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Should CP 1.0 to CP 2.0 conversion should be done by exp instead of CPs ?
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Yes because it would be fair to players in general. Players play the game and gatehred XP in the process. Some did it more efficient than others. Most think about veterans that get alot of CP from a conversion, but what about newer players?
If conversion would happen based on XP players that are now CP500 would become CP700. Players that are CP810 would become CP1130. All of these lower level players would be dragged closer to the vertical progression cap and would have their progress so far respected and it would help them. Veterans on the other hand would overshoot the vertical progerssion, but since they only get options but not power this way it wouldnt realy matter.
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭Seems like the easiest answer to this is for the game to give you whichever value results in the highest CP value.
It's a one time thing when the new patch comes out.
How hard can be it be to calculate 2 numbers and give you the higher one.
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Seems like the easiest answer to this is for the game to give you whichever value results in the highest CP value.
It's a one time thing when the new patch comes out.
How hard can be it be to calculate 2 numbers and give you the higher one.
Considering they've changed the calculation at least a dozen times, it's a pretty complicated calculation.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)Yes because it would be fair to players in general. Players play the game and gatehred XP in the process. Some did it more efficient than others. Most think about veterans that get alot of CP from a conversion, but what about newer players?
If conversion would happen based on XP players that are now CP500 would become CP700. Players that are CP810 would become CP1130. All of these lower level players would be dragged closer to the vertical progression cap and would have their progress so far respected and it would help them. Veterans on the other hand would overshoot the vertical progerssion, but since they only get options but not power this way it wouldnt realy matter.
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Not realy because the curve is flat enought for them to quickly catch up. Only difference would be that they would need the same XP to catch up, not half of it.5 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)[Edited by remosito on February 17, 2021 2:54PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0
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Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Why? does the new CP curve only exist when it benefits your argument?
Surely you can see than lowering the overall XP required to reach cap lets newer players catch up quicker WITHOUT having to lower existing players earned XP in the process aswell.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Why? does the new CP curve only exist when it benefits your argument?
Surely you can see than lowering the overall XP required to reach cap lets newer players catch up quicker WITHOUT having to lower existing players earned XP in the process aswell.
If every previous XP is earned like it's on the new system, new players are just as far behind as they would be if they hadn't changed a thing. Simple mathematics. The innumeracy is staggering to me
The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points3 -
Maggusemm✭✭✭We need a reconversion based on XP thats clear. So CP 1200 should be around 1800 now. And then give people more useful stars for passives to slot.2
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Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Not a fan of handoutsJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
SGT_Courtney✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)Either way really. Lot’s of us vets have a butt load of the 150% scrolls and writ vouchers stashed away. With the jesters festival and anniversary coming up it will probably be a quick 1 or 2 day hardcore grind to hit the 1800 soft cap.
I think if anything they should go the other way and convert XP down so it doesn’t seem as far to go for newcomers. Newbs don’t read natch potes, forums, or follow content creators. They just see huge numbers and say no thank you. A new girl casually playing for a few weeks just questing and having fun is going to look at her level 27 Nord magsorc wearing vendor trash armor getting demolished by a delve mob and then see an optional CP 1800+ Plow through and want to catch up. But then she will think of the past 2 weeks and how little progress she has made and believe it is impossible to ever reach 1800 CP let alone 3600 and just nope out.Edited by SGT_Courtney on February 17, 2021 8:17PM8 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Why? does the new CP curve only exist when it benefits your argument?
Surely you can see than lowering the overall XP required to reach cap lets newer players catch up quicker WITHOUT having to lower existing players earned XP in the process aswell.
If every previous XP is earned like it's on the new system, new players are just as far behind as they would be if they hadn't changed a thing. Simple mathematics. The innumeracy is staggering to me
You completely ignored time for this. If CP are not recalculated (so we keep what we have) lower level players will be XP wise closer to veterans as a side effect for cheaper CP. That part is correct. However if you look a bit into the future and take 1 years then the gap between newer players and veterans still gets bigger as veterans know exactly how to progress most efficiently. So all you do is shift the CP gap from now to later. Recalculation will just create the gap right now instead of masking it for a year.
Recalculation is also an important argument for lower CP players. Everyone that just finsihed the 810 cap now only has 50% of the CP they need. If they would get a recalculation they would end up with ~75%. So their time investment for rereaching the gap would be lower. The same is also true for players that have more than the current gap but less than 1.2k.
This shows the issue nicely as you are finsihed now, but are not even close after the update hits. Furthermore it makes less sense for players to do activities to gatehr more CP has the work is worth less in 3 weeks and we already know it.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Why? does the new CP curve only exist when it benefits your argument?
Surely you can see than lowering the overall XP required to reach cap lets newer players catch up quicker WITHOUT having to lower existing players earned XP in the process aswell.
If every previous XP is earned like it's on the new system, new players are just as far behind as they would be if they hadn't changed a thing. Simple mathematics. The innumeracy is staggering to me
You completely ignored time for this. If CP are not recalculated (so we keep what we have) lower level players will be XP wise closer to veterans as a side effect for cheaper CP. That part is correct. However if you look a bit into the future and take 1 years then the gap between newer players and veterans still gets bigger as veterans know exactly how to progress most efficiently. So all you do is shift the CP gap from now to later. Recalculation will just create the gap right now instead of masking it for a year.
Recalculation is also an important argument for lower CP players. Everyone that just finsihed the 810 cap now only has 50% of the CP they need. If they would get a recalculation they would end up with ~75%. So their time investment for rereaching the gap would be lower. The same is also true for players that have more than the current gap but less than 1.2k.
This shows the issue nicely as you are finsihed now, but are not even close after the update hits. Furthermore it makes less sense for players to do activities to gatehr more CP has the work is worth less in 3 weeks and we already know it.
So, now we're down to "veteran players are more efficient at grinding" as the argument?
I reiterate, you only need ~1100 CP to have all your slots for your role (so, they're already ~70% of the way there). With the change to the curve, on the "time" basis you have stated, that 810 will be to 1100 CP in less time it took them to go from 700 to 810, due to the reduced amount of XP needed to get there.
Also. I AM GLAD THE NEWER PLAYERS ARE CLOSER TO THE VET PLAYERS!!! and will have an easier time getting there as well!!! Since the XP needed to get to ~1100 CP in the new system is about 20 million less XP than what it takes to get to 810 currently on live!
(And yes, people are to save their Scrolls and master writs for the next 2 weeks... don't think that's game breaking)
I guess it's just upsetting to me that people were whining. ZoS made a change that DRASTICALLY reduced the XP needed (while admittingly not giving people arbitrary levels), and everybody is like "great, now still scale me on that nice new generous XP scaling."The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points4 -
Flamebait✭✭✭I think I should go sue the shop I get coffee at when I am on the way to work every day. I have gone there for years and bought a coffee every morning, but with things slowing down they are selling coffee for like 20% less. They owe me the money I spent while it was higher priced and I will whine and cry until they recognize that I am owed the money I spent even though I got exactly what I bought for that money at that time.
Same argument as the people crying they need more are making. You never gained large amounts of XP, you spent XP buying CP points, it even says that right now, you don't have 300 million xp you have 1.7 million to your next CP point. You got exactly what you were offered and now you are crying because after years someone else gets a new offer, which applies to you as well.3 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)
If they did a 180 and lowered the cap to 510 would you be arguing that you have too much CP now, and that they should take some away from you so that your experience earned matched the new grindier CP XP scale?0 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Lapin_Logic wrote: »
Dear Dude,
Could you be so kind then
to calculate what would be
the exact number of
champion points needed
for a stamina Dragonknight
to be able to solo PvP
against multiple enemies
with similar success as
we have now on Live?
Tanks in advance.
Dear Dude in a Tank, Rambo is a movie and the battle of "300" was a niche meta that isn't viable in the current patch of Real Life Offline, I don't see why 1 player should consistently "Solo" a siege Army, it breaks my immersion..
But since you asked, I would estimate about the same number of CP as your equally as "Nerfed" opponents seeing as it is a server wide change not limited to just your account.. I checked it on UESP build editor and it looked at me while I did it so you know it's real.
So, you pretty much dont have a number on your mind.
720 CP maxes out your "Purple constellations" in the Blue tree for combat and defence with 10 points in stamina, there is more damage to be had but this is the majority of it.
so yeah, an 810 will feel how an 810 player is supposed to feel, obviously now more balanced seeing as ZOS have lowered the "ceiling and raised the floor" as is their want.
Guaranteed youtube will be full of "Unkillable DK PVP Builds" in week one, bet they are all running the same gear they are now, 7th, fury, crimson, bloodspawn etc etc etc0 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Yes because it would be fair to players in general. Players play the game and gatehred XP in the process. Some did it more efficient than others. Most think about veterans that get alot of CP from a conversion, but what about newer players?
If conversion would happen based on XP players that are now CP500 would become CP700. Players that are CP810 would become CP1130. All of these lower level players would be dragged closer to the vertical progression cap and would have their progress so far respected and it would help them. Veterans on the other hand would overshoot the vertical progerssion, but since they only get options but not power this way it wouldnt realy matter.
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Not realy because the curve is flat enought for them to quickly catch up. Only difference would be that they would need the same XP to catch up, not half of it.
You earned CP, XP was just a means to count your progress to the next CP.
It's pointless giving you 10 - 20 CP a day just for cleaning your codpiece and feeding your horse leaving an RP account on cap CP after a month and ultramax CP cap (extra CP they couldn't use) after 6 months then joining your PUG run expecting them to be Fengrush or Alcast.
That is why you had to "Earn" your CP over a set time, regardless of if the "CP cap" was 160CP, 500CP, 660CP, 720CP or 810cp, if ZOS wanted you to take 9 months to get to Cap then it didn't matter what the cap was or how much XP you earned as long as it took you roughly that 9 months or however long they arbitrarily expected you to play, that is why the "Curve is adjusted", it is solely to Stop you from gaining CP faster than the devs intended.
Face it, if you had 20660 CP you would be wanting them to put something to spend it on and to preclude them "noobs" from getting them.... Yet simultaneously complaining that LFG is full of scrubs and fake DPS/Tanks.
TLDR, they are giving you your CP that you have, XP was just the barrier, in Market terms we call this "Inflation"0 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)Lapin_Logic wrote: »Yes because it would be fair to players in general. Players play the game and gatehred XP in the process. Some did it more efficient than others. Most think about veterans that get alot of CP from a conversion, but what about newer players?
If conversion would happen based on XP players that are now CP500 would become CP700. Players that are CP810 would become CP1130. All of these lower level players would be dragged closer to the vertical progression cap and would have their progress so far respected and it would help them. Veterans on the other hand would overshoot the vertical progerssion, but since they only get options but not power this way it wouldnt realy matter.
And somebody who is brand new is now even further behind.
Not realy because the curve is flat enought for them to quickly catch up. Only difference would be that they would need the same XP to catch up, not half of it.
You earned CP, XP was just a means to count your progress to the next CP.
It's pointless giving you 10 - 20 CP a day just for cleaning your codpiece and feeding your horse leaving an RP account on cap CP after a month and ultramax CP cap (extra CP they couldn't use) after 6 months then joining your PUG run expecting them to be Fengrush or Alcast.
That is why you had to "Earn" your CP over a set time, regardless of if the "CP cap" was 160CP, 500CP, 660CP, 720CP or 810cp, if ZOS wanted you to take 9 months to get to Cap then it didn't matter what the cap was or how much XP you earned as long as it took you roughly that 9 months or however long they arbitrarily expected you to play, that is why the "Curve is adjusted", it is solely to Stop you from gaining CP faster than the devs intended.
Face it, if you had 20660 CP you would be wanting them to put something to spend it on and to preclude them "noobs" from getting them.... Yet simultaneously complaining that LFG is full of scrubs and fake DPS/Tanks.
TLDR, they are giving you your CP that you have, XP was just the barrier, in Market terms we call this "Inflation"
I think the more accurate term would be devaluation.4 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)Lapin_Logic wrote: »It's pointless giving you 10 - 20 CP a day just for cleaning your codpiece and feeding your horse leaving an RP account on cap CP after a month and ultramax CP cap (extra CP they couldn't use) after 6 months then joining your PUG run expecting them to be Fengrush or Alcast.
Your point about the speed of CP makes no sense. You comparing leveling speed with performance. Gaining CP is an automated process. Just the speed varies depending on how efficient you do it. If someone is efficient it doesnt mean hes good at the game in any way. Besides that you reach the point where players close in on the cap anyways. Its the same with PvP Ranks. You can be grand overloard and still be a potatoe in PvP.Lapin_Logic wrote: »Face it, if you had 20660 CP you would be wanting them to put something to spend it on and to preclude them "noobs" from getting them.... Yet simultaneously complaining that LFG is full of scrubs and fake DPS/Tanks.
This will happen anyways. Its a question of when, not if. Do you think that the leveling speed of CP has any impact on this? We will not see less fake DDs just because CP leveling is slower.Lapin_Logic wrote: »TLDR, they are giving you your CP that you have, XP was just the barrier, in Market terms we call this "Inflation"
Its devaluation. Inflation would be if something becomes more expansive over time (your currency becomes worth less). Devaluation is when something becomes cheaper over time (your currency becomes worth more). Since CP get cheaper its the latter one.
The important part that you entirely miss is XP sources. The whole discussion is not entirely about whether or not CP should be recalculated. Its also about one time XP sources. If you are a new player you can do all sorts of activities and still progress. You can do quests, achievments, repeatable stuff and grinding. In some cases you can easily combine them. For veteran players the first 2 sources are often mostly used up. So we got the XP, but we dont benefit from it. At the same time we cannot use the source again. Leaving us with grinding or repeatable stuff as only option.
5 -
Pink_Pixie✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)I voted yes, it should be converted to the experience we've earned because......
The time that has been put into the game, and anyone that argues "You don't lose anything." clearly argues against the loss of time which is, something we'll never ever get back.
XXX amount of hours played, should still be XXX amount of experience earned, gold earned, gold materials wasted and so on. Many players have spent so many hours on here, and taking away what is earned fairly, can be and is, a very big mistake.Edited by Pink_Pixie on February 18, 2021 10:40AM3 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.0 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....Edited by Ringod123 on February 18, 2021 5:23PM4 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
Those new players just have put less time into the game. If that's not something that should matter, why do they change the CP cap to 3600!!!! So they obviously want CP to matter, old compared to new players. Also, people at 400 cp will also profit from using gained XP instead of CP. You could also give a huge enlightenment buff for people below a certain CP (preferably with some sort of formula added to it, so that the lower CP you have the more you profit.)0 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
What? If it takes me another 2k hours to get from say 810 to 1800 in the new system, then it still going to take a new player 2K hours to get from 810 to 1800 too, thats on top of how long it took them to get to 810 in the first place, which is quicker for them than it was for me.
How does not converting my CP by total XP gained help new players reach 1800 quicker?3 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
New players will have to invest less time to catch up with vet players in terms of XP gain anyway. Literally no one builds their argument on a basis that new players should suffer as much as we did.
The situation we are in now will lead to questions like "What was your CP prior to the update?" New players will be denied places in end game groups because it will be easy for them to just grind XP and get to 1000's faster. But if the CPs are converted there will be a natural division between vet and new players, and there still will be an accelerated rate of XP gain.Edited by nukk3r on February 18, 2021 6:07PM2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
What? If it takes me another 2k hours to get from say 810 to 1800 in the new system, then it still going to take a new player 2K hours to get from 810 to 1800 too, thats on top of how long it took them to get to 810 in the first place, which is quicker for them than it was for me.
How does not converting my CP by total XP gained help new players reach 1800 quicker?
Exactly, they're not as far behind in terms of "time".
I can't believe I have to actually explain this... I teach math all day and now I have to do it again.
I don't know the actual times, I'm guessing, I just play the game and am at 2k CP. Lots of time spent in trials that give very little XP.
Let's say it takes 1k hours to get to CP 1000 now. 2k more to get to CP 2000. 4k more to get to 3000. and 6k more to get to 3600 from there.
Under the new system it takes 500 hours to get to CP 1000. 1k to get to CP 2000. 2k to get to 3000. and 3k to get to 3600. (the curve is cut down by half)
If they move you from 1000 CP to 1500 CP. You have about 500 hours to get to CP2000 from there (the established 'cap' people keep claiming, which I don't agree with, but I digress)
If they don't move you from 1000 CP to 1500. You have about 1000 hours to get there.
Imagine a new player. In scenario 1, they are 1000 play-time hours behind you (500 to get to 1,000, then another 500 to get to 1500). They need to play 1000 more hours than you to "catch up" to you... to reach "parity"
In scenario 2, they are 500 play-time hours behind you (500 to get to 1,000). They need to play 500 more hours than you to "catch up" to you... to reach "parity".
Again, I'm guessing at the time it would take.
It doesn't change the time it takes for a new player to get to 1800 any quicker... it just keeps the gap between players more reasonable, so they aren't so far behind that it becomes an impossible task to catch up.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
New players will have to invest less time to catch up with vet players in terms of XP gain anyway. Literally no one builds their argument on a basis that new players should suffer as much as we did.
The situation we are in now will lead to questions like "What was your CP prior to the update?" New players will be denied places in end game groups because it will be easy for them to just grind XP and get to 1000's faster. But if the CPs are converted there will be a natural division between vet and new players, and there still will be an accelerated rate of XP gain.
No it won't. By giving the XP you will create that division by moving players so far up the scale that new players will find it almost impossible to catch up.
By giving everybody their "previously earn XP" you are literally taking away the entire purpose of adjusting the curve. Which is to allow newer players to catch up.Edited by tmbrinks on February 18, 2021 7:33PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
What? If it takes me another 2k hours to get from say 810 to 1800 in the new system, then it still going to take a new player 2K hours to get from 810 to 1800 too, thats on top of how long it took them to get to 810 in the first place, which is quicker for them than it was for me.
How does not converting my CP by total XP gained help new players reach 1800 quicker?
Exactly, they're not as far behind in terms of "time".
I can't believe I have to actually explain this... I teach math all day and now I have to do it again.
I don't know the actual times, I'm guessing, I just play the game and am at 2k CP. Lots of time spent in trials that give very little XP.
Let's say it takes 1k hours to get to CP 1000 now. 2k more to get to CP 2000. 4k more to get to 3000. and 6k more to get to 3600 from there.
Under the new system it takes 500 hours to get to CP 1000. 1k to get to CP 2000. 2k to get to 3000. and 3k to get to 3600. (the curve is cut down by half)
If they move you from 1000 CP to 1500 CP. You have about 500 hours to get to CP2000 from there (the established 'cap' people keep claiming, which I don't agree with, but I digress)
If they don't move you from 1000 CP to 1500. You have about 1000 hours to get there.
Imagine a new player. In scenario 1, they are 1000 play-time hours behind you (500 to get to 1,000, then another 500 to get to 1500). They need to play 1000 more hours than you to "catch up" to you... to reach "parity"
In scenario 2, they are 500 play-time hours behind you (500 to get to 1,000). They need to play 500 more hours than you to "catch up" to you... to reach "parity".
Again, I'm guessing at the time it would take.
It doesn't change the time it takes for a new player to get to 1800 any quicker... it just keeps the gap between players more reasonable, so they aren't so far behind that it becomes an impossible task to catch up.
But in your example you say it would take a new player half the time to fill the gap to where I am currently at to get parity with me, rather than the actual new cap where everyone reaches parity. What good is it to a new player to need half the hours to catch up to my current CP (in terms of parity) when i'm also still earning CP to the new cap, they will effectively never be at parity with me until I am at parity with everyone else (at cp1800) and they are too, or I stop playing for a while.Edited by Ringod123 on February 18, 2021 8:12PM1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »I think this all somewhat depends on how you look at it.
What if instead of the change to the cap curve ZOS instead simply said that they were going to just over double all xp gained by level 50 characters from this point on, like extra enlightenment. Or added another easily available 2.5 xp buff that is multiplicative with all the current ones.
This is functionally the same as what they have done (barring exact multiplier and some slight non-linearities in the xp curve).
But if they made the change in this manner instead, would players ask for for their previously earned xp to be doubled? Saying that “but that’s how much xp I would have earned if you had made this change at the start of the game”. Seems somewhat unreasonable in that context.
Did everyone ask for retroactive xp to be granted when ambrosia and it’s more powerful variant were added? Or when ZOS started giving away all the free xp scrolls as daily rewards? If these had existed in such availability when I started playing I would have earned way more xp than I have. Should I be given free xp as if I had been using them for the entire time I have been playing, simply because they exist now? Doesn’t sound right. And is directly analogous to this change.
So I guess looking at it in this way it makes sense to me that our cp would stay the same. I don’t see why a change in the rate of CP gain should be retro-active.
Although it’s not like I would be upset if they did rescale, I just don’t see why it’s necessary.
So in your eyes it's perfectly OK that players like me, who it took roughly 2.5K hours to reach parity in CP enabled PvP, will now have that parity taken away from us and will have to put in another 2-3k hours of XP grind just to regain the parity we already had earned under the original system? If the cap was raised by 30, or hell even 300, this wouldn't be as bad, but when the effective raise in CP cap is 1000, all in 1 go, and the "conversion" effectively removes earned XP from the vast majority of the players, then clearly they havn't thought things through.
So 5k+ hours playtime needed to reach parity with people that have played longer than you is acceptable?
How on earth is that supposed to lure new players in? in 6-7 year i've only put in 3.5k hours....
because if you shift it... those new players will need to put in those same 3.5k hours to reach "parity" with YOU.
By NOT giving you the XP, they can reach that parity in about 2k hours.
How is it acceptable that new players would have to grind so much to have parity with YOU?
New players will have to invest less time to catch up with vet players in terms of XP gain anyway. Literally no one builds their argument on a basis that new players should suffer as much as we did.
The situation we are in now will lead to questions like "What was your CP prior to the update?" New players will be denied places in end game groups because it will be easy for them to just grind XP and get to 1000's faster. But if the CPs are converted there will be a natural division between vet and new players, and there still will be an accelerated rate of XP gain.
No it won't. By giving the XP you will create that division by moving players so far up the scale that new players will find it almost impossible to catch up.
By giving everybody their "previously earn XP" you are literally taking away the entire purpose of adjusting the curve. Which is to allow newer players to catch up.
Will they be able to catch up in terms of player skill? Will the DPS be there, will they keep good uptime on buffs and debuffs, will they hold aggro? If not, they will be kicked and it will be more divisive for the community.0
This discussion has been closed.