"Two separate issues that have overlap, but do not set the rule. So sorry, but no."

You are the one that tried to use Steam to set a rule. I pointed out the Steam numbers are not a true reflection of the games population.

"Spoken from someone with years of experience and forgetting about new players."

Funny thing here. I started a new account. Brand new character with nothing. I'm not using my main account to help my 2nd account at all. I joined two guilds. One of them gets a trader occasionally. I had two million in the bank before I hit cp 160. So no I am not forgetting about new players. I in a way am a new player.

"And the other truth is that a central auction house could bring players to the game and keep them around."

I saw another post higher up saying they just wanted the option to go to one location see the best price and buy it. Thing is a team of three people could sit on the auction house in shifts and monopolize any rare or semi rare item they wished. A small guild dedicated to cornering markets would easily do so. THe system in place makes that all but impossible. One guild managed it for about 18 hours a few years ago on a couple of rare items. Then all the people hoarding those particular items saw the price shoot up and the market was saturated. Prices went back down because the guild couldn't monitor all the traders. Not even using TTC could they do it. I doubt adding an auction house would become a selling point to bring players into the game. Getting rid of the trade system we have now would no doubt cause players to leave because for them trading is their end game.

"It is broken. Its a system that IS manipulated DAILY. Its a system that favors people who pour REAL LIFE $$$$ into the system. It's a system that wastes time (done intentionally to pad online number?!?!?). A Central auction house eliminates all of this."

How is the system manipulated that wouldn't be much worse with an auction house?

"Nope. Which indicates the game's population is not as healthy as claimed."

Maybe the population isn't as healthy as claimed. Maybe only a few (relative to the population) players are interested in trading. I rarely stumble across role playing groups. Doesn't mean the game is close to collapse. Just means players are doing other things. It is also rare I can go into a delve or group dungeon and not see at least one other player and often three or four. I have to race players to treasure chests all the time. That is not the sign of a low population. That is the sign of a healthy population and portion of that population that wishes to do so can take advantage of a thriving and stable economy.

Raideen wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You have NO clue what the player base is. You are making conjectures based on minimal evidence AND WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING (before I get yelled at again...) but we come to different conclusions. The truth is probably somewhere between the two numbers. So... somewhere between about 60,000 and 500,000 per server.

I can tell you as a 100% absolute the active player base is no where NEAR 500k per server. Not even close. The design of the game does not permit it, the server architecture does not permit it. Even during the busiest times in game there is no where NEAR that amount of people in the world, even with the 2nd phase.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

It okay to be pessimistic about it, but I believe that we'd be seeing much different things if they were in fact that low.

I am not being pessimistic, but realistic. You know the saying right?

"Realists are viewed as pessimists by optimists.

There is a huge difference between CONCURRENT players (number of players on at one time) and the total population of players that play. I only put 500k because that is the upper limit of the numbers that ZoS "says" plays the game. Please don't imply that I am coming up with that number myself. (That's the problem that EU has, because it's so compact and most players are in 2-3 time zones they're all trying to play at the same time. Whereas the NA server, while the populations are similar, NA is much more spread out, you have players in 4 times zones in NA/SA, and then another 5/6 time zones for AU and SE Asia players, so you have fewer concurrent players)

Not everybody who plays is on 24/7.

Steam counts CONCURRENT players, so you can safely multiply that by 4, 5, maybe even 6 to get a rough estimate of the daily number of TOTAL players on Steam. I'd bet most players don't spend more than 2-3 hours a day playing, some not everyday, and they start and stop at different times. Even that alone, steam-only players puts you had 120k-180k a day on PC (both NA and EU). If half (a "pessimistic" estimate) are on steam, you're now looking at 240k-360k on PC (again, both NA/EU). Then, as ZoS has stated the population is about even across all platforms... so now it's 720k-1.08M across all 3. (only multiplying by 3 because I'm already accounting for the regional split)

These are "pessimistic" calculations based on the few facts that we know. 1. Max steam users was 31k this past month. 2. Many players don't use steam on PC. and 3. Population is about evenly split amongst the servers

(I teach personal finance to high school students... I teach them DAILY to be "realists" and "pessimistic" about their investments and the outcomes so that they will still be successful in a "poor" case scenario, and that reality is likely to be better than that, so then they'll be financially secure. I make that type of thinking my norm, and I'm not changing it for what I'm doing here)

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.

Makes more sense to me.

Couple of (maybe) reasons: first - these devs want to be "different" even if that "different" means that some people are left out of the devs "vision"; second - because since the game's inception, it is apparent that the guild structure is paramount in the devs "vision".

And that's about all I'm going to say. I like my posting privs thank you very much.

The devs original "vision" didn't even include guild traders if you recall. The guild stores were internal trading only.

Part of me thinks the devs are just too stubborn to admit that this cumbersome, tiring, convoluted system is truly any better in practice than other options.

Raideen wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

@Raideen

Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.

And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.

Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.

With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.

When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.

So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.

I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.

I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.

You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.

You know, the transmute system was put in to help players get the traits they want in items they have to farm/hunt for. As long as you get *one* belt to drop, you can get Divines. And best of all, wait for it, the price is ZERO. You earned it instead of bought it. If there isn't enough time to just play the game, then you may have larger concerns to deal with.

PC player; I'm playing the game for fun and enjoyment. I'm currently in 5 guilds. Since I am NOT playing Elder Traders Online, and I don't want to be the richest being on Nirn, I have only one trading guild that is specifically for trading. Two of my other social guilds usually get a trader consistently. One guild has no interest in getting a trader. The last social guild just started and doesn't have enough people to get the guild bank yet, so yeah, no trader. With my one trading/4 social guilds I've, over time, made a little more than 4 million gold. Personal opinion, I'll take the broken system that works over the auction house that would cause a lot of issues.

Is gear the only reason to use the Guild Trader system? Secondly, I used the "divines belt" as an EXAMPLE, I should not have tp point this out.

:shrug: When you can personally farm/pick up while doing other things all the mats you want, then maybe wanting a specific piece of gear, a specific motif, or specific recipe could be the only reason you're going to guild traders. The last time I needed a specific item was before TTC; it did take time to find but when I found it it was still there to buy, and was still the same price. That was quite often not the case after TTC came into use.

You can find crafters for hire in zone chat. If you belong to a good guild you can ask crafters in your guild to make bespoke items for you, including food, potions, and alchemy. Putting skill points in crafting can get you hireling items. Why make an auction house where people could monitor and corner the market on items, forcing people to pay higher prices because they are the only sellers? Only one of my guilds has a gm that bothers with TTC. I seldom sell through that guild, simply because of the past abuse I've seen with TTC. I believe the situation would be worse if there was an auction house.

Eedat wrote: »

For anyone just waking in to this thread, just know it's pretty much exactly the same as the thousand other global auction house threads.

Saved you ten minutes of reading.

It had taken surprisingly long time since the last one.