VaranisArano wrote: »

I am, however, extremely wary of players who deny, minimize, or justify the racism, xenophobia, slavery, and supremacist teaching of those races as part of their roleplaying...especially when they frequently seem to glorify or revel in those aspects, coupled with the manifest unwillingness to say those things are morally wrong in the real world

VaranisArano wrote: »

I like the Dunmer. I like the Altmer.

I am, however, extremely wary of players who deny, minimize, or justify the racism, xenophobia, slavery, and supremacist teaching of those races as part of their roleplaying...especially when they frequently seem to glorify or revel in those aspects, coupled with the manifest unwillingness to say those things are morally wrong in the real world or the unwillingness to consider the situation from the point of view of Dunmer/Altmer victims.

Its okay to like problematic things. That doesn't mean there aren't problems that shouldn't be glorified.

Maybe its my D&D roleplaying background speaking here, but I can accept a great deal of in-character nastiness, if you are willing to act, converse, and debate like a decent person out-of-character. Acknowledging out-of-character that slavery, racism, xenophobia, and supremacist actions are bad seems like a really low bar to clear.

Dunmer/Altmer fans who won't get "out-of-character" long enough to acknowledge the harm those races do to other in-universe or the harm those beliefs/actions have done to others in the real world skeeve me out. I suppose the ones who aren't outright trolls and edgelords will take that as a compliment to their roleplaying, but truth be told, I pity them. It takes a certain amount if commitment to roleplay a jerk in-character to such an extent that other roleplayers are left feeling like someone is an out-of-character jerk, but they manage it.

coop500 wrote: »

I'm not saying ALL Dunmer fans are like this, but with how popular they are it does worry me a little... ? Like I'm sorry if that's offensive but it worries me when people embrace these things.

Lots of sarcastic comments on this thread that totally take the concept out of proportion. There's having normal interest in dark elf culture and stuff and then there's acting like it's 100% cool and nothing is wrong with roleplaying it with WAY too much glee.

Varana wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I'm kind of specialising in Roman Antiquity, professionally. The Romans had slaves, and still they're a fascinating society that contributed a lot to human civilisation. Slavery is a constant of human societies - including today, though a lot less so (fortunately). You can find a culture interesting, even like it, even though they had a dark side. Most civilisations have that. The Elder Scrolls is a role playing game. You play a role - i.e. someone else than yourself.

That said, the game TES3: Morrowind is basically the foundation of that whole Dark Elf allure. Never before in TES and never again has a culture been shown in similar depth and originality. Dark Elves in TES are not a copy of a real-world model (like the Nords who are, for the most part, cliché Saga Vikings), and are, in fact, very far from any culture on earth.

Thousand-year old wizards residing in mushroom towers, overlooking lava pools while an ash storm is raging, clad in chitin armour and dining on jelly made from giant insects before levitating to their study where they will conjure a dremora and explore the secrets of even more alien worlds.

Reed huts in a foggy village where red-eyed, ashen-skinned farmers grow salt rice in the damp swamps and tend to their insectoid queen who provides them with giant eggs, while fighting off predators that have either too many or too few legs, bowing their heads when passing by the manor of their lord, built from mouldy stone and with small, dark-green windows.

A priest, firm in her belief in a Living God (whom she has seen in the flesh, a few weeks ago in their annual parade), bowing to the sternly masked keepers of the peace of a militant church, a moon motionless in the sky as a constant reminder of her God's manifest power, while she is caring for the downtrodden who flock to the city in the hope of a better life, and communes with the spirits of her ancestors.

And yes, the noble lady who whips her slaves till they bleed, and afterwards leaves her home made from the shell of a giant crab to meet with shady figures in an abandoned ruin - dark, bloody red stone with crooked angles and alien protrusions - to discuss the assassination of a political rival's children because he embarrassed her in the council of their house.

The barefoot ashlander driving his herd of giant floating jellyfish, bright-blue and green and deadly poisonous when angered, through a barren wasteland of molten rock and sulfurous pools and dead trees, looking out for rogue atronachs and mindless, deformed corprus zombies and the high-pitched screams of the flying menace, passing by the technological marvels of a brass ruin where steam and souls still turn and screak.

And so much more.
Dunmer culture and lore, as shown in Morrowind, was so spectacularly and gloriously unique - with all its weirdness and flaws and nasty sides and hidden beauty - that this game still today, twenty years later, makes the Dunmer the most interesting of all of Tamriel's cultures.
It is a harsh and brutal culture. I would very much not want to live in Morrowind. But its creation is such an awesome achievement and the main reason why I love the Elder Scrolls.

Varana wrote: »

On the other hand, Dunmer seem to attract a whole lot of stupid edgelordiness (nice word, Varanis ) who hide behind the "playing a Dunmer" thing to randomly spout deeply ... unpleasant stuff in public conversations.

You're not "roleplaying a Dark Elf" if proclaiming that Argonians should be slaves or dead, is all that you do. Or even just other random bits of hatred towards whoever. Doing just that, is not roleplaying. Unless you also play out a lot of other stuff that makes up a Dunmer person, it's showing you in a quite non-flattering light if you use "I'm a Dunmer" as an excuse to be trolling, edgy, or a wannabe edgy teenage troll.

And I can understand coop500 that this kind of behaviour makes Dunmer a bit off-putting sometimes. Or rather, humans playing Dunmer. Fantasy racism is fine in the context of the fantasy world. It does have a tendency to spill over into out-of-character interactions, sometimes, and then it's not fine. So while coop's first comment may have led to some misunderstanding, they're not entirely wrong about what they actually meant. That issue isn't really about in-game Dunmer, it's about players.