PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.

PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.

"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.

1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.

So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.

If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.

But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.

I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.

I won't disagree that ZOS has made many dumb changes that have lessened the fun in PvP for many and both "casual" and veteran players. Though I will say this was not their intent and a consequence of them listening to suggestions from streamers who make their money killing players rather than logging in and spending a lot of time partaking in Cyrodiil experience.

But your statements that MYM is somehow not inclusive enough to PvEers or its a "a cheap ploy to get PVE players into PVP zones so they can be slaughtered by the PVPers" are full of hot air.

The first thing I'd say is that these events are 1000% voluntary and nobody is forced to partake in them. Which is good, because I find most of these events booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring. You might look at the New Life Festival and praise its inclusivity in that I'm not going to get ganked or need top-end gear, but that very combination means to my particular gameplay preferences amount to a big giant ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. So guess what? I don;t come onto these forums and rail at the developers for not catering every event to my personal preferences, I keep silent and just don't partake in them. This event is obviously catered to people who are really into the Tamriel's Lore, the mythos and legends each of the races have, and this year their addition of paying homage to an dead NPC was a nice touch for people who play their toons "in character." But not really my thing, which is fine. So I do my own thing and respect that the developers have tailored this to a different subset of their customer base.

Secondly, any event that is going to have a PvP component to it is not going to have conditions that are 100% controllable by ZOS because we're not dealing with pre-programmed NPCs. And because the participants are playing against each other, there is nothing ZOS can do to ensure your definition of inclusivity, which seems to be that "casual" players are always pitted in a 1v1 duel against other "casual" players, never coming into contact or competition with more experienced players. Which, in my opinion, is an odd definition of inclusivity. I do not think that having every event cater to a specific segment of the population that dislikes PvP and isn;t a fan of competitive gameplay (PvE or PvP) is very inclusive. Their $15 a month isn;t somehow more worthy or valuable than my $15 a month. When *every single new Zone, quest, and expansion* is also catered to this sort of easy PvE gameplay that requires no gear or a modicum of skillful gameplay, it just makes it even more ridiculous. I tell you what. I'll trade those 2 weeks a year of double AP for just one DLC in the next 5 years that reforms Cyodiil. PvPers throw their money every month to ZOS for a basically a big fat nothing in return when it comes to their preferences and desires. And now you're arguing that because the bone throws at them has the uncontrollable variable of PvP competition, it's too much or unhealthy for casual PvPer? Wut? If they really hate PvP that much, why cant they treat it the way I treat the New Life?

Finally, you are being hyperbolic regrading the difficulties and barriers that inexperienced players have in Cyrodiil. Again, I will acknowledge that ZOS's recent changes to 12 person sized group and no cross heals are extremely disadvantageous and unhealthy for these sorts of players, but those changes are independent of the actual Mid Year Mayhem event itself (as in, ZOS could and should revert those changes and acknowledged they have created too much divisiveness and complaints). A player could dust off their 5 year old Julianos set and perform about as reasonably well as I do in PvE dungeon land with my Bright-Throat / Clever Alfiq setup, i.e., successful engage and complete the content. And even if you give this casual inexperienced player golded out versions of the most obnoxious overpowered proc sets, it won't matter because they will still lose to me in about 4 seconds. (If I choose to fight them at all that is, which I won't unless they park themselves amidst other players, which they should be doing). So that's not going to matter much in the final calculation.

Because we are dealing with other players and not pre-programmed braindead NPCs, it is true that ZOS can't 100% hold the hands of inexperienced players. But ZOS has certainly provided ample opportunities that inexperienced players can make hundreds of thousands of AP in a single night and not have to worry about getting ganked at quests. If you show up and stay on your horse while 30 other players take an undefended resource, you get 3000 AP! I'd say ZOS is bending over backwards in an attempt to meet your standard of inclusivity, no? And if these players do what 80% of experienced players do, that is just following the faction stack from keep to keep, they will rack up they AP and rarely will have to worry about those pesky gankers or getting in a 1v1 vs a hardcore experienced player. In fact, players 100% should avoid the questing towns altogether as I said as much in a guide I wrote years ago . At the end of the day though, you are missing that some PvE players might actually and surprisingly enjoy the big bad scary non-inclusive environment that is Cyrodiil and opt to engage more in it. Our guild and my friends list has a bunch of people with similar stories; they used to be exclusively or focused on PvE and eventually wound up liking Cyrodiil. So, you don't speak for every PvE player and if ZOS just canceled Mid Year Mayhem, then such an action would be excluding people from discovering other aspects of the game that they wound up enjoying and even preferring. Not every inclusive, is it?