Maintenance for the week of December 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
Mid year mayhem start date
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JavaRen✭✭✭✭✭PVP and dungeons are not alike, that is the point. If you are practiced and geared up for one you will have problems with the other.2 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »I just hope that MYM will be Cyro OR IC quests, not both... so we could chose.
Previously it was 1 event ticket for Cyro daily and 1 event ticket for IC daily - so you did not had any choice but you had to do both. This caused so much unnecessary traffic and queue times (people were queued for both Cyro & IC).
Also... IC kinda sucks and is ultra-toxic. It is small area with a lot of ppl with mixed PvE & PvP... So even if you make a stealth - build and sneak to avoid being zerged down - it is still very annoying & even stressful to some degree.
It would be nice if we could "chose" - Cyro or IC or BGs to get event tickets this time.
I've taken to doing all the days worth of IC quests on a bunch of toons before the event when the IC is still pretty quiet and you can get things done there without having to worry as much about the toxic gankers and rolling balls of werewolves. It's still stressful but MUCH less than during the event and then all you have to do is go into the sewers once a day and turn a quest in for your tickets. The only annoying part about doing it is going up and down the ladders to collect all the dailies first so you can just go district to district.
I'm actually kind of tempted to jump into a super dead Cyro campaign (lmao all of them then?) and get the dailies all done there too so I just have to turn them in each day as well, since ZoS doesn't like my previous awful behaviour of "healing randos I'm not grouped with".
I agree with you completely on the IC quests. I've only done 2 so far, but my thief is good for an easy 6 some time, so I don't have THAT many more to grind out.
I actually have done Cyrodiil scouting quests on all 18 of my characters already, which is excessive.
3 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »I just hope that MYM will be Cyro OR IC quests, not both... so we could chose.
Previously it was 1 event ticket for Cyro daily and 1 event ticket for IC daily - so you did not had any choice but you had to do both. This caused so much unnecessary traffic and queue times (people were queued for both Cyro & IC).
Also... IC kinda sucks and is ultra-toxic. It is small area with a lot of ppl with mixed PvE & PvP... So even if you make a stealth - build and sneak to avoid being zerged down - it is still very annoying & even stressful to some degree.
It would be nice if we could "chose" - Cyro or IC or BGs to get event tickets this time.
I've taken to doing all the days worth of IC quests on a bunch of toons before the event when the IC is still pretty quiet and you can get things done there without having to worry as much about the toxic gankers and rolling balls of werewolves. It's still stressful but MUCH less than during the event and then all you have to do is go into the sewers once a day and turn a quest in for your tickets. The only annoying part about doing it is going up and down the ladders to collect all the dailies first so you can just go district to district.
I'm actually kind of tempted to jump into a super dead Cyro campaign (lmao all of them then?) and get the dailies all done there too so I just have to turn them in each day as well, since ZoS doesn't like my previous awful behaviour of "healing randos I'm not grouped with".
I've never tried that before. That will get you through 6 days before you have to go back in, right?0 -
UGotBenched91✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.8 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »I agree with you completely on the IC quests. I've only done 2 so far, but my thief is good for an easy 6 some time, so I don't have THAT many more to grind out.
I actually have done Cyrodiil scouting quests on all 18 of my characters already, which is excessive.
Doesn't sound excessive to me, it's just real nice to log in each day and turn it a quest in the starter area!
I've never tried that before. That will get you through 6 days before you have to go back in, right?
Yep! Per toon, anyway. I do it on enough toons in advance to have one quest to turn in each day so I never have to go in during the event unless I absolutely want to (I don't).
I recommend going up and down the ladders and collecting each quest first because then you don't have to go back through the sewers to turn it in and go up the next ladder for the next one, you can just go from district to district.
BUT if that feels a bit hairy for you, after you complete each quest (of if you're concerned about losing tel var) you can find somewhere relatively safe to hide, crouch (because that stops other alliance players from seeing you unless they're close), choose a Cyro campaign and that will port you into Cyro, then you can choose the IC campaign again and port into your base and bank.
Also don't open the reward boxes and the tel var sacks they have unless you're immediately banking your tel var if you're going back into IC for more quests, so you don't risk losing any of the rewards ones. 1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO announcements via Twitter isn't new, and that tweet wasn't actually an announcement, just a brief response to someone's question. We'll still see an official announcement here, with all the details, when it's closer to the event.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.10 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@PizzaCat82 You don't speak for all non-PvPers.
The lack of anyone in Cyro and IC speaks for itself. I don't need to argue my points.Its obvious.
And the moment anyone enters they get ganked, zerged, or worse...and groups? Even more rare now then when the game started thanks to the PVP changes.8 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »There's really been too many PVP events this year.
The year barely started....20 days ago
If speaking of last year there been 3 (2 1/2)
2x the midyear mayhem(january and june)
1× the imperial city dlc aniversary event
We got 2 dedicated pvp event on about 16 event(4 per quarter)
And imperial city was also doable via dungeon wich arent pvp
Even counting the imperial city as purly pvp(wich is not) we got 3vs13 in favor of pve
Seeing this game is mostly a pve game
I think this is a good compromise0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvPers have been asking for more PvP events for the last couple of years. I'm not really a PvPer-- much more of a PvEr-- but personally, I think it's great that ZOS has ever-so-slightly increased the number of PvP events.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!2 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
LOTS AND LOTS OF PvP gear at traders this week. Plus PvP guildies will give you uncollected sets for nothing. Just put on one of those, wear impen, take a tank with a damage proc set, if you have one, and fight npc's at RSS and do the easier hand in quests. Make invisibility potions and immovable potions. Run a source of major expedition. RAT is good.
Grouping will be more difficult because only 12 can group in Cyro...so there will be lots of premades. Most guilds will plan PvP runs instead of the trials/dungeon farms. Join them and be carried.
Change your CP if you are going to do lots of quests. Do at least one session in CP enabled. The NoCP campaign is much harder on PvE players, imo....particularly capped ones. (Avoid Grey Host the 30 day campaign, too.)
There will be better guides, but these types of changes are what PvPers do routinely when doing event PvE or gear farming.
I do PvE a great deal. It's swings and roundabouts with events. It's PvPers turn on the swing
PSA:
PLEASE NOTE HEALS ONLY WORK ON YOURSELF OR YOUR GROUP>pre make a group to go in if you are support. You are unlikely to get in one as healer or support thru LFGs.
You can't heal surf or heal rams of randoms or heal breeches unless it's your group you are healing.(edit: or yourself)
Edited by aetherial_heavenn on January 20, 2021 4:57AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos3 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Remember that time they gave out the start date for like, an entire quarter's events?
Remember how nice that was?
But didn't they then change the dates of some, and everyone raged because they'd made plans around them? I seem to remember a lot of "how can they do this, I booked time off!" posts
I thought that happened when an event malfunctioned after a day or two and they couldn't get it fixed, so they canceled the rest of the event.
0 -
Michae✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are some Crown Store items in the showcase that come in on 21st so my bet's also on 28th for the start of MM.UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
Not bashing, I just wanted to correct something, since I see this argument everywhere. You don't really need any gear for normal dungeons. You can complete them without problems, although a bit slower, without any gear set, not just without PvE set. So don't sell me this symmetrism. Dungeons are nice, fast and easy, and there's not that much events that require you to visit them too. Even less than PvP ones in fact sinc we only got the undaunted event. All the other pvp events are the casual "do some daily" or "kill a boss". PvP on the other hand can be much more frustrating. Players new to it die very easily and don't really have a learning curve, on top of that you have to traverse back to where you were since you can't respawn on the spot. I think that's where the most frustration's coming from. In normal dungeons you rarely get one shot to death and you can get back into action almost instantly. In Cyro you stare at your mount's butt for 10 minutes only to get killed right on top of your objective if you're unlucky and then you have to stare at the mount's butt some more. IC has this whole Tel Var and multiple loading screens thing. I enjoy my dose of IC but I get it's not everybody's thing and the entry bar is far higher than for any PvE event.Edited by Michae on January 20, 2021 8:14AM"I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
―Sotha Sil
@Michae PC/EU1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »
@PizzaCat82PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I’d say it’s more of an event for PvP players too enjoy compared to the many pve events through the year. If pve players join that’s great but you should be properly geared and ready to face other players. Just like PvP players have to be during pve events that take us into dungeons.
Please don't compare PVP to joining dungeons. I've done every dungeon in this game, most on HM. Its nothing like PVP.
@PizzaCat82
Yes, my friend. That's the point. You wouldn't be able to take that build that you completed the dungeons with and succeed successfully at PVP and you shouldn't. Juts like my PVP toon wouldn't be able to complete dungeon content during an event as as well as my PVE character. You complained that the event is just an excuse for PVE players to die. So, if you don't want to die a lot trying to do the event you should dedicate a toon to PVP and use that toon or respect and have PVP gear during the event.
This PVP stigma this community has created needs to end for the sake of all players.
The PVP stigma is created and maintained every visit to IC and Cyro. PVPers make everyone else hate PVP.
Sorry but this is just not true. Actually it sounds like you never even tried. Try it, you would discover that most PvP players are actually more talkative and also more helpful than most players you meet in PvE content. Why is this? Because PvP actually requires a bit of social interaction.5 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.Edited by Eedat on January 20, 2021 2:42PM11 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE.
Prove to me that PVP doesn't require complete rebuilding of CP, gear, skills, and a healthy amount of PVP items (siege, pots, oil, etc)
Prove to me that PVP isn't more frustrating (combat bugs, people using any glitch to take keeps, pre-made groups being almost mandatory now)
I'm not against PVP. It was done great in other games. It was fun for a time before they fine tuned it.3 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
7 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
Well its certainly a new way to argue on the internet. "I refuse to debate with you because you think you're right"
I know what my experiences have been in IC and Cyro. I know the threads that pop up when these events start and things start going to heck in a handbasket. These are not my opinions, but they are my experiences, and they can be different for me than for anyone else. That doesn't make them invalid, or more valid than yours.
I can admit that in the right group, with the right setup, and the right circumstances (and even the right system) things can be decent for PVP.. Someone's gotta win, for all these people getting ganked and killed, right? Its a zero sum game for PVP.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 3:26PM0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And personally, I think 1 Mayhem/ IC event per year is enough. I don't like them but I get that maybe some people might. Still doesn't change the state of PVP which wouldn't even need an event if they made it fun and accessible.1 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
Well its certainly a new way to argue on the internet. "I refuse to debate with you because you think you're right"
I know what my experiences have been in IC and Cyro. I know the threads that pop up when these events start and things start going to heck in a handbasket. These are not my opinions, but they are my experiences, and they can be different for me than for anyone else. That doesn't make them invalid, or more valid than yours.
I can admit that in the right group, with the right setup, and the right circumstances (and even the right system) things can be decent for PVP.. Someone's gotta win, for all these people getting ganked and killed, right? Its a zero sum game for PVP.
You aren't right. There is no "correct" opinion. You are asking for proof for something that quite literally cannot be proven one way or the other because it is not fact.
You want to see how ridiculous this argument is? PROVE to me that no players prefer PVP over PVE.
Oh, you can't? Well well. Guess that makes me factually correct.
Logical argument amirite?Edited by Eedat on January 20, 2021 3:59PM4 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭For me, pvp is 199% more fun and easy than hm vet dungeons or trials
In pvp you can't see some guide for mechs, you never know what will come for you and when. It's fun, no?
I'm a little ehh about the event, because the campaings will be too crowded. I wish they would allow more folks in at the same time and bigger fights, but of course the whole game would collapse. But yes, will be there i didn't take part in undaunted event at all, you know, you don't have to take part in it if you don't want to. 4 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
Well its certainly a new way to argue on the internet. "I refuse to debate with you because you think you're right"
I know what my experiences have been in IC and Cyro. I know the threads that pop up when these events start and things start going to heck in a handbasket. These are not my opinions, but they are my experiences, and they can be different for me than for anyone else. That doesn't make them invalid, or more valid than yours.
I can admit that in the right group, with the right setup, and the right circumstances (and even the right system) things can be decent for PVP.. Someone's gotta win, for all these people getting ganked and killed, right? Its a zero sum game for PVP.
You aren't right. There is no "correct" opinion. You are asking for proof for something that quite literally cannot be proven one way or the other because it is not fact.
You want to see how ridiculous this argument is? PROVE to me that no players prefer PVP over PVE.
Oh, you can't? Well well WELL. Guess that makes me factually correct.
Logical argument amirite?
Do you have an opinion on the matter or are you just going to keep attacking me personally? I don't mind either way.0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
Well its certainly a new way to argue on the internet. "I refuse to debate with you because you think you're right"
I know what my experiences have been in IC and Cyro. I know the threads that pop up when these events start and things start going to heck in a handbasket. These are not my opinions, but they are my experiences, and they can be different for me than for anyone else. That doesn't make them invalid, or more valid than yours.
I can admit that in the right group, with the right setup, and the right circumstances (and even the right system) things can be decent for PVP.. Someone's gotta win, for all these people getting ganked and killed, right? Its a zero sum game for PVP.
You aren't right. There is no "correct" opinion. You are asking for proof for something that quite literally cannot be proven one way or the other because it is not fact.
You want to see how ridiculous this argument is? PROVE to me that no players prefer PVP over PVE.
Oh, you can't? Well well WELL. Guess that makes me factually correct.
Logical argument amirite?
Do you have an opinion on the matter or are you just going to keep attacking me personally? I don't mind either way.
I just did address your argument lol. Your argument is not logical. It's a literal fallacy. "If you can't prove me factually wrong, I'm right" is NOT an argument. This is the flying spaghetti monster euphemism. 'Well you can't prove it doesn't exist, so it must exist'.
How are you going to prove my claim wrong? You don't have to prove mine wrong but I have to prove yours wrong? Could it be because they're both not real arguments and you're well aware of that?4 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
This can't be serious.
These kind of over dramatic fantasies are why we don't get dev responses anymore here. This forum is WILDLY over negative. Far more negative than the actual community. Responding here is a trap. There is no correct answer to give about anything without people waiting to ambush them with unwavering opinions that are utterly unwilling to change. Reasonable discussion is rare. What's far more common is a minefield of preconstructed traps from people who have absolutely zero intention of listening to others. Everything in the game needs to be completely catered to their individual playstyle or else.
Heaven forbid they do events for content that a specific person doesn't enjoy. It can't just be unfortunate that someone doesn't like an event. NO NO NO. It's a personal attack on that person. It's a purely malicious decision for the sole purpose so the devs can laugh at people's misery behind closed doors.
Everything is crazy over dramatized. I saw a thread taking about starting locations for new characters. Now that would be a reasonable thread except it can't just be that. No no no. It's "disrespect" to the lore. A direct attack on it actually right? The crown store is "predatory". Anyone who puts time into doing something well is an "elitist". Etc etc
That's this forum in a nutshell.
In the future they should warp the entire game and events around one person's preference. If anyone likes other things, they are factually incorrect and should be purged from the player base.
The only one taking it personally is you.
Prove to me that PVP is more accessible and fun than PVE....
Annnnd stopped here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of those traps I was explaining. "Prove my opinion" lol. You are aware your preference is not law and you aren't the ambassador of every player in the game?
Well its certainly a new way to argue on the internet. "I refuse to debate with you because you think you're right"
I know what my experiences have been in IC and Cyro. I know the threads that pop up when these events start and things start going to heck in a handbasket. These are not my opinions, but they are my experiences, and they can be different for me than for anyone else. That doesn't make them invalid, or more valid than yours.
I can admit that in the right group, with the right setup, and the right circumstances (and even the right system) things can be decent for PVP.. Someone's gotta win, for all these people getting ganked and killed, right? Its a zero sum game for PVP.
You aren't right. There is no "correct" opinion. You are asking for proof for something that quite literally cannot be proven one way or the other because it is not fact.
You want to see how ridiculous this argument is? PROVE to me that no players prefer PVP over PVE.
Oh, you can't? Well well WELL. Guess that makes me factually correct.
Logical argument amirite?
Do you have an opinion on the matter or are you just going to keep attacking me personally? I don't mind either way.
TBF I haven't read anything he has said about you personally. Not trying to incite you further, but he hasn't said anything I would deem personal. Unless you believe someone not validating your hate for PvP to be personal?Edited by relentless_turnip on January 20, 2021 4:27PM6 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭The event will start at 28 January 2021. Details will come ...Here it is the tweet :Edited by Agalloch on January 20, 2021 4:41PM2
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.Edited by PizzaCat82 on January 20, 2021 4:57PM5 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
All I've done is argue against points you've brought up. You've tried to twist that into me personally attacking you which is ridiculous. I'm not the one who asked for proof for a bunch of ridiculous statements either. That was you. That was the argument you typed out and put forward. I can only respond to the arguments you put forward. Now you're trying to move the goalpost and say that's not what you asked for when it's very obviously what you asked for.
Barrier of entry for this event. Looking at the map to see where the fight is then running around tagging things with spells is too much? That is what you're saying "inaccessable" is? You get infinite revives. There is nothing demanding "you must maintain a 10 to 1 kill to death ratio". You're saying needing gear is a huge barrier? But you don't need BiS gold gear to PvE or PVP. Or is anything less than being equal to people who have put hundreds or thousands of hours of effort into something unfair? Do the hardcore PvEers not have an advantage in the undaunted event too? They can farm dungeons five times faster than some people. But people can still participate in that just like they can participate in MyM. Even if they aren't the absolute most efficient at it.
Edited by Eedat on January 20, 2021 7:37PM3 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Its a bit of a fallacy, but I was hoping you'd at least counter my assumptions. When I say "prove me wrong" I simply meant "provide a counter example or argument". Its not a PHD thesis.
PVP is unfriendly to new and casual players, and doesn't need to be unfriendly. It needs to be the opposite if it wants people to stay. These events can be fun, but for a lot of people they are a pain.
"3 vs 13" doesn't matter, because they don't do "morrowind" 3 times a year, or undaunted more than once. You can't lump PVE in the same group when its absolutely not the same activitiies and then wonder why people don't want to farm IC bosses hoping not to get ganked for the 3rd time in a row.
1. The players are discouraged from creating random groups due to smaller group size and healing changes.
2. The change to Rapids discourages people without 60 in mount speed from travelling in Cyro.
3. There's no "Beginner's area" for PVP. The guy that can 1v12 or the emperor is going to finish anyone not geared, cp, and potted correctly in less than 2 seconds. and PVP is full of builds that are unkillable and just wait for the procs to demolish everyone else. This makes fighting 1v1 or even 6v1 a pain.
4. IC is designed for groups jumping questers. Its the whole point of the area. It used to be possible to navigate it in stealth, but during the event the groups tend to know where the best hiding spots are, and they LOVE to kill them. The easiest way to be left alone in IC is to run with a group and don't stealth at all. Which is harder because of point 1.
So my opinion that 1. PVP is extremely tailored and catered to people who live and breath PVP while PVE can be run through without so much as a single change in gear, cp, or skills This is what I like to call inaccessable.
If being inaccessible is fun, challenging, and a thrill to you, thats fine. I can see you arguing that point. It aint fun if everyone can do it.
But do I really need a poll to see that its not for everyone? I mean Vet dungeons aren't for everyone, and that's fine. But the undaunted events don't require VET. They require a warm body who knows how to use the group finder at best.
I mean at some point you're either going to either accept my assumptions or present your own. But you seem to be raging at the fact that I make them and can't prove them, like they're some math equation. Chillax.
I have encountered far more toxicity in dungeons and PVE content than I ever have in PvP. I find elitism seems to be more rife their as the path to success is more linear and thus the tolerance for anything outside what is expected is far less.
I think people assume the unfriendliness of pvp because the aim is to kill one another. You are aware that it is a person killing you as oppose a mob with a predetermined set of attacks. People tend to take their losses more personally because of this.
If you are referring to the skill gap between someone starting PvP and someone who is experienced I agree. It isn't beginner friendly.
I don't see this an issue though, as most MMOs have a steep curve in terms of player ability. With other MMOs you also have a massive gear disparity too.
I think it comes down to whether you enjoy the content enough to try and get better at it.
I appreciate our experiences are totally different though.
I wouldn't take my PvP characters to a trial and expect to succeed, I would be aware I need to change gear, cp etc.... I think this is generally accepted by most and many choose to make Alts to simplify this process. In terms of PvP accessibility it can all be bought on a guild trader or crafted. It takes all of 15 minutes to be able to compete. To succeed in a trial takes an equal amount of practice to perform acceptably enough to compete. Gear however is more expensive and harder to acquire.7
https://youtu.be/6qLbT--A-2wThis discussion has been closed.