Nerf jabs to make templar great again (warning: sarcasm inside)
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pink_panther✭✭✭Novolkeswagon wrote: »Show how my stamplar can get 100k dps. I can't even get 15k.
This patch its 96k. https://liko.gg/content/4261/liko-stamina-templar-pve-build-(96k+)-dwbow-stonethorn-elder-scrolls-online-eso0 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoNo, don't nerf templar. Nerf sorc.
But what you are saying here can be said for other classes as well, let's compare it to sorc:
No debuffs and only half the amount of buffs templar has (please don't start about brutality/sorcery).
No useful hard CC for the mobility/ranged class (can you believe it).
No reliable class burst heal or resource management (they have two strong, but both have a cast time and using them both is just a death sentence).
Even more useless passive than templar.
A lot of similar skills on other classes have more utility or effects packed in them.
Encase sucks, except in ball groups.
Rune prison is debately the worst stun in the game.
Daedric mines is expensive and situational, has better alternatives.
Bound armour, really? Sorcs already have barspace problems, unless you want a two button rotation.
Fury is a weak execute, only useful in tight execute windows in PvE and a noob killer in PvP.
Liquid splash is an expensive and low damage class AoE.
That is also 6 useless skills.
But sorcs still manage to rule the battlefield in Cyrodiil and are easiest class for solo PvE, why if they are so bad?
Because they have some high tooltip numbers on important skills. Frags deals a ton of damage, shields are big, surge is a very high off heal, overload hits like a truck.
For templar can be said the same. Jabs has very high damage tooltip, temp has a lot of crit bonuses, very high magicka based heals, a lot of utility and a brutal stun.
Learn your classes strength and rotation, that is more important than asking for nerfs and buffs.0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Have you maybe considered that it's because they are not, in fact bad at all?But sorcs still manage to rule the battlefield in Cyrodiil and are easiest class for solo PvE, why if they are so bad?
Yeah thanks, haven't thought of that yet. /sLearn your classes strength and rotation, that is more important than asking for nerfs and buffs.
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caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoHave you maybe considered that it's because they are not, in fact bad at all?
Yes, that is why I explained why I think temps are strong in their way.
The class is not overpacked like warden or necro, but if you use it correctly it is pretty strong.0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Yes
So what is correctly? Spam jabs 24/7 on a parse dummy for a nice 100k DPS? Because that's all that is strong about templars at the moment.
Yes, that is why I explained why I think temps are strong in their way.
The class is not overpacked like warden or necro, but if you use it correctly it is pretty strong.
I'm very sad I cannot find the tank poll thread, because the community decided by a wide margin that templar tanks are the worst of all 6 classes.
Here is the community agreeing that they are at the bottom of the barrel in pvp: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547968/pvp-tierlist-for-stonethorn/
The templar class is broken, that is a fact. Stop arguing against it.4 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoSo what is correctly? Spam jabs 24/7 on a parse dummy for a nice 100k DPS? Because that's all that is strong about templars at the moment.
I'm very sad I cannot find the tank poll thread, because the community decided by a wide margin that templar tanks are the worst of all 6 classes.
Here is the community agreeing that they are at the bottom of the barrel in pvp: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547968/pvp-tierlist-for-stonethorn/
The templar class is broken, that is a fact. Stop arguing against it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/538643/worst-class-for-tank/p1
Here you go, Templar 40% for tanks.
Since then they've only gotten worse with this next patch coming up.1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoSo what is correctly? Spam jabs 24/7 on a parse dummy for a nice 100k DPS? Because that's all that is strong about templars at the moment.
I'm very sad I cannot find the tank poll thread, because the community decided by a wide margin that templar tanks are the worst of all 6 classes.
Here is the community agreeing that they are at the bottom of the barrel in pvp: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547968/pvp-tierlist-for-stonethorn/
The templar class is broken, that is a fact. Stop arguing against it.
You choose to completely ignore the part where I stated what is strong about templar.
Your argument about templars being weak is built around fallacies and I proved that with the argument about sorcs.
I know about the thread that templars are the weakest tanking class, I've read that one as well. But that is completely irrelevant. Not all classes are a jack-of-all-trades. Templars simply don't have the right utility skills to be a tank, but they shine in other roles.
Having a templar in your group brings vital synergies and buffs for both PvP and PvE.
Templar has one of the best stuns in the game, a game where everything in PvP is about killing your opponent in a short burst window after a stun.
Stamina templar though could do with a buff considering self heals or other forms of defence.0 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭Yesthe best thing is this BS skill have same performance in PVP its AOE dot 1 skill kill - and yet ppl cry about NB's.0
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
Yes, that is why I explained why I think temps are strong in their way.
The class is not overpacked like warden or necro, but if you use it correctly it is pretty strong.
The class is underwhelming. For everything that you say is strong about a templar i can name something, universally agreed upon, that is underwhelming about them. There is more bad than good when it comes to templars.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For templar can be said the same. Jabs has very high damage tooltip, temp has a lot of crit bonuses, very high magicka based heals, a lot of utility and a brutal stun.
Learn your classes strength and rotation, that is more important than asking for nerfs and buffs.
Jabs has high tooltip damage, but no competent player will get hit by all jab ticks and a big part of its damage, burning light, will very rarely proc on any player that knows what they are doing.
Templars have 1 critical damage done bonus, which is a dead bonus since malacath is stronger than crit anyway, same with the major crit buff (if you even decide to slot sun fire that is). In PvE you have the major crit buffs anyway and the critical damage bonus doesnt matter very much since you stack an insane amount of critical damage anyway and it has diminishing returns (just ask khajit players how they feel about having critical damage done instead of weapon/spell damage or crit chance).
The "very high magicka based heals" actually heal less than arctic blast, coag when you lost some health and sorc matriarch.
Templar has toppling but unlike streak or fossilize toppling can actually get countered by something other than an immov potion and you dont have burst (outside proc sets) to follow it up with anyway since PL/Potl is a completely useless delayed "burst" ability in PvP right now.
On templar right now you can play a ranged magplar with proc sets and try to be a budget sorc with weaker heals, shields, mobilty, damage and burst, a melee magplar and be a weaker anything stam build with less mobility, damage, burst and if its stamden or stamcro or stamsorc weaker healing and survivability, or a stamplar and be a weaker anything stamina with no delayed burst, no class dots, no class heal, no class mobility. Sounds great doesnt it? Pretty much all of templars strength is in jabs since everything else, other classes do better than templar does and jabs gets mitigated by major evasion and is easy to atleast partially avoid.
I also find myself struggling to take someone serious who says that sorc has no reliable burst heal, resource management or hard cc when streak, matriarch and dark conversion respectively exist.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.7 -
Kaspar✭✭✭With all the speed enhancing in Cyrodiil I find it usually difficult to land jabs. Increasing the effect radius might help. Other under 5m melee skills, like from the sword and board tree are also difficult to use to the point of being more useless than not in PvP. With super powerful ground AoE in close melee combat seems almost dead to me.
On the upside, using Power of the Light with a bow light attack (so light attack, apply, light attack,re-apply) sounds like the DooM shotgun, or the Quake Super Shotgun. chick-boom-chick-BOOM-chick-BOOM. Only on the second application and thereafter does it reverb.0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoI think it would be best to avoid nerfing Templar's only good skill before ZOS fixes all the other skills. Otherwise you end up killing Templar. That would be a bad thing.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭NoI think it would be best to avoid nerfing Templar's only good skill before ZOS fixes all the other skills. Otherwise you end up killing Templar. That would be a bad thing.
If its not only a proc meta, there also is a speed meta to where I would argue templar would be already dead if not for a ton of potatoes. I have ran mine a bit the past week and a half, having to drop group when we get to 6 the past couple of days, and I run a lot of speed; but when you go to channel jabs, it does not snare you like people claim, but you can't sprint. So when I see others jab at me; I tap shift and move side and back or through depending on how hot they come in.
I keep at it making it work, but I have a feeling it will be completely futile against a good player rather than people that don't know how to avoid it or just want to stand there with a proc tank and take it.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesI think it would be best to avoid nerfing Templar's only good skill before ZOS fixes all the other skills. Otherwise you end up killing Templar. That would be a bad thing.
Thats the point. The toolkit is bad and its gonna take nothing short of a total revamp to have a decent templar and well thought out templar toolkit. I listed above 5 strong buffs they could do and it would barely make an impact in the mess that is templar. Go ahead try for yourself. Name 5 buffs that you would like to see and i bet you will still find far too many problems that are left with templars, to be happy even after 5 huge buffs.0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Make repentance a toggle buff.
Using repentance gives 3 minor recoveries for X amount of seconds to you and your group, if there are nearby bodies you restore health and stamina.0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭YesGrandchamp1989 wrote: »
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/538643/worst-class-for-tank/p1
Here you go, Templar 40% for tanks.
Since then they've only gotten worse with this next patch coming up.
That's the one, thanks! The sad reality is that they are also getting worse on other roles with the buff/debuff changes coming next patch (for example power of the light won't provide any unique debuff since pierce armor will provide minor breach as well).
There is undeniable evidence that templar is underperforming in most roles, and threads like that show that people realise it. But their judgement gets clouded because they are mad a templar killed them in pvp just by using one skill (jab jabbidty jabjabjab) so templar must be op. Nerf jabs, everyone will finally stop to think for 2 seconds and realiz how bad templars actually have it. Then after 5 months
we might get a rework.
I am once again asking you, nerf jabs to make templar great again
[snip]
[edited for real world politics]
Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 15, 2020 1:05PM0 -
Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoTemplar class is ponderous, Jabs is totally useless in PVP, at least against half decent players, and some of the like-for-like class passives are laughable as your comparison shows.
Templar class skills and passives are so far behind other classes that a major re-working is needed to bring it in line with standard.2 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Yes
There are only 3 roles, so 'most' is an unnecessary qualifier. Please provide undeniable evidence for all 3.
Oh, sorry. I did not mean in the sense of the 3 roles as in healer/tank/dps. What I mean is solo pve (overland, solo arenas, soloing world bosses / dungeons)/ dungeon pve (heal, tank, dd) / trial pve (heal, tank, dd), pvp (solo, duo, small scale, large group, further separated into heal, dd, tank, other, further separated into cp/no cp). Sorry if my use of "role" was innapopriate, I don't know what else to call it.
I already provided undeniable evidence for the pvp aspect (which covers half of the "roles"), and tank role (which covers many of the pve roles). Templar is actually decent for the heal role (bested only by warden, and arguably necro) so I cannot provide evidence there. Templar is also good for solo pve, but that is again due to sweeps (magicka jabs).
I stand by my argument, templar is underperforming in most "roles".0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
Oh, sorry. I did not mean in the sense of the 3 roles as in healer/tank/dps. What I mean is solo pve (overland, solo arenas, soloing world bosses / dungeons)/ dungeon pve (heal, tank, dd) / trial pve (heal, tank, dd), pvp (solo, duo, small scale, large group, further separated into heal, dd, tank, other, further separated into cp/no cp). Sorry if my use of "role" was innapopriate, I don't know what else to call it.
I already provided undeniable evidence for the pvp aspect (which covers half of the "roles"), and tank role (which covers many of the pve roles). Templar is actually decent for the heal role (bested only by warden, and arguably necro) so I cannot provide evidence there. Templar is also good for solo pve, but that is again due to sweeps (magicka jabs).
I stand by my argument, templar is underperforming in most "roles".
From a pve dps perspective in group content, personally I don't use jabs on my magplar, and I don't feel many others do either seeing as they can hit much harder with other mag based spammables, making mag-jabs more situational for magplar than stamplar (where it is the primary spammable); however, at the same time, for any other stam dps the spammable of choice will be rapid strikes (dw) or wrecking blow (2h)--arguably jabs serves as an in-class spammable for stamplar which means there is no need to use either of those. In my view, this means that other class stamina spammables are underperforming or unavailable as they have no viable alternative. So nerfing jabs will only result in stamplars being forced to use out-of-class weapon-line skills in its place and homogenize the class much more to the rest of the stam-pack. So, perhaps the question is not whether to nerf jabs, but buff or provide viable in-class spammables for other classes? Missing out on other skills that said classes have is possibly the trade off at this point (ZOS balance). I agree it doesn't have to be that way and certainly more role specific skills should be baked into the templar kit, but unlike the newer classes, that's not where we are. A full class overhaul is much more relevant to provide those 3 line separation that necro and warden have in my opinion, not exclusive to templar.Edited by mairwen85 on October 15, 2020 9:12AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, I agree. It sucks in PvP - at least in NO CP. You might as well be running around naked it dies so easily. Their shield move is like a bad joke. Even if you stack health it might absorb one hit from another player. If you're lucky.
On a game where you are being constantly barraged with 5~7k hits (and that's with max resistance and impenetrable) - and often at a distance from all sides - their defensive tools are just laughably bad.
If it wasn't for the fact I use other skill lines I would have already retired the class. Because it has an awful toolkit for PvP. Yeah - it can do some good damage against a training dummy. Whoop-dee-doo. If only other players just stood still and let you beat on them like a dummy without fighting back or moving that might actually be worth something. But I guess it is pretty awesome against AFK players. hahaEdited by Jeremy on October 16, 2020 9:18AM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
Yeah, I agree. It sucks in PvP - at least in NO CP. You might as well be running around naked it dies so easily. Their shield move is like a bad joke. Even if you stack health it might absorb one hit from another player.
On a game where you are being constantly barraged with 5~7k hits (and that's with max resistance and impenetrable) - and often at a distance from all sides - their defensive tools are just laughably bad.
If it wasn't for the fact I use other skill lines I would have already retired the class. Because it has an awful toolkit for PvP. Yeah - it can do some good damage against a training dummy. Whoop-dee-doo. If only other players just stood still and let you beat on them like a dummy without fighting back or moving that might actually be worth something. But I guess it is pretty awesome against AFK players. haha
Like mag sorc, it's a noob killer, but without the sorcy gloss and shine (and meat shields).
Edited by mairwen85 on October 16, 2020 9:19AM1 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesJabs is so strong it's holding the class back in many ways. Nerfing it to boost other skills would theoretically work but knowing ZOS they would just nerf jabs while continuing to nerf everything else.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr3 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoI don't play Templar but... This is a joke right? One thing I've learned is it's better to buff something to be comparable to other things than to nerf the other things into Oblivion. People like feeling like what they do has impact and matters, which is why nerfs leave a different impact than buffs.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1
