Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible

sabresandiego_ESO

This isn’t just for heavy attack builds. You can literally run any primary set with master DW front bar and undaunted infiltrator back bar to get all this free bonus damage which has no scaling requirements. Throw on some infused weapon enchants for extra instant burst as well and play any style of build you like, even an archer. Don’t forget to wind up a DW medium or heavy with a rending when you want the massive burst all at once.

Arcanasx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

sabresandiego_ESO

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. [snip]

[snip] I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness. I want Zenimax and testers to know about these sets that are ignoring proc scaling mechanics because that’s part of what the PTS is for.

This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Arcanasx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. [snip]

[snip] I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness. I want Zenimax and testers to know about these sets that are ignoring proc scaling mechanics because that’s part of what the PTS is for.

This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”.

[snip]

"This thread isn’t about you, and I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness."

And here is what you said to me earlier: "If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to."

[snip] And someone who continues to have an obsessive targeted focus on a few, highly specific sets that are incredibly niche and uncommon, obviously isn't someone who doesn't care about what Zenimax does with said sets. Otherwise they wouldn't spend all the time and energy using the forums (and elsewhere) attempting to bring "awareness" to such builds while simultaneously engaging frequent hyperbole, with claims of "easy unintended one shot potential", and not posting any actual numbers to back said claims.

"This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”."

[snip] Also could you explain to me how sets that add to the base dmg of existing actions/abilities are "off" the GCD?

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Waffennacht

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. You've also never actually used the build that you claim is a "broken oversight", (and thus have no experience yourself) instead preferring the ranged based, full based proc dot setups on a bow stamcro.

You've created this thread only after you realized your own low weapon damage, proc dot based setup is getting a hefty nerf next update, with the title of: "Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible", focusing yet again on sets typically used for FB DW, omitting sets that actually have more burst potential, such as vate 2H. You claim that you're going to use these sets yourself next update (I would really like to actually see that myself), but then why name the title the way you did?

After all, when you made your "Proc Sets are Fun: The silent majority" post defending the incoming proc dot meta during the stonethorn PTS, you did not announce that the new and updated proc dot sets (that would eventually dominate the meta for some time) were going to be a broken, overtuned oversight and that you were going to use them anyway, but rather you phrased it as a necessary buff that was good for the " build diversity" of the game, to shake the meta up, that it was going to be fun, and that other sets deserve to be viable. Soon after we found ourselves in an unpopular proc dot meta... Meanwhile, the sets that you obsessively continue to target as "broken oversight and OP" still remain largely niche and uncommon, and again, I'm sure they will still remain so next update, because it was never as broken as the proc dot sets that you've been defending and using yourself ever since.

That’s a lot of writing to not really say much of anything except trying to smear me. Look I get it, you use this setup and hate me because you think I’m out to get you by exposing your build so that it’s nerfed.

This thread isn’t about you, and I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness. I want Zenimax and testers to know about these sets that are ignoring proc scaling mechanics because that’s part of what the PTS is for.

This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”.

At no point did ZoS say all Proc sets will scale.

There are many that still do not scale; such as Eternal Hunt, Hunt Leader, etc

Its ok that they are not scaling

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

sabresandiego_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. You've also never actually used the build that you claim is a "broken oversight", (and thus have no experience yourself) instead preferring the ranged based, full based proc dot setups on a bow stamcro.

You've created this thread only after you realized your own low weapon damage, proc dot based setup is getting a hefty nerf next update, with the title of: "Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible", focusing yet again on sets typically used for FB DW, omitting sets that actually have more burst potential, such as vate 2H. You claim that you're going to use these sets yourself next update (I would really like to actually see that myself), but then why name the title the way you did?

After all, when you made your "Proc Sets are Fun: The silent majority" post defending the incoming proc dot meta during the stonethorn PTS, you did not announce that the new and updated proc dot sets (that would eventually dominate the meta for some time) were going to be a broken, overtuned oversight and that you were going to use them anyway, but rather you phrased it as a necessary buff that was good for the " build diversity" of the game, to shake the meta up, that it was going to be fun, and that other sets deserve to be viable. Soon after we found ourselves in an unpopular proc dot meta... Meanwhile, the sets that you obsessively continue to target as "broken oversight and OP" still remain largely niche and uncommon, and again, I'm sure they will still remain so next update, because it was never as broken as the proc dot sets that you've been defending and using yourself ever since.

That’s a lot of writing to not really say much of anything except trying to smear me. Look I get it, you use this setup and hate me because you think I’m out to get you by exposing your build so that it’s nerfed.

This thread isn’t about you, and I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness. I want Zenimax and testers to know about these sets that are ignoring proc scaling mechanics because that’s part of what the PTS is for.

This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”.

At no point did ZoS say all Proc sets will scale.

There are many that still do not scale; such as Eternal Hunt, Hunt Leader, etc

Its ok that they are not scaling

I think it’s ok too, Its best to adapt to whatever changes are made then it is to get upset about a video game.

Logically speaking: why would I run a set where I have to stack tons of weapon damage to make it viable when I can run master DW, undaunted infiltrator, malacath, and heartland with Dbl infused weapons for pure instant bonus burst damage with no scaling requirements instead?

With no scaling requirements I can optimize my other stats like armor/regen/pen and do things with jewelry like wear swift instead of infused/bloodthirsty since I don’t have to focus solely into weapon damage.

katorga

Waffennacht wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Also curious as to why the OP has omitted the more burstier sets such as vate 2h, ashen grip and even calurians on his list of "one shot" combo sets. Stacking further penetration at the expense of weapon damage and sustain, on top of sets that provide you barely any weapon damage, some max resources, and no sustain, is going to make your healing weak and your resources dry out fast. Trying to rely entirely on heavy attacks for sustain is risky and unreliable considering the amount of dodge roll spam these days.

And even then, this "one shot" rhetoric seems like a bunch of hyperbole. I would like to see the OP post some numbers to back his claim that using these sets somehow results in easy one shots.

All of the sets you listed are part of one shot builds on live but on PTS are now subject to proc scaling through weapon/spell damage. Master DW and undaunted infiltrator are not affected by scaling, thus allowing you to skip stacking wpn dmg and instead stack penetration with things like maces and krag.

This type of setup has been powerful for years because of how much front loaded burst is on every hit and so it’s funny that the devs let these sets escape the proc scaling changes. Personally, I will likely be running these sets myself. And to those who think master DW + undaunted infiltrator isn’t good -> don’t use it then.

The sets Im talking about are still going to provide more burst potential even if you don't reach the new 6.5k requirements to meet the current live values, as long you have some investment into weapon dmg. Especially with vate 2h, which itself will give you more weapon dmg just for getting stacks.

"This type of setup has been powerful for years...". What? Both UI and masters DW were buffed only last year in august. UI is a medium set that once gave you 2 lines of max magicka (before it was changed to max stamina) and the buff was about 33% weaker. Masters DW direct damage buff was added at the same time during the ongoing "set standardization" audit that was going on. The final value that was added was to make it more aligned with other "spammables" DPS-wise. How could this setup be powerful for "years" when it has been working the way it currently does for only 8 months?

I'm not saying this setup is bad, it can be quite good if you know what you're doing, but its nowhere near the "one shot players by simply heavy attacking + rending's weave" fantasy that you're alluding too, even with full pen. That's hyperbole.

And I'm quite sure the reason why the new scaling changes aren't affecting those sets is because they provide a flat damage modifier to the base damage of the actions/abilities themselves rather than acting as an additional, separate source of damage that works outside of the GCD, like how the various proc dot sets work for example.

As for this setup potentially becoming more common next update I don't really care, because I can confidently say after fighting people (although rarely) using this setup in no way did I get the feeling that it was "broken" or overly unfair to fight against when I compare it to all the other various builds I've fought over the years, especially considering the inherent weaknesses in builds such as these.

If you didn’t think it’s as good as I’ve described then you wouldn’t use it. But you do use it because it’s too good not to.

I use whatever makes a DW based sDK work, and have been doing so for years, long before many of the sets that you currently complain about were changed/buffed. I dont want to play a meta build; I'd rather create my own viable and effective builds. There's a reason why so many stam players are currently using 2H/SnB (especially sDKs), because ever since offensive SnB and DW were gutted years ago the current meta has become the obvious go-to build for most stam specced classes (because its intuitive), and there's many reasons for that.

You say its "too good" not to use it, but if that was the case we should already be seeing many more stam players running around using this setup, yet we continue to see the dominance of the more common 2H fb setups for most stam builds, and I highly doubt that's going to change next update. You've also never actually used the build that you claim is a "broken oversight", (and thus have no experience yourself) instead preferring the ranged based, full based proc dot setups on a bow stamcro.

You've created this thread only after you realized your own low weapon damage, proc dot based setup is getting a hefty nerf next update, with the title of: "Oversight: One Shot Builds Still Possible", focusing yet again on sets typically used for FB DW, omitting sets that actually have more burst potential, such as vate 2H. You claim that you're going to use these sets yourself next update (I would really like to actually see that myself), but then why name the title the way you did?

After all, when you made your "Proc Sets are Fun: The silent majority" post defending the incoming proc dot meta during the stonethorn PTS, you did not announce that the new and updated proc dot sets (that would eventually dominate the meta for some time) were going to be a broken, overtuned oversight and that you were going to use them anyway, but rather you phrased it as a necessary buff that was good for the " build diversity" of the game, to shake the meta up, that it was going to be fun, and that other sets deserve to be viable. Soon after we found ourselves in an unpopular proc dot meta... Meanwhile, the sets that you obsessively continue to target as "broken oversight and OP" still remain largely niche and uncommon, and again, I'm sure they will still remain so next update, because it was never as broken as the proc dot sets that you've been defending and using yourself ever since.

That’s a lot of writing to not really say much of anything except trying to smear me. Look I get it, you use this setup and hate me because you think I’m out to get you by exposing your build so that it’s nerfed.

This thread isn’t about you, and I’m not asking for nerfs. I really don’t care what Zenimax does. This thread is about awareness. I want Zenimax and testers to know about these sets that are ignoring proc scaling mechanics because that’s part of what the PTS is for.

This is the public test forum and testers should know that there are sets out there that give bonus burst damage off the global cool down that are not affected by the new “proc scaling mechanics”.

At no point did ZoS say all Proc sets will scale.

There are many that still do not scale; such as Eternal Hunt, Hunt Leader, etc

Its ok that they are not scaling

Now THAT would be cool, imagine Rattlecage scaling with some stat to 40% weapon damage.

Adenoma

@sabresandiego_ESO , post a recording of someone doing this on a buffed and unbuffed character.

divnyi

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Logically speaking: why would I run a set where I have to stack tons of weapon damage to make it viable when I can run master DW, undaunted infiltrator, malacath, and heartland with Dbl infused weapons for pure instant bonus burst damage with no scaling requirements instead?

Because there is no "pure instant bonus burst". You can however boost your DPS with effects that doesn't scale, but DPS alone doesn't kill.

sabresandiego_ESO

divnyi wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Logically speaking: why would I run a set where I have to stack tons of weapon damage to make it viable when I can run master DW, undaunted infiltrator, malacath, and heartland with Dbl infused weapons for pure instant bonus burst damage with no scaling requirements instead?

Because there is no "pure instant bonus burst". You can however boost your DPS with effects that doesn't scale, but DPS alone doesn't kill.

No, it’s burst damage because it happens all at once. Two UI buffed heavies, two MDW buffed rendings, and 2 infused enchants all strike at the exact same moment when you do a dual wield heavy with a rending slash. The DPS alone is somewhat balanced, but it’s the fact that it’s all instantaneous burst that makes it so wonderfully effective in pvp.

Athan1

*takes notes on broken builds*

YandereGirlfriend

Nothing is 'broken' until we see some evidence of this actually being a problem.

And by 'evidence' I don't mean one-shotting 16k HP PvE'ers in Cyrodiil... I mean effortlessly owning 30k+ HP players in high-level BGs. And not just once, but repeatedly and reproducibly.

Adenoma

@sabresandiego_ESO , just post some recordings or parses on people with varying resists. I get that’s burst, but there are other similarly burst options that take less work.

xylena_lazarow

Adenoma wrote: »

I get that’s burst, but there are other similarly burst options that take less work.

Yea you can still crouch inside your zerg then spam snipe on a solo! I wouldn't call HA into Rending "work" and Infiltrator+MDW is a strong combo on live that somehow escaped all the scaling nerfs. You may be right that it's no more annoying than Vatesh 2h burst builds, but the proof it's good is already out there.

Adenoma

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I get that’s burst, but there are other similarly burst options that take less work.

Yea you can still crouch inside your zerg then spam snipe on a solo! I wouldn't call HA into Rending "work" and Infiltrator+MDW is a strong combo on live that somehow escaped all the scaling nerfs. You may be right that it's no more annoying than Vatesh 2h burst builds, but the proof it's good is already out there.

I’m not disagreeing. I think objective data lends more to an argument. HA into rending (which I did for a long time because I hate dizzying swing meta) is definitely harder than brain dead X/Y delayed burst skill > medium attack vate > dawnbreaker > execute and much more regularly telegraphed.

Neither is a huge amount of work or thought. I’m not really a fan of either - just that ZOS has made it so that all other spammable options are pretty underwhelming barring certain classes or niche builds with how all stamina weapon lines have been neutered (and for that matter, how streamlined and limited Magicka weapons are).

Waffennacht

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

sabresandiego_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

Arcanasx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

ManDraKE

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Arcanasx

ManDraKE wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Well as you've mentioned, the issue seems to be more so with the stam sorc class kit and how they can interact with these sets, (particularly crystal weapon) rather than the sets themselves. As you've somewhat implied, it isn't just crystal weapon, but its the combination of also having streak, dark deal and even the minor expedition on their armor buff which all synergize together to make a build that has excellent mobility and burst potential while also having a good sustain skill as well. Just look at what stam sorcs can do with other burst setups, like the ones currently utilizing vate 2h, and it'll still be possible to get 6k plus weapon dmg with multiple proc sets next update so the proc burst builds (using hit and run or "proc and run") aren't going away. It isn't just UI and mDW that's enabling this, and I don't believe in nerfing specific sets because of what a certain class can do with it would be the right call here, especially after giving everyone 1k weapon/spell damage and reducing the effectiveness of battle spirit mitigation as well.

There's always going to be sets that have more synergy with certain classes and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Stam sorcs weren't exactly doing great during the tanky dot meta but now that its a burst meta where mobility has become more important it shouldn't be a surprise that they're doing good now. With that said, its still possible to counter these builds and they are far from unbeatable if you know what you're doing and have the right kind of build for it; there's still an element of rock, paper, and scissors balancing in the game and that isn't going to change anytime soon. People badly wanted a nerf to the tank meta, so here we are, where power generally shifts to classes that have the most innate burst and mobility advantages. And I'm sure as people continue to complain about the volatile rapid health bar moving meta we're currently in, we'll probably start seeing more buffs toward general tankiness yet again.

gariondavey

Arcanasx wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Well as you've mentioned, the issue seems to be more so with the stam sorc class kit and how they can interact with these sets, (particularly crystal weapon) rather than the sets themselves. As you've somewhat implied, it isn't just crystal weapon, but its the combination of also having streak, dark deal and even the minor expedition on their armor buff which all synergize together to make a build that has excellent mobility and burst potential while also having a good sustain skill as well. Just look at what stam sorcs can do with other burst setups, like the ones currently utilizing vate 2h, and it'll still be possible to get 6k plus weapon dmg with multiple proc sets next update so the proc burst builds (using hit and run or "proc and run") aren't going away. It isn't just UI and mDW that's enabling this, and I don't believe in nerfing specific sets because of what a certain class can do with it would be the right call here, especially after giving everyone 1k weapon/spell damage and reducing the effectiveness of battle spirit mitigation as well.

There's always going to be sets that have more synergy with certain classes and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Stam sorcs weren't exactly doing great during the tanky dot meta but now that its a burst meta where mobility has become more important it shouldn't be a surprise that they're doing good now. With that said, its still possible to counter these builds and they are far from unbeatable if you know what you're doing and have the right kind of build for it; there's still an element of rock, paper, and scissors balancing in the game and that isn't going to change anytime soon. People badly wanted a nerf the tank meta, so here we are, where power generally shifts to classes that have the most innate burst and mobility advantages. And I'm sure as people continue to complain about the volatile rapid health bar moving meta we're currently in, we'll probably start seeing more buffs toward general tankiness yet again.

I agree. At the same time, blast bones or shalks into the combo works just as nicely as the crystal weapon. Anyone with a good delayed burst skill, so not templars or dks

YandereGirlfriend

ManDraKE wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Asking for set nerfs is one thing but doubling-down and trying to sneak in a backdoor nerf to Stamina Sorcerers is quite another.

There is nothing at all wrong with Crystal Weapon - please direct your crusade for a nerf elsewhere.

ManDraKE

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Asking for set nerfs is one thing but doubling-down and trying to sneak in a backdoor nerf to Stamina Sorcerers is quite another.

There is nothing at all wrong with Crystal Weapon - please direct your crusade for a nerf elsewhere.

"there is nothing wrong because i say so", solid arguments right there. Everyone who has ever set foot in a high MMR BG match knows that Crystal weapon is overtuned, specially given the current meta.

Crystal weapon is the main reason why everyone is forced to run high HP builds

xylena_lazarow

ManDraKE wrote: »

Everyone who has ever set foot in a high MMR BG match knows that Crystal weapon is overtuned, specially given the current meta. Crystal weapon is the main reason why everyone is forced to run high HP builds

Meanwhile in cp cyro, never heard a complaint about it, was never the subject of hate tells I got. Maybe it's time we just pick one, cp or no-cp, really don't care which, just pick one and actually balance it.

Sanctum74

ManDraKE wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really think ull once again hurt PvE more than PvP with this change

Almost all sets that provide bonus damage in one form or another were made to scale except for master DW, undaunted infiltrator, and a few others that still provide large amounts of upfront burst with no stat investments. I personally don't care if this changes or not, but it should definitely brought to attention on the "public test forums"

I've already said this before, but UI and mDW don't work the same way as sets such as red mountain, caluurions, unleashed terror, sheer venom, crimson, etc because the other sets are off your GCD and act as a separate source of damage. Unlike the others, UI and mDW adds damage to the existing damage of abilities/actions themselves, (similar to what weapon/spell damage/max resources does) and outside of the buffed DOT damage from rendings, you'll need to actively attack to get the most use out of these sets, while with the other sets you can play more passively and defensive (including "proc and kite") during their cooldowns and still receive much of the benefit.

all good until you pair them with cristal weapon and can have 4 things proc from a LA that can crit and don't need stats to scale, and that can be pre-buffed outside your combo, so from the reciving end is all burst in a single GCD withouth any counters. The whole "you need to use GCDs to buff them" doesn't hold when i can come around the corner and instant proc everything on you, that is why most of the people already do on BGs anyway, is not like fights are frontal 1v1 duels.

I dont mind these sets in general, they add build diversity and never had a problem with them, i dont think they need to be nerfed, maybe just reducing a little the damage of master's DW that i think is a bit overtune since the last buff, but there are some ways to combine these sets that makes really toxic gameplay imo. If they are to remain like these, then we need to ask for changes to cristal weapon. Having the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game coming in an out of combat with pre-buffed oneshoots (plus undoggeable AoE execute damage) is really not good gameplay, it forces everyone to be above 32k HP or get bursted instantly.

Asking for set nerfs is one thing but doubling-down and trying to sneak in a backdoor nerf to Stamina Sorcerers is quite another.

There is nothing at all wrong with Crystal Weapon - please direct your crusade for a nerf elsewhere.

"there is nothing wrong because i say so", solid arguments right there. Everyone who has ever set foot in a high MMR BG match knows that Crystal weapon is overtuned, specially given the current meta.

Crystal weapon is the main reason why everyone is forced to run high HP builds

So we should nerf it just because you say so? Lol, you are the first person I’ve ever heard complain about crystal weapon. It’s far from being op and just brought an underperforming class up to a mediocre level. Regardless the thread isn’t even about that so maybe start your own thread with the same solid argument you expect from others.

ManDraKE

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Everyone who has ever set foot in a high MMR BG match knows that Crystal weapon is overtuned, specially given the current meta. Crystal weapon is the main reason why everyone is forced to run high HP builds

Meanwhile in cp cyro, never heard a complaint about it, was never the subject of hate tells I got. Maybe it's time we just pick one, cp or no-cp, really don't care which, just pick one and actually balance it.

CP balance trends to be different in general, is very common for some things to be disruptive in one enviroment and not in the other. Procs sets are another example, they far more disruptive on nonCP. Also cyrodril is nonProc for the moment, so you can't draw comparisions, on BGs people is using Crystal weapon+Frenziend momentum+Ashen grip (or some variantons of it) as their combo, you cant do that on cyro.

Sanctum74 wrote:

So we should nerf it just because you say so? Lol, you are the first person I’ve ever heard complain about crystal weapon.

Is because you are not playing on the same level, is as simple as that. High MMR CPs on PC/NA are infested with burst-stamsorcs, and on PC/EU the only reason they are not as prevalent as in NA, is because everyone in high MMR is running very high HP pool (35-40k nonCP), making burst build less viable in general. I dont know how is the situation in consoles, but i wouldn't care to much for it, console always trends to be 4-5 months behind in the meta

Sanctum74

ManDraKE wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Everyone who has ever set foot in a high MMR BG match knows that Crystal weapon is overtuned, specially given the current meta. Crystal weapon is the main reason why everyone is forced to run high HP builds

Meanwhile in cp cyro, never heard a complaint about it, was never the subject of hate tells I got. Maybe it's time we just pick one, cp or no-cp, really don't care which, just pick one and actually balance it.

CP balance trends to be different in general, is very common for some things to be disruptive in one enviroment and not in the other. Procs sets are another example, they far more disruptive on nonCP. Also cyrodril is nonProc for the moment, so you can't draw comparisions, on BGs people is using Crystal weapon+Frenziend momentum+Ashen grip (or some variantons of it) as their combo, you cant do that on cyro.

Sanctum74 wrote:

So we should nerf it just because you say so? Lol, you are the first person I’ve ever heard complain about crystal weapon.

Is because you are not playing on the same level, is as simple as that. High MMR CPs on PC/NA are infested with burst-stamsorcs, and on PC/EU the only reason they are not as prevalent as in NA, is because everyone in high MMR is running very high HP pool (35-40k nonCP), making burst build less viable in general. I dont know how is the situation in consoles, but i wouldn't care to much for it, console always trends to be 4-5 months behind in the meta

It’s got nothing to do with high mmr or crystal weapon. People were stacking health long before they even introduced crystal weapon because of power creep, proc sets, skills not working, and desyncs.

You haven’t given any reason at all as to why it should get nerfed other than you have trouble fighting against it. If it was that op there would be nerf threads all over the forums.

ManDraKE

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s got nothing to do with high mmr or crystal weapon. People were stacking health long before they even introduced crystal weapon because of power creep, proc sets, skills not working, and desyncs.

You haven’t given any reason at all as to why it should get nerfed other than you have trouble fighting against it. If it was that op there would be nerf threads all over the forums.

i gave my reasons in my reply to Arcanasx, and he seems to agree for the most part. I dont need to explain any more, if you play high MMR BGs, you should be aware of this. We may disagree in how to tackle/solve the issue at hand, but saying that there is no issue simply reflects that you are no playing at high MMR BGs, that's all.

Sanctum74

ManDraKE wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s got nothing to do with high mmr or crystal weapon. People were stacking health long before they even introduced crystal weapon because of power creep, proc sets, skills not working, and desyncs.

You haven’t given any reason at all as to why it should get nerfed other than you have trouble fighting against it. If it was that op there would be nerf threads all over the forums.

i gave my reasons in my reply to Arcanasx, and he seems to agree for the most part. I dont need to explain any more, if you play high MMR BGs, you should be aware of this. We may disagree in how to tackle/solve the issue at hand, but saying that there is no issue simply reflects that you are no playing at high MMR BGs, that's all.

And you proved my point it’s only op when paired with certain sets so we agree there is no reason for a nerf.

Edit: No class should ever be nerfed because of proc sets or you end up like magnb. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]