Most FAIR solution of scaling from CP 1.0 to CP 2.0
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phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭
And just how many 2.25x multiplier quests are there? 50? 100? Can't be much more than that, very high XP modifier is pretty rare and is not a universal feature of main quests.
they dont cancel each other out if you mainly do 2.25x quests. not exactly rocket science...
That would be 100*2.25*7485XP = 1 684 125. That's barely anything.
Even with Inspiration+ 100% xp boost that's only 13 473 000.
With 10 characters that's like 135M, which is respectable, but wouldn't have been enough to take you to 1.2k CP.
You really aren't. I'm about at the same CP level as you with almost the same amount of hours.as I have done most of those plus first clears/kills on most of my 10 chars I am actually cut off from the good exp. Unless I delete chars or buy more slots and create new characters.
I didn't grind out 2.25x quests on 10 characters to achive this, therefore any other source of XP is just as good as those quests.
Not exactly rocket science.
But even besides that, it's a simple fact that you aren't locked out of good exp as the objectively best source of XP is the Daily Random queue. Nothing can compare to a single dose of 100k+ XP.
You can't rightfully blame ZoS for the results of a conscious choice you made.Nobody forced me to create those 10. ai wanted to. And not complaining about having done that.
Complaining about where that now leaves me now if zos does not at least convert cp partially...
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remosito✭✭✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »
And just how many 2.25x multiplier quests are there? 50? 100? Can't be much more than that, very high XP modifier is pretty rare and is not a universal feature of main quests.
they dont cancel each other out if you mainly do 2.25x quests. not exactly rocket science...
That would be 100*2.25*7485XP = 1 684 125. That's barely anything.
Even with Inspiration+ 100% xp boost that's only 13 473 000.
With 10 characters that's like 135M, which is respectable, but wouldn't have been enough to take you to 1.2k CP.
You really aren't. I'm about at the same CP level as you with almost the same amount of hours.as I have done most of those plus first clears/kills on most of my 10 chars I am actually cut off from the good exp. Unless I delete chars or buy more slots and create new characters.
I didn't grind out 2.25x quests on 10 characters to achive this, therefore any other source of XP is just as good as those quests.
Not exactly rocket science.
But even besides that, it's a simple fact that you aren't locked out of good exp as the objectively best source of XP is the Daily Random queue. Nothing can compare to a single dose of 100k+ XP.
You can't rightfully blame ZoS for the results of a conscious choice you made.Nobody forced me to create those 10. ai wanted to. And not complaining about having done that.
Complaining about where that now leaves me now if zos does not at least convert cp partially...
Add to that first kills and clears and the 1.5x quests of which there are way more than the 2.25x ones. As for the 135M. you calculated. Smart people would do it during double exp events with plenty of inspiration stored up and a scroll/pot active....
same as the first kills/clears.
Doing daily random is grind in my book. After the first x times it is always gonna be something you have already done many times. So doesnt count and I actually never have done one in all my 4000+ hours...
So even though I never did the cp grind including random daily. Did so much fishing and probably a couple hundred hours of coding and debugging mods. And pvp campaigns for transmutes (got like 6000 squirreled away). I got there way faster. Just proving my point that the easy fast exp activities exist. work. and I no longer have access to them....
I can very much blame ZOS for not at least partially converting cp_old to cp_new. Very much so. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's their choice. And all choices are well eligible to critique from others. Don't see what is your issue with that...
Well...afaik... If you can cite me a law. National or international that would prevent them from doing a conversion that ups my cp in system2.0....that would obviously change them having an actual choice..ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So there has been no response from ZOS yet ?
I hope they will consider implementing it so no experience will be lost in Champion system 2.0.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
Of course we did loose exp.. At least the way I and others see it.
How is it difficult to grasp for some people that some might look at a thing one way and others look at it differently?ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So there has been no response from ZOS yet ?
I hope they will consider implementing it so no experience will be lost in Champion system 2.0.
And I hope they don't. I'm looking forward to being under the CP cap for the first time ever.
We didn't lose any experience. We used it up the moment it got converted into a CP.
And I say that as someone who has always had the 50% penalty for being above the cap.The Moot Councillor1 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just give me 3 CP load outs I can customize and swap between for free. Like outfits.PvP needs more love.1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Because this formula doesn't change, regardless of "how you look at it."
Of course we did loose exp.. At least the way I and others see it.
How is it difficult to grasp for some people that some might look at a thing one way and others look at it differently?
((CP's you have in 1.0) - (CP's you have in 2.0)) x any XP value here still equals Z E R O.
Your CP's are the same. Your XP earned is the same.
The cost to get there is the only thing changing, and that's for the catch up mechanic, intended for people with far less CP than you have to be complaining here.
It doesn't make you less viable, it allows newer players to become viable faster.
This entitlement perspective is quickly becoming the latest dead horse.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Of course we did loose exp.. At least the way I and others see it.
How is it difficult to grasp for some people that some might look at a thing one way and others look at it differently?
Because this formula doesn't change, regardless of "how you look at it."
((CP's you have in 1.0) - (CP's you have in 2.0)) x any XP value here still equals Z E R O.
Your CP's are the same. Your XP earned is the same.
The cost to get there is the only thing changing, and that's for the catch up mechanic, intended for people with far less CP than you have to be complaining here.
It doesn't make you less viable, it allows newer players to become viable faster.
This entitlement perspective is quickly becoming the latest dead horse.
As I said. You can look at it any way you want. All good with me. Where I am from it's totally normal for people
to have a right to their own way of seeing things and expressing them even. (Well.. short of hate speech that is)
[Snip]
The way I see it CP number is simply an expression of how much Xp you have earned.
If you look at this table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uS2H-elnpVngKOMBqwl3LHytDHSOBwmDfDoQHHOtoh4/edit?usp=sharing
You will see:
- CP1.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 515M Xp.
- CP2.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 206M Xp.
So by keeping our Cp the same I indeed loose 60% of my Xp. Pretty simple.
As for catch up mechanic. Why is there a secondary catchup mechanic involving degrading vet players Xp necessary. That's what the vertical progression cap is there for. Which is generously low imo.
[Edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on March 4, 2021 1:56PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)3 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭
First
Why is this still hard to understand, that CP 2.0 completely different system of character progression? They have only similar names, that's all.
Problem is that you just keep ignoring this fact.
Since these are two completely different systems, there must be some sort of transition between them. Convert CP 1:1 it's a mistake that can be made by a schoolkid.
When we are talking about any transition from one system to another, there is one obvious example that completely describe this process:
if someone want to exchange USD$ to EUR€ , there will be some exchange rate (1 EUR -> 1.2126 USD)
Therefore, a method was proposed for converting CP based on your current XP. If you got better idea how to move from CP1.0 to CP2.0, please tell it ( Hope it's not 1:1
).
Next. I just truely don't understand why some are against of conversion by XP.
- The players who are just grab current cap 810 , will have a little amount of extra CP;
- The players which got 1100-1200, will have ~ 150- 250 (still need to grind for cap of 1800);
- The players who are still don't grab 810 CP, will also have some extra CP points to spend;
- The new players who are don't have CP, will gain it in 3 times faster, because of "catch up mechanism";
And everything seems fine. Vet players who are already played a lot will got fair amount of extra CP (we will not jump at once to the cap of 1800), new players and players beyond cap will have "catch up mechanism" , which will help them to gain them CP a lot faster.
However, there is only one kind of players, which are against of scaling by XP. They are: "Vet players who are tired to be over the CAP", i'm pretty sure , that this kind of players don't play PvP on CP campaign, they don't do achievements (or already done) like a "Godslayer", they are simply decorating their homes like in SIMS (and it's cool, i have nothing against homesteading, we are different and everyone should do what he/she like to do), so this kind of players simply will got their CP by doing daily routine. And that's what i don't understand.First, if you will somehow jump over cap of 1800 you still will be able to get 1800 CPs to reach 3600. This is not enough? Second , why this kind of players who like to grind (mb they have thousands of free hours, OK) or players who are decorating houses, so eagerly want to deprives us(75%) of the opportunity of getting extra CP (based on current XP)??? Please answer me to these questions.
Ultimately:
80% are vote for converting CP based on XP. Pretty sure, that if this poll was among all players (not only those who are on the forum), we could be able to add ~5 more percent, but alright let's make an assumption of +- 5%. Even with this assumption min 75% of players will be ignored. ZOS can't JUST IGNORE 3/4 of their community, this is unacceptable.
Edited by Lamagrokie on March 3, 2021 7:23AM2 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Of course we did loose exp.. At least the way I and others see it.
How is it difficult to grasp for some people that some might look at a thing one way and others look at it differently?
Because this formula doesn't change, regardless of "how you look at it."
((CP's you have in 1.0) - (CP's you have in 2.0)) x any XP value here still equals Z E R O.
Your CP's are the same. Your XP earned is the same.
The cost to get there is the only thing changing, and that's for the catch up mechanic, intended for people with far less CP than you have to be complaining here.
It doesn't make you less viable, it allows newer players to become viable faster.
This entitlement perspective is quickly becoming the latest dead horse.
As I said. You can look at it any way you want. All good with me. Where I am from it's totally normal for people
to have a right to their own way of seeing things and expressing them even. (Well.. short of hate speech that is)
[Snip]
The way I see it CP number is simply an expression of how much Xp you have earned.
If you look at this table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uS2H-elnpVngKOMBqwl3LHytDHSOBwmDfDoQHHOtoh4/edit?usp=sharing
You will see:
- CP1.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 515M Xp.
- CP2.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 206M Xp.
So by keeping our Cp the same I indeed loose 60% of my Xp. Pretty simple.
As for catch up mechanic. Why is there a secondary catchup mechanic involving degrading vet players Xp necessary. That's what the vertical progression cap is there for. Which is generously low imo.
And here is where you are incorrect. In CP 1.0 I have 1200 CP but it took me 654,108,001 XP to get there not 515M. if you are going to reward me with free CP I want what I earned not what you earned so I should be at 2100 CP while you are at 1900 CP because I earned more than you even though our numerical CP number on live is currently the same.
Maybe they should just leave the cap value at 810 so that neither of us will feel like we are getting screwed over by the other. Of course then it will take 5 billion XP to get to 3600 CP instead of 2.2 billion XP, but hey then we will be getting exactly the CP our experience has earned us.
Edited by ZOS_Volpe on March 4, 2021 1:57PM0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Of course we did loose exp.. At least the way I and others see it.
How is it difficult to grasp for some people that some might look at a thing one way and others look at it differently?
Because this formula doesn't change, regardless of "how you look at it."
((CP's you have in 1.0) - (CP's you have in 2.0)) x any XP value here still equals Z E R O.
Your CP's are the same. Your XP earned is the same.
The cost to get there is the only thing changing, and that's for the catch up mechanic, intended for people with far less CP than you have to be complaining here.
It doesn't make you less viable, it allows newer players to become viable faster.
This entitlement perspective is quickly becoming the latest dead horse.
As I said. You can look at it any way you want. All good with me. Where I am from it's totally normal for people
to have a right to their own way of seeing things and expressing them even. (Well.. short of hate speech that is)
[Snip]
The way I see it CP number is simply an expression of how much Xp you have earned.
If you look at this table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uS2H-elnpVngKOMBqwl3LHytDHSOBwmDfDoQHHOtoh4/edit?usp=sharing
You will see:
- CP1.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 515M Xp.
- CP2.0 a value of 1200 expresses I have made 206M Xp.
So by keeping our Cp the same I indeed loose 60% of my Xp. Pretty simple.
As for catch up mechanic. Why is there a secondary catchup mechanic involving degrading vet players Xp necessary. That's what the vertical progression cap is there for. Which is generously low imo.
And here is where you are incorrect. In CP 1.0 I have 1200 CP but it took me 654,108,001 XP to get there not 515M. if you are going to reward me with free CP I want what I earned not what you earned so I should be at 2100 CP while you are at 1900 CP because I earned more than you even though our numerical CP number on live is currently the same.
Maybe they should just leave the cap value at 810 so that neither of us will feel like we are getting screwed over by the other. Of course then it will take 5 billion XP to get to 3600 CP instead of 2.2 billion XP, but hey then we will be getting exactly the CP our experience has earned us.
where did you get that 654M value from?
assuming that is actually correct.
so your answer to you not getting correctly boosted to 2100 but only 1900. Is to not boost at all and stay at 1200?
talk about kneejerk, tossing baby out with the bathwater...Edited by ZOS_Volpe on March 4, 2021 1:57PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
Lamagrokie wrote: »
Ultimately:
80% are vote for converting CP based on XP. Pretty sure, that if this poll was among all players (not only those who are on the forum), we could be able to add ~5 more percent, but alright let's make an assumption of +- 5%. Even with this assumption min 75% of players will be ignored. ZOS can't JUST IGNORE 3/4 of their community, this is unacceptable.
You're right! Edited by simpledude31998 on March 3, 2021 8:44AM0 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭Lamagrokie wrote: »
First
Why is this still hard to understand, that CP 2.0 completely different system of character progression? They have only similar names, that's all.
Problem is that you just keep ignoring this fact.
Since these are two completely different systems, there must be some sort of transition between them. Convert CP 1:1 it's a mistake that can be made by a schoolkid.
When we are talking about any transition from one system to another, there is one obvious example that completely describe this process:
if someone want to exchange USD$ to EUR€ , there will be some exchange rate (1 EUR -> 1.2126 USD)
Therefore, a method was proposed for converting CP based on your current XP. If you got better idea how to move from CP1.0 to CP2.0, please tell it ( Hope it's not 1:1 ).
Next. I just truely don't understand why some are against of conversion by XP.
- The players who are just grab current cap 810 , will have a little amount of extra CP;
- The players which got 1100-1200, will have ~ 150- 250 (still need to grind for cap of 1800);
- The players who are still don't grab 810 CP, will also have some extra CP points to spend;
- The new players who are don't have CP, will gain it in 3 times faster, because of "catch up mechanism";
And everything seems fine. Vet players who are already played a lot will got fair amount of extra CP (we will not jump at once to the cap of 1800), new players and players beyond cap will have "catch up mechanism" , which will help them to gain them CP a lot faster.
However, there is only one kind of players, which are against of scaling by XP. They are: "Vet players who are tired to be over the CAP", i'm pretty sure , that this kind of players don't play PvP on CP campaign, they don't do achievements (or already done) like a "Godslayer", they are simply decorating their homes like in SIMS (and it's cool, i have nothing against homesteading, we are different and everyone should do what he/she like to do), so this kind of players simply will got their CP by doing daily routine. And that's what i don't understand.First, if you will somehow jump over cap of 1800 you still will be able to get 1800 CPs to reach 3600. This is not enough? Second , why this kind of players who like to grind (mb they have thousands of free hours, OK) or players who are decorating houses, so eagerly want to deprives us(75%) of the opportunity of getting extra CP (based on current XP)??? Please answer me to these questions.
Ultimately:
80% are vote for converting CP based on XP. Pretty sure, that if this poll was among all players (not only those who are on the forum), we could be able to add ~5 more percent, but alright let's make an assumption of +- 5%. Even with this assumption min 75% of players will be ignored. ZOS can't JUST IGNORE 3/4 of their community, this is unacceptable.
in my books its not a "completly different system of character progression". its an overhauled system, thats why we call it CP 2.0 and not gafnfluk 1.0 an since it is not a "mistake made by a schoolkid" because your analogy between EUR and USD doesnt check out for me. CPs is the item you get with the currency XP. now the value of the currency changed, but that does not mean we are entitled for any sort of compensation, thats not how it works.
now i have to clarify what kind of player i am: havent done godslayer, havent decorated my house in ages. im doing vet trials and pledges and HMs and that kind of stuff so far far away from the supposedly "one kind of players which are against scaling" but have been accused of worse (elitsm comes to mind)
I am against scaling because it closes the gap between lower CPs and higher CPs. in my books this is a net win, because the pool of players which i can draw from for my activities (vkA PUGs, vSS PUGs, trails with guildmates, HMs with guildmates) increases by alot, so i can benefit from NOT beeing compensated. does it mean it takes me longer to reach cap again? yes. does it mean that the time i will spend to reach the cap again is a better experience for me? also yes.
yes the poll is a fair representation of the community i suppose, but then again, i have voted for the unpoluar point before in my country. and sadly many people feel like they are robbed of something, while i see proposed equity and yes, equity means that some benefit more than others, so a more leveled playingfield can be implemented.0 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Complain more and ZOS will be cap everyone on 1800 CP without possibility to gain any more XP, so next time with new curve noone will be stolen from progress
Don't you even see that whole curve changed so even on very high levels you will have faster progress?
Also if you have 1650 level for example, than you have 1650 level - noone takes anything from. XP is just a tool to measure some progress and give levels, so this tool will be adjusted with time. What you don't understand is fact that what matters, is your level, not your XP. You should be thankful that ZOS even allowed you to get so much high level with soft cap at 810. In many scenarios all vets would be on 810 and only after patch further leveling would be allowed.
But you all have opportunity to level up for future caps - WITH HIGHER XP COST, BECAUSE THAT WAS PRICE FOR LEVELING ABOVE CAP!
So you not only has a option to progress so much, but you also want recompensation for that which is ridiculous and impertinent. You should be like "oh, thanks god that I don't have to start from 810 CP".
PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton2 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭I am against scaling because it closes the gap between lower CPs and higher CPs. in my books this is a net win, because the pool of players which i can draw from for my activities (vkA PUGs, vSS PUGs, trails with guildmates, HMs with guildmates) increases by alot, so i can benefit from NOT beeing compensated. does it mean it takes me longer to reach cap again? yes. does it mean that the time i will spend to reach the cap again is a better experience for me? also yes.
Thanks you for answer.
Based on your reply, I got that you do not want scaling because of the "huge" difference between lower and higher CPs, which could occur due to converting XP. But, let's assume, that they will make scaling based on XP. So player who was 300 CP 1.0 will be, for example, ~325 CP2.0, and because of this new "overhauled system" and it's horizont progression, they will be able to make vet content with you, also they could faster get CPs due to "catch up mechanic"; then player who was 1200 CP1.0, will be 1400 CP, yes the gap between 325 and 1400 are larger than between 300 and 1200, but considering the fact that this system focused on horizont progression more than on vertical, this gap does not affect a lot; first because lower CP players will be able to get CP more faster, second (due to new horizontal progression) the pool of players which you can draw from for your activities still will be as huge as it would be without scaling.
So the gap doesn't contradicts your interests.
Am i wrong?Edited by Lamagrokie on March 3, 2021 10:00AM0 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭Lamagrokie wrote: »I am against scaling because it closes the gap between lower CPs and higher CPs. in my books this is a net win, because the pool of players which i can draw from for my activities (vkA PUGs, vSS PUGs, trails with guildmates, HMs with guildmates) increases by alot, so i can benefit from NOT beeing compensated. does it mean it takes me longer to reach cap again? yes. does it mean that the time i will spend to reach the cap again is a better experience for me? also yes.
Thanks you for answer.
Based on your reply, I got that you do not want scaling because of the "huge" difference between lower and higher CPs, which could occur due to converting XP. But, let's assume, that they will make scaling based on XP. So player who was 300 CP 1.0 will be, for example, ~325 CP2.0, and because of this new "overhauled system" and it's horizont focus progression, they will be able to make vet content with you, also they could faster get CPs due to "catch up mechanic"; then player who was 1200 CP1.0, will be 1400 CP, yes the gap between 325 and 1400 are larger than between 300 and 1200, but considering the fact that this system focused on horizont progression more than on vertical, this gap does not affect a lot; first because lower CP players will be able to get CP more faster, second (due to new horizontal progression) the pool of players which you can draw from for your activities still will be as huge as it would be without scaling.
So the gap doesn't contradicts your interests.
Am i wrong?
well not entirely wrong, the fault however lies in the CP 2.0 system not in you. the problem is that the promised horizontal progression starts at arround 1500 (dont quote me on that, tmbrinks has an exact number). that means: lower end and higher end CPs get compensation, that would push me, 1200 odd now above the treshhold for vertical progression, while the lower ends would be pushed closer towards it, but not above it. this means for me that the container of people i can draw from (because lets face it, im elitist, im not going to run with a 600 CP into vKA /s) is smaller at the beginning and will start to grow a fair ammount later.0 -
Pink_Pixie✭✭✭I wrote this post just under a month ago, and it tends to explain my own position better and perhaps many others players thoughts on the new system. I'm pasting it below as it still rings true to this thread, and I'll add a few additions at the end to further my thoughts on the matter.
"As a pve and pvp player, and being a huge achievement hunter to boot. I have done nearly every quest available in the game, save for a few here and there. That does not include repeatables, and one epilogue quest that requires to be done 150 times for a five point achievement.
I've fished every zone, done every dungeon and trial numerous times to the point I'm tired of doing them again and again. However, the enjoyment I still get comes from pvp and some pve when new quests and such come out. And I am not even CP 1000 yet, I'm currently CP 968 or something wonky like that.
To cut this a little shorter, there won't be much for myself, or perhaps many others to do to gain the required experience to reach a decent amount of CP to be on par with how my only character is currently. I've enjoyed the game, and very much appreciate how every npc is voice acted. But the direction the game is now going, gives me the impression it's becoming like other MMO's.
To name a couple,
Star Trek online (Aka Grind Trek Online)
Star Wars Knights of the republic (Aka SW cash shop)
To bring a end to my little rant so to speak, I have empathy for players that feel they are being robbed, and I for one do not look forward to these new changes. As there will be very little for myself, and others to do, other than grind zombies. If that is the case, I'm sure there is other games out there, that will fit my personal taste."
I feel the current change only reduces the player base, as many are feeling they are being robbed. Their time and work to progress through the game is being lost. Nothing is fair in the change that is coming, nothing that makes me think I want to log on and I'd like to see what is new and enjoy it as much as I did before.
CP 2.0 adds nothing but disappointment for myself and no doubt many others, as I/we have earned something, which has taken many many hours. There has been no reply from the devs on the points many of us have discussed since CP 2.0 was released on PTS. Instead we're met with silence, this only shows that the community is not listened to. As we pay to play this game, and paying for something that does not live up to expectations is not something many of us will do.
Again, my own perspective is not to resist the change from CP 1.0 to 2.0, it's resistance to take away what I rightfully earned, and to do that, is a bad move from Zos. I know people will say "You've lost nothing" and so on, yet, the numbers tell me different. I cannot recoup the experience that is lost by normal means, and must either do repetitive tasks to gain it again. Or failing that, make a new character....which I enjoy playing one, so that choice is not relevant.5 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭
well not entirely wrong, the fault however lies in the CP 2.0 system not in you. the problem is that the promised horizontal progression starts at arround 1500 (dont quote me on that, tmbrinks has an exact number). that means: lower end and higher end CPs get compensation, that would push me, 1200 odd now above the treshhold for vertical progression, while the lower ends would be pushed closer towards it, but not above it. this means for me that the container of people i can draw from (because lets face it, im elitist, im not going to run with a 600 CP into vKA /s) is smaller at the beginning and will start to grow a fair ammount later.
I'm glad that we come to comprehension, that there is some sort of problem (promised horizontal progression) in CP 2.0 system.
Now i want to note that the main point of these discussion and lot of other, not to tell how it MUST be done, but is to propose solution, to show that's something went wrong. Huge amount of text has been written on this topic and this is not because community afraid to be nerfed or grind again, it's because almost everyone knows that CP 2.0 and it's horizontal progression got problems. And this problems need to be solved, however ZOS choose tactic to simply ignore whole community.1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
Because YOU were able to continue to earn CP above the cap (which many other games don't even let you do), albeit with a 50% penalty. And now you're getting all of those.
It works like taxes in any country with a progressive tax structure (which is many of them). The more you make the higher the percentage penalty (taxes) you pay. When they change the tax code (either to account for inflation or because of a different viewpoint) you don't suddenly get back all the taxes you paid. Why would it be the same here?The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
you dont really need 1500. vertprog tapers off quite a bit before. you'll be close enough to qualify for most stuff much earlier.
and lets not forget the old 810 is the new 1160.
and zos makes money off vets too. They are about to loose 200 bucks a year from me.
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)3 -
Sju✭✭✭✭Lamagrokie wrote: »
First
Why is this still hard to understand, that CP 2.0 completely different system of character progression? They have only similar names, that's all.
Problem is that you just keep ignoring this fact.
Since these are two completely different systems, there must be some sort of transition between them. Convert CP 1:1 it's a mistake that can be made by a schoolkid.
When we are talking about any transition from one system to another, there is one obvious example that completely describe this process:
if someone want to exchange USD$ to EUR€ , there will be some exchange rate (1 EUR -> 1.2126 USD)
Therefore, a method was proposed for converting CP based on your current XP. If you got better idea how to move from CP1.0 to CP2.0, please tell it ( Hope it's not 1:1 ).
Next. I just truely don't understand why some are against of conversion by XP.
- The players who are just grab current cap 810 , will have a little amount of extra CP;
- The players which got 1100-1200, will have ~ 150- 250 (still need to grind for cap of 1800);
- The players who are still don't grab 810 CP, will also have some extra CP points to spend;
- The new players who are don't have CP, will gain it in 3 times faster, because of "catch up mechanism";
And everything seems fine. Vet players who are already played a lot will got fair amount of extra CP (we will not jump at once to the cap of 1800), new players and players beyond cap will have "catch up mechanism" , which will help them to gain them CP a lot faster.
However, there is only one kind of players, which are against of scaling by XP. They are: "Vet players who are tired to be over the CAP", i'm pretty sure , that this kind of players don't play PvP on CP campaign, they don't do achievements (or already done) like a "Godslayer", they are simply decorating their homes like in SIMS (and it's cool, i have nothing against homesteading, we are different and everyone should do what he/she like to do), so this kind of players simply will got their CP by doing daily routine. And that's what i don't understand.First, if you will somehow jump over cap of 1800 you still will be able to get 1800 CPs to reach 3600. This is not enough? Second , why this kind of players who like to grind (mb they have thousands of free hours, OK) or players who are decorating houses, so eagerly want to deprives us(75%) of the opportunity of getting extra CP (based on current XP)??? Please answer me to these questions.
Ultimately:
80% are vote for converting CP based on XP. Pretty sure, that if this poll was among all players (not only those who are on the forum), we could be able to add ~5 more percent, but alright let's make an assumption of +- 5%. Even with this assumption min 75% of players will be ignored. ZOS can't JUST IGNORE 3/4 of their community, this is unacceptable.
201 players is 3/4 of the entire community? I think the term is "vocal minority".1 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭
201 players is 3/4 of the entire community? I think the term is "vocal minority".
250 respondents are enough to understand the whole situation, with further growth of votes this 80% will vary within +-5%. Main reason we have only 250 votes is because a lot of players don't visit forum at all, they just simply don't know about upcoming changes. As i said if this poll was among all players we would have the approximately the same percentage as it's on this poll.
Edited by Lamagrokie on March 3, 2021 2:09PM2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
you dont really need 1500. vertprog tapers off quite a bit before. you'll be close enough to qualify for most stuff much earlier.
and lets not forget the old 810 is the new 1160.
and zos makes money off vets too. They are about to loose 200 bucks a year from me.
I've been saying that 1160 is the current 810 level in every thread on this... and have been lambasted, yelled at, cursed at, gotten hateful DMs on here for saying that. Accused of lying, deceiving, you name it.
Considering most "long-term" players are in the 1200-1300 range (stated in the ESO Live chapter video), I don't see what the issue is then.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
you dont really need 1500. vertprog tapers off quite a bit before. you'll be close enough to qualify for most stuff much earlier.
and lets not forget the old 810 is the new 1160.
and zos makes money off vets too. They are about to loose 200 bucks a year from me.
I've been saying that 1160 is the current 810 level in every thread on this... and have been lambasted, yelled at, cursed at, gotten hateful DMs on here for saying that. Accused of lying, deceiving, you name it.
Considering most "long-term" players are in the 1200-1300 range (stated in the ESO Live chapter video), I don't see what the issue is then.
Xp that it took to get you to 810 now takes you to 1160 is what I meant by that.
You mean sth else I believe.
The issue for this long term player is that horizontal progression is the cool part. And I would be there if zos didnt just throw out 60% (=2500hous playtime) of my xp.
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
you dont really need 1500. vertprog tapers off quite a bit before. you'll be close enough to qualify for most stuff much earlier.
and lets not forget the old 810 is the new 1160.
and zos makes money off vets too. They are about to loose 200 bucks a year from me.
I've been saying that 1160 is the current 810 level in every thread on this... and have been lambasted, yelled at, cursed at, gotten hateful DMs on here for saying that. Accused of lying, deceiving, you name it.
Considering most "long-term" players are in the 1200-1300 range (stated in the ESO Live chapter video), I don't see what the issue is then.
People should not be abusive to you due to disagreement. People, don't DM tmbrinks with abuse. Not cool.
Concerning your stipulation: I'm not sure how you got to that number. Using the online calculators, my experience was that in order to spec my main to where it has equivalent ability to where I am now in the blue tree, I figured that I needed somewhere between 500-600 CP available in that tree, assuming that I am only unlocking the skills that I use most often (full disclosure: I don't have the original number, I couldn't save my calculations, and it's possible that I made mistakes, but that was where I landed).
But even if that's so, anyone at 810 and below 1160 is still being punished. Even if only one person gets screwed, the current solution is still unfair given the relationship between intended prior effort and future effort as they relate to progression. The response that I anticipate is that you can't make everyone happy, (I definitely think you can get closer to the mark than 20 percent of the forum community), but if the issue is ZOS failing to meet their own stated objective of avoiding a sense of "player depowerment", what they are doing now is clearly not acceptable.1 -
Sju✭✭✭✭Why are the same "zos threw out my playtime/stole my hours" crowd not asking for compensation with the new wayshrine cost reduction passive, or the passive that gives you more gold per chest? Surely all that money you could have saved/made in the past 6 years should be paid back to you?2
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ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I Spend real time to get my EXP.
I do not care if other player can now faster get 1400 and have the same stats, but i do not want to lose my time i spend !
Even if my current CP becomes 3000 and it will be justthe same asnew players 1400 level he get fast - i spend my real time on EXP ing to get my EXP points and i do not want to lose any of it, becouse it is real time i spend to it !
So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.
You want the new player to see this daunting "grind" to 1500 CP ahead of them and quit before they ever get into the game (which to ZoS means they never pay... and remember that this is a consumer product, the purpose is for the company to make money).
you dont really need 1500. vertprog tapers off quite a bit before. you'll be close enough to qualify for most stuff much earlier.
and lets not forget the old 810 is the new 1160.
and zos makes money off vets too. They are about to loose 200 bucks a year from me.
I've been saying that 1160 is the current 810 level in every thread on this... and have been lambasted, yelled at, cursed at, gotten hateful DMs on here for saying that. Accused of lying, deceiving, you name it.
Considering most "long-term" players are in the 1200-1300 range (stated in the ESO Live chapter video), I don't see what the issue is then.
Dammit! I knew I was missing a trick here.
May I please send you irrational, hateful, profanity filled DMs?
I cannot do threatening, I have yet to take that course, but I could do spiteful instead?Edited by ApoAlaia on March 3, 2021 3:20PM0