Cyrodiil will continue to be limited to 19 sets until Q3 of 2021. Are you in favor?

Kory

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

PvP players: Nerf procs please, they're oppressive and stifling gameplay.

Also PvP players: No, not like that!

Look, can't say I'm particularly pleased with the end result, but this is quite literally what people have been begging ZOS for since ages ago, and you finally got it. Now suddenly people realize it isn't quite what everyone wanted. Should have been more specific. "Proc" is an extremely broad term encompassing pretty much anything that introduces another set of calculations. Even stuff like granting a static Minor Force buff, apparently.

It's an obvious Monkey's Paw situation - you got your wish but it's not really what was asked for.

Surely the devs are not so out-of-touch that they believed players were actually asking for sets like Automaton or Seducer's to be disqualified. The overwhelming majority of player requests involved problematic sets such as Malacath, Crimson, Unchained Terror, Syvarra's, etc.

The developers can either sit back and laugh at players' misfortune like an evil lamp genie or they can begin to address the spirit of the player complaints and reign in the problematic sets while restoring the rest.

Just the way you selected a few mentions, someone else may have a different view of those sets (and others), and their function and balance towards gameplay. So ALL procs and calculations are disabled for testing, and people can't analyze over what proc should and shouldn't be allowed.
Moving away from performance testing a little bit; They would not do this if a large portion of feedback wasn't leaning in that direction, and just look at the amount of players in Cryadil during this.

Also
"I use this, that, and this, and they are not even procs for real, let me use them" is thankfully not relevant in a stat based campaign. Just class skills and player actions.

Although I get your point, I also have set ups I want to use in Cyradil right now instead of flat stats. Lets be honest, a lot of players were talking about the damage procs anyway....

regime211

Goregrinder wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

To be frank this is disgusting. I have bought numerous DLC to be able to grind some of these proc sets specifically for pvp, in additon to hundred of thousands of gold's worth in-game tempers I have used to gold them up, only for zos to disable them in pvp.

Notwithstanding I bought the Greymoor chapter less then 6 months ago simply to get the Mythic items for pvp which are now useless.

If this were any other product rather than a computer game, such sharp business practices would actualy be illegal

You can still wear Mythics in Battlegrounds. That's still PVP.

You cant even use your CP in BG's that is a joke! this whole decision is a complete joke, it goes to show some of you are ok with forking over money to a company who can just tell you one day "hey we are disabling half the game Enjoy" and you guy's would be fine with it, you do realize this stops people from wanting to farm sets/monsters due to it not working in PVP where the MAIN population is at. IC can't even stay pop locked without an event going on, and what are they going to do when everyone moves down to IC and the performance tanks through the roof? disable proc sets down there as well?

YandereGirlfriend

starkerealm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

To be frank this is disgusting. I have bought numerous DLC to be able to grind some of these proc sets specifically for pvp, in additon to hundred of thousands of gold's worth in-game tempers I have used to gold them up, only for zos to disable them in pvp.

Notwithstanding I bought the Greymoor chapter less then 6 months ago simply to get the Mythic items for pvp which are now useless.

If this were any other product rather than a computer game, such sharp business practices would actualy be illegal

You can still wear Mythics in Battlegrounds. That's still PVP.

Also in the IC, which is very much PvP.

The whole, "it would be illegal," bit is also hilariously hyperbolic.

Plenty of players prefer Cyrodiil to...

I'm going to stop you there, as Cyrodiil doesn't have plenty of players. Seriously, we're looking at something like 1m active accounts, and there's room in Crrodiil for a couple hundred per alliance? Maybe? Probably less than that. (Seriously, there's less than 60k slots for PvP in ESO at any given moment across all six servers.)

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The "illegal" part is overblown but it's also not completely off the mark. Obviously, we all signed away our rights in the ToS but if, say, Nvidia tried to retroactively change their drivers to nerf Bitcoin mining on cards that had already been sold to buyers... they would have a class-action lawsuit on their hands and they would lose it. ZOS is doing the same basic thing to players but, due to the ToS, nobody has a legal leg to stand on.

And if Sony removed backwards compatibility and LINUX support from their PS3s through a firmware update, they'd face a class-action lawsuit which... oh, no, wait, Sony settled that suit eight years later to the tune of 65 bucks.

So... yeah, you could sue ZOS, it'd take a decade, and then get a buck-fifty if you're lucky.

It is "plenty" of players in relative, not absolute, terms. I would suspect that there are proportionally more players who dislike this change than there are of sweaty, CP-Cyrodiil resource 1vX'ers who seem to be its primary proponents. The latter are definitely over-represented on the forums, though.

And I don't know the details about what happened to Sony but I do know that citing that a lawsuit was settled for a paltry sum does not necessarily say anything about the actual legal merit of the case - only that one side potentially had better lawyers--and the ability to sustain them indefinitely in litigation--while the other side did not. I don't remember what a PS3 cost but getting refunded 65$ of its initial cost would still likely be ~10-15% of the total. If someone had been subbed to ESO for 6 years and had bought all of the expansions at launch, that same settlement percentage would be several hundred dollars.

madrab73

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Keep procs sets in pve land.

I prefer to kill & die from skill, not a proc.

Their change made performance worse. Skills don't work at busy times before they inflict it on us, how will you use them after?

starkerealm

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is "plenty" of players in relative, not absolute, terms. I would suspect that there are proportionally more players who dislike this change than there are of sweaty, CP-Cyrodiil resource 1vX'ers who seem to be its primary proponents. The latter are definitely over-represented on the forums, though.

Given the overall Cyrodiil population has increased since the test went live, that somewhat suggests that this is a more attractive ruleset for the community at large. And, yeah, those of us who sit here hammering on our keyboards do not make up a majority of the community by any stretch.

Now, could that population increase be due to players who are just there for double CP, or because they were curious about the new ruleset. There are potential explanations that we can't, currently, account for. However, that ZOS is now extending the test into Q3 suggests that they're happy with the metrics.

I realize none of this addresses exactly what you were saying, but it is worth remembering that the dedicated PvP community in ESO is a minuscule portion of the playerbase.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

And I don't know the details about what happened to Sony but I do know that citing that a lawsuit was settled for a paltry sum does not necessarily say anything about the actual legal merit of the case - only that one side potentially had better lawyers--and the ability to sustain them indefinitely in litigation--while the other side did not. I don't remember what a PS3 cost but getting refunded 65$ of its initial cost would still likely be ~10-15% of the total. If someone had been subbed to ESO for 6 years and had bought all of the expansions at launch, that same settlement percentage would be several hundred dollars.

Except, it wouldn't. Because $65 dollars is significantly better than you usually see from similar suits. Realistically, the most you'd be likely to see out of a class action settlement would be a couple days of ESO+ or a pittance of Crowns. More likely, it would be a discount coupon towards the digital purchase of a Bethesda published game.

Seriously, class action suits tend to be seriously disappointing when you see them to their conclusion. "Your car could explode into flames and kill you, here's a coupon for an oil change at the dealership."

A lawsuit (class action or not) also requires a primary, and repairable, harm, called, a "tort."

There is no demonstrable harm here. "Oh no, a balance change has made my previous PvP build non-viable." Yeah, you can be banned from an MMO, and that is not a tort. There is case law on that subject. Balance changes are, pretty solidly, a non start.

Araneae6537

If those are our two options, I’m take just 18 sets (or whatever the exact number is) as I find the combat much more enjoyable and I feel like I’m learning more, focusing on using my abilities on other players and likewise experiencing the various class abilities used against me. Truly, so much of that seemed buried under ridiculous proc sets before. (I am relatively new to PvP, but have been playing several hours a day most days since MYM.)

Now my ideal option would be to bring back all the inoffensive proc sets that I don’t think anyone’s complained about: Briarheart, Seducer’s, various healing sets, just not the free stupid damage.

Next choice would be to have campaign options with and without proc sets because I understand some people really don’t like sets being so limited and I didn't wish to see that forced on them.

But as for what I personally prefer? This is fine and I look forward to learning from my many deaths over the coming months, hehe!

Banana

I don't go anymore.

Jaraal

starkerealm wrote: »

Given the overall Cyrodiil population has increased since the test went live

Do you have a source for this statistic? In my experience of playing on Gray Host PC/NA for the last few months, the campaign has been pop locked at the same times as before the tests, and one, two, or three barred at the same times as usual. So I'd be interested in knowing where you acquired this "fact."

starkerealm

Jaraal wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Given the overall Cyrodiil population has increased since the test went live

Do you have a source for this statistic? In my experience of playing on Gray Host PC/NA for the last few months, the campaign has been pop locked at the same times as before the tests, and one, two, or three barred at the same times as usual. So I'd be interested in knowing where you acquired this "fact."

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

Emphasis added.

Unless you're assuming Gina is lying to us.

Jaraal

starkerealm wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Given the overall Cyrodiil population has increased since the test went live

Do you have a source for this statistic? In my experience of playing on Gray Host PC/NA for the last few months, the campaign has been pop locked at the same times as before the tests, and one, two, or three barred at the same times as usual. So I'd be interested in knowing where you acquired this "fact."

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

Emphasis added.

Unless you're assuming Gina is lying to us.

If the population is locked at the same time every day, and the same multi bars the rest of the time, and Gina says that.... then they must have raised the population caps for the test.

Thanks for sourcing it, though.

oscarovegren

Time to git gud then by being successful while not being carried by procsets

Vlad9425

The effectiveness of proc sets should have been tuned down but completely removing them is a terrible decision imo. People will quickly get bored of these restrictions and I see the PvP population declining after this.

Scardan

Well, I like proc sets, because of the whole effects and things happen. It is fun when giant something randomly appears and smack people around, I love it! xD
I am not against disabling them in Cyro, if people do not like them there. Just keep them active in BGs, where I can have my fun. I am also not a health tank, I am pretty easy to be killed and I die often, so it kinda balances things out.

I wish they were more usefull in PvE, because sets that ust buff stats are boring in comparison. Nothing special about Julianos, for example.

nbksaske

Will I still be able to use spinners and seducer ? They're not procs, are they?

Seraphayel

nbksaske wrote: »

Will I still be able to use spinners and seducer ? They're not procs, are they?

Spinner‘s yes, Seducer no.

List of available sets:

Amber Plasm
Armor of the Trainee
Beekeeper’s Gear
Crafty Alfiq
Draugr Hulk
Endurance
Fortified Brass
Grace of the Ancients
Hunding’s Rage
Impregnable Armor
Law of Julianos
Leviathan
Mother’s Sorrow
Plague Doctor
Shacklebreaker
Spinner’s Garments
Spriggan’s Thorns
Willpower Agility

Stahlor

madrab73 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

At least people can stop complaining now, or not?

They plan to reduce build diversity and make performance worse, why would this stop complaints?

Build diversity is exactly what people are complaining about. As soon as the opponent has something different, it must be the reason why one got killed...

Scardan

Stahlor wrote: »

At least people can stop complaining now, or not?

People will never stop to complaining

Fhritz

I was doing a bomber build until this, I want to cry please

Yasha

Last few weeks has been the best pvp in ages so this was great news.

Scardan

CSose wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

PvP players: Nerf procs please, they're oppressive and stifling gameplay.

Also PvP players: No, not like that!

Look, can't say I'm particularly pleased with the end result, but this is quite literally what people have been begging ZOS for since ages ago, and you finally got it. Now suddenly people realize it isn't quite what everyone wanted. Should have been more specific. "Proc" is an extremely broad term encompassing pretty much anything that introduces another set of calculations. Even stuff like granting a static Minor Force buff, apparently.

It's literally NOT what anyone has been asking for.

I personally have seen "remove proc sets" many times here on forum.

Stahlor

Yasha wrote: »

Last few weeks has been the best pvp in ages so this was great news.

15% base mitigation + 5k base health - how do you kill somebody? By spamming dizzy swing and executioner? This will only make people running even more in ball groups and massive zergs.

Scardan

regime211 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

To be frank this is disgusting. I have bought numerous DLC to be able to grind some of these proc sets specifically for pvp, in additon to hundred of thousands of gold's worth in-game tempers I have used to gold them up, only for zos to disable them in pvp.

Notwithstanding I bought the Greymoor chapter less then 6 months ago simply to get the Mythic items for pvp which are now useless.

If this were any other product rather than a computer game, such sharp business practices would actualy be illegal

You can still wear Mythics in Battlegrounds. That's still PVP.

You cant even use your CP in BG's that is a joke! this whole decision is a complete joke, it goes to show some of you are ok with forking over money to a company who can just tell you one day "hey we are disabling half the game Enjoy" and you guy's would be fine with it, you do realize this stops people from wanting to farm sets/monsters due to it not working in PVP where the MAIN population is at. IC can't even stay pop locked without an event going on, and what are they going to do when everyone moves down to IC and the performance tanks through the roof? disable proc sets down there as well?

So less complains from PvP players who complain about the NEED to farm monster sets in PvE while not enjoying that. This is actually a big, fat plus, that you have not to run the content you have no interest for and change the whole build back and forth, from PvE to PvP or searching all the Skyshards to invest in the skill you do need in PvE only.

virtus753

Stahlor wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Last few weeks has been the best pvp in ages so this was great news.

15% base mitigation + 5k base health - how do you kill somebody? By spamming dizzy swing and executioner? This will only make people running even more in ball groups and massive zergs.

10% base mitigation. They stated in the patch notes for 6.3.2 that 15% was a typo in the initial 6.3.0 notes.

We're losing much more mitigation than that from CP with the new system. Builds that were previously at 30% or more damage reduction in CP environments will be at no more than 14% damage reduction from base + passive CP stars against player-sourced damage in CP PvP environments. (Perhaps a hair higher if you slot the new Ironclad for 1731 extra armor, but that's useless if you're already at armor cap.)

The base health is actually going up to 16k, so more than +5k compared to live. But we're losing all of the 20% bonus to stats from 300 CP that got applied to all sources in CP-enabled environments: food/drink, mundus (if hp/mag/stam), sets, traits, enchantments, and racials. And we're losing the 5k from Battle Spirit across the board, along with the 20% bonus to that in CP PvP from 300 CP invested.

In no-CP PvP players will have that extra 10% damage reduction, but the removal of the 5k from Battle Spirit will help keep health in check even after the increase of base health.

Edited to clarify the 14% cap from base + *passive* CP stars.

Larcomar

Am I in favour? Well, it's pretty dumb. But lets face it, the irony is pretty delicious. All those uber pvp'rs who were convinced they'd be gods if they could just get groups, cross healing, proc sets etc banned (and now, I see, sorcs!) finally got what they wanted. I suspect they're going to find it hard to fulfil their 1vX fantasies when there's no one else left in Cyro, but I'm sure they'll have fun playing horsey...

Personally, I'm over it. I enjoyed my time in Cyro but, let's face it, it's been dying for a while. The persistant performance issues have driven many away, the reduction in group size killed the pug scene, and the changes to cross healing meant casual zergers just got farmed by organised groups. It's just that it was just death by a thousand cuts and you kept hoping it would get better. With this change, well, I think i've finally realised that it's time to move on. That's prob not a bad thing tbh.

Don't get me wrong. There are obviously people who like this and the the double AP's kept the servers afloat during the "test." Cyro will limp along for a bit longer. I don't think this will kill it, it'll just wither on the vine. But, maybe, that's what Zos wants. I mean, they're ultimately here to make a profit, and pvp seems to be taking up a colossal amount of bandwith, when it's actually a relatively niche activity for the playerbase. We'll see.

I guess my surprise here is that.... people are surprised. I mean, they admitted that reducing group size didn't improve performance but did it anyway. They came out and said that banning solo's from cross healing didn't cut the lag, but said they like the "behavioural changes." Then they announce a *three week* no proc test. i mean, it was pretty obvious what they were going to do...

Kalik_Gold

Just create a new PvP zone - that only has 4 builds StamDD, MagDD, Tank and Heal. If they want it so basic.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7128460#Comment_7128460

Katheriah

Scardan wrote: »

So less complains from PvP players who complain about the NEED to farm monster sets in PvE while not enjoying that. This is actually a big, fat plus, that you have not to run the content you have no interest for and change the whole build back and forth, from PvE to PvP or searching all the Skyshards to invest in the skill you do need in PvE only.

You are right, a lot of PvP players won't be doing that anymore. Mainly because they finally see that ZOS doesn't actually care about Cyro and they're trying out other games. So yes, they won't be doing ESO content they don't like.

Stahlor

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

Just create a new PvP zone - that only has 4 builds StamDD, MagDD, Tank and Heal. If they want it so basic.

Stam in Hundings+ Agility + Trainee, Mag in Julianos + Willpower + Trainee - no tanks and healers, they're op...

Raegwyr

Yasha wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Last few weeks has been the best pvp in ages so this was great news.

15% base mitigation + 5k base health - how do you kill somebody? By spamming dizzy swing and executioner? This will only make people running even more in ball groups and massive zergs.

[Quoted post was removed]

Show me how i can kill great stamcro/stamden on my magnb with no procs when my whole burst can be mitigated with one roll dodge and my healing output is not enough go survive the pressure of their offensive kit.
Ojly thing i can do in that situation is reset the fight till my enemy gets bored and die/run away.

Problem is that zos didn't care about balance, why when classes can be carried by procs. Test only shows how broken some of the classes are compared to another

tonyblack

As long as battlegrounds unaffected, I don’t care. Usually go there only with guild events nowadays and even then it’s laggy mess and barely any fun with most skills delayed, deaths from desyncs, etc. Easy transmutes the only incentive to bother, what sets working barely even matter.

Mettaricana

Literally just make battle spirit cut proc damage by like 50% we keep our sets and while in pvp proc meta becomes much less and issue its a stupidly simple fix compared to disabling 5th pc for all but 19 sets.