Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible

Arcanasx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Rending slashes has significantly higher burst damage than blood craze Xylena since the bonus dmg is applied twice. Blood craze is good on an attrition build or dueling build but this type of setup is all about burst damage and not necessarily sustained dps and healing.

Ideally you either burst, cc, burst as Stam dk or cc, burst, then run away as Stam sorc. These are the two best classes for this setup although it works well on any class.

Rendings adds 25% more to the direct damage portion compared to the base skill of twin slashes, and does not effect the mDW bonus. Assuming xylena's example again, the unbuffed blood craze of 2700 would become 3375 if it were rendings, a damage increase of 675. The buffed blood craze of 4500 would be 5175 with rendings instead. This is hardly "significantly higher burst damage" (yet more hyperbole), and if anything, I would actually compare mDW being more so a sustained damage set rather than a "burst" set.

Speaking of "significantly higher burst", you should take a look at vate 2h, ashen grip, caluurions, red mountain, etc to see what burst tooltips look like, and dont give me "but the scaling" nonsense. Its not difficult for stam to invest a little to reach at least 5k weapon damage (especially with vate 2h), which should be just over a 20% nerf compared to live, and it'll still provide a good amount more burst than mDW.

This math is wrong because rending slash hits twice. In xylenas logs there are actually three hits of bloodcraze within a .45 second window.

Master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator clearly allow Xylena to land nearly 20k burst damage on an armored target in actual pvp while she herself is wearing a tank set. If you did this with any proc build that is now forced to scale with weapon damage you'd hit like a wet noodle when building to be tanky.

I know rending slashes hits twice and I've already accounted for that. The number I used already adds the two seperate hits together from the direct damage portion. A 2700 blood craze split into the two attacks is 1350. Rendings adds 25% only to the direct damage portion. So rendings would be 3374, or 1687 each. The DOT tick from rendings doesn't matter as rending's doesn't increase the damage of the DOT.

Rendings does not increase the effectiveness of mDW either; it still adds 1635 tooltip flat, and in Xylenas example would would become another approximate 900 to each direct damage attack after modifiers, so around 5174 total or 2587 with each half, which is what I already said it would be in my previous post. This was in response to you claiming that rendings adds "significantly more burst damage" (only 337x2 = 674 ) compared to blood craze so I only changed what was actually effected.

UI and mDW do not exclusively allow you to land "20k bursts" (actually under 19k in Xylenas case). You can replace those sets with other proc sets that are actually meant for burst and do more burst damage on armored targets, even if you do not reach the 6.5k weapon damage threshold, and put on tanky gear as well.

sabresandiego_ESO

The only way you do better burst with proc sets is by stacking weapon damage. Vat 2h and a few other burst sets clearly have the potential to be over tuned and problematic like they are currently on live. However the entire point of this thread is to demonstrate that you can use master DW, and undaunted infiltrator back barred to ensure 20k bursts and then you can build the rest of your character as you please.

-you can run 3 swift
-you can wear heavy armor
-you can wear a tank set
-you can stack regen
-you can stack penetration

With proc sets that now scale, if you did any of the above you would lose weapon damage and therefore your procs would hit less hard as a consequence. That’s called opportunity cost. If you run swift you don’t have infused wpn dmg or bloodthirsty. If you wear heavy you don’t have medium armor weapon dmg. If you wear a tank set or regen set you don’t have enough weapon dmg. If you use maces instead of swords you lose that weapon dmg.

None of those opportunity costs matter with master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator and you can build as you please.

xylena_lazarow

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

None of those opportunity costs matter with master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator and you can build as you please.

It has a much higher build cost than Vatesh 2h and is mechanically harder to take advantage of. Between the two of these things, Vatesh 2h seems more likely to cause problems, but with how stupid tanky cp cyro gets, I'm not sure either of these will actually be a problem in that meta.

sabresandiego_ESO

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

None of those opportunity costs matter with master DW and Undaunted Infiltrator and you can build as you please.

It has a much higher build cost than Vatesh 2h and is mechanically harder to take advantage of. Between the two of these things, Vatesh 2h seems more likely to cause problems, but with how stupid tanky cp cyro gets, I'm not sure either of these will actually be a problem in that meta.

I agree, vat 2h will still be good. And high hp/armor builds do counter burst builds like you mention for cyrodil. But in battlegrounds tanks are generally ignored and burst builds run around racking up all of the killing blows. There is no reason to play anything besides a burst build if you’re interested in getting kills.

Luke_Aydenn

I'd like to see this in action, do you have any footage?