Get 100% MORE damage by animation cancelling

Amottica · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Since it has been conclusively proven that

1. light attack animation canceling substantially increases DPS
2. people can get great DPS without doing it
3. it represent most of the discrepancy between mid and higher level DPS
4. with high ping rate it is unattainable to many

Zos could look at fixing this if 'lowering the ceiling' is a true goal.

BTW just tested on PTS with 50 ping (never spiked to 999+ once OMG), and I can actually do LA/AC much easier, I would almost say if they could fix their live server so most people had less than 100-200ms ping, it would be make this issue less extreme

1. Substantially is a subjective term. You keep using 30k as the number, then later you say 30-100%. These arent true no matter how many times you repeat them, and you are inflating the values. LAs come down to the Damage it self, ult generation, and enchant procs (these can come from other sources). A perfected rotation resulting in 100k would be probably in the low 80s with no weave. LA weaving is 50% of your APMs for call it 20% (maybe 25%) of damage. Seems like a pretty good spot.

2. Again, great is subjective. Enough to clear content? Yep! Enough to push all the tri-fectas (clearly the game is balanced around LA weaving), nope. In fact, I take the other side of this argument. No reason to mess with it. You dont need to do it to clear content, but you do need to do it and practice it if you want all the difficult achievements and titles. Again, Seems like a pretty good spot. Every everyone could install ESO and get Godslayer, the title would have no meaning.

3. Hard disagree. The rotation itself is what does it. Weaving is a small part of the rotation (and frankly one of the easier parts), but not even close to the whole thing. Skill order and pace and much more important.

4. Inconsistent ping can cause issues, but high ping should not. I can parse close to 100k on a dummy, but I play with Aussies that can wipe the floor with me, and their ping is quadruple mine. I will say that with high ping, animation canceling does look much more choppy. But I am never going to get on board with balancing the game around high ping.

To be candid, you didn't conclusively prove anything. You are trying to deal in absolutes when everything is a shade of grey. If you are only pulling 30k on a dummy, animation canceling is very low on your list of problems.

1. You yourself conclusively proved it, that using the exact same build/rotation (which BTW seems fishy because there are no heavy attacks and never runs out of Mag and spamming crystal frag would never work in reality) but original was 100K, yours was 70K so that is 30% decrease. I will not go into it for the hundredth time but LA damage itself is only PART of the benefit. LA/AC allows you to get 2 action in 1 sec, which as you point out LA gives you ult/glyph/etc, so if you get 1 LA per sec extra all that stuff has chance to go off, compared to if you do LA without LA/AC each LA cost a GCD (you have to CHOOSE when to do LA or skill, it creates an opportunity cost, not just FREE LA with all the benefits of it)
And 100% increase is actually easy, I went from like 8K DPS to 16K with just doing LA/AC about 30%, so it has diminishing returns but still SUBSTANTIAL.

2. GREAT means enough to easily clear all content in the game. Any achievements which 99% of people could care less about would just be scaled to having max DPS at 70K for everyone, that is easy.

3. I said MOST, but actually crit chance/damage is probably the other biggest factor, if those were capped at 50% then the insane powercreep would also be much reduced (bringing mid level closer to high end DPS). BTW just like what YOU PROVED with the dummy, we are talking about using the exact same rotation and changing other variables (like LA/CA or I'd also like to see 50% crit cap). If we were talking about a terrible rotation vs a good rotation that is completely different topic. And I would agree that it was very important, but that deals with going from a beginner to a mid level, what we are addressing here is why is a mid level person with same gear/rotation/etc having 30+% less DPS than higher end.

4. Everyone positively knows lag is a big issue and I am talking about spiking to 999+, not just being over 150 ping, I spent a week on PTS with FPS 40-60 (on live it is 30 cause I also have old laptop which doesn't help either) and ping about 60, and it is night and day difference, like I said when I can literally SEE LA/AC happen I can actually do it, on live the animation is too slow to know when to cancel it, but as I said I could see using PTS to train yourself how to do it, then try in live, on PTS I saw 999+ I think once on live I see it all the time, if you don't know what red 999+ is you are super lucky

Thank you very much for helping to definitively prove that LA/AC should be seriously looked into by ZOS.

[Snip]
1. This is exactly what people do. In trials too. They get good results.
2. Well, most of it is "easily" passable with that damage if everyone are following mechanics.
3. No. It won't. It will just make no one build into crit, people will build into other things, other things will be "meta" and people like you will still be on the forums crying that meta gear should be nerfed, even though it is barely 5% above non meta gear.
4. Now that's something we can agree on! Most of the l2p issues players have with the game, are the bugs and lags, if zos really wants to "higher the floor" they should fix those.

PS, from your last message, it really feels like your beef is not with animation canceling, but bad latency, be it on your side, or server side, you can't blame latency for "animation canceling" while in truth your pc just won't play what it should in time.

1. LA/AC represents 30-100% of DPS, CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN,

Since it is conclusively proven that LA/AC can represent as much as 100$ of DPS can you please provide that conclusive information? It would be great to see those parses to see what is happening. Maybe even videos to go along with them.

I seriously ask since I do not see these things as a new player. Even the original claim of this thread, that LA weaving doubles our damage, seemed to have been heavily demonstrated it is not correct. It seems from comments in this thread that the upper end might be as high as 30%.

I was sent to ESO Logs, a great site, to see for myself and found that those with higher percentages of DPS from LAs also did solid damage before LAs were considered. As the amount of damage from LAs dropped the rest of the rest of the performance had dropped. In none did I see any breach 30%.

MudcrabAttack · May 2021

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

jssriot · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Animation Canceling, according to Eric Wrobel on ESO Live:
"Animation canceling is a part of the game and we want people to be doing it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Yeah. The first person to help me learn anim cancel and LA weaving years ago was someone who played since beta and was like, "yeah, players figured out how to do it and rather than ZOS changing it to stop players from doing it, they just decided to let it stay in the game."

It was initially kind of seen as a cheat, with players not sure if ZOS would address it or not, and for a long time some players felt it was, and maybe some still do, but this is where we are. I just wish that ZOS could try to make the combat system more friendly for people with disabilities, older players and/or players with less than ideal internet or PC specs to compete with players who don't have to play this game with those limitations. Once ZOS just let this become the norm for achieving top tier DPS they gave the middle finger to accessibility and created an in-game culture that caters to this sort of privilege and is hostile to anyone else, whether they will admit that or not.

Good job, ZOS.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

that comment, by Jessica Folsom, is proof enough that its free damage that is not intended and that high amount of instant FAST Damage should be removed.

Sorry, your picture didn't come through.
Link: https://imgur.com/CGS12Mx.png

Edit: sometimes I see the image, sometimes I don't. Weird.

And I don't think it says what you think it says.

Question to Gina Bruno: is animation canceling (light attack -> skill -> block) an intended mechanic? Any plans to prevent people from using this to maximize DPS?

Answer from Jessica Folsom: Not exactly intended, but not an exploit. It's one of those things we didn't really expect.

A. That's talking about block canceling, not light attack weaving.
B. You don't have a date on that image, which makes that statement hard to contextualize in terms of changes to ESO over the years and in light of other Devs comments.. ZOS has made a lot of changes to diminish block canceling, while explicitly teaching and balancing for light attack weaving. (Edited: when the image loads, I see that you've referenced it from axi's post above, where they say it's from before the game launched.)
C. She answers the "is it intended" part. It's not an exploit, so there's no obvious reason why the Devs should remove it.

As an example of one of the Dev comments I'm thinking of, here's then Lead Combat Designer Eric Wrobel on ESO Live in 2015:
"Animation canceling...we're embracing it. Animation canceling is a part of the game and we want people to be doing it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

[/quote]

Actually, I think they are talking about both. It is specifically asked in the context of increasing damage. People used to believe that block canceling actually increased your DPS. It does not. (bash cancelling does, but not by much these days). The LA weave is what increases damage in this example. Either way, it has been embraced by the devs since launch.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Obviously if you tune a game without taking into account an 'unintended programming error', especially when that error gives exploiters 30-100% higher DPS, it shows exactly why some content is too easy for 5% and just right for 95% of people. The game effects of this aren't even the whole story, for people who have no clue about programming, there is a basic concept called 'unhandled exception' which happens when you don't take into account something that might happen and give specific instructions what to do. EX.

If X do (A)
If Y do (B)
If Z "oops we didn't think anyone would do Z so we'll just hang here for a while and maybe after this happens 50 times the system will lag out"

It has been absolutely proven without an doubt
1. LA/AC gives some people 30-100% more DPS
2. A mechanic that gives even 10% more DPS should not be completely based on precise timing of .1-.2 seconds when there is network/system lag and spikes that makes it extremely difficult (and might be even causing the lag)

Again with the miss information. Please stop with the 30-100% nonsense. You have been shown ad nauseum that this is objectively false. You haven't proven anything in this regard. Your second point isn't even something that can be "proved" as its a personal opinion of yours. An opinion that is not shared by any skilled player I have talked to in all my time in game or on these forums, which is quite a lot. You want a game balanced around poor internet and an inability to press buttons in a competent manner, sorry not on board.

Also, AC was brought to light beta. The game has been balanced and rebalanced countless times since then with this specifically in mind. Classes, Skills, Gear Sets, Enemy Stats, Achievements, have all been designed and balanced around AC since the game was officially launched.

Should we tell him where AC done incorrectly can cause your DPS to actually take a nose dive?

Example: Necro - Boneyard. You can ani cancel by taking a synergy as well if you know how to time it right (and everyone pushing 80k plus can generally time it right) however this skill in particular if you ani cancel with a synergy it will also cancel the cast of the skill. You aren’t only losing your DOT you are also losing your synergy for even more damage and possibly some sustain though Necro has zero sustain issues to begin with.

Or try ani canceling ele weapon incorrectly and watching your toon stand there dry humping the air. It kind of hilarious actually until you realize every time you miss that LA you are wasting 2GCD and a boatload of damage (20-30k)

And then there the skills like jabs/sweeps with a channel time of 1 second but an animation that lasts longer than one second. Templar rotations look choppy because of this, luckily there is so much bling bling generally going on around you that you’ll barely even notice, especially if you are mag.

Speaking of magplar, try barswap canceling off the wrong skills and tell me how that works out. I mean many of us already know the answer here. It’s the rotation (order you cast the skills) that gives people the big damage numbers. Fitting an LA in between each only enhances a great rotation. Timing your ultimate and using the correct ultimate for the situation (off balance enemies will take more damage from different ultimate.) Using sets like acuity takes an even more refined rotation to get the most damage out of your dots and spamables. Using sets like deadly requires 100% uptimes on all dots to ensure you are getting that damage as well. Learning to hit those 80k+ numbers while wearing MK + Zen is a complete mastery of rotation and will add way more damage than ani canceling or LA weaving.

If only the OP understood what it actually takes to hit these kinds of numbers. It’s a delicate dance, not some mindless spamming of skills as fast as humanly possible.

If trying to shrink the gap, looking at skills like Frags, Jabs, Boneyard, etc., that cause issues with bar swapping and weaving would certainly be helpful. Its not that weaving a frags hard cast is harder, its that it locks your ability to bar swap. Therefore, someone that is better at managing an overall rotation is going to do better with this skill. These types of skills certainly play into the damage gap.

But most importantly, rotation is what allows players to hit the big numbers. LA weaving and animation cancelling are only a very small part of that. They are icing on the cake at best. If you only pull 30-40k DPS on a dummy, your issue is not in your ability to animation cancel, its with your ability to manage your rotation (buffs, DOTs, Potions, ultimate's, execute phase, etc.) AC wont bring you to 80k+, learning your rotation will.

I showed objectively how you can pull great damage from any meta rotation without AC of any kind. I am able to do that because I can otherwise manage the rest of elements of a rotation at a relatively high level, but it has nothing to do with AC. Blaming AC for lack of DPS shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how you achieve high DPS in ESO. Thankfully, we don't let these players balance the game.

Merforum · May 2021

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

Yes you are exactly correct. LA/AC accounts for MASSIVE amount of FREE damage especially at the lower end. For instance, my brother was doing about 10K DPS with magplar spamming sweeps and that was about it, until he found this new exploit called LA/AC, he practiced a lot and could do it about 30-50% but his DPS did go up to 20-25K ONLY DOING THAT AND SWEEPS.

I saw a vid with Alcast, which has since been removed, where he said LA/AC was unintended bug probably exploit, he didn't want to do it because of how cheesy it is, BUT it increased his damage by so much that everyone should take advantage of it if and until it gets fixed. That was what made me try it in the first place. And my DPS did go from like 8K to 15-20K, and I was really bad at it maybe 20-30% actually doing it and 70% having wasted LA/skills.

It is funny there are literally hundred of vids/forum posts, talking about how people did this and went from 15-20K to 30-40K at 50% LA/AC, and 50-70K at 75%, and 90-100K at 90%. And the exact same people talk about how easy that is and how lazy and stupid everyone is for not doing this simple thing. Now they are like no LA/AC doesn't do that much damage at all.

Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best.

This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy humpers and mid level

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

Yes you are exactly correct. LA/AC accounts for MASSIVE amount of FREE damage especially at the lower end. For instance, my brother was doing about 10K DPS with magplar spamming sweeps and that was about it, until he found this new exploit called LA/AC, he practiced a lot and could do it about 30-50% but his DPS did go up to 20-25K ONLY DOING THAT AND SWEEPS.

I saw a vid with Alcast, which has since been removed, where he said LA/AC was unintended bug probably exploit, he didn't want to do it because of how cheesy it is, BUT it increased his damage by so much that everyone should take advantage of it if and until it gets fixed. That was what made me try it in the first place. And my DPS did go from like 8K to 15-20K, and I was really bad at it maybe 20-30% actually doing it and 70% having wasted LA/skills.

It is funny there are literally hundred of vids/forum posts, talking about how people did this and went from 15-20K to 30-40K at 50% LA/AC, and 50-70K at 75%, and 90-100K at 90%. And the exact same people talk about how easy that is and how lazy and stupid everyone is for not doing this simple thing. Now they are like no LA/AC doesn't do that much damage at all.

Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best.

This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy humpers and mid level

Do you even read what people write before making claims of all the things you have proved?

"I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds"

"If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations."

You are missing the point. If you go from 1 skill every 2 seconds to one skill every second, your damage will double right there, full stop. That is NOT a result of animation canceling. That is playing within the pace of global cooldowns. He also mentions, keeping up damage over time skills, again, that is not AC, that is just managing a rotation. If you do all the things listed, your of course your damage would more than double, as he stated. The light attacks have very little do do with that increase. Are the part of it? Sure, but a small part. Rotation is the foundation of great DPS, not animation canceling.

Your quote: "Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best."

Assume you are talking about my parse. First, that bold part IS a rotation. Second, my sustain is just fine. My resource drain is 103 below my resource use, that is perfectly sustainable on a dummy and in actual content. Third, I can get all the personal buffs I need form my potions. 4th, I can easily drop a dot on any fight where I need to slot a shield. There is nothing unviable about what I did.

Furthermore, I did not do 25% AC in that parse. I casts light attacks in place of skills as you suggested. the total number of cast+skills is 297, total seconds is 296. At most that boils down to 0.03% of AC, but more likely its just a rounding error. There is nothing cheesy about that build or rotation. In fact is a more simplified version of a rotation that I use in real content all the time. I can take that exact same setup and walk into any content in the game.

You offer no evidence that this would drop to 50k with no LA/AC. There was none to begin with. You also offer no evidence that it would drop to 25k in actual content. You are literally just making stuff up to justify your position. Every fight is different. Sure there are some fights where you cant pull a lot of DPS but there are plenty where your DPS is within a few% (often actually more) than a target dummy parse. Again, you offer no evidence that this rotation would fall like that.

The only person in this thread that has actually come with receipts and shown hard numbers is me. You have not proved anything. You present fictitious claims based on absurd assumptions and then claim you have proved something. That's not how any of this works.

Sanguinor2 · May 2021

Honestly amazed that this thread is still up. Pure bait at this point.

Merforum · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

Yes you are exactly correct. LA/AC accounts for MASSIVE amount of FREE damage especially at the lower end. For instance, my brother was doing about 10K DPS with magplar spamming sweeps and that was about it, until he found this new exploit called LA/AC, he practiced a lot and could do it about 30-50% but his DPS did go up to 20-25K ONLY DOING THAT AND SWEEPS.

I saw a vid with Alcast, which has since been removed, where he said LA/AC was unintended bug probably exploit, he didn't want to do it because of how cheesy it is, BUT it increased his damage by so much that everyone should take advantage of it if and until it gets fixed. That was what made me try it in the first place. And my DPS did go from like 8K to 15-20K, and I was really bad at it maybe 20-30% actually doing it and 70% having wasted LA/skills.

It is funny there are literally hundred of vids/forum posts, talking about how people did this and went from 15-20K to 30-40K at 50% LA/AC, and 50-70K at 75%, and 90-100K at 90%. And the exact same people talk about how easy that is and how lazy and stupid everyone is for not doing this simple thing. Now they are like no LA/AC doesn't do that much damage at all.

Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best.

This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy humpers and mid level

Again,
This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy parsers and mid level DPS

Sanguinor2 · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Again,
This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy parsers and mid level DPS

Again, it does not.
1. Its not cheese damage its damage the devs intend us to do.
2. There would still be differences in rotation, build, availability of buffs and debuffs, uptimes of said buffs and debuffs, group composition, execution of mechanics in actual combat to consider aswell as people loosing dps by either doing too many light attacks if they are on the gcd or too little and loosing out on ult casts they would normally get. Gap still there Im afraid.

Merforum · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

Yes you are exactly correct. LA/AC accounts for MASSIVE amount of FREE damage especially at the lower end. For instance, my brother was doing about 10K DPS with magplar spamming sweeps and that was about it, until he found this new exploit called LA/AC, he practiced a lot and could do it about 30-50% but his DPS did go up to 20-25K ONLY DOING THAT AND SWEEPS.

I saw a vid with Alcast, which has since been removed, where he said LA/AC was unintended bug probably exploit, he didn't want to do it because of how cheesy it is, BUT it increased his damage by so much that everyone should take advantage of it if and until it gets fixed. That was what made me try it in the first place. And my DPS did go from like 8K to 15-20K, and I was really bad at it maybe 20-30% actually doing it and 70% having wasted LA/skills.

It is funny there are literally hundred of vids/forum posts, talking about how people did this and went from 15-20K to 30-40K at 50% LA/AC, and 50-70K at 75%, and 90-100K at 90%. And the exact same people talk about how easy that is and how lazy and stupid everyone is for not doing this simple thing. Now they are like no LA/AC doesn't do that much damage at all.

Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best.

This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy humpers and mid level

Again,
This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy parsers and mid level DPS

Other FACTS about removing LA/AC and it's FREE damage from game;

1. Either it will result in massive closing of gap between high and mid level as I say
2. Or it makes no difference, as people scared of losing this massive crutch say

In either case, there is NO reason to keep such a cheesy mechanic, so EVERYONE seems to AGREE.

Everest_Lionheart · May 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It's all about how fast you use skills. I was watching my friend on discord earlier struggling to break past 1 skill per 2 seconds because he was very new to the rotation, and dps with a bow build in general, and maybe 1/3 of the light attacks were landing. The massive Hawke eye buff would stop and start again. Now he's using transmute crystals to make a set of Kinra but I'm trying to tell him it won't help unless more light attacks can land.

If he would speed up to 1 skill per second and land way more of the light attacks, and keep up damage over time skills, then yeah, he would be doing at least 100% more damage while cancelling animations.

Yes you are exactly correct. LA/AC accounts for MASSIVE amount of FREE damage especially at the lower end. For instance, my brother was doing about 10K DPS with magplar spamming sweeps and that was about it, until he found this new exploit called LA/AC, he practiced a lot and could do it about 30-50% but his DPS did go up to 20-25K ONLY DOING THAT AND SWEEPS.

I saw a vid with Alcast, which has since been removed, where he said LA/AC was unintended bug probably exploit, he didn't want to do it because of how cheesy it is, BUT it increased his damage by so much that everyone should take advantage of it if and until it gets fixed. That was what made me try it in the first place. And my DPS did go from like 8K to 15-20K, and I was really bad at it maybe 20-30% actually doing it and 70% having wasted LA/skills.

It is funny there are literally hundred of vids/forum posts, talking about how people did this and went from 15-20K to 30-40K at 50% LA/AC, and 50-70K at 75%, and 90-100K at 90%. And the exact same people talk about how easy that is and how lazy and stupid everyone is for not doing this simple thing. Now they are like no LA/AC doesn't do that much damage at all.

Even with a cheesed out, completely unviable, trial dummy humping build spamming crystal frag and a bunch of DOTs & aoes with literally no sustain/personal buff/healing/shielding skills on the bars, the best anyone could do is 70K DPS (and that not 0% LA/AC but 25%). That drops to 50K with NO LA/AC. And in actual content fighting a world boss lets say that DPS goes down to 25K at best.

This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy humpers and mid level

Again,
This very thread PROVE UNEQUIVOCALLY
1. LA/AC represent massive FREE cheese damage
2. Fixing this would instantly close the gap between trial dummy parsers and mid level DPS

Mid level are AC, but missing key parts of their rotation and letting dots/buffs fall off, missing pots on cooldown, using the wrong ultimate at the wrong time, etc. You are going to drop them by this magical 50% as well if you remove it.

You are also going to put content out of reach even for the top players in this game. Gods later runs require 3DPS to hit 42K while dealing with some of the most punishing mechanics you will ever see in the game. Players need every bit of the 85+ they are doing now when you drop down there unbuffed casting shields and heals while fighting down there.

The only choice will be to give trials the Frostvault treatment and make them laughably easier if they change what is a core mechanic to the combat system.

I would much rather they spend time fixing desyncs, invisible adds and overlapping mechanics that aren’t supposed to overlap. When HM has an extra HM because the actual game is broken that’s gone too far.

Psiion · May 2021

Greetings,

After review, we have gone ahead and closed this thread down as it is no longer constructive, and mostly back and forth arguments. While we understand disagreements are natural, the forums are intended to be a welcoming place for civil and constructive discussion and Baiting is not conducive to that.

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