Nerf jabs to make templar great again (warning: sarcasm inside)

Pixiepumpkin · December 2020

No

buff magicka templar

ArchMikem · December 2020

Yes

Its an "I Win" button for all content and Templar Mains will defend it viciously.

Here's a little rule I've discovered in ESO. If a very vocal majority of the community defends something from being nerfed, it most likely deserves to be nerfed.

Pixiepumpkin · December 2020

No

buff magicka templar, jabs is the only thing they have going and its not too good

iksde · December 2020

Yes

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

buff magicka templar, jabs is the only thing they have going and its not too good

and so if this is their only good thing....then it is good for last nail into coffin and just raze into ground to rework class entirely if this is so bad this have only 1 single skill making them this called class if ZOS cant do anything with current skills besides jsut more nerfing jsut to add their loss as buff to another (bought) class

katanagirl1 · December 2020

No

Forgive me for not taking the time to watch the video when I saw the word “dps”.

I play a stamplar in PvP Cyrodiil, it is the only class that seems to work for me but I feel like I am the hardest working player there.

Most classes seem to be able to remove my POTL and if I have to cleanse myself much I do not have enough magicka to do so since I’m stamina and it’s a magicka skill, it takes half my resource pool for one cleanse.

Jabs are not the only skill I use.

Afterip · January 2021

Yes

As main templar, I voted YES. Since the current situation with jabs makes it difficult to see the full picture of how bad the templar's other skills are. So the nerf of the main and only attacking skill will push ZOS to rebalance the entire class and hopefully for the better.

mairwen85 · January 2021

No

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

buff magicka templar, jabs is the only thing they have going and its not too good

I'm not sure I can agree with you on mag-jabs. Magplar has taken a few hits the last few patches, but jabs is far from the best thing you have in your kit as mag-dps. To quote an earlier portion of this conversation:

mairwen85 wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

There is undeniable evidence that templar is underperforming in most roles, and threads like that show that people realise it.

There are only 3 roles, so 'most' is an unnecessary qualifier. Please provide undeniable evidence for all 3.

Oh, sorry. I did not mean in the sense of the 3 roles as in healer/tank/dps. What I mean is solo pve (overland, solo arenas, soloing world bosses / dungeons)/ dungeon pve (heal, tank, dd) / trial pve (heal, tank, dd), pvp (solo, duo, small scale, large group, further separated into heal, dd, tank, other, further separated into cp/no cp). Sorry if my use of "role" was innapopriate, I don't know what else to call it.

I already provided undeniable evidence for the pvp aspect (which covers half of the "roles"), and tank role (which covers many of the pve roles). Templar is actually decent for the heal role (bested only by warden, and arguably necro) so I cannot provide evidence there. Templar is also good for solo pve, but that is again due to sweeps (magicka jabs).

I stand by my argument, templar is underperforming in most "roles".

From a pve dps perspective in group content, personally I don't use jabs on my magplar, and I don't feel many others do either seeing as they can hit much harder with other mag based spammables, making mag-jabs more situational for magplar than stamplar (where it is the primary spammable); however, at the same time, for any other stam dps the spammable of choice will be rapid strikes (dw) or wrecking blow (2h)--arguably jabs serves as an in-class spammable for stamplar which means there is no need to use either of those. In my view, this means that other class stamina spammables are underperforming or unavailable as they have no viable alternative. So nerfing jabs will only result in stamplars being forced to use out-of-class weapon-line skills in its place and homogenize the class much more to the rest of the stam-pack. So, perhaps the question is not whether to nerf jabs, but buff or provide viable in-class spammables for other classes? Missing out on other skills that said classes have is possibly the trade off at this point (ZOS balance). I agree it doesn't have to be that way and certainly more role specific skills should be baked into the templar kit, but unlike the newer classes, that's not where we are. A full class overhaul is much more relevant to provide those 3 line separation that necro and warden have in my opinion, not exclusive to templar.

Mag dps is all about the layered damage, regardless of class. Your spammable is just to run the clock out on your dots. Unlike stam where it's more about flurry, stick and move, where spammables are the primary source of damage. It worries me when anyone who plays magplar cries foul on jabs being weak, you have so much more in the kit for jabs to justly be no more than dps padding, and it will always be a situational choice for magplar anyway. Most encounters you'll be much stronger and hit much harder with elemental weapon/force pulse. On the stam side, nerfing jabs will just mean using rapid strikes. The entire argument of this thread is a veiled attempt at "get rid of what killed me", and nothing more.My advice, learn your class strengths and weaknesses, and use them to your advantage.

Afterip wrote: »

As main templar, I voted YES. Since the current situation with jabs makes it difficult to see the full picture of how bad the templar's other skills are. So the nerf of the main and only attacking skill will push ZOS to rebalance the entire class and hopefully for the better.

Templar is in a good position to play most roles, tanking only misses a decent CC and health based heal; healing is fine as is; dps (mag) is on par with other classes for the most part despite being knocked down a few pegs and still offers decent enough group utiltiy to be included in trials; dps (stam) is simple and easy, and hits hard enough to be included too, but could use a few tweaks to lift skills like potl back to where they belong, but it's in a good spot with a performant in-class spammable which retains identity (cannot be said for all classes equally). Of the original 4 class, templar is closest in terms of separated skill design to the newer classes, but what is really needed rather than endless nerf/buff cycles is complete overhaul of the base classes to bring them in line with the role based design we see in warden and necro.

Nordic__Knights · January 2021

3 years now you really think one more post is going to help lol zos likes that they are 1 skill wonders new players have an class to play

peacenote · January 2021

No

I get the sarcasm but no, thank you. Not sure if there are any vampire defenders left but I would hate to see my beloved templar be "rebuilt" the way vampire was. I have at least two characters in every class and my templar is the most fun for me to play.

The articles cited are all PvP focused while the video is for PvE. That falsely gives the impression this is a clear, consistent "issue" across the class any way that it is used.

Regarding PvP: Many of the quoted threads all have participants explaining how the move can be countered. But let's pretend jabs truly is this ridiculously overpowered PvP ability. We all know that blindly changing a class due to a PvP issue also vastly improves it for PvE... please let's do THAT some more! (A little sarcasm of my own there).

Regarding PvE: First, dominating the parse mini-game with an ability says almost nothing about how the class and its abilities are used in real content. Show me ESO logs with all DPS templars only using jabs in real trials, or how in ESO logs stamplars don't exist because secretly they are the only broken class and thus missing from all runs, and then we'll talk. Second, not only are there DPS magplars but there are lots of templar HEALERS, like myself. I enjoy using the ability in certain scenarios and I'd hate to see it be nerfed to the ground and lose a space on my bar because of a stamplar one-bar parse build.

We shouldn't have to lose something to see improvements with the templar class (or any class!) and the real issue is ZOS's stubborn "no-exceptions" adherence to the ability standardization initiative which has ruined what we all loved about many unique class abilities across the board. Templars definitely need some TLC, as do other classes, but ruining an ability to "reveal" the rest of its weaknesses is not the way to go. And I don't even think it's true that the class is relying only on this one ability in all scenarios to keep it alive.

AinSoph · January 2021

Yes

I can understand the concept of destruction and rebirth in the relation to this suggestion but as this is ZOS we're talking about they'd probably go warmonger on the destruction part and use essential oils for the rebirth part.

rpa · January 2021

I was actually thinking to try again playing whoever of my cobwebbiest chars was the one with jabs. Are you implying it might be a bad idea?

prof_doom · January 2021

No

I don't think you can do anything to jabs until AFTER you rework other things.
For example, after the Burning Light rework, there's pretty much no good way to trigger that now other than jabs.
The fact that every other skill you might consider using is less helpful than another jab says as much about the rest of the skillset as it does about jabs.

Jabs should be both unique and useful. As it is, 90% of recommended builds use the same spammables regardless of class (elemental weapon or Force Pulse for MagDPS, weapon line spammable for stamDPS).

Other classes have spammables, you just don't use them.