Cyrodiil will continue to be limited to 19 sets until Q3 of 2021. Are you in favor?

Seraphayel · March 2021

Just enable one proc set at the same time in PvP. So players can’t mix two or three at the same time. I think individual build variety will increase because there are a lot of very good proc sets. This will enforce variety in my opinion while fixing the biggest problem with the abuse of multiple proc sets.

virtus753 · March 2021

majulook wrote: »

These "Proc Sets" negatively impact only the Cyrodiil PVP server performance?
They do not affect the IC PVP server performance? Or the PVE zone Server performance?
If that's the case then maybe the size of Cyrodiil Map along with all the calculations that are being preformed.

Are the NPC using any of the "banned" sets?

Well no matter whats the cause, it looks really bad for PVP.

No one at ZOS said the proc sets impact performance. In fact, if you read the comment linked in the OP, you will see they found no appreciable performance gain from disabling proc sets.

This is a behavior-based decision, not a performance-based one.

Goregrinder · March 2021

Even though I'm a fan of diversity, if you're asking if I would pick a world of no free ZOS-damage over a world with free ZOS-damage then the answer is yes, out of those two options I'd pick the version of Cyrodiil that requires all of your damage to be manually input by the players.

I would prefer complete build diversity, however ZOS has no direct counters to proc damage or proc healing (ZOS damage/healing) so until they implement a direct counter, I would certainly be in favor of leaving those sets out of PVP until a direct counter is introduced that other players can run.

J18696 · March 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

These "Proc Sets" negatively impact only the Cyrodiil PVP server performance?
They do not affect the IC PVP server performance? Or the PVE zone Server performance?
If that's the case then maybe the size of Cyrodiil Map along with all the calculations that are being preformed.

Are the NPC using any of the "banned" sets?

Well no matter whats the cause, it looks really bad for PVP.

No one at ZOS said the proc sets impact performance. In fact, if you read the comment linked in the OP, you will see they found no appreciable performance gain from disabling proc sets.

This is a behavior-based decision, not a performance-based one.

Would it even make sense to keep this behaviour based change if it results in worse performance as a side effect like we have witnessed for the past 3 weeks

Jaraal · March 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is a behavior-based decision, not a performance-based one.

Actually, it's not even that. It's a forum opinion based decision.

erio · March 2021

They got their performance results now, they should enable more than 15 sets. Not all "procs" are bad. The new cp system about build diversity is ruined by being limited to 15 sets.

furiouslog · March 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is an absolutely disastrous decision given the far too expansive definition of "proc set" that ZOS is using.

Being restricted to ~10 sets in the entire game annihilates any semblance of theorycrafting and legitimately has me reconsidering whether or not I want to continue playing the game.

This is devastating for any form of organized group play.

I saw a lot of ball groups over the past weeks being amazingly effective at using what they still had left. It was just occasionally possible to kill them. I actually like the reduction in sets. It's evened the playing field a little, but good players are still good and will kill people who are not as good. Organized groups will still wipe disorganized ones. It's a purer and more level PVP combat experience, because success relies more on coordination and skill than using the sets to design the perfect 12-person unstoppable force.

For proc cheesers, you still have IC and BGs to theorycraft. There are plenty of WW packs running Alessian/Crimson or mag toons with insane Wrath of Elements builds to be found. I know it's not the same, and you want what you want and I won't tell you to feel differently, but I don't agree with the conclusion that it devastates group play. It actually gives newer Cyrodiil players a chance to participate meaningfully enough to have an incentive to keep at it and do better, increasing participation and improving overall player skill for the population, which betters the group play in my opinion. I wish they would do the same thing in BGs, but I don't expect it. I just don't play BGs unless I really feel like getting owned that day.

Given that a lot of people are upset, what would make the most sense to me is to offer competing campaigns, one with set limits, and one without, so people can choose a home they prefer. Then they'd also have baselines for testing purposes in addition to an understanding of what players want. If not enough people go to the set-limited camps such that testing is rendered useless, provide an incentive to go there go so that they can get the data, but that would also be an opportunity to learn that it's not what their players want.

Pepegrillos · March 2021

They took a decision based on a small sample of biased feedback (largely, people from the forums that enjoyed the ruleset). If this is how they handle feedback data, I don't even want to know how they handle the performance related data they gather from running these cyrodiil tests.

WaywardArgonian · March 2021

Not in favor at all. The definition ZOS uses of proc sets is too wide and hits many sets that no one had a problem with. PVP loses a lot of flavor this way.

virtus753 · March 2021

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

These "Proc Sets" negatively impact only the Cyrodiil PVP server performance?
They do not affect the IC PVP server performance? Or the PVE zone Server performance?
If that's the case then maybe the size of Cyrodiil Map along with all the calculations that are being preformed.

Are the NPC using any of the "banned" sets?

Well no matter whats the cause, it looks really bad for PVP.

No one at ZOS said the proc sets impact performance. In fact, if you read the comment linked in the OP, you will see they found no appreciable performance gain from disabling proc sets.

This is a behavior-based decision, not a performance-based one.

Would it even make sense to keep this behaviour based change if it results in worse performance as a side effect like we have witnessed for the past 3 weeks

Per ZOS' comments, the degraded performance is due to the increase in population. Which isn't really any different than poplocked situations right now, since there's a hard limit to the number of players able to enter the same campaign simultaneously. The no-proc condition doesn't allow an alliance to exceed poplock, so what we're seeing is that alliances are poplocked more frequently rather than there being worse performance during poplock.

Having attested to the fact that the no-proc ruleset encourages more people to play, would they then risk saying they were going to re-enable procs and thus intentionally and actively encourage lower populations in Cyro? They have lowered population caps in the past, but they haven't revealed when or by how much for many years now. Openly stating that they are reimplementing rulesets that discourage participation when they have a choice to keep rulesets that encourage participation is another matter and would not look very good at all.

SshadowSscale · March 2021

Note how zos stated they are doing it because 1 it attracted more people 2 people enjoy it more and 3 they are working on their coding to allow more rule sets according to proc sets.... possibly something like only allowing 1 proc set per char or something like that.... so yeah for a while it will be only 19 sets but they will most likely do something like the one proc set per char later on wich will allow one set from all of the proc set pool and the rest to be filled with the 19 core sets.... my only problem is them only making this no proc rule in cyrodil and not ic or bgs meaning I have to now have 2 builds for all chars I play on... one for no proc cyrodil and one for proc meta areas wich sucks

gatekeeper13 · March 2021

Totally agree. Would agree more if they were disabled forever or if they added a separate no-proc set campaign.

Raegwyr · March 2021

So my magblade from being bad but carried by proc will be useless for cyro for half a year? Nice job, *** zos

CSose · March 2021

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Note how zos stated they are doing it because 1 it attracted more people 2 people enjoy it more and 3 they are working on their coding to allow more rule sets according to proc sets.... possibly something like only allowing 1 proc set per char or something like that.... so yeah for a while it will be only 19 sets but they will most likely do something like the one proc set per char later on wich will allow one set from all of the proc set pool and the rest to be filled with the 19 core sets.... my only problem is them only making this no proc rule in cyrodil and not ic or bgs meaning I have to now have 2 builds for all chars I play on... one for no proc cyrodil and one for proc meta areas wich sucks

Judge them by what they do and the results they produce. Everything else is just words.

sharquez · March 2021

Well my guild was going to be excited to comeback to ESO for the new patch but this kills that prospect. You want to put 1 campaign with set limits. Fine great. Don't make that choice for us. I have some colorful language regarding my true feelings on this. But I'll hold my tongue.

Mojmir · March 2021

"Build diversity" lol

Brrrofski · March 2021

I'd prefer it was damage procs and healing procs.

So no crimson, no calurions.

But things like lich, new moon, pariah etc are fine by me.

QuebraRegra · March 2021

I only stick my head in PVP now when leveling alts in sub 50, and lol sets are not in my builds 9any training gear is choice).... But I do have a sense of 'fairness".

What is going on here? i thought ZOS did the test and proc sets had no bearing on performance?

If that's true and the proc sets did not affect performance (should have been obvious in short), then why 'test' again? and the duration?

If the issue is that people don't like proc sets in PVP, cool, make no proc set campaigns, like no CP campaigns?

Make PVE/PVP entirely separate games.... separate balancing teams and changes completely. Maybe change or make a new PVP where instead of the standard characters and factions it's a good v.s evil, with players being able to choose to make monster characters and attack cyrodiil? Didn't LORTO do something like that?

starkerealm · March 2021

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'd prefer it was damage procs and healing procs.

So no crimson, no calurions.

But things like lich, new moon, pariah etc are fine by me.

Lich is absolutely brutal in PvP. It is so much burst, it's not even funny. Stack with NMA, and... yeah, that's the exact kind of environment that got us here in the first place.

dcam86b14_ESO · March 2021

yeah im all for it.
Just throw out all sets and make sets equalized when entering cyro.

Crash427 · March 2021

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

yeah im all for it.
Just throw out all sets and make sets equalized when entering cyro.

If i'm going to play a game where all the loadouts are standardized, i'll go play one that works thanks.

CSose · March 2021

Crash427 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

yeah im all for it.
Just throw out all sets and make sets equalized when entering cyro.

If i'm going to play a game where all the loadouts are standardized, i'll go play one that works thanks.

This is the problem. Balance is better with the set limitations, but performance is worse. We can only guess at how they managed it, but this is the case.

Iskaldt · March 2021

I am so AGAINST this decicion. and im pissed off.

They expect us to play with what, 15,19 sets for over half a year when there was no notable performance increase during this test and absolutley no reason why they should leave it like this ??

i want to see this so called "positive feedback".

This decicion is stupid.

SshadowSscale · March 2021

starkerealm wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'd prefer it was damage procs and healing procs.

So no crimson, no calurions.

But things like lich, new moon, pariah etc are fine by me.

Lich is absolutely brutal in PvP. It is so much burst, it's not even funny. Stack with NMA, and... yeah, that's the exact kind of environment that got us here in the first place.

Uhm.... do you even have an idea what lich does?..... lich is the set that if you drop below 30precent mag you get 1k mag recent for 10 or 30 seconds and it is a 1 minute cooldown....... so idk where the burst comes from but ok then buddy nuke me with that lich set burst lmao

Jaraal · March 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

Having attested to the fact that the no-proc ruleset encourages more people to play

I think you misspelled "double AP modifier".

Will be interesting to see how much of a drop off there will be next week.

Urzigurumash · March 2021

Who wants to start the Nerf Trainee thread

Crash427 · March 2021

CSose wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

yeah im all for it.
Just throw out all sets and make sets equalized when entering cyro.

If i'm going to play a game where all the loadouts are standardized, i'll go play one that works thanks.

This is the problem. Balance is better with the set limitations, but performance is worse. We can only guess at how they managed it, but this is the case.

That's debatable. Magblade is just a crappy sorc with set limitations.

WreckfulAbandon · March 2021

As someone who was initially happy to play no-proc PvP, the extremely limited number of sets available made me quickly reconsider how enjoyable it is. This is terrible news that this is lasting until Q3. I'll take Crimson and Vateshran procs everywhere over this stale testing environment lasting for several more months. I was planning on starting to actually play this game again but this piece of news has me reconsidering even paying for a sub. The test needs to end just as it was stated it would.

starkerealm · March 2021

SshadowSscale wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'd prefer it was damage procs and healing procs.

So no crimson, no calurions.

But things like lich, new moon, pariah etc are fine by me.

Lich is absolutely brutal in PvP. It is so much burst, it's not even funny. Stack with NMA, and... yeah, that's the exact kind of environment that got us here in the first place.

Uhm.... do you even have an idea what lich does?..... lich is the set that if you drop below 30precent mag you get 1k mag recent for 10 or 30 seconds and it is a 1 minute cooldown....... so idk where the burst comes from but ok then buddy nuke me with that lich set burst lmao

Yeah, that's exactly what the set does. And, on a sorc, it lets you drop CCs on your target, forcing them to burn their resources, while you still have the mag to snuff them. In the hands of an experienced player, it is nasty.

Urzigurumash · March 2021

Do the 4% Healing Done / Healing Taken lines still work on 2-4 pieces that have them? Not that I care, just interesting if they do but Willow's Path and such do not