New CP system is horrible and might kill the game

JinMori

Also, where exactly is this fatidical horizontal progression?

All i saw were some passives that increase what you do just like the previous system, but the only difference is that they are worse, and we don't unlock perks after we spent enough in a constellation, so honestly, this should tell you that this horizontal progression thing is simply marketing, and some people are biting to the bs.

Tell me, is a skill that you have to slot that increases your weapon and spell damage, or max resources horizontal or vertical progression? You be the judge.

This is failure incarnate, they had a cool system, and rather than doing something with it, they just nerfed it, and now they are salling it as if they did something great, the horizontal progression thing, and people are biting. Pathetic.

This is going pretty much exactly as i thought it would. I knew i was most likely right considering zos track record, but damn. I'm disappointed.

They also nerfed crit and a couple of other things, but honestly, at this point who cares, there are better mmos to waste time on in the market. Not even branding can save this game.

You want to see actual horizontal progression? Look up guild wars two, this game is just pretending, and you know what the problem is with gw2? There is no vertical progression, so after a while it just becomes boring because your character doesn't really grow in power much, is that the game you want to play?

Luke_Flamesword

If the new system means that the new endgame is zombie grind then I'd rather have a system which is dead end tbh

I never zombie grind (or skyreach or any other grind), only sometimes for very short time. I just play a game and whatever I do something combat involved, I get some more experience. I have 993 CP after 1,5 year of slow paced gaming and just doing whatever I wanted to do. You grind only if you want have everything RIGHT NOW, but this is not a game problem. LIke I said, for MMOs very long time progression is something normal and even needed.

thedoodle_90

I don't think EXP has been adjusted on PTS yet, also you are being a bit dramatic you listed tons of passive that have nothing to do with your dps so getting them isnt gonna make your dps better than someone with lower CP like I see maybe 5 passives that effect DPS for each build. You not havign the 2k mana CP as a stam DPS isnt really gonna effect you much and nothing having 10% crit healing isnt going to do anything,

At 810 sure you are missing about 2-3 stars so I'd say around CP 1.2k or so you will have everything filled and then after that its just QoL branching out stuff.

Maxx7410

if i do a PTS install i can use my toons to try? because if i have to power level it will take forever

Ragnaroek93

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

If the new system means that the new endgame is zombie grind then I'd rather have a system which is dead end tbh

I never zombie grind (or skyreach or any other grind), only sometimes for very short time. I just play a game and whatever I do something combat involved, I get some more experience. I have 993 CP after 1,5 year of slow paced gaming and just doing whatever I wanted to do. You grind only if you want have everything RIGHT NOW, but this is not a game problem. LIke I said, for MMOs very long time progression is something normal and even needed.

If you want to be competitive you'll compete against people who actually grind that stuff so yeah...

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I don't think EXP has been adjusted on PTS yet, also you are being a bit dramatic you listed tons of passive that have nothing to do with your dps so getting them isnt gonna make your dps better than someone with lower CP like I see maybe 5 passives that effect DPS for each build. You not havign the 2k mana CP as a stam DPS isnt really gonna effect you much and nothing having 10% crit healing isnt going to do anything,

At 810 sure you are missing about 2-3 stars so I'd say around CP 1.2k or so you will have everything filled and then after that its just QoL branching out stuff.

All of the listed perks are somehow relevant if you want to PvP tbh.

Raegwyr

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Perks too strong? Please, everything you listed is pretty weaksauce, 100 spell damage for 30 or 50 points, oh wow, so strong!

It adds up.

The hell you are talking about current elfborn and master at arms give you more power then the whole 4 blue slots + non slotable passives. New blue cps are incredibly weak when comparing to the system we have on live now

Ragnaroek93

Maxx7410 wrote: »

if i do a PTS install i can use my toons to try? because if i have to power level it will take forever

No you don't need to level them, you can create a 810 cp template.

Raegwyr wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Perks too strong? Please, everything you listed is pretty weaksauce, 100 spell damage for 30 or 50 points, oh wow, so strong!

It adds up.

The hell you are talking about current elfborn and master at arms give you more power then the whole 4 blue slots + non slotable passives. New blue cps are incredibly weak when comparing to the system we have on live now

Current system is at least capped at 810 which you can reach in a reasonable amount of time and you also have diminishing returns...

AyaDark

LordKelsier wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Ugh. Once again any major change implemented into any MMO since the dawn of the genre will potentially "kill the game" according to some players.

Haven't we all danced this dance too many times already? The changes might be good, they might be bad, but they ultimately amount to some stat rearrangements, and are nowhere near significant enough to kill one of the biggest MMO's on the market.

Chill people. The sky isn't falling because some percentages are changing in your character sheet.

I disagree.

Losing 67k DPS (dropped from 102k parse on trial dummy to 35k) is a massive change (same gear, same setup, new cp all assinged to damage buffs). I was doing trifecta stuff and after this patch I will not even be able to complete vet dungeons. I just got demoted from an endgame player to a beginner after having played since beta.

All this game will have to offer me after this patch is playing normal dungeons and trials and having to grind at least 900 additional CP (so like another 1 or 2 years of playing) so I reach ~1800 and get about the same numbers as I am getting on live right now.

It is not problem to do better builds.

But all game change each update like it is new game.

No balancing, just random changes !!!

DK is dead class. Too much useless skills.

Race changes, cp changes all changes each update.

They need to stop. We see that it is not work, it is just random changes to show work.

[Snip]

It was fixed 1 year !!! Just change value from 0 to current take 1 year !!!

Other my skill (was useless do not care even now) Is fixed only now !!!

More than 1,5 year to fix ??? Just a class skill ???

Yes it is useless, like 50% of dk skills by the way, but i report that problem to, not as often as skill i needed.

Is there any respect to players ? No.

How is it possible to do like this ?

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relentless_turnip

@Ragnaroek93 Just to clarify the constellations you listed in your op do these need to be slotted or are they active as soon as you invest points?

NagualV

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 Just to clarify the constellations you listed in your op do these need to be slotted or are they active as soon as you invest points?

These are the passive ones, if I recall correctly from my testing last night. They become and stay active as soon as you invest points...

relentless_turnip

NagualV wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 Just to clarify the constellations you listed in your op do these need to be slotted or are they active as soon as you invest points?

These are the passive ones, if I recall correctly from my testing last night. They become and stay active as soon as you invest points...

Thanks for clarifying 👍

Ragnaroek93

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 Just to clarify the constellations you listed in your op do these need to be slotted or are they active as soon as you invest points?

No, sadly these aren't the ones that need to be slotted in order to work.

NagualV

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 Just to clarify the constellations you listed in your op do these need to be slotted or are they active as soon as you invest points?

No, sadly these aren't the ones that need to be slotted in order to work.

I have around 865 cp, and I noticed how many passives I was unable to use. Then I thought about someone with 1200, or higher cp, and realized wow.

thedoodle_90

So for DPS output you need 840 CP for all the passives that do not need to be slotted then another 600 CP or so for 4 slottable ones. So around 1400 CP to max out DPS output passives.

Then you can focus on the other traits in blue which are Defensive and Healing.

The non slottable defensives are 150 CP so you need 1750 Level

Then you do healing ones that arent slottable requires 100 CP (so 300 CP lvls)

And after all of this you are STILL going to eb weaker than live because live has like +25% master oif arms vs +10% deadly aim.

Greydir

Also remember you get only 1/3 of your max cp per tree, so you will need roughly 2700 cp to get the usable dps passives.

Zulera301

I thought the last 28 updates were each supposed to kill the game. This one's the real one that'll finally do it then?

olsborg

Yea, man so like... I agree 100% , cant do anything else but..

AyaDark

Each update i hope some thing good happen.

Why it do not ???

Nothing good from: Summerset: X days.

preevious

Well, it's not going to kill the game, that's for sure.

But still .. talking about horizontal progression while implementing a change that'll insanely increase the vertical progression is beyond baffling.

I sure hope it's re-worked so that either

1) Gaining cp is much, much, M.U.C.H quicker.
2) The top-of-their-game 810+cp players get boosted.

I mean, I'm cp 890 or so. I can complete vTrials allright, and I'm reasonably competent as to not be a burden in any group i've been with so far.

If I get rejected by groups now because I'll be artificially brought down in level by the change, I'll be annoyed.

people already in endgame should be boosted to endgame levels directly.
people close to endgame should be boosed to close to endgame level directly.

Anything short of that is disrespectful.

JinMori

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Perks too strong? Please, everything you listed is pretty weaksauce, 100 spell damage for 30 or 50 points, oh wow, so strong!

It adds up.

Everything adds up at the moment and it's much more powerful, even without 3600 cp points.

At the end of the day there is no rework, it's a nerf disguised as a rework.

Maxx7410

i like that now i will have to work to increase my CP from 1123 to 3600 well in reality you dont need 3600 because you can have all things activated at the same time but maybe 1400 1500 cp yes, we can grow again!!!!

Ragnaroek93

JinMori wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Perks too strong? Please, everything you listed is pretty weaksauce, 100 spell damage for 30 or 50 points, oh wow, so strong!

It adds up.

Everything adds up at the moment and it's much more powerful, even without 3600 cp points.

At the end of the day there is no rework, it's a nerf disguised as a rework.

I don't mind a nerf that much, I'm more worried that we'll have to grind like crazy in order to be competitive right now. When I look at the current tank meta in PvP I'm worried about a dmg nerf too tho...

Maxx7410 wrote: »

i like that now i will have to work to increase my CP from 1123 to 3600 well in reality you dont need 3600 because you can have all things activated at the same time but maybe 1400 1500 cp yes, we can grow again!!!!

You need 2,7k cp to have everything so enjoy your zombie grind.

GrimTheReaper45

Came to a similar conclusion.

I think the the passive stars that dont have to be slotted are way to numerous. You might have enough to spec into what you want at a lower level but your not going to have enough to spec into everything much higher level players can that is combat relevant. Its seems like the level to be "completely" combat spec'd is going to be a lot higher than it is now.

Myrddin1357

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

First problem is that the perks are way too strong, the goal was to reduce the powergap between new and veteran players and this does the opposite.
Second problem is that there is no more diminishing returns on perks, this means that every point which you spend is equal to the others (spending 50 points in one perk gives you 5x the amount of stats which you get from spending 10 points into the perk).
".

Maybe I'm missing something but based on what I'm seeing the overall damage boost from the new system with the numbers as they are will mean a very big reduction in the bonus to damage. For example, currently you can easily have 15 percent boost to magic damage and another 10+ percent boost direct attacks and these stack somehow.

If I am reading it right, this is getting replaced by 100 spell damage and 1300 magicka. That's like 3 percent increase at best. And you need a lot more CP points assigned to get to that level. This could partially account for why ppl are reporting their dps numbers are falling off a cliff (though I'm sure there are bugs affecting it as well)

In effect, we will be spending many more CP point and getting a small fraction of the damage increase that we currently have,.So it seems to me the perks will be much weaker under the new system between max cp and very low cp under the new system. I think this is their goal.

Ragnaroek93

Myrddin1357 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

First problem is that the perks are way too strong, the goal was to reduce the powergap between new and veteran players and this does the opposite.
Second problem is that there is no more diminishing returns on perks, this means that every point which you spend is equal to the others (spending 50 points in one perk gives you 5x the amount of stats which you get from spending 10 points into the perk).
".

Maybe I'm missing something but based on what I'm seeing the overall damage boost from the new system with the numbers as they are will mean a very big reduction in the bonus to damage. For example, currently you can easily have 15 percent boost to magic damage and another 10+ percent boost direct attacks and these stack somehow.

If I am reading it right, this is getting replaced by 100 spell damage and 1300 magicka. That's like 3 percent increase at best. And you need a lot more CP points assigned to get to that level. This could partially account for why ppl are reporting their dps numbers are falling off a cliff (though I'm sure there are bugs affecting it as well)

In effect, we will be spending many more CP point and getting a small fraction of the damage increase that we currently have,.So it seems to me the perks will be much weaker under the new system between max cp and very low cp under the new system. I think this is their goal.

Since diminishing returns gets nuked I highly doubt that the difference between low and high CP player gets lower. In fact having the stats which I listed above is a huge gamechanger in PvP compared to someone who doesn't have them. That's kinda the same as it is currently but right now you can also catch up way faster and dr kicks in once you get to ~600 cp. Now 600 CP is the absolute baseline with no DR at all.

JinMori wrote: »

Myrddin1357 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

First problem is that the perks are way too strong, the goal was to reduce the powergap between new and veteran players and this does the opposite.
Second problem is that there is no more diminishing returns on perks, this means that every point which you spend is equal to the others (spending 50 points in one perk gives you 5x the amount of stats which you get from spending 10 points into the perk).
".

Maybe I'm missing something but based on what I'm seeing the overall damage boost from the new system with the numbers as they are will mean a very big reduction in the bonus to damage. For example, currently you can easily have 15 percent boost to magic damage and another 10+ percent boost direct attacks and these stack somehow.

If I am reading it right, this is getting replaced by 100 spell damage and 1300 magicka. That's like 3 percent increase at best. And you need a lot more CP points assigned to get to that level. This could partially account for why ppl are reporting their dps numbers are falling off a cliff (though I'm sure there are bugs affecting it as well)

In effect, we will be spending many more CP point and getting a small fraction of the damage increase that we currently have,.So it seems to me the perks will be much weaker under the new system between max cp and very low cp under the new system. I think this is their goal.

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[Snip]

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Odovacar

I'm not on PTS but I'm a little surprised they opened the flood gates straight away to 3600. I'm not quite sure what Finn and the team were thinking with that thought process...Maybe they feel if you're a loner and don't play competitive endgame you can pony up to your "new companion" and enjoy ESO just like the rest, who knows right?

I'm interested in hearing more feedback from the PTS testers but everything I've seen so far seems to be pretty dismal. What would you say (if anyone even knows yet ) would be a nice CP level for endgame vet DLC trials at this current state?

GrimTheReaper45

Would also like to add that I dont hate the system

I just think the point true horizontal progress kicks in where were not receiving combat benefits has been set way too high.

Also I really wish the horizontal progression as a whole was less combat themed. Its nice I have the option to eventually spec into a tank or healer role but I have alt characters for that already. The real star of the horizontal progression in my opinion is green tree. Where when Im not doing combat related things I can swap into a more casual activity set up for like stealing or farming or crafting.

JJMaxx1980

This will not kill the game. This is a TEST server. Some of the comments here are wholly inappropriate for what should be more of a technical discussion of what works and what doesn't work. There is no need for hyperbole and melodramatic theatrics. The team over at ZOS are real people who love this game and have been designing this new CP system for over a year. They have done this because we have asked for a CP raise. You can't raise the CP without providing positive benefits for increasing your level. Now everyone is upset that they're not gonna be at the level cap. You can't have it both ways.

Any change they make is going to for everyone. It's not like your guild that requires 85k+ DPS is going to keep that requirement when everyone is now doing 60k. We will need to adapt and figure out this new system. This are going to be different and that's good. I don't care what they do, the game needs a change in my opinion. I'm an endgame player and I log on and besides my scheduled trials there's just not much for me to do. I don't need keys, I don't need transmute crystals, I don't need XP. I just run around in Craglorn reading the pre-pubescent prattle in zone chat until trial time.

The game isn't going to die. Besides this forum for feedback, the ZOS design team are also going to be in contact with the people who crunch ESO numbers for a living, content creators such as Nefas, Xynode, Alcast, etc... people who's job is to know these numbers inside and out. If you think that ZOS is going to roll out changes to make veteran content unreachable, then you don't really understand how things work.

Bottom line, this is a drastic change but we will adapt and it is a much-needed change to an otherwise stagnant game. I have no doubt CP 2.0 will morph to 2.1, 2.2 and beyond before it goes live. Very smart, talented people will put this through the tests and tweaks will be made. So let's all be respectful and provide feedback in a mature way without all the insults and melodrama.

Derra

Everything about the new system is vertial progression as long as people are not allowed to spend ALL their CP freely - because only 2 out of 3 cp are relevant for combat perks.

This means players will need 2700 cp to max out their combat effectiveness and going higher will still provide advantages in survivability/healing/tankiness.

The least they can do to keep to their word of vertical progression turning into horizontal progression with high CP is allow players to reallocate green CP into other branches.

As it stands it´s just vertical progression but every 3rd cp is useless in combat so you´ll have to earn even more than you did before to max out.

JanTanhide

preevious wrote: »

huh .. I don't have enough space to install the PTS, but if I read what you wrote correctly, there's a passive increasing weapon damage, but no passive increasing spell damage?

That's weird ..

It's there. I was on the PTS last night on my Mag Sorc and raised the Spell damage quite a bit through CP. I like the new CP tree. Lot's of choices and you can build very specific to a playstyle/gearset.