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Get 100% MORE damage by animation cancelling
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Noob not understanding here.
OP seems to be suggesting that one can fire off twice as many skills merely due to weaving light attacks. Yes I weave but I do not see that I am doing twice as many skills in the same timeframe as a result of weaving.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »100% more damage? Yikes. You are assuming people use a light attack instead of an actual skill. I think it would be more accurate to assume people would either light attack weave or just use skills with no light attacks. If you are someone who is actually light attacking instead of using skills (as in the second equation), you would get way more damage by just leaving out light attacks altogether and just using skills. While light attacks comprise a large portion of damage for those who light attack weave (since you are doing one along with each skill), they are quite weak if you use them in place of a skill.
Actually with literally everyone in the world telling everyone they have to light attack in between each skill, everyone is at least trying to do it. But that actually makes it even worse because when you are doing LA too fast it doesn't even register and sometimes the skill doesn't register. I usually lose DPS when I play that way. I found with my playstyle on basically all builds, I am better off doing 3-4 skills with Heavy and repeat.
What you are pointing out is the reason WHY they need to fix this, it is creating more of a disparity that even my example shows by telling everyone to do this but it being so hard that only few people can or want to do it.
Please don't say literally when you mean figuratively. Plenty of people play this game without a LA weave. If you want min/maxed damage, then yes, you should weave EVERY skill. To be candid, it sounds like you need practice and your APMs are very low. You can complete all content save a few achievements with a heavy attack rotation as you described. Plenty of people do it.
But why should we balance a skill game with MANY levels of difficulty around the lowest common denominator? In my opinion, we should not.
Exactly. Light attacks account for...what...20% of damage give or take? And that’s with someone perfectly weaving. So if you just do a skill every second you should still be able to do adequate damage. Maybe as much as 70-80k on the 21m dummy. Ultimate regen might be an issue but sprinkle in some heavies.
Instead of guessing why don't you test it. How much damage would you do if you did your rotation without AC? I bet it will be more than 50% less.
Being you are making the claim please provide video evidence for the claim. Even though I am new to the game I tend to agree with the others here. Especially the ones providing actual information.0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭MudcrabAttack wrote: »The buffering idea makes sense, or maybe something like attack memory. Currently if a skill is qued before the light attack has a chance to happen, it overwrites the light attack. They shouldn't drop the light attack, but rather let both happen. Block/ bash and dodge roll still should overwrite both. This would do nothing to help people who don't already weave, but it would alleviate some of the frustration from those in the middle.
Thanks that is very true. It never made sense that you had to time it perfectly other than the fact that it was unintended bug. But if they could make it easier to do that would be a big help. But ideally they should just add LA to GCD and many problems solved.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭70K isnt terrible DPS however as the Oreyn stated, people are getting 100K+ by LA weaving.
Groups doing HMs want at least 80K DPS to join those runs.
Those people arent going to be happy with losing 30K+ DPS where they will actually have to do mechanics to complete their HM trials instead of just burning the boss down before most of the mechanics kick in.Beta tester November 20130 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Less than that, I wouldn't hit 100k with a static rotation like that. That was a brain dead rotation with zero practice to show you once again that your original premise was flawed. Animation Canceling does NOT double your DPS, which is the title of your thread. Your premise is fundamentally incorrect, and all your straw man arguments don't change that.
If anything it shows that you dont need to LA weave to clear content, but if you want to push the harder achievements/titles, you need some practice, and you need to do more in your rotation. Could you clear all Vet content like that? Probably. Could you get titles like Godslayer? No way. That is an amazingly healthy balance if you ask me. This isn't little league in the 21st century. You don't get everything just by showing up.
Also, that rotation was painfully boring. You could teach a Gibbon to do that rotation. It was only slightly difficult because I had to fight 7 years of instinct. Eliminating AC would remove any skill from the game, so as solutions go, its an absolutely terrible one. The end game community would do a mass exodus.
Thankfully, its all academic. AC ain't going anywhere. I see 3 options. Find a less skill based game, embrace the fact that you will never get some of the harder titles and keep enjoying this wonderful game, or you know, actually work at getting better. That last one is not for everyone.
The title is partially sarcastic, but I did go from 8K DPS to 16K when I started playing by doing LA weaving with AC about 30%. Then I tried a Heavy attack build that was much easier and consistently higher DPS.
But unsarcastically you have proven that
1. players don't need to do AC to get great DPS, literally the opposite of many who say fixing it would ruin game, so ZOS should consider that (IF reducing ceiling is a real goal)
2. instead of telling everyone at mid level the only way to get better is AC, you could share the great build and rotation that you say anyone can do
No lie, if there is an easier way for me to go from 30K to 70K DPS with different gear/rotation WITHOUT AC, I would be greatly appreciative and I think many others would too.
There are no secrets to that build. Take any meta build/rotation and simply dont LA weave. You will lose 20k ish DPS. I am sorry, but I have little tolerance when "sarcasm" is used to justify a bad position. And truthfully, I don't think it was sarcasm until you were objectively shown that your estimate was wildly off.
I seriously mean no offense, but your DPS is so low that talking about going from 8-16k in percent terms is just not relevant in the broader discussion. Even at 30k, assuming you are talking about a trial dummy, means your build is either horrendous, or your ability to execute even simple rotation needs some serious practice.
If you want to talk about how to raise your DPS, I would LOVE to do so. I will bend over backwards to help someone get better in this game. However, if you want to continue to try to argue that ZOS should bring the ceiling crashing down onto the floor, well, you are going to get met with pushback. I am all for subtle changes to reduce the gap between those that actually try to get better but struggle and those at the very top, but you are basically suggesting a nuclear approach which I will NEVER support.
The build/rotation I used was this one from Sparrow. The only change was that every rotation I replaced 1 Crystal frags cast with a Light attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4p1Bp_O5xo&t=1s 7 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭70K isnt terrible DPS however as the Oreyn stated, people are getting 100K+ by LA weaving.
Groups doing HMs want at least 80K DPS to join those runs.
Those people arent going to be happy with losing 30K+ DPS where they will actually have to do mechanics to complete their HM trials instead of just burning the boss down before most of the mechanics kick in.
I think we all know ZOS has stated many times that the do NOT want people burning through content, skipping mechanics and the ceiling is too high. So this would seem to be the simplest/quickest fix to accomplish that goal. But also adding DPS caps on boss fights is another quick fix. We'll see.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Noob not understanding here.
OP seems to be suggesting that one can fire off twice as many skills merely due to weaving light attacks. Yes I weave but I do not see that I am doing twice as many skills in the same timeframe as a result of weaving.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »100% more damage? Yikes. You are assuming people use a light attack instead of an actual skill. I think it would be more accurate to assume people would either light attack weave or just use skills with no light attacks. If you are someone who is actually light attacking instead of using skills (as in the second equation), you would get way more damage by just leaving out light attacks altogether and just using skills. While light attacks comprise a large portion of damage for those who light attack weave (since you are doing one along with each skill), they are quite weak if you use them in place of a skill.
Actually with literally everyone in the world telling everyone they have to light attack in between each skill, everyone is at least trying to do it. But that actually makes it even worse because when you are doing LA too fast it doesn't even register and sometimes the skill doesn't register. I usually lose DPS when I play that way. I found with my playstyle on basically all builds, I am better off doing 3-4 skills with Heavy and repeat.
What you are pointing out is the reason WHY they need to fix this, it is creating more of a disparity that even my example shows by telling everyone to do this but it being so hard that only few people can or want to do it.
Please don't say literally when you mean figuratively. Plenty of people play this game without a LA weave. If you want min/maxed damage, then yes, you should weave EVERY skill. To be candid, it sounds like you need practice and your APMs are very low. You can complete all content save a few achievements with a heavy attack rotation as you described. Plenty of people do it.
But why should we balance a skill game with MANY levels of difficulty around the lowest common denominator? In my opinion, we should not.
Exactly. Light attacks account for...what...20% of damage give or take? And that’s with someone perfectly weaving. So if you just do a skill every second you should still be able to do adequate damage. Maybe as much as 70-80k on the 21m dummy. Ultimate regen might be an issue but sprinkle in some heavies.
Instead of guessing why don't you test it. How much damage would you do if you did your rotation without AC? I bet it will be more than 50% less.
Being you are making the claim please provide video evidence for the claim. Even though I am new to the game I tend to agree with the others here. Especially the ones providing actual information.
You cant ever cast skills faster than 1 per second. You can however always cast a skill and a light attack within a one second window. It does add damage, but certainly not double as suggested by OP.70K isnt terrible DPS however as the Oreyn stated, people are getting 100K+ by LA weaving.
Groups doing HMs want at least 80K DPS to join those runs.
Those people arent going to be happy with losing 30K+ DPS where they will actually have to do mechanics to complete their HM trials instead of just burning the boss down before most of the mechanics kick in.
I dont remember saying 70k was terrible. Also, very few people are doing 100k+ on live servers after the recent nerfs. Those that are, could probably hit 80k without any type of weaving. Its not the weave, its the rotation, and a weave is only a small part of that.
Its also not like there is some magic numbers where all mechanics simply vanish. Some are unavoidable, others become easier with more DPS, and there are some you can out right skip. Every fight is different. Plenty of great guilds that dont require 80k for you to set foot in a vet trial. My best guild doesnt require that much until you are working on some of the tougher Vet HMs. And the benchmark used is always a target dummy. Some fights, you can pull similar numbers to a dummy, others are going to be MUCH less.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on April 20, 2021 5:02AM2 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »The build/rotation I used was this one from Sparrow. The only change was that every rotation I replaced 1 Crystal frags cast with a Light attack.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4p1Bp_O5xo&t=1s
Thanks for the info I don't have any trial gear, but I get the idea. My sorc build is similar but using heavy attacks. I like mostly hybrid/solo builds that can kill world bosses. It would be interesting to see how much DPS a build like that can do with world bosses.
BTW I actually don't care what ZOS does with game. It's not my idea to 'lower the ceiling' it is what ZOS has stated many times, so people should get prepared for that. My only concern is that they stop making so many tweaks that negatively effect the vast majority of players, when that are some quick and easy fixes available.1 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Less than that, I wouldn't hit 100k with a static rotation like that. That was a brain dead rotation with zero practice to show you once again that your original premise was flawed. Animation Canceling does NOT double your DPS, which is the title of your thread. Your premise is fundamentally incorrect, and all your straw man arguments don't change that.
If anything it shows that you dont need to LA weave to clear content, but if you want to push the harder achievements/titles, you need some practice, and you need to do more in your rotation. Could you clear all Vet content like that? Probably. Could you get titles like Godslayer? No way. That is an amazingly healthy balance if you ask me. This isn't little league in the 21st century. You don't get everything just by showing up.
Also, that rotation was painfully boring. You could teach a Gibbon to do that rotation. It was only slightly difficult because I had to fight 7 years of instinct. Eliminating AC would remove any skill from the game, so as solutions go, its an absolutely terrible one. The end game community would do a mass exodus.
Thankfully, its all academic. AC ain't going anywhere. I see 3 options. Find a less skill based game, embrace the fact that you will never get some of the harder titles and keep enjoying this wonderful game, or you know, actually work at getting better. That last one is not for everyone.
The title is partially sarcastic, but I did go from 8K DPS to 16K when I started playing by doing LA weaving with AC about 30%. Then I tried a Heavy attack build that was much easier and consistently higher DPS.
But unsarcastically you have proven that
1. players don't need to do AC to get great DPS, literally the opposite of many who say fixing it would ruin game, so ZOS should consider that (IF reducing ceiling is a real goal)
2. instead of telling everyone at mid level the only way to get better is AC, you could share the great build and rotation that you say anyone can do
No lie, if there is an easier way for me to go from 30K to 70K DPS with different gear/rotation WITHOUT AC, I would be greatly appreciative and I think many others would too.
70k DPS is possible with simple heavy attack rotations. I even made one setup lately to prove few people It's fairly easy and on that setup my rotations was trap+blockade+3 heavy attacks. You can even get past 50k with just heavy attacks.
Here is a parse with rotation being basically blockade+trap+3heavy attacks repeated endlesly with occasional light attacks (38 within 5 minutes) and ulti drops
Edited by axi on April 20, 2021 10:35AM1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Look, I get that animation cancelling and weaving aren't going anywhere.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »2. Absolutely not. This would gut combat and LAs would become useless. Why would I ever light attack if I could cast a skill with the same opportunity cost. The answer is that you would not. The game would need completely rebalanced and would be a massive undertaking.
That is the beauty of combat in this game. There are many layers to a min/maxed damage rotation and it requires player skill, developed through practice, to juggle them all. Nothing requires you to attempt any of it other than Veteran HMs and Trifectas, or high end PVP. PVP without AC would be a nightmare. Your ability to react to your opponent would be all but eliminated.
But, I'm STILL galled by the fact that they didn't intend for it to be this way. And I'm DEEPLY repulsed by the idea that a fundamental mechanic (the standard Light Attack) is going to be completely invisible, for the most part.
If I were to watch a movie where the heroes raise their weapons to fire, then something blows up on the other end without them actually firing the weapon, I'd want my money back.
It's here. It's part of the zeitgeist. I get it.
But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to pretend it's polished, streamlined, and intentionally complex.
Not coming at you, though. You're awesome, and I get a lot out of reading your posts. I've even taken that advice into the game, with DANG good results. BEARHUGS!!!
4 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭[snip]
In fact, looks like ZOS is adding a set to help promote it.
Just accept that it's on the game. Either embrace it or let it go.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 20, 2021 11:28AM1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Look, I get that animation cancelling and weaving aren't going anywhere.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »2. Absolutely not. This would gut combat and LAs would become useless. Why would I ever light attack if I could cast a skill with the same opportunity cost. The answer is that you would not. The game would need completely rebalanced and would be a massive undertaking.
That is the beauty of combat in this game. There are many layers to a min/maxed damage rotation and it requires player skill, developed through practice, to juggle them all. Nothing requires you to attempt any of it other than Veteran HMs and Trifectas, or high end PVP. PVP without AC would be a nightmare. Your ability to react to your opponent would be all but eliminated.
But, I'm STILL galled by the fact that they didn't intend for it to be this way. And I'm DEEPLY repulsed by the idea that a fundamental mechanic (the standard Light Attack) is going to be completely invisible, for the most part.
If I were to watch a movie where the heroes raise their weapons to fire, then something blows up on the other end without them actually firing the weapon, I'd want my money back.
It's here. It's part of the zeitgeist. I get it.
But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to pretend it's polished, streamlined, and intentionally complex.
Not coming at you, though. You're awesome, and I get a lot out of reading your posts. I've even taken that advice into the game, with DANG good results. BEARHUGS!!!
First glad, you have found my many rantings over the years to be helpful. First and foremost, that is what I try to do on these forums. Admittedly, sometimes I break from that.
I will, however, push back just a bit. You actually do see the light attacks. When you watch a good weave with low ping, it actually looks very fluid to me. Certainly it gets choppy with higher ping, which I admit could be counter to immersion, but very little of the LA animation is clipped, and its really just the end of the follow through. On a staff you still see it go forward and shoot the elemental damage, on DW for example, you still see the weapon strike the target. If you use the movie example, well, you don't just attack and hold a pose, you move immediately into the next attack. This allows you to do that. You are a powerful being with unique abilities, but you also wield a basic weapon. LA weaving allows you to blend those two together, which is what I assume our heroes would attempt to do.
Ironically, the one type of AC useful to damage that really does clip the animation is swap canceling, and NOBODY talks about it. Probably because most people do this without realizing it. You cast an animation, and then you swap to a different bar. The game allows it because it makes combat feel more fluid. And similar to block, you need to be able to do it, especially in PVP to react to your opponent (certainly why it was coded with a higher priority). If you want to know what it would be like if you couldn't do this, play sorc with Hardcasting frags as a spammable, because it wont let you swap until the animation completely resolves. It is really clunky to play with and frankly feels awful to use.
In fact, the hardest part about doing the parse I showed was trying NOT to swap cancel. Similar to block canceling, people do it all the time and have no idea they are technically animation canceling.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on April 20, 2021 3:42PM6 -
Mr_Gallows✭✭✭My biggest issue with AC is how clunky and daft it looks. How it changes the pace of the game in a vwry bad way instead of a well designed way.2
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Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Look, I get that animation cancelling and weaving aren't going anywhere.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »2. Absolutely not. This would gut combat and LAs would become useless. Why would I ever light attack if I could cast a skill with the same opportunity cost. The answer is that you would not. The game would need completely rebalanced and would be a massive undertaking.
That is the beauty of combat in this game. There are many layers to a min/maxed damage rotation and it requires player skill, developed through practice, to juggle them all. Nothing requires you to attempt any of it other than Veteran HMs and Trifectas, or high end PVP. PVP without AC would be a nightmare. Your ability to react to your opponent would be all but eliminated.
But, I'm STILL galled by the fact that they didn't intend for it to be this way. And I'm DEEPLY repulsed by the idea that a fundamental mechanic (the standard Light Attack) is going to be completely invisible, for the most part.
If I were to watch a movie where the heroes raise their weapons to fire, then something blows up on the other end without them actually firing the weapon, I'd want my money back.
It's here. It's part of the zeitgeist. I get it.
But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to pretend it's polished, streamlined, and intentionally complex.
Not coming at you, though. You're awesome, and I get a lot out of reading your posts. I've even taken that advice into the game, with DANG good results. BEARHUGS!!!
First glad, you have found my many rantings over the years to be helpful. First and foremost, that is what I try to do on these forums. Admittedly, sometimes I break from that.
I will, however, push back just a bit. You actually do see the light attacks. When you watch a good weave with low ping, it actually looks very fluid to me. Certainly it gets choppy with higher ping, which I admit could be counter to immersion, but very little of the LA animation is clipped, and its really just the end of the follow through. On a staff you still see it go forward and shoot the elemental damage, on DW for example, you still see the weapon strike the target. If you use the movie example, well, you don't just attack and hold a pose, you move immediately into the next attack. This allows you to do that. You are a powerful being with unique abilities, but you also wield a basic weapon. LA weaving allows you to blend those two together, which is what I assume our heroes would attempt to do.
Ironically, the one type of AC useful to damage that really does clip the animation is swap canceling, and NOBODY talks about it. Probably because most people do this without realizing it. You cast an animation, and then you swap to a different bar. The game allows it because it makes combat feel more fluid. And similar to block, you need to be able to do it, especially in PVP to react to your opponent (certainly why it was coded with a higher priority). If you want to know what it would be like if you couldn't do this, play sorc with Hardcasting frags as a spammable, because it wont let you swap until the animation completely resolves. It is really clunky to play with and frankly feels awful to use.
In fact, the hardest part about doing the parse I showed was trying NOT to swap cancel. Similar to block canceling, people do it all the time and have no idea they are technically animation canceling.
Swap cancelled or not, GCD still applies. Not such a big deal with light attacks because the cooldown is shorter, but with skills if you happen to get ahead of yourself it won’t cast.
Nowhere is this lore prevalent than a Necro rotation casing BB every third skill where BB will be physically greyed out until it is available when you split your backbar in this manner. Now BB is 3 seconds but if you are doing your 2 LA-skill than swap cancel you’ll see it right away. A good Necro user trusts the skill to be up the second he/she hits the button/key, many Necro users will spam the hell out of BB until it casts.
The irony here is that what I just mentioned above is part of the skill gap of why some people can barely break 60k on a Necro and others can break 90k. One skill cast that many times perfectly over the rotation makes all the difference from mid to upper tier DPS.
Other skills/procs have a similar skill gap. And that’s the real difference between floor and ceiling.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Look, I get that animation cancelling and weaving aren't going anywhere.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »2. Absolutely not. This would gut combat and LAs would become useless. Why would I ever light attack if I could cast a skill with the same opportunity cost. The answer is that you would not. The game would need completely rebalanced and would be a massive undertaking.
That is the beauty of combat in this game. There are many layers to a min/maxed damage rotation and it requires player skill, developed through practice, to juggle them all. Nothing requires you to attempt any of it other than Veteran HMs and Trifectas, or high end PVP. PVP without AC would be a nightmare. Your ability to react to your opponent would be all but eliminated.
But, I'm STILL galled by the fact that they didn't intend for it to be this way. And I'm DEEPLY repulsed by the idea that a fundamental mechanic (the standard Light Attack) is going to be completely invisible, for the most part.
If I were to watch a movie where the heroes raise their weapons to fire, then something blows up on the other end without them actually firing the weapon, I'd want my money back.
It's here. It's part of the zeitgeist. I get it.
But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to pretend it's polished, streamlined, and intentionally complex.
Not coming at you, though. You're awesome, and I get a lot out of reading your posts. I've even taken that advice into the game, with DANG good results. BEARHUGS!!!
First glad, you have found my many rantings over the years to be helpful. First and foremost, that is what I try to do on these forums. Admittedly, sometimes I break from that.
I will, however, push back just a bit. You actually do see the light attacks. When you watch a good weave with low ping, it actually looks very fluid to me. Certainly it gets choppy with higher ping, which I admit could be counter to immersion, but very little of the LA animation is clipped, and its really just the end of the follow through. On a staff you still see it go forward and shoot the elemental damage, on DW for example, you still see the weapon strike the target. If you use the movie example, well, you don't just attack and hold a pose, you move immediately into the next attack. This allows you to do that. You are a powerful being with unique abilities, but you also wield a basic weapon. LA weaving allows you to blend those two together, which is what I assume our heroes would attempt to do.
Ironically, the one type of AC useful to damage that really does clip the animation is swap canceling, and NOBODY talks about it. Probably because most people do this without realizing it. You cast an animation, and then you swap to a different bar. The game allows it because it makes combat feel more fluid. And similar to block, you need to be able to do it, especially in PVP to react to your opponent (certainly why it was coded with a higher priority). If you want to know what it would be like if you couldn't do this, play sorc with Hardcasting frags as a spammable, because it wont let you swap until the animation completely resolves. It is really clunky to play with and frankly feels awful to use.
In fact, the hardest part about doing the parse I showed was trying NOT to swap cancel. Similar to block canceling, people do it all the time and have no idea they are technically animation canceling.
Swap cancelled or not, GCD still applies. Not such a big deal with light attacks because the cooldown is shorter, but with skills if you happen to get ahead of yourself it won’t cast.
Nowhere is this lore prevalent than a Necro rotation casing BB every third skill where BB will be physically greyed out until it is available when you split your backbar in this manner. Now BB is 3 seconds but if you are doing your 2 LA-skill than swap cancel you’ll see it right away. A good Necro user trusts the skill to be up the second he/she hits the button/key, many Necro users will spam the hell out of BB until it casts.
The irony here is that what I just mentioned above is part of the skill gap of why some people can barely break 60k on a Necro and others can break 90k. One skill cast that many times perfectly over the rotation makes all the difference from mid to upper tier DPS.
Other skills/procs have a similar skill gap. And that’s the real difference between floor and ceiling.
Of course the GCD still applies. But swap cancelling is what allows you to maintain your pace when you swap between bars i your rotation. If swapping was on the same GCD as skills, you would lose pace when you swapped. The bigger point is that 1, it chops the animation way more than a LA weave (some skills more than others) and 2 everyone does it too some degree without even realizing they are doing (of course like anything, it can be perfected). 3 almost nobody knows talks about it.
As to Necro, yes the skills can be buggy. That said, blastbones has a travel time. If you are in melee you can cast it every third skill, whether you need to swap between casts or not. If at range you cannot cast every third skill.
On a dummy, I never have issues with blastbones going off. In actual content, you have to be sure it actually goes off before you cast again anytime your don’t have your nose on the boss. Hardest part I think for Necros is being sure you have corpses up for some skills. Siphon is probably the skill I try to cast and have issues with the most.
Necro can be played with a very static rotation, but it does take a lot of bar swapping compared to other classes, which certainly causes some people issues. If you are having issues with BB firing on a target dummy, you are trying to go to fast or not casting 2 skills in between.
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Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Look, I get that animation cancelling and weaving aren't going anywhere.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »2. Absolutely not. This would gut combat and LAs would become useless. Why would I ever light attack if I could cast a skill with the same opportunity cost. The answer is that you would not. The game would need completely rebalanced and would be a massive undertaking.
That is the beauty of combat in this game. There are many layers to a min/maxed damage rotation and it requires player skill, developed through practice, to juggle them all. Nothing requires you to attempt any of it other than Veteran HMs and Trifectas, or high end PVP. PVP without AC would be a nightmare. Your ability to react to your opponent would be all but eliminated.
But, I'm STILL galled by the fact that they didn't intend for it to be this way. And I'm DEEPLY repulsed by the idea that a fundamental mechanic (the standard Light Attack) is going to be completely invisible, for the most part.
If I were to watch a movie where the heroes raise their weapons to fire, then something blows up on the other end without them actually firing the weapon, I'd want my money back.
It's here. It's part of the zeitgeist. I get it.
But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to pretend it's polished, streamlined, and intentionally complex.
Not coming at you, though. You're awesome, and I get a lot out of reading your posts. I've even taken that advice into the game, with DANG good results. BEARHUGS!!!
First glad, you have found my many rantings over the years to be helpful. First and foremost, that is what I try to do on these forums. Admittedly, sometimes I break from that.
I will, however, push back just a bit. You actually do see the light attacks. When you watch a good weave with low ping, it actually looks very fluid to me. Certainly it gets choppy with higher ping, which I admit could be counter to immersion, but very little of the LA animation is clipped, and its really just the end of the follow through. On a staff you still see it go forward and shoot the elemental damage, on DW for example, you still see the weapon strike the target. If you use the movie example, well, you don't just attack and hold a pose, you move immediately into the next attack. This allows you to do that. You are a powerful being with unique abilities, but you also wield a basic weapon. LA weaving allows you to blend those two together, which is what I assume our heroes would attempt to do.
Ironically, the one type of AC useful to damage that really does clip the animation is swap canceling, and NOBODY talks about it. Probably because most people do this without realizing it. You cast an animation, and then you swap to a different bar. The game allows it because it makes combat feel more fluid. And similar to block, you need to be able to do it, especially in PVP to react to your opponent (certainly why it was coded with a higher priority). If you want to know what it would be like if you couldn't do this, play sorc with Hardcasting frags as a spammable, because it wont let you swap until the animation completely resolves. It is really clunky to play with and frankly feels awful to use.
In fact, the hardest part about doing the parse I showed was trying NOT to swap cancel. Similar to block canceling, people do it all the time and have no idea they are technically animation canceling.
Swap cancelled or not, GCD still applies. Not such a big deal with light attacks because the cooldown is shorter, but with skills if you happen to get ahead of yourself it won’t cast.
Nowhere is this lore prevalent than a Necro rotation casing BB every third skill where BB will be physically greyed out until it is available when you split your backbar in this manner. Now BB is 3 seconds but if you are doing your 2 LA-skill than swap cancel you’ll see it right away. A good Necro user trusts the skill to be up the second he/she hits the button/key, many Necro users will spam the hell out of BB until it casts.
The irony here is that what I just mentioned above is part of the skill gap of why some people can barely break 60k on a Necro and others can break 90k. One skill cast that many times perfectly over the rotation makes all the difference from mid to upper tier DPS.
Other skills/procs have a similar skill gap. And that’s the real difference between floor and ceiling.
Of course the GCD still applies. But swap cancelling is what allows you to maintain your pace when you swap between bars i your rotation. If swapping was on the same GCD as skills, you would lose pace when you swapped. The bigger point is that 1, it chops the animation way more than a LA weave (some skills more than others) and 2 everyone does it too some degree without even realizing they are doing (of course like anything, it can be perfected). 3 almost nobody knows talks about it.
As to Necro, yes the skills can be buggy. That said, blastbones has a travel time. If you are in melee you can cast it every third skill, whether you need to swap between casts or not. If at range you cannot cast every third skill.
On a dummy, I never have issues with blastbones going off. In actual content, you have to be sure it actually goes off before you cast again anytime your don’t have your nose on the boss. Hardest part I think for Necros is being sure you have corpses up for some skills. Siphon is probably the skill I try to cast and have issues with the most.
Necro can be played with a very static rotation, but it does take a lot of bar swapping compared to other classes, which certainly causes some people issues. If you are having issues with BB firing on a target dummy, you are trying to go to fast or not casting 2 skills in between.
Yeah I know the feeling regarding Necro for sure for corpses and siphon. I had to slow up slightly (full disclosure I do parse with a metronome, was a music student in a former life.) Other classes I can play at 57bpm though I set it for 114 and alternate LA-skill on the beats and it works fine (console plus input lag, needs a different cadence between skills and hitting them evenly seems to make the difference. Necro on the other hand I am at 55 (set to 110) and that hits the sweet spot. That amounts to .91 LA ratio versus .95 ratio which for console is pretty good. Full static rotations because console is not user friendly either and it’s hard to read the buff/debuff timers plus some just don’t exists so you need a rotation you can trust.
Regarding AC I generally swap on certain skills. My MagDK swaps on whip and eruption, both my nightblades swap on trap/degen or shade/siphon, magplar on purifying light and trap/rune, Stamden on SA and poison injection. Necro swaps on everything 🤣. On stam toons with bows I also bash cancel endless hail. I like to bash weave engulfing flames on MagDK as well. I’m debating bash canceling swallow soul on Magblade, but at 4x per rotation it gets expensive fast, could just block cancel I suppose.
For sure AC is an acquired skill and a necessity to maintain rhythm. And the way I run my practice tempos that means the AC, pots and synergies fall between the beats. For the musician in me that’s simple subdivision.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭this is extremely Unfair to us in both pvp and pve, that if we dont animation cancel, then we do 100% less damage.
in pvp we die extremely fast and in pve we are kicked out for doing less damage.
it just isnt fair.
i hate animation canceling and im among many.
animation canceling is simply a glitch and an exploit.
4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Noob not understanding here.
OP seems to be suggesting that one can fire off twice as many skills merely due to weaving light attacks. Yes I weave but I do not see that I am doing twice as many skills in the same timeframe as a result of weaving.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »100% more damage? Yikes. You are assuming people use a light attack instead of an actual skill. I think it would be more accurate to assume people would either light attack weave or just use skills with no light attacks. If you are someone who is actually light attacking instead of using skills (as in the second equation), you would get way more damage by just leaving out light attacks altogether and just using skills. While light attacks comprise a large portion of damage for those who light attack weave (since you are doing one along with each skill), they are quite weak if you use them in place of a skill.
Actually with literally everyone in the world telling everyone they have to light attack in between each skill, everyone is at least trying to do it. But that actually makes it even worse because when you are doing LA too fast it doesn't even register and sometimes the skill doesn't register. I usually lose DPS when I play that way. I found with my playstyle on basically all builds, I am better off doing 3-4 skills with Heavy and repeat.
What you are pointing out is the reason WHY they need to fix this, it is creating more of a disparity that even my example shows by telling everyone to do this but it being so hard that only few people can or want to do it.
Please don't say literally when you mean figuratively. Plenty of people play this game without a LA weave. If you want min/maxed damage, then yes, you should weave EVERY skill. To be candid, it sounds like you need practice and your APMs are very low. You can complete all content save a few achievements with a heavy attack rotation as you described. Plenty of people do it.
But why should we balance a skill game with MANY levels of difficulty around the lowest common denominator? In my opinion, we should not.
Exactly. Light attacks account for...what...20% of damage give or take? And that’s with someone perfectly weaving. So if you just do a skill every second you should still be able to do adequate damage. Maybe as much as 70-80k on the 21m dummy. Ultimate regen might be an issue but sprinkle in some heavies.
Instead of guessing why don't you test it. How much damage would you do if you did your rotation without AC? I bet it will be more than 50% less.
Being you are making the claim please provide video evidence for the claim. Even though I am new to the game I tend to agree with the others here. Especially the ones providing actual information.
You cant ever cast skills faster than 1 per second. You can however always cast a skill and a light attack within a one second window. It does add damage, but certainly not double as suggested by OP.
That is basically what I thought from reading the explanation on the alcast site but this thread seems to be created to suggest otherwise.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭this is extremely Unfair to us in both pvp and pve, that if we dont animation cancel, then we do 100% less damage.
in pvp we die extremely fast and in pve we are kicked out for doing less damage.
it just isnt fair.
i hate animation canceling and im among many.
animation canceling is simply a glitch and an exploit.
While I am new I do not think the information presented here is accurate. It does not seem to double one's damage. I have looked at parses at ESO Logs and have seen light attacks accounting for 18% or less. Also,m as a new player I have figured out how to weave though I probably do medium attacks and light attacks.
Also, I have seen the game mention weaving light attacks so it seems to be legitimate, not an exploit. I think you will be ok.2 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭this is extremely Unfair to us in both pvp and pve, that if we dont animation cancel, then we do 100% less damage.
in pvp we die extremely fast and in pve we are kicked out for doing less damage.
it just isnt fair.
i hate animation canceling and im among many.
animation canceling is simply a glitch and an exploit.
Go ahead and let all of you animations play out and jump into some of these hard mode dungeons and trials. When you need a shield or a self heal because of a mechanic that AC cancel on a bar swap can be the difference between life and death, quite literally.
Some skills you can’t even swap cancel. Try being in the middle of casting channeled accel during kite phase of vAS+1 or +2 and having the cone mech also hit you. You are basically dead, no coming back from that. To that same effect regarding that particular mech. Say you were casting a skill with instant cast time but a long animation and the same thing happens. If you don’t ani cancel with a barswap and cast your shield you are dead, no two ways about it.
Animation canceling, not just a DPS skill.3 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Thanks you for everyone who has been participating in this thread. I have never done a deep dive into trial dummy settings, results etc. But I have many questions about that. But it looks like with this build we see:
1. LA/AC represents about 30K/30% of DPS
2. From the 100K parse even though LA is the #1 single source of DPS it is only 15K, the extra 15K is not so clear but it appears to be the fact that the aoes can run for longer and therefore get higher DPS (possibly being late on Atronach too, maybe a few less crits)
Probably something ZOS can take a closer look into. BTW does anyone have combat metrics with these builds doing actual content. I tried the same setup out on the PTS server and it is missing some critical skills for healing, shielding and/or buffing, at least for doing almost anything solo.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Noob not understanding here.
OP seems to be suggesting that one can fire off twice as many skills merely due to weaving light attacks. Yes I weave but I do not see that I am doing twice as many skills in the same timeframe as a result of weaving.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »100% more damage? Yikes. You are assuming people use a light attack instead of an actual skill. I think it would be more accurate to assume people would either light attack weave or just use skills with no light attacks. If you are someone who is actually light attacking instead of using skills (as in the second equation), you would get way more damage by just leaving out light attacks altogether and just using skills. While light attacks comprise a large portion of damage for those who light attack weave (since you are doing one along with each skill), they are quite weak if you use them in place of a skill.
Actually with literally everyone in the world telling everyone they have to light attack in between each skill, everyone is at least trying to do it. But that actually makes it even worse because when you are doing LA too fast it doesn't even register and sometimes the skill doesn't register. I usually lose DPS when I play that way. I found with my playstyle on basically all builds, I am better off doing 3-4 skills with Heavy and repeat.
What you are pointing out is the reason WHY they need to fix this, it is creating more of a disparity that even my example shows by telling everyone to do this but it being so hard that only few people can or want to do it.
Please don't say literally when you mean figuratively. Plenty of people play this game without a LA weave. If you want min/maxed damage, then yes, you should weave EVERY skill. To be candid, it sounds like you need practice and your APMs are very low. You can complete all content save a few achievements with a heavy attack rotation as you described. Plenty of people do it.
But why should we balance a skill game with MANY levels of difficulty around the lowest common denominator? In my opinion, we should not.
Exactly. Light attacks account for...what...20% of damage give or take? And that’s with someone perfectly weaving. So if you just do a skill every second you should still be able to do adequate damage. Maybe as much as 70-80k on the 21m dummy. Ultimate regen might be an issue but sprinkle in some heavies.
Instead of guessing why don't you test it. How much damage would you do if you did your rotation without AC? I bet it will be more than 50% less.
Being you are making the claim please provide video evidence for the claim. Even though I am new to the game I tend to agree with the others here. Especially the ones providing actual information.
You cant ever cast skills faster than 1 per second. You can however always cast a skill and a light attack within a one second window. It does add damage, but certainly not double as suggested by OP.
That is basically what I thought from reading the explanation on the alcast site but this thread seems to be created to suggest otherwise.
As we have proven at the high end LA/AC represents about 30K or 30% of added damage but keep in mind the LA itself is only 15K of that so that means there are other benefits of LA/AC that you also gain by doing it.
The point of this thread was to point out you get huge benefit from doing LA/AC correctly.
But also that if you are just LA attacking in between each skill but NOT LA/AC you are actually LOSING a lot of DPS. And having a good rotation without even trying to LA/AC might be best for certain people (which is what NO ONE will tell you).
BTW I was only discussing LA/AC not other types of AC, but block, bar swap, roll etc AC are necessary to keep you alive in some cases but can also be used as exploits.Edited by Merforum on April 21, 2021 6:25PM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks you for everyone who has been participating in this thread. I have never done a deep dive into trial dummy settings, results etc. But I have many questions about that. But it looks like with this build we see:
1. LA/AC represents about 30K/30% of DPS
2. From the 100K parse even though LA is the #1 single source of DPS it is only 15K, the extra 15K is not so clear but it appears to be the fact that the aoes can run for longer and therefore get higher DPS (possibly being late on Atronach too, maybe a few less crits)
Probably something ZOS can take a closer look into. BTW does anyone have combat metrics with these builds doing actual content. I tried the same setup out on the PTS server and it is missing some critical skills for healing, shielding and/or buffing, at least for doing almost anything solo.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Noob not understanding here.
OP seems to be suggesting that one can fire off twice as many skills merely due to weaving light attacks. Yes I weave but I do not see that I am doing twice as many skills in the same timeframe as a result of weaving.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »100% more damage? Yikes. You are assuming people use a light attack instead of an actual skill. I think it would be more accurate to assume people would either light attack weave or just use skills with no light attacks. If you are someone who is actually light attacking instead of using skills (as in the second equation), you would get way more damage by just leaving out light attacks altogether and just using skills. While light attacks comprise a large portion of damage for those who light attack weave (since you are doing one along with each skill), they are quite weak if you use them in place of a skill.
Actually with literally everyone in the world telling everyone they have to light attack in between each skill, everyone is at least trying to do it. But that actually makes it even worse because when you are doing LA too fast it doesn't even register and sometimes the skill doesn't register. I usually lose DPS when I play that way. I found with my playstyle on basically all builds, I am better off doing 3-4 skills with Heavy and repeat.
What you are pointing out is the reason WHY they need to fix this, it is creating more of a disparity that even my example shows by telling everyone to do this but it being so hard that only few people can or want to do it.
Please don't say literally when you mean figuratively. Plenty of people play this game without a LA weave. If you want min/maxed damage, then yes, you should weave EVERY skill. To be candid, it sounds like you need practice and your APMs are very low. You can complete all content save a few achievements with a heavy attack rotation as you described. Plenty of people do it.
But why should we balance a skill game with MANY levels of difficulty around the lowest common denominator? In my opinion, we should not.
Exactly. Light attacks account for...what...20% of damage give or take? And that’s with someone perfectly weaving. So if you just do a skill every second you should still be able to do adequate damage. Maybe as much as 70-80k on the 21m dummy. Ultimate regen might be an issue but sprinkle in some heavies.
Instead of guessing why don't you test it. How much damage would you do if you did your rotation without AC? I bet it will be more than 50% less.
Being you are making the claim please provide video evidence for the claim. Even though I am new to the game I tend to agree with the others here. Especially the ones providing actual information.
You cant ever cast skills faster than 1 per second. You can however always cast a skill and a light attack within a one second window. It does add damage, but certainly not double as suggested by OP.
That is basically what I thought from reading the explanation on the alcast site but this thread seems to be created to suggest otherwise.
Thanks for everyone who participated in this thread. As we have proven at the high end LA/AC represents about 30K or 30% of added damage but keep in mind the LA itself is only 15K of that so that means there are other benefits of LA/AC that you also gain by doing it.
The point of this thread was to point out you get huge benefit from doing LA/AC correctly.
But also that if you are just LA attacking in between each skill but NOT LA/AC you are actually LOSING a lot of DPS. And having a good rotation without even trying to LA/AC might be best for certain people (which is what NO ONE will tell you).
BTW I was only discussing LA/AC not other types of AC, but block, bar swap, roll etc AC are necessary to keep you alive in some cases but can also be used as exploits.
We demonstrated one thing. We demonstrated that a player that takes the time to learn how to deliver a rotation properly will do better with or without LAs than a player who does not. This also means the ability to weave LAs is not problematic.
You can look at ESO logs for actual parses from game content. It seems 30k and 30% are not accurate for doing actual content based on what I viewed from the Sunspire raid. What I viewed from top groups showed LAs accounting for about 18% of a player's parse when they had a solid rotation. As their total damage decreased from the top parses in the group so did the % damage from LAs.
As such it would seem that there is not a problem with LAs. It seems players need to work in delivering skills in a more optimal manner. As they improve they will also improve in weaving LAs.
Practice makes perfect. As a new player I realize I have some work to put into this.
Still wondering how it was determined that someone can deliver skills twice as fast with weaving LAs than without since the GCD will not permit that by any means.Edited by Amottica on April 21, 2021 6:42PM3 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭this is extremely Unfair to us in both pvp and pve, that if we dont animation cancel, then we do 100% less damage.
in pvp we die extremely fast and in pve we are kicked out for doing less damage.
it just isnt fair.
i hate animation canceling and im among many.
animation canceling is simply a glitch and an exploit.
100% less damage is zero damage.
Doing 100% more damage by doing it means you’d do 50% less damage when not doing it.
But regardless the entire statement is bunk, and has been shown to be false in this very thread.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest3 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Since it has been conclusively proven that
1. light attack animation canceling substantially increases DPS
2. people can get great DPS without doing it
3. it represent most of the discrepancy between mid and higher level DPS
4. with high ping rate it is unattainable to many
Zos could look at fixing this if 'lowering the ceiling' is a true goal.
BTW just tested on PTS with 50 ping (never spiked to 999+ once OMG), and I can actually do LA/AC much easier, I would almost say if they could fix their live server so most people had less than 100-200ms ping, it would be make this issue less extreme1 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since it has been conclusively proven that
1. light attack animation canceling substantially increases DPS
2. people can get great DPS without doing it
3. it represent most of the discrepancy between mid and higher level DPS
4. with high ping rate it is unattainable to many
Zos could look at fixing this if 'lowering the ceiling' is a true goal.
BTW just tested on PTS with 50 ping (never spiked to 999+ once OMG), and I can actually do LA/AC much easier, I would almost say if they could fix their live server so most people had less than 100-200ms ping, it would be make this issue less extreme
Neither 3 nor 4 have been shown. I would argue both are false.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Weather ZOS admits it or not; LA weaving is intended at this point. A few sets would be rendered usless.
LA sharing the same GCD as skills would also make light attacks usless in general. No one would ever use them again.
They admit it, even have something on one of the Splash Screens about it. They even talk about how to optimize the operation of it behind the scenes. I sat in one of the meetings where the developers talked about it.
People think that Animation Canceling is a mistake because it was not designed in at early alpha. That is not simply not true. Just like Vulcanized Rubber or Post It Notes or Rogaine, it was something that was discovered along the way during early development. They could have replaced it with Global Cooldowns, but combat is more fluid without those.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"4 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »Since it has been conclusively proven that
1. light attack animation canceling substantially increases DPS
2. people can get great DPS without doing it
3. it represent most of the discrepancy between mid and higher level DPS
4. with high ping rate it is unattainable to many
Zos could look at fixing this if 'lowering the ceiling' is a true goal.
BTW just tested on PTS with 50 ping (never spiked to 999+ once OMG), and I can actually do LA/AC much easier, I would almost say if they could fix their live server so most people had less than 100-200ms ping, it would be make this issue less extreme
Neither 3 nor 4 have been shown. I would argue both are false.
Notice in #3 I say MOST not all of discrepancy. So YES, these findings are absolutely undeniable.
BTW After trying the PTS server with super low ping rate which I never came close to experiencing on live, I can actually see myself doing LA/AC properly. It is so dramatic that I may even change my view and start advocating people to do LA/AC but with the caveat that if they tried and had a hard time on live, load PTS to practice it.
I did some dungeons on PTS yesterday (to see how badly my hybrid tank is NERFed which it is) but to my astonishment, I was actually able to do LA/AC. I don't think anyone realizes how actually being able to SEE the AC happen let's you know you are doing it right. Also I went back on live to test exact same build/dungeon and found that (yes they NERF TF out of my proc sets for all hybrid builds some by 50%) but just the LA/AC practice on PTS let me do it on live, because I had the rhythm of it without needing the visual cue.
As always I am only here to try to help people and not win any arguments which seems like the norm. So hopefully someone finds this useful info.0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
No I play only in NA and can say without any question PTS is much better for me than NA. PTS might be in US, so might be why EU server is better for you than PTS. But that does make some sense. For me on PTS it's so dramatically better I would say ZOS should really examine their networking and servers for NA live and especially not ignore the spikes, if you've seen 999+ you know what I am talking about.0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭BejaProphet wrote: »Since it has been conclusively proven that
1. light attack animation canceling substantially increases DPS
2. people can get great DPS without doing it
3. it represent most of the discrepancy between mid and higher level DPS
4. with high ping rate it is unattainable to many
Zos could look at fixing this if 'lowering the ceiling' is a true goal.
BTW just tested on PTS with 50 ping (never spiked to 999+ once OMG), and I can actually do LA/AC much easier, I would almost say if they could fix their live server so most people had less than 100-200ms ping, it would be make this issue less extreme
Neither 3 nor 4 have been shown. I would argue both are false.
Notice in #3 I say MOST not all of discrepancy. So YES, these findings are absolutely undeniable. .
I deny them. So you are wrong about them being undeniable also.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
caesarvs✭✭✭✭Every discussion regarding DPS (damage per second) and how to get it as high as possible inevitably end up talking about Light Attack Weaving but not much is said about WHY it offers such insanely high damage. So let's see why that is. If X represents light attack damage and Y represents 'average skill' damage, if you do a perfect Anim Cancel for 10 seconds it looks like this,
X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y + X+Y = 10X + 10Y
LA Weave without Anim Cancel looks like this
X + Y + X + Y + X + Y + X + Y + X + Y = 5X + 5Y
It becomes very apparent that a perfect LA weave does 100% more damage than a LA weave without animation canceling because by doing AC you get TWO actions/second while not doing it you only get ONE action/sec. And if most of your skills are DOTs/AOEs it is even more than 100% because they are UP longer and triggered sooner.
Now in real life most 'elite' players get only 90% AC so let's call it 9X+10Y, and most people who try AC but don't succeed get maybe 10% so 6X+5Y, but you can see no matter what you do to change the X LA damage or Y skill damage there will still be a huge difference, if we plug in X=1K, Y=2K, we get elite 29K, normal 16K. IRL the numbers have much more disparity that this so this is probably just one issue.
There is actually 2 ways to fix this if you are really concerned about (raising the floor/lowering the ceiling) or balancing.
1. Make it much easier to animation cancel by buffering button pushes so if someone pushes LA, then a skill within 1 second it will register more often. Instead of the way it is now where even the best of the best can only do it 90% of the time and that is on a dummy, in real content I bet they don't get that much. If it was easy enough so literally everyone could do it 75% of time and elite 100% that would really help.
2. Make LA use same GCD as everything else, ie don't allow 2 actions per second only 1 action. Still allow block, roll, bash etc to cancel animation but it should cancel the ACTION also not just the Animation, that way people won't feel the need to use this as a combat tactic.
Personally I prefer the second option because with all the lag and disparity of ping/FPS on systems, some people having high end rigs, video, KBM, etc, more than one action per second seems to be literally too fast for ESO system to handle and probably causing some of the lag. Action would still be super fast just not too fast for the servers and everyone playing to react to. Sorry this is a whole separate problem but related to why some people no matter how hard they try can't do AC very well.
While I think weaving is fine, animation cancelling I find it rather stupid. From a "immersion/realism" perspective(dunno what would be the right word), I just can't deal with the idea of damaging enemies without seeing the damage action itself happening (e.g. you dont see the animation of the light attack, but it still does damage).
Sadly, if you want to be "accepted" as a DPS in endgame, most guilds wants you to push much more higher numbers than the needed for complete the content (you know, with the "skip mechs" mentality and all that). Sure, you can make your own guild with lower requirements, but thats not the point here.
So, OP: if you have difficulties with weaving, I'll link you a "solution" that some (many? who knows) players used/uses:
https://github.com/256shadesofgrey/eso-light-attack-weave
Just search for this link here on forum and you'll see understand what it does...1
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