New CP system is horrible and might kill the game

Myrddin1357 · January 2021

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Myrddin1357 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Pts templates only have 810 CP, so yeah, can't even test that properly...

Odovacar wrote: »

I'm not on PTS but I'm a little surprised they opened the flood gates straight away to 3600. I'm not quite sure what Finn and the team were thinking with that thought process...Maybe they feel if you're a loner and don't play competitive endgame you can pony up to your "new companion" and enjoy ESO just like the rest, who knows right?

I'm interested in hearing more feedback from the PTS testers but everything I've seen so far seems to be pretty dismal. What would you say (if anyone even knows yet ) would be a nice CP level for endgame vet DLC trials at this current state?

Yeah I agree. Unlocking more CP after every update was something to look forward to . Now I'll be just looking at CP3600 cap and thinking what a noob I am!

I was hyped after the reveal but now I just hope this new system is in some kind of working condition before launch. It is clear this first of PTS is a wash as testing cant really be done on the CP system.

JanTanhide · January 2021

I like the new CP tree. It has a lot of choices and you can set it up for a very specific build. Unlocking the CP to 3600 is a great incentive to play the game.

I spent a good amount of time on the PTS last night adjusting a Mag Sorc build and really had a good time running through Auridon on my Vampire.

Going to be a lot of fun when this goes live!

JanTanhide · January 2021

Maxx7410 wrote: »

if i do a PTS install i can use my toons to try? because if i have to power level it will take forever

Yes. Your characters are copied onto the PTS from your position a day or two ago. You CAN start a new build if you have an open slot but why?

BlissfulDeluge · January 2021

Remove CP altogether, increase all stats to account for differences between CP and non-CP, and reintroduce vet ranks (with vet ranks made account-wide), or remove vet ranks altogether, while converting all gear and materials above level 50 to level 50.

Boom, problem solved, no more archaic champion points system.

Coming from a player with 1831 CP.

JinMori · January 2021

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Remove CP altogether, increase all stats to account for differences between CP and non-CP, and reintroduce vet ranks (with vet ranks made account-wide), or remove vet ranks altogether, while converting all gear and materials above level 50 to level 50.

Boom, problem solved, no more archaic champion points system.

Coming from a player with 1831 CP.

I definitely disagree, anyway, the problem here is not even cp itself, is how they approach the game. If they don't fix that, the game will always be decent but never actually good or great.

I think a game with no progression system just becomes really boring after a while.

UnKnowNKiLLeRR · January 2021

JanTanhide wrote: »

I like the new CP tree. It has a lot of choices and you can set it up for a very specific build. Unlocking the CP to 3600 is a great incentive to play the game.

I spent a good amount of time on the PTS last night adjusting a Mag Sorc build and really had a good time running through Auridon on my Vampire.

Going to be a lot of fun when this goes live!

Agree, now I have some sort of incentive to play to reach a 3600 CP goal. I was testing some build with mag sorc and it's fun to theory craft with different CP options. There are some tweaks required and it seems like some of CP is not working as intended (bug reports already sent). I can surely say that the new system will not kill the game. If someone wants to counter my argument please do with numbers instead of just looking at CP tree or patch notes.

carlos424 · January 2021

LordKelsier wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Ugh. Once again any major change implemented into any MMO since the dawn of the genre will potentially "kill the game" according to some players.

Haven't we all danced this dance too many times already? The changes might be good, they might be bad, but they ultimately amount to some stat rearrangements, and are nowhere near significant enough to kill one of the biggest MMO's on the market.

Chill people. The sky isn't falling because some percentages are changing in your character sheet.

I disagree.

Losing 67k DPS (dropped from 102k parse on trial dummy to 35k) is a massive change (same gear, same setup, new cp all assinged to damage buffs). I was doing trifecta stuff and after this patch I will not even be able to complete vet dungeons. I just got demoted from an endgame player to a beginner after having played since beta.

All this game will have to offer me after this patch is playing normal dungeons and trials and having to grind at least 900 additional CP (so like another 1 or 2 years of playing) so I reach ~1800 and get about the same numbers as I am getting on live right now.

Apparently, the iron atro is bugged on pts. Still has full resistances.

NagualV · January 2021

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

Would also like to add that I dont hate the system

I just think the point true horizontal progress kicks in where were not receiving combat benefits has been set way too high.

I agree, i don't dislike the system at all, I just think the bar is too high. That's all. I don't mind rewarding folks who put time in for CP, thats fine. I dont mind a higher CP person having advantages, fine. Damage nerf? alright fine. But my feedback for week one would be that it may need some tweaking. This is from a PVP perspective.

Aedaryl · January 2021

@Ragnarock41 Can we talk about Unchained ?

CC immunity is 6s, you get your next stam ability cost reduced by 55% for 5s after breaking free.

Edit : didn't read well the passive lmao.

That cp is still very strong It does translate by about 400 stam recorevy in combat. This is a lot that magicka will never get, and it only cost 50points

kojou · January 2021

I looked through every section of the new CP system and I do think there will need to be some adjustments, but I actually think it is a step in the right direction, or at minimum an improvement over the old system.

phantasmalD · January 2021

Lephrel wrote: »

I will not grind cp ever again, I'd rather quit. The utter disrespect with which ZOS is treating veteran players has always been baffling. But changing maxlevel so vets who have been playing the game for 4-5yrs are barely one third of the way there, is a new low for them. Do they honestly expect the entire community to happily participate in yet another soul sucking grind for the next year, until they push out some actual content?

Uhmmm, pushing the ceiling further is a standard MMO practice to provide progression afaik.Most MMOs also increase equipment cap making old gear obsolote, so ESO is actually rather kind in that aspect.

The whole point is to move forward and feel like you have somewhere to grow, no?

Also, why do you talk like this screws over vets more than fresh newbies? You know, the people who have 0 CP instead of 1.5k+ and actually have to grind hard to catch up?

Maybe if passives had a sort of requirement and exclusionary rules? Like you can't take certain passives together, so when you take one the other fades away?

AyaDark · January 2021

JanTanhide wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

huh .. I don't have enough space to install the PTS, but if I read what you wrote correctly, there's a passive increasing weapon damage, but no passive increasing spell damage?

That's weird ..

It's there. I was on the PTS last night on my Mag Sorc and raised the Spell damage quite a bit through CP. I like the new CP tree. Lot's of choices and you can build very specific to a playstyle/gearset.

The 5 skills were desined just as it was made only for sorc.

It would be strange if you do not like.

Starlight_Knight · January 2021

i think its amazing and you're just over reacting, once it has some of the wording clarified and people stop jumping to conclusions without actually looking at it - all will be good!

jaws343 · January 2021

JanTanhide wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

huh .. I don't have enough space to install the PTS, but if I read what you wrote correctly, there's a passive increasing weapon damage, but no passive increasing spell damage?

That's weird ..

It's there. I was on the PTS last night on my Mag Sorc and raised the Spell damage quite a bit through CP. I like the new CP tree. Lot's of choices and you can build very specific to a playstyle/gearset.

With the CP change, base spell damage boost, and the spell damage increase with swords/greatswords, I am seriously considering dropping a front bar staff, that only boosts one type of damage, and running either a greatsword or dual wield front bar, and maybe using Crystal Frags as a spammable, to boost spell damage by quite a bit.

Would still have back bar staff for WoE and mag heavy attacks, but having overall damage, rather than just single target or AOE on the front bar seems really nice.

MentalxHammer · January 2021

AinSoph wrote: »

This is the first PTS week fam, give it some time.

No, it's important to give them this feedback asap

karekiz · January 2021

I don't care too much on power creep, but XP values have GOT to be adjusted.

I did one round of skyreach with a 50% xp boost on PTS and got about 5% xp. I am 1500 CP. CP should slow down roughly 2.5K - 3K CP in, but move at a good pace otherwise.

A random vet should be equal to about 10 CP per run. Random Normal 5 CP.

MrZeDark · January 2021

I love the new CP system and excited to see how group comps pull through content together now!!

Ragnaroek93 · January 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

I love the new CP system and excited to see how group comps pull through content together now!!

Will look like "lf 1 dps pledges 2,7k cp" soon. Having uncapped CP didn't work in the past so why should it work now? Why shouldn't people just quit in masses like they did last time until they released a cap? And nope, I don't think that this system will stay for long but releasing it in it's current state will cause significant damage to the game.

LordKelsier · January 2021

MrZeDark · January 2021

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I love the new CP system and excited to see how group comps pull through content together now!!

Will look like "lf 1 dps pledges 2,7k cp" soon. Having uncapped CP didn't work in the past so why should it work now? Why shouldn't people just quit in masses like they did last time until they released a cap? And nope, I don't think that this system will stay for long but releasing it in it's current state will cause significant damage to the game.

Yea but you have to remember this is just the start of the PTS -- the whole point of the PTS is to *** you all off and let them see balancing issues. It's not to say 'kill the game', 'game is ruined'. It truly is to test and provide valid arguments within the scope of the direction ZOS is going to take it.

So the new CP Tree concept is happening. People need to provide important information on how it should 'feel' or 'grow', not that it shouldn't be.

Sanguinor2 · January 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

Yea but you have to remember this is just the start of the PTS -- the whole point of the PTS is to *** you all off and let them see balancing issues. It's not to say 'kill the game', 'game is ruined'. It truly is to test and provide valid arguments within the scope of the direction ZOS is going to take it.

So the new CP Tree concept is happening. People need to provide important information on how it should 'feel' or 'grow', not that it shouldn't be.

You must be new here.

MrZeDark · January 2021

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

Yea but you have to remember this is just the start of the PTS -- the whole point of the PTS is to *** you all off and let them see balancing issues. It's not to say 'kill the game', 'game is ruined'. It truly is to test and provide valid arguments within the scope of the direction ZOS is going to take it.

So the new CP Tree concept is happening. People need to provide important information on how it should 'feel' or 'grow', not that it shouldn't be.

You must be new here.

To the forums, mostly - to the game, since Beta on PC and initial release.

LadyNalcarya · January 2021

LordKelsier wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Ugh. Once again any major change implemented into any MMO since the dawn of the genre will potentially "kill the game" according to some players.

Haven't we all danced this dance too many times already? The changes might be good, they might be bad, but they ultimately amount to some stat rearrangements, and are nowhere near significant enough to kill one of the biggest MMO's on the market.

Chill people. The sky isn't falling because some percentages are changing in your character sheet.

I disagree.

Losing 67k DPS (dropped from 102k parse on trial dummy to 35k) is a massive change (same gear, same setup, new cp all assinged to damage buffs). I was doing trifecta stuff and after this patch I will not even be able to complete vet dungeons. I just got demoted from an endgame player to a beginner after having played since beta.

All this game will have to offer me after this patch is playing normal dungeons and trials and having to grind at least 900 additional CP (so like another 1 or 2 years of playing) so I reach ~1800 and get about the same numbers as I am getting on live right now.

This sounds horrible.
I remember back when they nerfed sustain across the board in Morrowind patch, a lot of people found themselves unable to clear content/attempt new trial, and most raiding guild couldn't find enough people to do stuff. I can't imagine how bad it would be if they cut damage in half... Even the best guilds will be unable to clear veteran content if it's supposed to be like this.

tmbrinks · January 2021

LordKelsier wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I love the new CP system and excited to see how group comps pull through content together now!!

It's simple, they won't.

Any serious group will only accept CP 1440 and higher now, more likely even CP 2040 and up, as that is the MINIMUM (!) number of CPs you need to be a decent DD again (compared to live now)

They just implemented a system that does the opposite of what they told us they wanted to do. They wanted to lower the gap between floor and ceiling and they wanted to integrate all kinds of players into trials and whatnot, but instead they just basically kicked anyone under CP 2000 out of any kind of endgame content (dungeon and trial HMs).

Like the difference between a level 50 and CP810 was several times lower than it is between 810 and 3600 now. A CP810 can not even clear newer veteran dungeons now...

I am so happy I got True Genius and Bane of Thorns already, because instead of parsing 102k it's down to 35k now... No way you can even clear the HM with that, let alone a trifecta. Endgame is dead if this goes live

Went through last night. 3DD/1T vet Cauldron HM. 2nd pull we no-deathed the final boss.

If "parses" are down that much, I'd venture it's an issue with the trial dummy, rather than an actual dps change.

My AOE damage (using combat metrics) was only slightly down from where it's been previously.

EDIT: Oh, I should add... I'm on an Argonian Templar... arguably one of the worst DPS races now (I normally heal, but will spec to DPS/Tank for dungeons, since that's what's best for them)... and the worst mag dps class... and one of the other dps was also on a Templar (and at 1k CP)...

Sanguinor2 · January 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

To the forums, mostly - to the game, since Beta on PC and initial release.

Then you should know that Zos rarely changes stuff on PTS when shown how bad of an idea it is and instead does it 3 or more months later.

RunForTheHills · January 2021

So, I am fairly new and just below 600 CP. I started ESO in July. Is there an advantage to grinding CP now before the new system goes live and grinding gets harder? If so, how long until it goes live?

tmbrinks · January 2021

RunForTheHills wrote: »

So, I am fairly new and just below 600 CP. I started ESO in July. Is there an advantage to grinding CP now before the new system goes live and grinding gets harder? If so, how long until it goes live?

They said they would adjust the XP curve with the new system.

That adjustment is NOT on the PTS yet.

That said, since you're below the 810 cap (which is where the 50% penalty, as an extra cost to the next CP, kicks in), working on gaining CP up to that 810 cap would most likely not be a waste of your time.

Beyond that... without knowing what they're going to do, whether they eliminate that 50% penalty, or scale it down (like they did with all previous increases of CP), I wouldn't "grind" those levels yet.

That said, I am going to start saving my alchemy/enchanting master writs, along with my XP scrolls for after U29 drops, as in the worst case scenario we have the same XP grind we have now... but more likely, they nerf the curve and then I can get more "value" out of them when U29 comes.

U29 will drop in 5-6 weeks, depending on this PTS cycle... so probably early March.

kathandira · January 2021

LordKelsier wrote: »

[Any serious group will only accept CP 1440 and higher now, more likely even CP 2040 and up, as that is the MINIMUM (!) number of CPs you need to be a decent DD again (compared to live now)

Which is hysterical because they stated that they are attempting to avoid that. But just repeated the same thing.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I love the new CP system and excited to see how group comps pull through content together now!!

Will look like "lf 1 dps pledges 2,7k cp" soon. Having uncapped CP didn't work in the past so why should it work now? Why shouldn't people just quit in masses like they did last time until they released a cap? And nope, I don't think that this system will stay for long but releasing it in it's current state will cause significant damage to the game.

Yea but you have to remember this is just the start of the PTS -- the whole point of the PTS is to *** you all off and let them see balancing issues. It's not to say 'kill the game', 'game is ruined'. It truly is to test and provide valid arguments within the scope of the direction ZOS is going to take it.

So the new CP Tree concept is happening. People need to provide important information on how it should 'feel' or 'grow', not that it shouldn't be.

Apparantly they worked 2 years on this system and this is the result. Most of the feedback gets usually ignored until it hits the live server and everybody sees how broken it is and when it gets changed in the complete opposite direction. Look at dots for example: they got overbuffed in one patch, everybody told them so, they ignored it just to realise that they're broken and got nerfed to a weaker version than before the buffs.

And btw I have given information on how to improve it: Reduce the xp which is required for CP, give them diminishing returns, give it a catch up mechanic, make gaining xp more enjoyable (heavily increase xp gained from pvp, trials, dungeons, quests for example). Also

Derra wrote: »

The least they can do to keep to their word of vertical progression turning into horizontal progression with high CP is allow players to reallocate green CP into other branches.

is a good idea.

I mean I'm above 1k CP as well but when I see this I just feel bad for every new player who starts the game now (who are needed to keep the game alive). Would you recommend a friend to start with ESO when CP 2.0 gets pushed to live servers? I certainly wouldn't.

SeaUnicorn · January 2021

It is not going to kill the game per se, but I do find it rather convoluted and hard to traverse. Some perks are absolutely awesome where others are like quite lack-luster. Also definitely CP costs are such that it is totally a vertical progression especially the blue tree. Also I do not understand why blue tree is a mix of defense and offense.