking (and to DPS). For many new Tanks getting in the game they run to COH1/2 and get Ebon and double up with Plague Doctor or one of the other "staple" Tank type sets out there. And then they die over and over in easy Vet dungeons. It's not about gear so much it's about enchants, regen, physical and spell resistances, what skills you have on the bar and your skill level at running a Tank.

I think we will see even less real Tanks after Blackreach and this Fake Tank problem will be even worse. ZOS stop nerfing to balance PVP.

Agenericname · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

How is it a horrible experience? I do 1 random for crystals every day on 5 characters, 1 tank and 2 healers, and never have any real issues.

Spam the vet queue, you will find out eventually

You will eventually find the DPS that think they are doing 1 billion damage a second and can't even outdamage you as a tank. They are very useful in dungeons with hard DPS checks that ZOS keeps adding (or ones player fail to listen to the mechanics to prevent wiping that can be beaten with an alternate strategy like Vet Moongrave Fane).

Why would any sane person pug vets?

Like what's the point?

Normals are excruciatingly boring after a certain point. They're for new(er) players. They see so much traffic because the rewards for the random do not reflect the time and risk involved.

Most groups clear vet just fine. In fact, our damage is so high in comparison to this content that even base game vets are trivialized.

Ive run into the groups that @ResidentContrarian is talking about. Theyre not the norm though. Vet DLCs are my favorite place to PUG. When I do run into them, I kindly explain why, and leave. I can do that without being insulting.

Its worth the risk IMO, but painful sometimes. Still more fun than normals, and fun is why I play.

MagicPie · May 2021

Maybe we can have a system like this:

-When we open a group finder, there would be a gear save system like we have in Dressing Room addon which will automatically assign you a role, so for example you have a shield and 1H = tank, healing staff = healer and so on, and then you join queue.
-While waiting in queue you can change your gear and do what ever you want while waiting, but when you get ported in dungeon the system will automatically put the gear on you that you have previously saved and you wont be able to change gear before finishing the dungeon. (Same would apply to spells on bar)

-However this would be tricky if someone has to swap some gear for some bosses and stuff like that, but system like this could work with some tweaking.

Hexi · May 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Warstory wrote: »

Does the person have a taunt on their bar? Check
Does the person have sufficient health to tank the content that was queued for? Check
Does the person have the appropriate armor/armor buffs/shields/and cp talents? Check
If all checks pass, lock the gear/skills/talents in place required for the content and add them to the queue.
A system like this would allow extra rewards for filling and completing certain roles that are badly needed need in the queue like tank, thus speeding up everyone queue.

And who are you or anyone else in the community that agrees with this, even the dev team members, to suggest what a person is or is not capable of tanking without solid proof that they cannot complete the content as a tank without your predefined checks...?

Artificial checks in the finder will simply make players not use it. The finder is already a terrible experience most of the time for a healer or tank that solo queues, and you want to punish them because you can't stand how others are abusing the queue?

Then, there is the problem that players can be in a group of 4 already, will you still enforce your requirements on them too? Doubt they need anyone to tell them what their 4-man can complete if they do it all the time and it's their group.

Also locking skills and sets after entering a dungeon is one of the worst ideas I have ever seen posted on this forums and shows you have never been in either the tank or heal role. If you have, you'd know tanks and healers swap gear and skills all the time to help complete runs because the DPS aren't adequate in the dungeon finder.

Lastly, you act as if artificial limitations will make tanks or healers any better in the queue or increase their amount.

It will do neither. The reason is because the game is a massive DPS check. But, even going further than that, there is zero reason for any tank or healer to run dungeons after doing their dailies because it isn't profitable and it's not really fun.

In fact, tanks and healers can lose profit when they expend gems on others or wipe due to a bad party. Not to mention that there is something even more valuable to every person playing the game: time.

Essentially you want yourself, the community, or ZOS to micromanage the tank and heal roles in the dungeon finder to "fix" a problem the kick button solves, and then think that any real tank or healer will accept being micromanaged so you can have what you perceive as "fun" at their expense while wasting their time?

Hard disagree.

How is it a horrible experience? I do 1 random for crystals every day on 5 characters, 1 tank and 2 healers, and never have any real issues.

Spam the vet queue, you will find out eventually

You will eventually find the DPS that think they are doing 1 billion damage a second and can't even outdamage you as a tank. They are very useful in dungeons with hard DPS checks that ZOS keeps adding (or ones player fail to listen to the mechanics to prevent wiping that can be beaten with an alternate strategy like Vet Moongrave Fane).

Why would any sane person pug vets?

Like what's the point?

Normals are excruciatingly boring after a certain point. They're for new(er) players. They see so much traffic because the rewards for the random do not reflect the time and risk involved.

Most groups clear vet just fine. In fact, our damage is so high in comparison to this content that even base game vets are trivialized.

Ive run into the groups that @ResidentContrarian is talking about. Theyre not the norm though. Vet DLCs are my favorite place to PUG. When I do run into them, I kindly explain why, and leave. I can do that without being insulting.

Its worth the risk IMO, but painful sometimes. Still more fun than normals, and fun is why I play.

Vet dungeons are designed to be run with normal dungeon gear, not yellow Vet Trial gear, and the HP pools of enemies reflect that.

Stop complaining about how boring the content is when you overgear it.