Maintenance for the week of December 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
Mid year mayhem start date
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
I have encountered far more toxicity in dungeons and PVE content than I ever have in PvP. I find elitism seems to be more rife their as the path to success is more linear and thus the tolerance for anything outside what is expected is far less.
I think people assume the unfriendliness of pvp because the aim is to kill one another. You are aware that it is a person killing you as oppose a mob with a predetermined set of attacks. People tend to take their losses more personally because of this.
If you are referring to the skill gap between someone starting PvP and someone who is experienced I agree. It isn't beginner friendly.
I don't see this an issue though, as most MMOs have a steep curve in terms of player ability. With other MMOs you also have a massive gear disparity too.
I think it comes down to whether you enjoy the content enough to try and get better at it.
I appreciate our experiences are totally different though.
I wouldn't take my PvP characters to a trial and expect to succeed, I would be aware I need to change gear, cp etc.... I think this is generally accepted by most and many choose to make Alts to simplify this process. In terms of PvP accessibility it can all be bought on a guild trader or crafted. It takes all of 15 minutes to be able to compete. To succeed in a trial takes an equal amount of practice to perform acceptably enough to compete. Gear however is more expensive and harder to acquire.
I've taken alts that had trash gear to trials and did not have any issue. I did not have to change my CP, skills, or gear.
In PVP you can be dead before the person or attack even appears on your screen. I've never had this problem and i do dungeons (and vet dungeons) every day.
And yes, the goal is to kill other players. Sure there are chill groups, but ifI went into zone chat and typed "LFG" for a trial, and into Cyro and typed "LFG" for a pvp group, on PS4-NA I would always find a trial group first.
There might be toxicity in Vet dungeons but as we have never had an event that required a vet dungeon I don't think it applies, I don't see it as often in normal. I've seen private groups being toxic to greens on their own side (players fighting along side but ungrouped) because of the mentality of gaining AP and the idea of people leaching.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 8:16PM2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
1. You don't get a lot of AP if no one's going to Cyro.. Inaccessable is going to the front line, trying to help and getting instantly targeted for not being in a zerg.
2. I'm a Lieutenant Grade 2, and gotten Rapids on 6 of my alts (going to try for all 15 as soon as I can.
2. There's a group finder for dungeons. There's not one for PVP.
3. Gankers happen in IC, not Cyro, and it happens ALL the time.
4. Revives take tons of time to get back to the battle if the enemy cuts off the resources, which they almost always do.
5. I'm not in a PVP guild and it sounds like you are.
6. Jerks do occur in both but no one wants to randomly group in PVP while it happens all the time in dungeons and people are used to it.
I've heard a lot of talk of "Nice and helpful in Cyrodiil" but Give me any hour in PS4-NA Grey Host and I will show you namecalling, trash-talking, and lots of desperate cries for LFG that simply get ignored.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 8:40PM1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Repost for clarity as somehow the person’s reply was put into my reply.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.”Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on January 20, 2021 8:43PM1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is?
You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
You never rTHEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
Ganking happens in IC, not Cyro.. the only "gank" that happens in Cyro is flag bombers...
But anyways I think a lot of my complaints would go away if joining a group was easier. Its not. It wont be until PVP is more popular, and its not. If you think a self heal is all you need I laugh because you will be dead first when anyone hits you.
How would you know who would be dead first? I didn’t say equip a heal and ignore everything else.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.
The biggest joke is that in one breath you say you can melt down platoons and the previous say that non-pvpers can be useful. The only thing I see a pve-er being in Cyro is cannon fodder for your build.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 8:44PM1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
1. You don't get a lot of AP if no one's going to Cyro.. Inaccessable is going to the front line, trying to help and getting instantly targeted for not being in a zerg.
2. I'm a Lieutenant Grade 2, and gotten Rapids on 6 of my alts (going to try for all 15 as soon as I can.
2. There's a group finder for dungeons. There's not one for PVP.
3. Gankers happen in IC, not Cyro, and it happens ALL the time.
4. Revives take tons of time to get back to the battle if the enemy cuts off the resources, which they almost always do.
5. I'm not in a PVP guild and it sounds like you are.
6. Jerks do occur in both but no one wants to randomly group in PVP while it happens all the time in dungeons and people are used to it.
I've heard a lot of talk of "Nice and helpful in Cyrodiil" but Give me any hour in PS4-NA Grey Host and I will show you namecalling, trash-talking, and lots of desperate cries for LFG that simply get ignored.
I get it now. I own an XBox and a PS4. The PS4 crowd is a collection of violent psychopaths in comparison to XBox.
As an owner of The Show on PS4 I get more awful messages in 3 months on my PS4 than I do the whole rest of the year.
The XBox PVP community is candyland level friendly to everyone except the most obnoxious people.0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is?
You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
You never rTHEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
Ganking happens in IC, not Cyro.. the only "gank" that happens in Cyro is flag bombers...
But anyways I think a lot of my complaints would go away if joining a group was easier. Its not. It wont be until PVP is more popular, and its not. If you think a self heal is all you need I laugh because you will be dead first when anyone hits you.
How would you know who would be dead first? I didn’t say equip a heal and ignore everything else.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.
The biggest joke is that in one breath you say you can melt down platoons and the previous say that non-pvpers can be useful. The only thing I see a pve-er being in Cyro is cannon fodder for your build.
You would be. Not denying that. But if you were on my side I’d be helpful.
Don’t confuse me with anyone else. I’m absolutely going to use PVErs as cannon fodder. But if you follow my advice it won’t be you.0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the two biggest take-aways is that its extremely difficult for a solo player to be effective in Cyro, which is fine. But combined with how hard it is to find groups that can be effective means that its an uphill battle.
Obviously there are good groups, PVP guilds, and great times to be had in Cyro, and even IC from time to time. I'm not denying that, and those who have them, cherish them. Because once your guild stops playing, or the population goes down.. things get rough.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is?
You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
You never rTHEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
Ganking happens in IC, not Cyro.. the only "gank" that happens in Cyro is flag bombers...
But anyways I think a lot of my complaints would go away if joining a group was easier. Its not. It wont be until PVP is more popular, and its not. If you think a self heal is all you need I laugh because you will be dead first when anyone hits you.
How would you know who would be dead first? I didn’t say equip a heal and ignore everything else.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.
The biggest joke is that in one breath you say you can melt down platoons and the previous say that non-pvpers can be useful. The only thing I see a pve-er being in Cyro is cannon fodder for your build.
You would be. Not denying that. But if you were on my side I’d be helpful.
Don’t confuse me with anyone else. I’m absolutely going to use PVErs as cannon fodder. But if you follow my advice it won’t be you.
Glad to see you back around here, LOL. Lets also not forget, it's not exactly like people wear a sign saying PVE'er on their chest. Sure you can see alliance rank, but as there are people with multiple GOs, that doesnt really say a whole lot. I would guess most of us had had the experience where we see what we think to be a "Squishy" player based on rank or CP, attack, and find out very quickly, oh that dude can play.
Midyear Mayhem is exactly that, Mayhem. It is the apex of chaotic zerg warfare in ESO. Opportunistic players are going to pounce on squishy targets on theopen battle field, and that's okay. Are most of them predominately PVE'ers, probably, but I also challenge that distinction as well. I have played more PVE than PVP over the years, but I don't consider myself a PVE'er exclusively, and in fact, midyear mayhem is far and away my favorite event.
Pretty sure you are arguing (and winning said argument) with someone that has barely tested the PVP waters, doesn't like to lose, and is unwilling to put the time/effort in to change that dynamic. PVP has a higher skill threshold than PVE. I wont say that mastering one is harder than the other, but a base level of competence is much harder to achieve in PVP. The problem is, people will never look inward, and always try to find excuses for what is almost always a skill gap.
Gankers are rare (at least ones that you need to worry about), insta deaths where you dont see what killed you are also extremely uncommon, and a basic PVP build is not hard to obtain. Sure you will get wrecked the first time you play PVP, but that is true with any video game I have ever played. Its easy to hide in a twelve man, pickup trial group. Not so easy to hide when other people (not NPCs) are actually trying to kill your character.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is?
You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
You never rTHEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
Ganking happens in IC, not Cyro.. the only "gank" that happens in Cyro is flag bombers...
But anyways I think a lot of my complaints would go away if joining a group was easier. Its not. It wont be until PVP is more popular, and its not. If you think a self heal is all you need I laugh because you will be dead first when anyone hits you.
How would you know who would be dead first? I didn’t say equip a heal and ignore everything else.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.
The biggest joke is that in one breath you say you can melt down platoons and the previous say that non-pvpers can be useful. The only thing I see a pve-er being in Cyro is cannon fodder for your build.
You would be. Not denying that. But if you were on my side I’d be helpful.
Don’t confuse me with anyone else. I’m absolutely going to use PVErs as cannon fodder. But if you follow my advice it won’t be you.
Glad to see you back around here, LOL. Lets also not forget, it's not exactly like people wear a sign saying PVE'er on their chest. Sure you can see alliance rank, but as there are people with multiple GOs, that doesnt really say a whole lot. I would guess most of us had had the experience where we see what we think to be a "Squishy" player based on rank or CP, attack, and find out very quickly, oh that dude can play.
Midyear Mayhem is exactly that, Mayhem. It is the apex of chaotic zerg warfare in ESO. Opportunistic players are going to pounce on squishy targets on theopen battle field, and that's okay. Are most of them predominately PVE'ers, probably, but I also challenge that distinction as well. I have played more PVE than PVP over the years, but I don't consider myself a PVE'er exclusively, and in fact, midyear mayhem is far and away my favorite event.
Pretty sure you are arguing (and winning said argument) with someone that has barely tested the PVP waters, doesn't like to lose, and is unwilling to put the time/effort in to change that dynamic. PVP has a higher skill threshold than PVE. I wont say that mastering one is harder than the other, but a base level of competence is much harder to achieve in PVP. The problem is, people will never look inward, and always try to find excuses for what is almost always a skill gap.
Gankers are rare (at least ones that you need to worry about), insta deaths where you dont see what killed you are also extremely uncommon, and a basic PVP build is not hard to obtain. Sure you will get wrecked the first time you play PVP, but that is true with any video game I have ever played. Its easy to hide in a twelve man, pickup trial group. Not so easy to hide when other people (not NPCs) are actually trying to kill your character.
I appreciate your response, and I find this type of mentality the most common amongst PVPers. This is why I would not recommend an event that requires PVP to non-pvpers.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 10:05PM0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
There's nothing to prove there, because your statement is just wrong.
Now, if you'd said something like "consistently successful PvP" instead of just "PvP," your statement would have been closer to fact, but would still have been inaccurate IMO.
Keep in mind, I'm not a PvPer except when forced into it by circumstances. I have my preferences set to auto-decline duels because I have no interest in duelling; I've never played a BG; and although I've been to Cyrodiil and the IC, I'm more interested in their PvE aspects than their PvP aspects.
Nevertheless, I've helped take keeps and defend keeps, I've helped capture or recover scrolls and even carried several scrolls across Cyrodiil to stow them in friendly keeps and temples, and I've helped fight enemy platers in the IC districts and sewers. I've even been attacked by enemy players in 1v1 and on occasion have come out the winner or fought to a tie; and if most of the time I was beaten, sometimes I at least managed to drag the fight out for several minutes.
I've gone from being very afraid of PvP to being much less afraid of PvP and discovering that it can be a lot of fun even if I nearly always die-- and this was mostly due to being enticed into Cyrodiil and the IC by their events, although I'd been to both Cyrodiil and the IC long before I ever participated in one of their events; I just didn't tend to stay there as long or keep going back there day after day.
Anyway, I've never rebuilt my CP (yet) on any of my characters. I've purchased some PvP gear from the TV merchants, but I'm not so sure that it's helped very much (seeing as how I still get killed most of the time). I've respecced my APs on a couple of characters, but only to make minor changes. I've never respecced my skills (yet) on any of my characters. And as for carrying around siege equipment, pots, and oil, I don't usually do that, either, although I'll carry siege equipment and oil if I'm planning to participate in attacking and defending keeps. And pots are heavily used by PvErs as well as PvPers. For that matter, a lot of PvErs also enjoy respeccing their CP, gear, and skills so they'll have a better chance at being successful in PvE.
I suppose the key word is "fun," as in casually playing the content for fun, as opposed to "work" or treating it like an activity that requires and deserves a lot of careful study; mathematical juggling of the various parameters (APs, CP, skills, gear, etc.) to compute some ultimate BIS, META build; and many long hours of practicing rotations, or of grinding for some cherished All-Important Trinket to complete one's Ultimate Build. The first mindset doesn't require any respeccing, ever; and the second mindset isn't exclusive to PvP. To be sure, we're talking about a continuum here, not a clearly-defined dichotomy, so you can still respec and practice and grind if you're more of a casual player looking for fun. But if you're just looking for fun and don't particularly care about whether you can "beat" the content on your own and whether you end up dying a lot, then casual play never requires respeccing-- and PvP can be approached casually, too; that mindset isn't exclusive to PvE.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is?
You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
You never rTHEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
I’ve played since PC beta. I moved to console at console launch. For a good 3 years I PVP’d nearly every day.
My main also wears infused and divines like a PVE toon. In my thousands of hours of playing I’ve spent less than 10 of them in impen gear. So yes, that’s one fallacy you can put to bed. While wearing impen might be overall good advice, no you don’t have to wear it or anything else to be competent.
Gankers being an issue is another boogeyman. It you have a fast mount, and possibly rapid maneuvers you’ll almost never get ganked. Seriously. Almost never. If you stop in the middle of a field on a hill to read your map or start a RP concert you might, but that’s on you. The most common place to get ganked is on a siege weapon. And if you do, guess what, there is a near 100% chance you’ll either get picked up by an ally within seconds or you were trying to take a castle alone. Once again, what do you expect?
No one expects a random to lay down a bunch of siege. I mean it’s helpful but no one will even notice if you don’t if you’re not in a group. If you are uncomfortable using you AP to buy some (don’t use gold) it doesn’t matter. The coordinated PVP guilds have that covered.
The only thing you really need to change in PVP if you are ungrouped is you will need the ability to self heal. If that breaks your build, so be it. To solo correctly in Cyrodiil you need to be able to do all 3 trinity roles at any time, not be a defenseless cannon. If you have a group, well that’s a different story.
Honestly most of your gripes simply sound like you play with the wrong people. To that point do you know why I don’t do dungeons? I had bad experiences with PVE dungeon people. I had a PUG guy send me one of the only swear laden messages I’ve ever gotten because I didn’t equip a spell for a deficiency I didn’t know he had. And the one trial I did I was told beforehand that I would need to change my build, talked them into letting me not do that and completed it. When we finished the leader said he was surprised I held my own. I wasn’t, because if you can PVP you can PVE. You just need someone to let you know the mechanics.
Anyway, there are a lot of really nice and helpful people in Cyrodiil. There are also jerks. Just like anywhere else. But that aside a significant majority of your worries are simply being scared of monsters in the closet.
Ganking happens in IC, not Cyro.. the only "gank" that happens in Cyro is flag bombers...
But anyways I think a lot of my complaints would go away if joining a group was easier. Its not. It wont be until PVP is more popular, and its not. If you think a self heal is all you need I laugh because you will be dead first when anyone hits you.
How would you know who would be dead first? I didn’t say equip a heal and ignore everything else.
Here is what the difference is.
- If you want to enter Cyrodiil and be competent you can do that in any build with ZERO changes to your core build.
- If you want to be a solo player in Cyrodiil who racks up kills by the dozens, can survive in a massive battle and be a feared opponent then you need a proper build and ... this is the most important part ... THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE.
All you need to do to be competent in Cyrodiil is to look at your map, port to the biggest battle and stand behind some CP 810 vets pew pewing stuff. The kills are shared. You’ll get a ton of AP this way and feel like you’re helping, because you are.
If you want or expect in any way shape or form to PVP once a year and be the hero of Cyrodiil it won’t happen.
Personally my main was set up 2 days ago with 30K in each resist, 3k crit resist, 3k spell power and like 42k magic. I have speed pots. I have invisibility pots. I have immovable pots. I can tank a platoon and melt them with 1 ultimate and VD without even bar swapping. I’m ready for nearly anything because I’ve been doing it for more than 5 years.
No one expects you to be prepared like Batman like I am. You don’t need to be prepared like Batman. All you have to do is open your map and port to the biggest fight while having 1 heal equipped. No one is going to kill you first because no one knows who you are. If you die first it’s because you did something to put yourself in danger.
The biggest joke is that in one breath you say you can melt down platoons and the previous say that non-pvpers can be useful. The only thing I see a pve-er being in Cyro is cannon fodder for your build.
You would be. Not denying that. But if you were on my side I’d be helpful.
Don’t confuse me with anyone else. I’m absolutely going to use PVErs as cannon fodder. But if you follow my advice it won’t be you.
Glad to see you back around here, LOL. Lets also not forget, it's not exactly like people wear a sign saying PVE'er on their chest. Sure you can see alliance rank, but as there are people with multiple GOs, that doesnt really say a whole lot. I would guess most of us had had the experience where we see what we think to be a "Squishy" player based on rank or CP, attack, and find out very quickly, oh that dude can play.
Midyear Mayhem is exactly that, Mayhem. It is the apex of chaotic zerg warfare in ESO. Opportunistic players are going to pounce on squishy targets on theopen battle field, and that's okay. Are most of them predominately PVE'ers, probably, but I also challenge that distinction as well. I have played more PVE than PVP over the years, but I don't consider myself a PVE'er exclusively, and in fact, midyear mayhem is far and away my favorite event.
Pretty sure you are arguing (and winning said argument) with someone that has barely tested the PVP waters, doesn't like to lose, and is unwilling to put the time/effort in to change that dynamic. PVP has a higher skill threshold than PVE. I wont say that mastering one is harder than the other, but a base level of competence is much harder to achieve in PVP. The problem is, people will never look inward, and always try to find excuses for what is almost always a skill gap.
Gankers are rare (at least ones that you need to worry about), insta deaths where you dont see what killed you are also extremely uncommon, and a basic PVP build is not hard to obtain. Sure you will get wrecked the first time you play PVP, but that is true with any video game I have ever played. Its easy to hide in a twelve man, pickup trial group. Not so easy to hide when other people (not NPCs) are actually trying to kill your character.
I appreciate your response, and I find this type of mentality the most common amongst PVPers. This is why I would not recommend an event that requires PVP to non-pvpers.
Well, as stated, I have spent far more time in PVE than PVP. Again, I will pushback on the distinction that all players fall into one of two buckets, PVE or PVP. I also disagree with your conclusion that you would not recommend and event like this. It was PVP events that got me into PVP in the first place and I am certainly not the only one. ESO events should touch all corners of content, and they do it pretty well. There is no law that says all players have to participate in or enjoy all of the scheduled events. I absolutely despise the thieves guild/dark brotherhood quest lines, but I dont rage about it when an event requires those activities. I make a choice to participate or not and live with the consequences. This game ultimately caters far more to PVEers than PVPers.
You obviously do not like to PVP. That is fine. It's not for everyone. Participate or don't, that is your decision to make. But I see no reason to hijack a thread about the start date of the event with your personal biases that dont seem to be shared by a majority of the people responding to this thread.
Now if you want to complain about PVP performance, I am with you, but that is a topic for a different thread.4 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a PvEer. I went 3 years without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil/Imperial City. The only reason I tried it in the end was discovering I really wanted the Legate Black dye at the same time as a MYM started!
If you want to play PvP like PvE (ie town quests or scouting missions), there's a good chance you'll get ganked. There will always be the idiots farming AP there. That way frustration and raging on the forum lies.
If you actually throw yourself into it tho, join a group and pay attention to what's going on (not so easy now I admit but still possible, plus there's plenty of casual PvP guilds you could join for the duration), you might find there's a bit more to it.
It's not hard to play as part of a group and there's a lot of different aspects to it for casuals. Yes there's the fighting but there's also tactics. How much can you get away with before getting caught? If you start attacking here, can you take there before anyone realises? It can be as much about avoiding fighting than anything else, especially if you're outnumbered. It's not just one thing.
Anyway, I would rather die repeatedly trying to capture a keep as part of a group, than to adds in a dungeon when someone just wants the bonus for soloing it and leaves everyone else behind, killing everything before anyone else can get there so you miss the rewards and have to wait 15m to try again. At least in Cyro the people killing you aren't supposed to be in your team.PS4 EU1 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would encourage any PvE players who are interested in Midyear Mayhem to give it a try. What have you got to lose?
That’s how I got started in PvP, I did 2 Midyear Mayhems on a stamblade with the typical PvE skill rotation and my regular dps gear. I am guessing this is the worst build to try to do this on and not use invisibility potions. I died a lot, but I zerged with my faction and fell in love with the action.
I tried a dedicated PvP toon and learned a few things, then created another PvP toon of a different class and I finally got one I could do fairly well with. I still die a lot, but everyone dies in Cyrodiil. Your faction buddies will revive you if you are out there fighting and doing your best.
I think that PvE gets players so comfortable with not dying that they just get too worked up about dying in PvP. It happens. You get revived or respawn and go at it again, no big deal. Why get upset about it?
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA2 -
FangOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
There's nothing to prove there, because your statement is just wrong.
Now, if you'd said something like "consistently successful PvP" instead of just "PvP," your statement would have been closer to fact, but would still have been inaccurate IMO.
Keep in mind, I'm not a PvPer except when forced into it by circumstances. I have my preferences set to auto-decline duels because I have no interest in duelling; I've never played a BG; and although I've been to Cyrodiil and the IC, I'm more interested in their PvE aspects than their PvP aspects.
If you wanna be a good PvP'er it most certintaly requires an overhaul of your entire character between PvP and PvE.
I agree that you can be useful in a zerg no matter what, as long as you're sieging, but that's not considered being good at PvP. That's just Pv'Dooring.
You even said it yourself, you're not a PvP'er so your option on what makes someone good at PvP really holds no water. All you did was discredit yourself.
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BenevolentBowd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I checked the calendar, http://benevolentbowd.ca/calendar/ shows that it starts Thursday.
That was my estimate. However, the official date was announced on twitter: January 28th.
https://twitter.com/TESOnlineMegaservers: PC NA (sometimes) / EU (sometimes) Xbox NA (mostly)
Luxury Furniture Gallery [PC/NA]: Moon-Sugar Meadow
Website:BenevolentBowd.ca, "Shared My Notes With the World to Help Others"
ESO Calendarmancer - Retired
#TeamStackableTreasureMaps0 -
BenevolentBowd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BenevolentBowd wrote: »I checked the calendar, http://benevolentbowd.ca/calendar/ shows that it starts Thursday.
That was my estimate. However, the official date was announced on twitter: January 28th.
https://twitter.com/TESOnline
Oops..Megaservers: PC NA (sometimes) / EU (sometimes) Xbox NA (mostly)
Luxury Furniture Gallery [PC/NA]: Moon-Sugar Meadow
Website:BenevolentBowd.ca, "Shared My Notes With the World to Help Others"
ESO Calendarmancer - Retired
#TeamStackableTreasureMaps1 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great. ESO communication has moved to Twitter instead of here?
Thank you for the information though. Now we can all screenshot the Tweet and communicate it to our friends by copying and pasting it in Discord.
...
Do better, Zos.
They're working from home though during these trying times. Let's be glad they were able to manage a tweet at least.
Working from home showed that the overall working Performance and quality increased. But not for ZOS, they use it as an excuse why 2020 went so Bad with bugs, delays and more.4 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »There's really been too many PVP events this year.
Considering PvP barely gets any new content or focus from ZoS I'd say that's fair.2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.
IDK, my guild has a Sunday PVP events open to all level 10+ players. Everyone has a blast and everyone makes Tier 3 rewards, enough RoTW to open all week and most get Rapids and their other Alliance skills in one afternoon on that character. Most of them have decided to come out every weekend on a different character or even on our random nightly PVP outings. The only crap thing about PVP at this point is the 12 person limit, as we have to create numerous groups when all we want to do is have fun as a team.Edited by Kwoung on January 21, 2021 6:24AM2 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thanks for the video. Just love bomb videos
Really wish console could get skill timers to better time Proximity Detonation and other skills.
Stay safe and have fun
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emma666✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
You do realize PvPers exist too, and ZoS already caters more than 90% of their content towards PvErs? Cry moreNymeria - Ebonheart - Grand Overlady - Imperial Templar - HavocI wish you good fortune in the wars to come.1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
There's nothing to prove there, because your statement is just wrong.
Now, if you'd said something like "consistently successful PvP" instead of just "PvP," your statement would have been closer to fact, but would still have been inaccurate IMO.
Keep in mind, I'm not a PvPer except when forced into it by circumstances. I have my preferences set to auto-decline duels because I have no interest in duelling; I've never played a BG; and although I've been to Cyrodiil and the IC, I'm more interested in their PvE aspects than their PvP aspects.
If you wanna be a good PvP'er it most certintaly requires an overhaul of your entire character between PvP and PvE.
I agree that you can be useful in a zerg no matter what, as long as you're sieging, but that's not considered being good at PvP. That's just Pv'Dooring.
You even said it yourself, you're not a PvP'er so your option on what makes someone good at PvP really holds no water. All you did was discredit yourself.
No, what I did was argue my counterpoints to the statement I'd quoted. That statement didn't say anything at all about "being good at PvP," it just said that "PvP"-- with no qualifiers-- requires those things, which it does not.
I also said a good bit more, but you evidently didn't bother to read it the first time, so I won't waste my time repeating it.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I would encourage any PvE players who are interested in Midyear Mayhem to give it a try. What have you got to lose?
That’s how I got started in PvP, I did 2 Midyear Mayhems on a stamblade with the typical PvE skill rotation and my regular dps gear. I am guessing this is the worst build to try to do this on and not use invisibility potions. I died a lot, but I zerged with my faction and fell in love with the action.
Same. I was skeptical/uneasy about PvP at first, but did what I had to to complete the events. But after getting used to dying a lot and fighting something smarter than scripted AI, I really started to enjoy the challlenge, and now it's my favorite thing to do in ESO.
Go into it with an open mind, and swallow your pride for a bit. You might be pleasantly surprised.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.3 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I would encourage any PvE players who are interested in Midyear Mayhem to give it a try. What have you got to lose?
That’s how I got started in PvP, I did 2 Midyear Mayhems on a stamblade with the typical PvE skill rotation and my regular dps gear. I am guessing this is the worst build to try to do this on and not use invisibility potions. I died a lot, but I zerged with my faction and fell in love with the action.
Same. I was skeptical/uneasy about PvP at first, but did what I had to to complete the events. But after getting used to dying a lot and fighting something smarter than scripted AI, I really started to enjoy the challlenge, and now it's my favorite thing to do in ESO.
Go into it with an open mind, and swallow your pride for a bit. You might be pleasantly surprised.
I was not interested in PVP and skipped the Midyear Mayhem events. As time goes by even a clumsy dunce like me gets a bit better so this time I'm game
I look forward to dying a lot and hopefully a lot of adrenaline kicks. Perhaps I will even improve.1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I look forward to "They've spawn camped the sewer doors" for the 900th time, as well as "Why is no one grouping up, [[insert keep] 911", followed by some name calling and trash talking in Cyro.
There's still a ton of PVP problems that need to be solved before I consider PVP worth my time, but I will still do the event because there's really no alternative.0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
I swear PVEers are the whiniest people in this game. We have to do PVE stuff we don’t like to get event tickets but we don’t whine about it we just do it. There’s literally a scouting quest you can do in Cyrodiil that will get you event tickets and you won’t even have to set eyes on an enemy player if you do it right.4 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
I swear PVEers are the whiniest people in this game. We have to do PVE stuff we don’t like to get event tickets but we don’t whine about it we just do it. There’s literally a scouting quest you can do in Cyrodiil that will get you event tickets and you won’t even have to set eyes on an enemy player if you do it right.
You whine about it all the time are you kidding? I constantly hear PVPers whine about how there's not enough events when the real issue is that there's not enough people in PVP.
Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 21, 2021 1:58PM2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUdW2bTa3Y
https://youtu.be/6qLbT--A-2wThis discussion has been closed.