Content Creators Initial Response to Proc set Scaling

xylena_lazarow · April 2021

regime211 wrote: »

This is a great change and I hope they keep it this way!

This is a great change for tryhard minmax 1vXers and ball groups, and a horrible change for casual PvPers. It's tempting to unretire my stamblade and enjoy Gaze of Sithis one shot face tank god mode, but that would require spending cash...

GreenHere · April 2021

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Not a stupid question at all @Wolf_Eye , and your best guess pretty much nailed it!

It's just that we're talking about the potentially-coming-to-the-game changes which are currently on the PTS. This crazy stuff is still only on the Test Servers... for now.

MrZeDark · April 2021

One of my issues with the content creators is that in a similar duel situation - without proc - but with 84% crit + 151% crit dmg. I can kill a player by BB, Graveyard Synergy, Light attack.

So from what I've seen, it actually just brings people who enjoy proc - up to where stacking Crit+Crit DMG is. Which is what we should see. It's balance when King Crit and King Proc are doing the same amount of damage, and can bust someone down in 3 seconds despite build.

**That is to say, as long as Crit Meta and Proc meta deal relatively equal dmg - then bring it on. That is amazing balance.. the only miss now is dmg modifier builds to bring it inline with the other 2.

Lughlongarm · April 2021

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

ealdwin · April 2021

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Wolf_Eye · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Not a stupid question at all @Wolf_Eye , and your best guess pretty much nailed it!

It's just that we're talking about the potentially-coming-to-the-game changes which are currently on the PTS. This crazy stuff is still only on the Test Servers... for now.

Ah thank you so much for taking the time to explain!

And oof. A 13K weapon glyph...ugh.

Ocelot9x · April 2021

ealdwin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Nope, it's glyph of frost on a magwarden. Torug+heartland=10k glyph
Buffed by warden %damage + minor berserk+4% for having 2 animal companion skill slotted.
Can get to 15k with malacath but the point was making a meta build, not inflating the tooltip.

Tested on pts, it's absolutely disgusting.

Edit: did the build on uesp so you can see, i don't know how you didn't get the right tooltip

ealdwin · April 2021

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Nope, it's glyph of frost on a magwarden. Torug+heartland=10k glyph
Buffed by warden %damage + minor berserk+4% for having 2 animal companion skill slotted.
Can get to 15k with malacath but the point was making a meta build, not inflating the tooltip.

Tested on pts, it's absolutely disgusting.

Edit: did the build on uesp so you can see, i don't know how you didn't get the right tooltip

Well ****

(Hadn't gotten around to running any tests on Warden yet—was mainly testing on my Magplar main/running through Blackwood quests to try and catch any bugs/issues—, so that's probably why I haven't seen those numbers.)

Lughlongarm · April 2021

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Nope, it's glyph of frost on a magwarden. Torug+heartland=10k glyph
Buffed by warden %damage + minor berserk+4% for having 2 animal companion skill slotted.
Can get to 15k with malacath but the point was making a meta build, not inflating the tooltip.

Tested on pts, it's absolutely disgusting.

Edit: did the build on uesp so you can see, i don't know how you didn't get the right tooltip

I' don't think you have tested it on PTS.

I tested myself - Warden - Conquerer + Torugs + Infused, fire staff, + minor berserk+ 3 animal companion skills+ Master at arms+ deadly aim - Will result in just above 8k tooltip. Tooltip is 7,700 but it is bugged. I checked the damage on PVE mbos.

I can think of endless builds better than this one.

Clone4423 · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Battle Spirit: "Proc Damage reduced by 50%"

THIS!

Ocelot9x · April 2021

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Nope, it's glyph of frost on a magwarden. Torug+heartland=10k glyph
Buffed by warden %damage + minor berserk+4% for having 2 animal companion skill slotted.
Can get to 15k with malacath but the point was making a meta build, not inflating the tooltip.

Tested on pts, it's absolutely disgusting.

Edit: did the build on uesp so you can see, i don't know how you didn't get the right tooltip

I' don't think you have tested it on PTS.

I tested myself - Warden - Conquerer + Torugs + Infused, fire staff, + minor berserk+ 3 animal companion skills+ Master at arms+ deadly aim - Will result in just above 8k tooltip. Tooltip is 7,700 but it is bugged. I checked the damage on PVE mbos.

I can think of endless builds better than this one.

I will check on pts again on Sunday, but the setup was really busted in a duel scenario. I get 6.5k glyph on live so you probably did something wrong my friend

FrankonPC · April 2021

TequilaFire wrote: »

I find it interesting that those who can reach high damage numbers are the ones that call for the cap to be raised.
So that would mean once again you would be making elites more powerful and middle tier players less powerful.
Middle and low tier players can't reach those damage numbers.

If this were true, the current system benefits elite players even more than lower players because, as you said, middle and low tier players cannot reach the numbers they're hitting. Since there is no cap on proc sets currently, the higher number "elite" players can get that low tier players cannot will give them up to 50% more dmg with the same proc set.

FrankonPC · April 2021

Sheuib wrote: »

I think everyone is missing the flaws in these builds. Sure you can get crazy tooltip numbers if you put everything into one stat but one stat does not make a pvp build.

These builds have 700 penetration. Yes 700. Most players are running around with at least 25k resistances. You get a 50% reduction from battle spirit. Probably another 40% reduction from armor. Then the small amounts of reduction from other means like minor protection, etc.

On top of the reduction you also have to consider the fast pace movement of pvp. You hardly see anyone use selene because you can't hit anyone with it. No one stands there to be hit. You might occasionally get lucky with a CC on someone that is out of stamina and can't break. Or, players that are new and just don't know what is coming.

All I am saying is these guys took the builds to extremes that are not really playable. Don't go screaming for changes that are based on unrealistic builds.

This is a good argument. I did not do this in my video though. I made slight adjustments to a build that was already on my channel to show what the scaling would be if this goes live.

Revokus · April 2021

Can't wait for New World coming soon . They are patching the game like crazy. Time for a change me thinks ! PvP is so neglected in this game. PvPers deserve better.

Lughlongarm · April 2021

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

And you guys haven't see the torug/heartland build:
40k hp
35k res
4300 spell damage
1500 base recovery
Aaaaand 13k tooltip weapon glyph LOL

This is probably a really stupid question, and I apologize ahead of time.

But what is a tooltip and how do I see it?

My best guess is that a tooltip is the little description that items have on them when you hover over them.

But if so, then I have never seen a weapon glyph that said it was worth 13K, so I must surely be misunderstanding something here.

Probably referring to, Glyph of Prismatic Onslaught tooltip if you go torug+heartland+ infused trait.
The other stats are just inflated by Gaze of Sithis.

Just a weak build that can OK vs vamps, with one broken item that is going to get nerfed. I'm not impressed.

That's the only weapon glyph I've been able to get to those levels on UESP Build Editor. Besides niche vampire slaying or grinding tel-var in the sewers, can't come up with much use for said build.

I believe other threads have pointed out better uses for Heartland Conquerer than with Torugs + Infused. Or at least better traits.

Nope, it's glyph of frost on a magwarden. Torug+heartland=10k glyph
Buffed by warden %damage + minor berserk+4% for having 2 animal companion skill slotted.
Can get to 15k with malacath but the point was making a meta build, not inflating the tooltip.

Tested on pts, it's absolutely disgusting.

Edit: did the build on uesp so you can see, i don't know how you didn't get the right tooltip

I' don't think you have tested it on PTS.

I tested myself - Warden - Conquerer + Torugs + Infused, fire staff, + minor berserk+ 3 animal companion skills+ Master at arms+ deadly aim - Will result in just above 8k tooltip. Tooltip is 7,700 but it is bugged. I checked the damage on PVE mbos.

I can think of endless builds better than this one.

I will check on pts again on Sunday, but the setup was really busted in a duel scenario. I get 6.5k glyph on live so you probably did something wrong my friend

Why do you think so? 6.5k on live with Torugs + Infused sounds about right... Why do you think Conquerer will take it to 13k? You only add 30% from base value. You just confirmed that my data is right. You will have around 8k glyph with the addition of Conquerer+ the new CP(master at arms).

relentless_turnip · April 2021

https://youtu.be/bWto5O50Fe8

Another pretty accurate assessment of the state of things in the PTS

mikey_reach · April 2021

Why are people saying battle spirit 50%. Dont they already get their damage reduced by 50% through battle spirit

NeillMcAttack · April 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

One of my issues with the content creators is that in a similar duel situation - without proc - but with 84% crit + 151% crit dmg. I can kill a player by BB, Graveyard Synergy, Light attack.

So from what I've seen, it actually just brings people who enjoy proc - up to where stacking Crit+Crit DMG is. Which is what we should see. It's balance when King Crit and King Proc are doing the same amount of damage, and can bust someone down in 3 seconds despite build.

**That is to say, as long as Crit Meta and Proc meta deal relatively equal dmg - then bring it on. That is amazing balance.. the only miss now is dmg modifier builds to bring it inline with the other 2.

You are close but not quite there. Firstly, let’s say you have achieved those crit numbers. Think about what you are trading! Your crit scales with your base damage, your base damage scales with both you W/D AND you max resource. If you have only 15k stam, you may be able to crit, but the crit would still be less than a build with 35k stam.

In your build you need high max stat, high weapon damage, high crit damage and crit chance. To achieve that, you are in medium armor, with 25k health, and have traded many other stats for your crit chance and damage. A proc user, only needs one thing from the equation, high WD! So then, they can put all other points into health, crit resistance, recovery, penetration, whatever. Then you end up in a meta where only one of these set-ups thrive. And I guarantee it won’t be the squishy crit damage set up.

And that is all before we consider that procs aren’t tied to the 1 second GCD that abilities are. Proc users can still cast abilities the same as you. But they also get free procs that are like OP abilities.

So you see, until the procs scale the same as the entire equation of abilities, one will always become meta, and build diversity will be next to non-existent.

red_emu · April 2021

I have a sneaky suspicion that this is their response to lag. Currently the best way to win a battle is to completely outnumber your enemy but the longer the battle lasts (ie more defenders show up) the worse the lag gets, servers trying to calculate thousands and thousands of things in a small area.

If you can literally blow up every one on the battle field using one light attack, the fight is over in a few minutes and players disperse again, freeing up the servers again.

xylena_lazarow · April 2021

FrankonPC wrote: »

If this were true, the current system benefits elite players even more than lower players because, as you said, middle and low tier players cannot reach the numbers they're hitting. Since there is no cap on proc sets currently, the higher number "elite" players can get that low tier players cannot will give them up to 50% more dmg with the same proc set.

This is exactly true. This will be the worst patch ever for casual PvP, and competitive players wanting balanced fights against other competitive players will leave. Only the tryhard pug stomper 1vXers and ball groups will stick around, making casuals miserable, while avoiding ever fighting the other tryhards on broken builds.

Joy_Division · April 2021

mikey_reach wrote: »

Why are people saying battle spirit 50%. Dont they already get their damage reduced by 50% through battle spirit

Yes they do. It's not enough.

relentless_turnip · April 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Why are people saying battle spirit 50%. Dont they already get their damage reduced by 50% through battle spirit

Yes they do. It's not enough.

😂👍 Certainly not enough for proc sets...

Lapin_Logic · April 2021

Sleep724 wrote: »

The Proc Set Meta to rule them all.

Every time ZoS says "We will Fix/end the Tank Meta"... They just change HOW people are using the Tank Meta, Crimson, Oblivion, Sloads for a hot minute..

It reminds me of the Simpsons when Bart uses his 'Imagination' and can only think of Skinner saying "Ok students, Instead of going to the box factory today, we will be going to ...... the Box Factory"