Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible
sabresandiego_ESO
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Players can stack massive up front burst bonus damage using a combination of Master DW, Undaunted Infiltrator, and Malacath. These sets don’t have any scaling requirements.
The only way you do comparable burst with proc sets is by stacking weapon damage. Vat 2h and a few other burst sets clearly have the potential to be over tuned and problematic like they are currently on live. However the entire point of this thread is to demonstrate that you can use master DW, and undaunted infiltrator back barred to ensure 20k bursts and then you can build the rest of your character as you please.
-you can run 3 swift
-you can wear heavy armor
-you can wear a tank set
-you can stack regen
-you can stack penetration
With proc sets that now scale, if you did any of the above you would lose weapon damage and therefore your procs would hit less hard as a consequence. That’s called opportunity cost. If you run swift you don’t have infused wpn dmg or bloodthirsty. If you wear heavy you don’t have medium armor weapon dmg. If you wear a tank set or regen set you don’t have enough weapon dmg. If you use maces instead of swords you lose that weapon dmg.
None of those opportunity costs matter with master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator and you can build as you please.
It's interesting that zenimax made all of these adjustments to proc sets yet allowed the biggest offenders of instant, pure burst damage to go untouched in terms of scaling. Enjoy it while you can!
Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on May 15, 2021 2:42PM The only way you do comparable burst with proc sets is by stacking weapon damage. Vat 2h and a few other burst sets clearly have the potential to be over tuned and problematic like they are currently on live. However the entire point of this thread is to demonstrate that you can use master DW, and undaunted infiltrator back barred to ensure 20k bursts and then you can build the rest of your character as you please.
-you can run 3 swift
-you can wear heavy armor
-you can wear a tank set
-you can stack regen
-you can stack penetration
With proc sets that now scale, if you did any of the above you would lose weapon damage and therefore your procs would hit less hard as a consequence. That’s called opportunity cost. If you run swift you don’t have infused wpn dmg or bloodthirsty. If you wear heavy you don’t have medium armor weapon dmg. If you wear a tank set or regen set you don’t have enough weapon dmg. If you use maces instead of swords you lose that weapon dmg.
None of those opportunity costs matter with master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator and you can build as you please.
It's interesting that zenimax made all of these adjustments to proc sets yet allowed the biggest offenders of instant, pure burst damage to go untouched in terms of scaling. Enjoy it while you can!
Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade
Ali Sabre -Nightblade
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭In which setup Undaunted Infiltrator is burst damage? Can you explain the order of skills and attacks which leads to burst?8 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭In which setup Undaunted Infiltrator is burst damage? Can you explain the order of skills and attacks which leads to burst?
Do a medium or heavy attack with dual wield while undaunted infiltrator is active (you can back bar it) and it will do double bonus damage. You can combine this with double infused weapons and the new heartland set, malacath, and master dw.
Do a heavy attack -> rending slash and you will do massive burst damage instantaneously. Two heavy attacks (both boosted by infiltrator), two infused enchants (both boosted by heartland), and master DW rending will all hit at exactly the same time.Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on May 6, 2021 7:37PMAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade7 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭It's bad enough they are ruining every proc set in the game, can we hold off on asking for NERFING EVERYTHING else for a couple weeks?27
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭It still sounds like 1 spammable (rending) + 1 spammable (medium attack + 3k) of burst. Enchants doesn't guarantee to proc.
Unless you show the recording of what you say is possible on a player, I will highly doubt this is possible.3 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It still sounds like 1 spammable (rending) + 1 spammable (medium attack + 3k) of burst. Enchants doesn't guarantee to proc.
Unless you show the recording of what you say is possible on a player, I will highly doubt this is possible.
Don't use it thenEdited by sabresandiego_ESO on May 6, 2021 7:29PMAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here with popcorn!PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden3 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what I will be doing, or something similar. Helps that I already have most of the pieces.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP metas1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It still sounds like 1 spammable (rending) + 1 spammable (medium attack + 3k) of burst. Enchants doesn't guarantee to proc.
Unless you show the recording of what you say is possible on a player, I will highly doubt this is possible.
Rending procs both dual wield enchants 100% of the time if they are off cooldown.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Rending procs both dual wield enchants 100% of the time if they are off cooldown.
Why?0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
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Why?
Its a weapon ability that does direct damage twice. Every weapon ability that does direct damage has a 100% chance to proc its enchant as long as it is not on cooldown.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.6 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wasn't there a chance associated with that?
Why enchants are suddenly a problem now? Didn't we have Torugs before? Is new set that much better? Infused is +30% damage, torugs is +45%. What's the deal?
Why combine so many different sources of damage together, like la/ha damage bonus coupled with enchants coupled with weapon enhance weapon?
If undaunted inf is so good, then stack both of em and gain Empower. Obviously, it isn't as nobody does this now and the set was untoched.
Is rending initial attack scaling is very high? It might be the case really, but I doubt everything else listed is broken.3 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wasn't there a chance associated with that?
Nope no chance associated with that anymore. During glyphgate even the dot portion of rending slashes would proc enchants on cooldown but that got removed pretty quickly after Zos noticed what players told them the entire PTS.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wasn't there a chance associated with that?
Why enchants are suddenly a problem now? Didn't we have Torugs before? Is new set that much better? Infused is +30% damage, torugs is +45%. What's the deal?
Why combine so many different sources of damage together, like la/ha damage bonus coupled with enchants coupled with weapon enhance weapon?
If undaunted inf is so good, then stack both of em and gain Empower. Obviously, it isn't as nobody does this now and the set was untoched.
Is rending initial attack scaling is very high? It might be the case really, but I doubt everything else listed is broken.
Plenty of people were running the Undaunted heavy attack setups prior to the proc set shut off. And plenty still run them in BGs. It's not some niche build, it is a fairly powerful setup. Now, I am not sure how it will perform in the upcoming patch with proc scaling, probably not anywhere near as well, but it performs well in the live environment.3 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Plenty of people were running the Undaunted heavy attack setups prior to the proc set shut off. And plenty still run them in BGs. It's not some niche build, it is a fairly powerful setup. Now, I am not sure how it will perform in the upcoming patch with proc scaling, probably not anywhere near as well, but it performs well in the live environment.
Yes, with lightning staff heavys. And it's far from "burst". I'd say it is DPS combo really, unless you walk into maelstrom barrage, get off-balance and stun while still in it.
Have you ever seen anyone doing DW mediums with undaunted inf? I don't think this was a thing, I don't think this is a thing. The list of sets OP gave is pretty much random.Edited by divnyi on May 6, 2021 8:02PM3 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »This is what I will be doing, or something similar. Helps that I already have most of the pieces.
Same here, and likely a good portion of stamina players in high MMR battlegroundsWasn't there a chance associated with that?
Why enchants are suddenly a problem now? Didn't we have Torugs before? Is new set that much better? Infused is +30% damage, torugs is +45%. What's the deal?
Why combine so many different sources of damage together, like la/ha damage bonus coupled with enchants coupled with weapon enhance weapon?
If undaunted inf is so good, then stack both of em and gain Empower. Obviously, it isn't as nobody does this now and the set was untoched.
Is rending initial attack scaling is very high? It might be the case really, but I doubt everything else listed is broken.
Plenty of people were running the Undaunted heavy attack setups prior to the proc set shut off. And plenty still run them in BGs. It's not some niche build, it is a fairly powerful setup. Now, I am not sure how it will perform in the upcoming patch with proc scaling, probably not anywhere near as well, but it performs well in the live environment.
Agreed. Also Master DW, Undaunted Infiltrator, and the new heartland set combined with infused weapons are all completely unaffected by the new proc scaling changes. This means you can skip stacking weapon damage like with other proc sets, and instead stack penetration (dbl maces, 1 piece krag, and lover) while wearing heavy armor.Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on May 6, 2021 8:25PMAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I use this more for PvE than PvP
Heavy attack sets etc + lightningEdited by Waffennacht on May 7, 2021 12:29AM2 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭sounds like it's time for brian to pull his head out his
and seperate pve and pvp
that or rebalance every single set in the entire game4 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes I've seen strong stamblade players doing this, no the sets are not random at all, this is a synergistic package that can be used in one shot burst builds and heavy malaproc builds alike. The new Heartland set is interesting. I don't know whether this will form an enjoyable meta, but it's worth trying?Have you ever seen anyone doing DW mediums with undaunted inf? I don't think this was a thing, I don't think this is a thing. The list of sets OP gave is pretty much random.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP metas1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm not certain that eliminating 1 shot builds is the objective here.
I seems to me that the objective is to make it catch all builds weaker, and specialist builds weaker in areas that are not their focus.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a heavy hitting combo build as long as you aren't also doing it with 30k+ max health and 30k+ resists, and looking at this you've got 1 medium 5pc, arena weapons and then one more 5pc or a monster set with 1 5pc only on the back bar.
Seems pretty reasonable to me honestly.2 -
Agnusthemagi✭✭This is what you are looking for, this guy shows how to reach 149K burst from stealth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIH6pdj4go
275% bonus damage from stealth crouched meele attack.
Using undaunted infiltrator on a magicka NB.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Isn't there some debate about whether or not that 275% figure actually gets applied to players?
I've read conflicting reports and have not tested it myself. If it doesn't apply then it's a complete non-issue and this video is trying to rally the pitchforks with incorrect information (which, IMO, a grave sin).
Apart from that... Battle Spirit, NPCs have no Critical Resistance, Armor and mitigation is much lower than on a player, it's in CP, etc. Actual damage against a player will never remotely be that high.
But IF this actually works against players, the obvious step is to either exempt players from the bonus damage or else to dramatically nerf said bonus damage. It is NOT to destroy any more sets because they are not fundamentally the engine of the problem on display.4 -
Arcanasx✭✭✭✭✭Agnusthemagi wrote: »This is what you are looking for, this guy shows how to reach 149K burst from stealth:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIH6pdj4go
275% bonus damage from stealth crouched meele attack.
Using undaunted infiltrator on a magicka NB.
1) You wont get that 275% bonus modifier against players, you also have to take into account player mitigation and battle spirit.
2) The Undaunted Infiltrator buff won't even activate outside of combat, basically making it a useless and wasted set for ganking.
Edited by Arcanasx on May 7, 2021 7:19AM9 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭There is so much misinformation being spread on these forums it's nuts. Dual wield enchants suck even if you use heartland/torugs pact with infused weapon enchants, undaunted Infiltrator doesn't make you one shot people, master DW with a build that has high weapon damage basically does the same single target DPS when used as a spammable as a normal single target DPS ability except you had to give up 2 item slots for it, and stealth damage bonus stopped working on players about 2 years ago and even then it was only about a 10% damage boost.Edited by Teeba_Shei on May 7, 2021 7:38AM4 -
Arcanasx✭✭✭✭✭Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.
And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.5 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭Just went and tested this on PTS and it did about as much dps as spamming light attacks with a high weapon damage build. Also tried spamming rending with heartland, torugs pact, and master DW and the enchants themselves did about 20% of the DPS while the light attack and rending spam did the other 80%. This is a pretty crap setup if you are using two 5 piece sets to produce 20% of your dps. IF they hadn't nerfed the dual wield enchant values by 50% a couple patches ago this might actually be good. It just doesn't do enough damage to bother with.
Tried it against a world boss and I ran out of stamina because I had to spend too much on vigor because the weapon damage is too low to properly heal itself.Edited by Teeba_Shei on May 7, 2021 8:34AM5 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭True.
Gank builds will be able to stack 10K+ Weapon dmg and use one or two proc sets and one-shot 30K+ health builds with little to no counter-play
(no matter how tanky that player is). It is just so much damage, that even if you build tanky, you gonna get killed, as you can not min-max defence next patch vs how much burst you can min-max.
Meanwhile healing proc sets (which I assume are suppose to be counter to dmg dealing sets) won't even get near as good when compared to the values you can min-max with weapon dmg & dmg dealing proc-sets.
There should be a cap imho. So if you stack more than 6 - 7 weapon / spell damage, there won't be as much benefit. Same for healing sets.
^ Although in case of healing sets cap would be kinda irrelevant as you can not get like 50+ stam or mag on a average build and still have room to run a healing proc-set.
Anyway, I always thought it is weird that armour has a dmg mitigation cap (around 33K) and all you get if you go over the cap is a penetration de-buff (so it counters penetration that enemy player has), but other stats that determine your dmg & strength of your abilities do not have such restrictions.
It is inconsistent.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 7, 2021 8:41AM1 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »There is so much misinformation being spread on these forums it's nuts. Dual wield enchants suck even if you use heartland/torugs pact with infused weapon enchants, undaunted Infiltrator doesn't make you one shot people, master DW with a build that has high weapon damage basically does the same single target DPS when used as a spammable as a normal single target DPS ability except you had to give up 2 item slots for it, and stealth damage bonus stopped working on players about 2 years ago and even then it was only about a 10% damage boost.
This is what I was trying to tell. Thanks for taking your time to test that nonsense tho.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »True.
Gank builds will be able to stack 10K+ Weapon dmg and use one or two proc sets and one-shot 30K+ health builds with little to no counter-play
(no matter how tanky that player is). It is just so much damage, that even if you build tanky, you gonna get killed, as you can not min-max defence next patch vs how much burst you can min-max.
Meanwhile healing proc sets (which I assume are suppose to be counter to dmg dealing sets) won't even get near as good when compared to the values you can min-max with weapon dmg & dmg dealing proc-sets.
There should be a cap imho. So if you stack more than 6 - 7 weapon / spell damage, there won't be as much benefit. Same for healing sets.
^ Although in case of healing sets cap would be kinda irrelevant as you can not get like 50+ stam or mag on a average build and still have room to run a healing proc-set.
Anyway, I always thought it is weird that armour has a dmg mitigation cap (around 33K) and all you get if you go over the cap is a penetration de-buff (so it counters penetration that enemy player has), but other stats that determine your dmg & strength of your abilities do not have such restrictions.
It is inconsistent.
There used to be a softcap for weapon/spell damage and most other stats where they had diminishing returns after a certain point. That was very long ago tho and if I recall correctly it got patched out long before vet ranks were removed.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agnusthemagi wrote: »This is what you are looking for, this guy shows how to reach 149K burst from stealth:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIH6pdj4go
275% bonus damage from stealth crouched meele attack.
Using undaunted infiltrator on a magicka NB.
1) You wont get that 275% bonus modifier against players, you also have to take into account player mitigation and battle spirit.
2) The Undaunted Infiltrator buff won't even activate outside of combat, basically making it a useless and wasted set for ganking.
How do you know you don't get 275 bonus on players?PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agnusthemagi wrote: »Using undaunted infiltrator on a magicka NB.
I thought that was not actually working in PVP.
tbh, I don't think I've seen a single "OMG" "INSANE" "OP" clickbait video on the tube using this master dw setup. If it was so powerful, it would be everywhere.
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