Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Where is the auction house?
-
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
Yes, there are separate EU and NA servers for both Xbox and Playstation.
A majority of players on PC do NOT use steam.
You keep using the "official" ZoS numbers, which are going to be inflated, as is the norm for ANY company, and the "steam" numbers which are definitely only a subset of the players on PC. Most players I personally know do NOT have the steam version.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
Lol what? You realize price fixing is a hundred times easier with a central market right? People legit have bots to buy up all the good deals in seconds in other games
and in other games along with eso there are farmer bots to farm mats, hides, whatever, breaking game economy by giving much more mats than they would be in the circulation of commerce
the irony that you point out bots... Most of the GM's i know actively ban anyone that joins their guilds that bot or try to sell botted goods. the Guild system as is provides a barrier to entry for bot accounts into impacting the market for ESO. Does it still happen? yes. Could this impact newer players? possibly. Is the system the ultimate system of holy perfection? **** no. Is it better than a Global Auction House? in how ESO is currently set up, yes and there are improvements that can be made.
Look the number one most valid argument right now against a Global Auction House is that simply this. ESO servers can't handle the traffic. Over the past 2 years we have had guild history inquiries, guild history generation, and guild application notifications from the guild finder ALL crash the servers. That was just with the "few" trade guilds out there and only a "small" portion of the player population contributing. Now multiply that traffic by 1,000 or 10,000 and add in bots pinging the GAH every 5-10 seconds. ESO would be unplayable.
Did you know that the people that remove the most gold from the game each week are also those who are most invested in said economy? That's really how it works. Gold gets funneled to people that are invested into trading on guild traders, who in turn invest in said guilds to ensure that they can maintain a trader by competing with other guilds, which removes massive amounts of gold from the game on a weekly basis. Those with the most usually end up paying the most. meanwhile a casual player and newbie can play ESO without spending more than a few hundred gold to repair gear or port to a town.
As convoluted as the system seems, and annoying at times, it works relatively well. As for changing systems there are always two questions that i ask people and no one has given a satisfactory answer yet.
1) How do you change economic systems that have been in place for years, and not have it wreck the economy in the process? Also how do you change how gold is generated in game and what do you do with the gold that is in circulation now?
2) What incentive does Micro-ZOS have to make such a change? It would cost them time, hardware investments, and lots of money for a system that while different has its own set of major flaws and issues.
Really by changing we are just exchanging one set of issues for another set of issues. With the current system at least we have known factors and ZOS can make incremental changes as we go. I mean we at least have a search feature native to the game now, as well as a way for people to actively search out trading guilds. These were all non existent years ago.
0 -
Vandellia✭✭✭Got to laugh/cry/shrug over the entire thread. This games trading system fine the way it is, if you think about it just a little this is how the real world does things trade wise. The lack of a "Universal Auction house" is a good thing as it keeps the "gold sellers/spammers" that infest games like XXX and other massive multi media online games. Real world shopping is a awful lot like in game shopping you may have to hit a store or 2 or 3 even if you want to get what you are looking for at the price you want it .. ( if available) .. I can remember logging in day after day hitting my mail box and cleaning out all the random seller spam. i remember massive bot groups on the ground lined up spelling out the web addy of a "gold seller". The way the game currently implements trade/selling at least it reduces some of the "price fixing" that goes on in other games, yes there are some "guild/ consortiums" that try to price fix in game or corner the market some it can not be avoided sadly.5 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Khajiitihaswares wrote: »hooo a global AH thread in disguise ! I'm feeling all giddy !
Serioulsy, there's no global AH, and there will -hopefully'- never be.
This system is fine, spots are freeing all the time, anyone can try.
If you don't want to join a guild, and to try and make sale, sell your stuff directly to players, but accept a price cut.
people already are forced to accept price cut by just no being in top spot guilds
um...no. You can list your items for whatever price you want; note some of the blue beginner motifs showing up costing over 1k. After a certain point, however, no one is going to pay ridiculous prices for items that aren't really rare.
Even if you're in a "top guild" that's in a "top spot", people aren't going to pay prices they consider to be too high. What the market will bear isn't the same as "let's play extortion". Everyone has the option to NOT buy anything.
yeah no....
joined into guild in great spot, got at start good sales with great price form me - no a single lowered price item, next week this guild lost trader from elden root into solitude...after 2 weeks in solitude I left this guild because maybe only single item have sol here with these prices over so long time....joined another guilds, in elden root again and 2nd inn vivec....my sales have reanimated with still high prices for what I was selling before
and this is just single, last of my experiences with case like that
tell me again as bad spots wont force you to lower prices to get items sold
I never said they wouldn't. Especially if you're pricing items high to begin with. It also depends on whether people want to buy what you're selling. If no one wants those Ta runes because they already have several thousand, doesn't matter if you price them at a single gold each, they won't sell.
When a guild has a "hub" spot people tend to decide "I'll check out the traders here, and buy from the cheapest" because they don't want to spend time looking for the item elsewhere. Still, unless you're really really really desperate to find that Orcrest Agony Pale Ale recipe, you'll look around other traders before spending 100k for it. Ridiculous is ridiculous.
Right. Then most other players trash the items because well they don't want deal with trade guilds which causes price inflation we have today. Price inflation not too big deal have plenty gold but it would help curb that.
trashing items is not a cause of price inflation, atleast not
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
I would kindly like to point out that Markath DLC added 7 traders to ESO, which the wiki you linked has not updated to account for yet. 6 of which are just steps away from a wayshrine which is something that players have been requesting. Thats another 7 guilds and 3500 more potential spots for players to trade.1 -
UGotBenched91✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »Where the guild store concept fails is that I have to use outside sources to search for items. I don’t understand why there’s not a search feature in game. This game depends way too much on outside help to have concepts that have been in games over 10 years ago.
You have a search feature in the Guild Store UI at every trader, @UGotBenched91.
Having a central "auction house" search would go against the spirit of the Guild Trader system.
Oh, yes I’m aware of that. I meant that it’s annoying not to be able to search in the entire game. @Taleof2Cities . I’d go against the spirit of the guild trade system anyway for a feature that saves me from running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Games too big for that kind of concept to be efficient. I can’t imagine what people would do if Tamriel trade center wasn’t a thing.
I would like to point out that there is no requirement for ANY player to list what you want on a trader at any time. I will also point out that every item that can be listed for sale in a guild trader can be/has been obtained by completing in game content. Outside of items with limited time frames, the vast majority of these can be obtained at any time with a bit of effort and time. even bad RNG can be defeated with enough effort and time.
So i have to ask this. If you can farm the items in game, and searching traders is such a time waster for you, why do you do it? why are you not farming for your items instead? Could it be that it is still faster than doing a self farm? i mean if it isn't... then why do you do it?
Please don’t twist my words to make me sound like I’m entitled. I never said anyone owes or needs to list the items that I need. I use Tamriel trade center. My response is pointing out that it’s odd and in my opinion bad design that you can’t search for items in game except on the form of individual guild stores. So you have to use outside resources to find the items you need.Edited by UGotBenched91 on January 6, 2021 3:11PM2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
I might believe there is a problem, if there weren't so many guilds that aren't full. You're also not noting the guilds where the members don't want a guild trader, don't try for one, and really don't care. There might be limited spaces for people who want to play Elder Traders Online, and make several million gold every day. For normal players, casuals, who want to sell some items some times when they feel like it, there are a lot of guilds that have openings.
Gosh. I don't know whether I should be pleased or worried. Once I actually joined a no-dues, no-required sales quota trading guild, and made an effort every few weeks to sell tempers and flowers, I started to get gold. So far slightly under 4 million on one account. Gee its awful how the trading system doesn't allow people to make gold..... /sarcasm
I am not following your points. I simply stated that ZOS has an small and fixed limit on how many people can make gold in this game through a guild trader, and that number is below 100,000 which is not a lot. I mean consider that. We are not talking about sub 100k per each 250+ servers like WOW, we are talking sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCNA server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCEU server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the XBOX server and sub 100K for the ENTIRETY of the Playstation server. Where as people in MMORPG's who use a central auction house allow for every single player to sell in the same market, at the same cost. Its fair for everyone, this game is not, especially if we believe that there are over 3 million players currently in ESO. ZOS has said that the player base is roughly the same for each server. This would be around 750k for each server. This means that 650,000 people are not able to sell through a guild trader.
But I agree that every guild trader is looking to fill their ranks, and always have been. So are we now suggesting that 650,000 player do not need guild traders to make their gold? Or that the player base is no where near that number?
I am just asking questions.
With only a few exceptions here on the forums, no one seems to be suffering from any inability to join a guild that has/gets a trader. It really doesn't matter how many players there are; if the players have no interest in trading, they won't be looking for a trading guild. There doesn't appear to be 650k people playing who are desperately trying to join a trading guild but can't find a space. Each chapter/expansion adds trading kiosks; not all of them are filled. It might just be me, but I'm not seeing the problem; there are open guild slots, and there are open guild trader locations. Until everyone who wants to sell through a guild trader is unable to find an open trading guild slot, I really don't see the problem.3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
You numbers are GREATLY exaggerated. Simply proof. There are only 98500 TOTAL SLOTS for trade guilds on any given server. This means a TOTAL of 98500 people can trade in ESO at a guild trader, except it gets worse, because any person can have FIVE guild trade slots reducing that number.
This is a fixed number that does not change based on a high or low population. And yet EVERY SINGLE GUILD trader in game is always looking to fill their ranks and not filling them. Why? Because there are not that many people playing as you suggest.
4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
The forums have had several threads warning people not to purchase the game through Steam as Steam sometimes causes problems. Some players who did buy the game through Steam do not use Steam to launch the game.
You really can't get an accurate count just looking at Steam.
Having problems on steam and people NOT using steam are two different things.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Easily_Lost wrote: »I for one would like a AH. It is so much easier to buy mats cheap and resell them for double the price or more.
With the guild traders, it means I have to travel all over to buy up cheap mats.
Ya, this is definitely an issue. Especially when the player base is so small that any ONE rich player in game can literally corner the entire market.
This does not happen on high population games with a central auction house.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
You numbers are GREATLY exaggerated. Simply proof. There are only 98500 TOTAL SLOTS for trade guilds on any given server. This means a TOTAL of 98500 people can trade in ESO at a guild trader, except it gets worse, because any person can have FIVE guild trade slots reducing that number.
This is a fixed number that does not change based on a high or low population. And yet EVERY SINGLE GUILD trader in game is always looking to fill their ranks and not filling them. Why? Because there are not that many people playing as you suggest.
1. A post showed your number is wrong, since your source doesn't include the new stations. So, it's actually 102,000 guild trader slots (with the 7 new traders added with Markarth)... please update your numbers. You also haven't acknowledged that steam is NOT the entire population on PC (I'd argue it's maybe 1/3rd of it)... nor corrected your mistake of only 4 servers versus 6. It's very difficult to take your numbers seriously where there are some big mistakes with them (that are easily refuted and have been, with evidence)
2. You call out Anotherone for making some assumptions (which we all have to do since we don't know any actual numbers of playerbase, etc...), but you're making assumptions yourself (that EVERYBODY wants to be in a trading guild, and that a MAJORITY of those that do are in multiple trade guilds). At least be fair with your criticism...The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.
First off, you are making out that you represent every pc player in the game and they all want an auction house. Please supply your evidence. And I want to see proper evidence here not just anecdotal stuff. I, on the other hand, do not represent all console players. I represent me, occasionally I will state that I know others of similar outlook but by no means am I claiming to represent all console players.
Just because you don't have the time to go shopping you have the right to tell everyone else that they shouldn't either.
I have played games with central auction houses, and they setve a purpose. But they don't add anything to the game, they detract from it. But you have been told all this. And all you have to say is "I don't care about anyone else's opinion, I don't care what Zos have said, I don't care that this topic comes up month after month after month, I want an auction house and will shout and shout and shout until I get it.'
I prefer the current system. I don't want an auction house but if one was introduced it wouldn't stop me playing the game but it would reduce my enjoyment. I've read your arguments and don't agree with them. However, I'm not so close minded that my mind couldn't be changed. I've yet to read anything that comes close to doing so though
Who said anything about driving? I said when looking for goods I need in real life i use multiple stores. At the present time they are online stores as we are in our 3rd lockdown. You said you use the Internet, clearly your buying needs are limited as it is apparently limited to burgers. Do you always use the same franchise or do you occasionally look beyond the golden arches?2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
You numbers are GREATLY exaggerated. Simply proof. There are only 98500 TOTAL SLOTS for trade guilds on any given server. This means a TOTAL of 98500 people can trade in ESO at a guild trader, except it gets worse, because any person can have FIVE guild trade slots reducing that number.
This is a fixed number that does not change based on a high or low population. And yet EVERY SINGLE GUILD trader in game is always looking to fill their ranks and not filling them. Why? Because there are not that many people playing as you suggest.
1. A post showed your number is wrong, since your source doesn't include the new stations. So, it's actually 102,000 guild trader slots (with the 7 new traders added with Markarth)... please update your numbers. You also haven't acknowledged that steam is NOT the entire population on PC (I'd argue it's maybe 1/3rd of it)... nor corrected your mistake of only 4 servers versus 6. It's very difficult to take your numbers seriously where there are some big mistakes with them (that are easily refuted and have been, with evidence)
2. You call out Anotherone for making some assumptions (which we all have to do since we don't know any actual numbers of playerbase, etc...), but you're making assumptions yourself (that EVERYBODY wants to be in a trading guild, and that a MAJORITY of those that do are in multiple trade guilds). At least be fair with your criticism...
1. Good to know that there are an additional 3500 slots for player to trade. Does not change the fact that a central auction house would pacify the entire player base regardless of how many or few are in game.
2. I don't have to acknowledge that steam is not the entire population. The numbers are pathetically low even if multiplied 3x. That is still NOT a healthy player base.
3. I have calculated 6 servers in my most recent posts. No reason to edit the previous versions, I'd rather show that mistakes were made and I corrected them later on. I have nothing to hide.
4. My numbers are not "easily refuted" because the additional calculations based on your numbers still does not indicate a healthy player base. Most MMO's who dip to 300k, dont make it. ESO is riding that fine line right now.
5. I am being completely fair with my numbers as they are based on ZOS official posts, steam charts and what is available in game. Even when factoring in the 2 additional servers I missed, and the extra 3500 trade slots missed, still does not change the fact that the player base numbers are on the small side for an MMORPG. Also does not change the fact that all the guild trade slots are not filled. In a game where EVERYTHING costs gold or crowns, Its a much safer bet to error that most people use or need at least 1 trade guild. In fact, its how the game is designed. If it were not necessary, no one would use them. That alone dismantles the idea that "most players do not need or use a central guild trader", because if the player base is as high as you all assert, then that is what is happening.
2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the solution is to simply put TTC and MM on consoles, And increase the guild size to 10k instead of 500.
That way the servers will go down forever and we can focus on arguing about that instead of an auction house.
Going back, there have been hundreds of threads on this. "Why has no one answered the question" is a lazy statement at best.
1. Bots - ZOS needs to fix bots period, not just for an Auction or central trading hub. Perhaps a system that checks for certain bot behaviors and dropping them when detected should be good. Heck, put a small captcha system in when listing or buying and you'll have 0 problem with bots.
2. Gold sinks - Why cant a central trading hub have the same dynamic gold sink as the current system? If the goal is taking money out of the economy, It would be easy to "buy" slots in the central hub just as one would bid for a guild trader. The more people using it, the more money is taken out.
3. You like the current system and those meanies are ruining your fun. (ignoring the fact that not everyone has the same experience, like consoles vs PC) The answer is that you've had your fun for 5 years now. You've climbed to the top and taken advantage of everything the current system has. If anyone can handle the change in economy and trade system, its the people who already know how to trade. If you like, I can play the worlds smallest violin for your plight.
Yes, the central system isn't perfect. Yes, it requires more work on ZOSs part. But I will keep yelling about it because the current system is crappy for new players and lets toxic guild leaders take advantage of hundreds of people at a time. (even if not all of them do, ANY is more than should be allowed to)4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I never said that. I have given my opinion, just like you give yours.First off, you are making out that you represent every pc player in the game and they all want an auction house.
I am not following you on this? Supply what evidence? That I prefer a central auction house that is fair for everyone to use regardless of the player base size? Also I never claimed to represent all PC players.Please supply your evidence. And I want to see proper evidence here not just anecdotal stuff. I, on the other hand, do not represent all console players. I represent me, occasionally I will state that I know others of similar outlook but by no means am I claiming to represent all console players.
And just because you do does not mean that everyone else does. You brought it up first and I gave my opinion rebuttal.Just because you don't have the time to go shopping you have the right to tell everyone else that they shouldn't either.
I disagree, I think guild traders take away from the game because I have to spend unnecessary time looking for items to purchase. I have to spend unnecessary time to list items to sell in 5 different traders. I like to be efficient with my time. That is fine if you do not, but why should I have to live by your life style. In fact, I would argue that most people prefer more efficient methods.I have played games with central auction houses, and they setve a purpose. But they don't add anything to the game, they detract from it.
....and you have been told that many of us do not like the guild trade system. And all you do is say "I don't care about anyone else's opinion, I don't care that this topic comes up month after month after month, I want a central guild trader and will shout and shout and shout....."But you have been told all this. And all you have to say is "I don't care about anyone else's opinion, I don't care what Zos have said, I don't care that this topic comes up month after month after month, I want an auction house and will shout and shout and shout until I get it.'
and due to the low population of ESO and the fact that this topic comes up every other month could be indicators that some folks do not play simply because there is no easy way to trade. In fact, I have left the game many times because I got tired of dealing with guild traders. One of those occasions I left the game for a year. That is an entire year of lost crowns and ESO+. I have to wonder how many others have done the same.I prefer the current system. I don't want an auction house but if one was introduced it wouldn't stop me playing the game but it would reduce my enjoyment. I've read your arguments and don't agree with them. However, I'm not so close minded that my mind couldn't be changed. I've yet to read anything that comes close to doing so though
As far as you calling me close minded. That is a completely baseless and unfair thing to say when I am trying to have a civil discussion. Just because my opinion does not mirror yours, does not mean I am close minded.Who said anything about driving? I said when looking for goods I need in real life i use multiple stores. At the present time they are online stores as we are in our 3rd lockdown. You said you use the Internet, clearly your buying needs are limited as it is apparently limited to burgers. Do you always use the same franchise or do you occasionally look beyond the golden arches?
I was using my analogy as a way to make a more clear and concise impression of what I am trying to convey. You turned it around and used it to attack me personally.
2 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Raideen
You stated "us pc players that want a central auction house" - that infers you are talking for all pc players. Please provide the evidence that suggests all pc players want a central auction house.
There isn't any. Just as there isn't any suggesting everyone is happy with the current system.
Everything is conjecture and opinion. No one knows how healthy the game population is but the fact that Zos are still injecting large amounts into producing new chapters suggests the player base is pretty healthy. If the player base was dying the way it has been suggested Zos would be looking to either sell the game or close it, they run the game to make money and a dying game loses money.
I did not call you close minded, I merely stated that my mind is not so closed that I am not able to be swayed to the other side of the argument.
I apologise for the golden arches comment, it was beneath me but was retaliation for the burgers comment the other way. You failed to grasp the point I was originally making and rather than react how I did I should have tried to explain it better
Anyway I have no desire to get personal. We disagree, you will never get me to agree with you just as I will never get you and the other auction house devotees to agree with me. Have a nice day3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
If you go back and read my reply to your reply, I was mimicking what you said, because you said "us console player".@Raideen
You stated "us pc players that want a central auction house" - that infers you are talking for all pc players. Please provide the evidence that suggests all pc players want a central auction house.
Then why did you ask for evidence??!?!?!?There isn't any. Just as there isn't any suggesting everyone is happy with the current system.
Producing new chapters makes them money, fixing old issues does not. It does not appear they are spending a lot of time fixing old issues. In fact the mail bug still exists in game should give some clue into this.Everything is conjecture and opinion. No one knows how healthy the game population is but the fact that Zos are still injecting large amounts into producing new chapters suggests the player base is pretty healthy. If the player base was dying the way it has been suggested Zos would be looking to either sell the game or close it, they run the game to make money and a dying game loses money.
Which infers that you feel my mind is closed. When you state that "you do not have a closed mind", that is an automatic inference that your opponent does, or else you would not state it.I did not call you close minded, I merely stated that my mind is not so closed that I am not able to be swayed to the other side of the argument.
I dont understand the need for "retaliation", I never attacked you. I simply used an analogy that I would assume anyone playing a modern game could relate to. Driving around to 500 different stores to find the best deal is not as efficient as simply using the internet to find the best deal.I apologise for the golden arches comment, it was beneath me but was retaliation for the burgers comment the other way. You failed to grasp the point I was originally making and rather than react how I did I should have tried to explain it better
Guild traders = driving around to 500 different stores for the best deal
Central Auction House = using the internet to find the best deal.
Glad to hear, because its against forum rules and you could get into trouble. I'd hate to see someone get into trouble.Anyway I have no desire to get personal. We disagree, you will never get me to agree with you just as I will never get you and the other auction house devotees to agree with me. Have a nice day
2 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer the guild store system over a centralised shop that somehow sell all the stuff
Also more immersive to have multiple shop
Feel like acctually shoppingEdited by Dark_Lord_Kuro on January 6, 2021 5:34PM3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
You numbers are GREATLY exaggerated. Simply proof. There are only 98500 TOTAL SLOTS for trade guilds on any given server. This means a TOTAL of 98500 people can trade in ESO at a guild trader, except it gets worse, because any person can have FIVE guild trade slots reducing that number.
This is a fixed number that does not change based on a high or low population. And yet EVERY SINGLE GUILD trader in game is always looking to fill their ranks and not filling them. Why? Because there are not that many people playing as you suggest.
As it was pointed out the number of slots is actually 102,000 because of 7 guild traders not included in the source you get your info. This is also PER SERVER. So that 612,000 player slots in traders across all platforms.
My numbers are conservative based on hard evidence by a 3rd party, statements by ZOS, and observable data. You are taking two unrelated parts of the game and trying to make one prove the other. The number of players that play ESO have zero to do with number of empty trader slots. As it has been pointed out to you number times not everyone in this game or any game desires to use a player trading system. In fact as much as half the people in trade guilds don't do any trading at all. They are their for other reasons like socialization and prize games. Also a trader is not necessary to list goods. For many players listing goods on their other guilds such as pvp, trials, housing, is enough to sell those items. Those guilds are some of the best places to find deals for a person with a trading guild because they often sell cheap and you have pretty exclusive access to the items in the guild.
There are as many if not more people who have items listed on the guild trading system that never has a public trader than their are people who have public access for their goods. I have personally both bought and sold from a guilds trading page many many times without that guild having a guild trader. Ive gave some good deals and got some good deals doing so.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
The forums have had several threads warning people not to purchase the game through Steam as Steam sometimes causes problems. Some players who did buy the game through Steam do not use Steam to launch the game.
You really can't get an accurate count just looking at Steam.
Having problems on steam and people NOT using steam are two different things.
Yes they are two different things both leading to the same thing. Players not using Steam. Early in the history of the game Steam was having problems. Some players actually bought a 2nd copy of the game to get off of Steam. It was then discovered there was a way to play the game purchased through Steam without using the Steam launcher. Later that method was taken away from new purchases of the game as I understand how things went.
Since then any time someone comes to the forums and asks should they buy the game with Steam the majority of posts say no do not use Steam. Go to the Steam forums and you see messages from players saying they regret getting the game through Steam.
So yes you are again correct on your statement but your statement does not back your argument. Just like your numbers for the available trader spots may be accurate but do not support any of your arguments. If there were a waiting list to get into most trade guilds then your numbers might support your argument.
Truth is the economy is strong and any player that wants to participate in that economy can do so in a variety of ways based on their play style.
It is also true the current system could use a few quality of life updates. Another truth, getting rid of the traders in favor of a central trading location (auction or otherwise) would cause people to leave the game. No way of knowing how many would leave but some would.
So why chase people away from the game to replace something in the game that is not broken?
You have said you are in five trade guilds. Are any of those guilds at capacity now or on a regular basis?and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
In that case, you can go to the zone that belt drops in, kill a couple of delve bosses, farm some chests and get the drop yourself.
That's what I do when things I want are listed above what I'm willing to pay. A while back I wanted a Mother's Sorrow Inferno staff. No way I was going to pay 30k for a piece of gear (yes, I'm cheap), never mind 100k + that was being asked in most places.
So I took my alt that was working on the "loot 1000 chests" achievement to Deshan, and whenever I had a few minutes to kill because I was waiting for a guild event or something, I'd go open a chest or 12. Worked like a charm.
ESO makes it fairly easy to get stuff yourself.
Personally, I have very few things I need "right now", so I can browse guild traders as I come across them and buy what I need. It's pretty enjoyable.The Moot Councillor0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.
You know, the transmute system was put in to help players get the traits they want in items they have to farm/hunt for. As long as you get *one* belt to drop, you can get Divines. And best of all, wait for it, the price is ZERO. You earned it instead of bought it. If there isn't enough time to just play the game, then you may have larger concerns to deal with.
PC player; I'm playing the game for fun and enjoyment. I'm currently in 5 guilds. Since I am NOT playing Elder Traders Online, and I don't want to be the richest being on Nirn, I have only one trading guild that is specifically for trading. Two of my other social guilds usually get a trader consistently. One guild has no interest in getting a trader. The last social guild just started and doesn't have enough people to get the guild bank yet, so yeah, no trader. With my one trading/4 social guilds I've, over time, made a little more than 4 million gold. Personal opinion, I'll take the broken system that works over the auction house that would cause a lot of issues.3 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just curious
What is the point of advertising Guilds if there are no Guild names shown?
1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.
You know, the transmute system was put in to help players get the traits they want in items they have to farm/hunt for. As long as you get *one* belt to drop, you can get Divines. And best of all, wait for it, the price is ZERO. You earned it instead of bought it. If there isn't enough time to just play the game, then you may have larger concerns to deal with.
PC player; I'm playing the game for fun and enjoyment. I'm currently in 5 guilds. Since I am NOT playing Elder Traders Online, and I don't want to be the richest being on Nirn, I have only one trading guild that is specifically for trading. Two of my other social guilds usually get a trader consistently. One guild has no interest in getting a trader. The last social guild just started and doesn't have enough people to get the guild bank yet, so yeah, no trader. With my one trading/4 social guilds I've, over time, made a little more than 4 million gold. Personal opinion, I'll take the broken system that works over the auction house that would cause a lot of issues.
Is gear the only reason to use the Guild Trader system? Secondly, I used the "divines belt" as an EXAMPLE, I should not have tp point this out.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
In that case, you can go to the zone that belt drops in, kill a couple of delve bosses, farm some chests and get the drop yourself.
That's what I do when things I want are listed above what I'm willing to pay. A while back I wanted a Mother's Sorrow Inferno staff. No way I was going to pay 30k for a piece of gear (yes, I'm cheap), never mind 100k + that was being asked in most places.
So I took my alt that was working on the "loot 1000 chests" achievement to Deshan, and whenever I had a few minutes to kill because I was waiting for a guild event or something, I'd go open a chest or 12. Worked like a charm.
ESO makes it fairly easy to get stuff yourself.
Personally, I have very few things I need "right now", so I can browse guild traders as I come across them and buy what I need. It's pretty enjoyable.
It was use as an example in a reply to someone else. Not a specific need or desire.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Two separate issues that have overlap, but do not set the rule. So sorry, but no.Yes they are two different things both leading to the same thing. Players not using Steam. Early in the history of the game Steam was having problems. Some players actually bought a 2nd copy of the game to get off of Steam. It was then discovered there was a way to play the game purchased through Steam without using the Steam launcher. Later that method was taken away from new purchases of the game as I understand how things went.
Since then any time someone comes to the forums and asks should they buy the game with Steam the majority of posts say no do not use Steam. Go to the Steam forums and you see messages from players saying they regret getting the game through Steam.
I was asking questions, posing possible scenarios, not making arguments. There are two things presented about ESO that can not happen simultaneously.So yes you are again correct on your statement but your statement does not back your argument. Just like your numbers for the available trader spots may be accurate but do not support any of your arguments. If there were a waiting list to get into most trade guilds then your numbers might support your argument.
Spoken from someone with years of experience and forgetting about new players.Truth is the economy is strong and any player that wants to participate in that economy can do so in a variety of ways based on their play style.
And the other truth is that a central auction house could bring players to the game and keep them around.It is also true the current system could use a few quality of life updates. Another truth, getting rid of the traders in favor of a central trading location (auction or otherwise) would cause people to leave the game. No way of knowing how many would leave but some would.
It is broken. Its a system that IS manipulated DAILY. Its a system that favors people who pour REAL LIFE $$$$ into the system. It's a system that wastes time (done intentionally to pad online number?!?!?). A Central auction house eliminates all of this.So why chase people away from the game to replace something in the game that is not broken?
Nope. Which indicates the game's population is not as healthy as claimed.You have said you are in five trade guilds. Are any of those guilds at capacity now or on a regular basis?
2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.
You know, the transmute system was put in to help players get the traits they want in items they have to farm/hunt for. As long as you get *one* belt to drop, you can get Divines. And best of all, wait for it, the price is ZERO. You earned it instead of bought it. If there isn't enough time to just play the game, then you may have larger concerns to deal with.
PC player; I'm playing the game for fun and enjoyment. I'm currently in 5 guilds. Since I am NOT playing Elder Traders Online, and I don't want to be the richest being on Nirn, I have only one trading guild that is specifically for trading. Two of my other social guilds usually get a trader consistently. One guild has no interest in getting a trader. The last social guild just started and doesn't have enough people to get the guild bank yet, so yeah, no trader. With my one trading/4 social guilds I've, over time, made a little more than 4 million gold. Personal opinion, I'll take the broken system that works over the auction house that would cause a lot of issues.
Is gear the only reason to use the Guild Trader system? Secondly, I used the "divines belt" as an EXAMPLE, I should not have tp point this out.
As another example, anything found on a guild trader can also be acquired by farming it. You have to decide if you want to:
1. Spend time farming the item you want
2. Pay a higher price in high traffic hub but save you from doing a lot of searching for the item.
3. Spend a lot of time hunting for the item, but find a better deal.
The system, without addons or websites, is perfectly balanced already. And we know it works because we still have a healthy player economy. Why would ZOS spend labor on something that isn't broken and a majority of the player base has no desire to see change?5 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
You numbers are GREATLY exaggerated. Simply proof. There are only 98500 TOTAL SLOTS for trade guilds on any given server. This means a TOTAL of 98500 people can trade in ESO at a guild trader, except it gets worse, because any person can have FIVE guild trade slots reducing that number.
This is a fixed number that does not change based on a high or low population. And yet EVERY SINGLE GUILD trader in game is always looking to fill their ranks and not filling them. Why? Because there are not that many people playing as you suggest.
1. A post showed your number is wrong, since your source doesn't include the new stations. So, it's actually 102,000 guild trader slots (with the 7 new traders added with Markarth)... please update your numbers. You also haven't acknowledged that steam is NOT the entire population on PC (I'd argue it's maybe 1/3rd of it)... nor corrected your mistake of only 4 servers versus 6. It's very difficult to take your numbers seriously where there are some big mistakes with them (that are easily refuted and have been, with evidence)
2. You call out Anotherone for making some assumptions (which we all have to do since we don't know any actual numbers of playerbase, etc...), but you're making assumptions yourself (that EVERYBODY wants to be in a trading guild, and that a MAJORITY of those that do are in multiple trade guilds). At least be fair with your criticism...
4. My numbers are not "easily refuted" because the additional calculations based on your numbers still does not indicate a healthy player base. Most MMO's who dip to 300k, dont make it. ESO is riding that fine line right now.
You have NO clue what the player base is. You are making conjectures based on minimal evidence AND WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING (before I get yelled at again...) but we come to different conclusions. The truth is probably somewhere between the two numbers. So... somewhere between about 60,000 and 500,000 per server.
It okay to be pessimistic about it, but I believe that we'd be seeing much different things if they were in fact that low.Edited by tmbrinks on January 7, 2021 9:12PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.
I can ask the same about you. Why are you console players fighting to keep a broken trade system in game for us PC players who want a central auction house that is fair for everyone.
I dont have the time to "go shopping" for 4 hours looking for that one divines belt I need at a price I can deal with. I'd prefer a central auction house and in game data base that tells me where the best deal is.
You might have the time to drive around wasting gas looking for the best price on a burger. I like to use the internet.
You know, the transmute system was put in to help players get the traits they want in items they have to farm/hunt for. As long as you get *one* belt to drop, you can get Divines. And best of all, wait for it, the price is ZERO. You earned it instead of bought it. If there isn't enough time to just play the game, then you may have larger concerns to deal with.
PC player; I'm playing the game for fun and enjoyment. I'm currently in 5 guilds. Since I am NOT playing Elder Traders Online, and I don't want to be the richest being on Nirn, I have only one trading guild that is specifically for trading. Two of my other social guilds usually get a trader consistently. One guild has no interest in getting a trader. The last social guild just started and doesn't have enough people to get the guild bank yet, so yeah, no trader. With my one trading/4 social guilds I've, over time, made a little more than 4 million gold. Personal opinion, I'll take the broken system that works over the auction house that would cause a lot of issues.
Is gear the only reason to use the Guild Trader system? Secondly, I used the "divines belt" as an EXAMPLE, I should not have tp point this out.
As another example, anything found on a guild trader can also be acquired by farming it. You have to decide if you want to:
1. Spend time farming the item you want
2. Pay a higher price in high traffic hub but save you from doing a lot of searching for the item.
3. Spend a lot of time hunting for the item, but find a better deal.
This is not the argument...wow...The POINT was that guild traders are INFINITELY LESS EFFICIENT than a central auction house. This is not debatable. Running all around to purchase something is not as easy as going to a single location that has access to every single item listed in game. THAT was the point. Please stay on topic.
No it's not, not even remotely.Anotherone773 wrote: »The system, without addons or websites, is perfectly balanced already.
A healthy economy is not one where inflation has gone through the roof...which it has. So again, no.Anotherone773 wrote: »And we know it works because we still have a healthy player economy.
Except it is broken. The guild trade system is open to so much abuse its not even funny.Anotherone773 wrote: »Why would ZOS spend labor on something that isn't broken and a majority of the player base has no desire to see change?
1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I can tell you as a 100% absolute the active player base is no where NEAR 500k per server. Not even close. The design of the game does not permit it, the server architecture does not permit it. Even during the busiest times in game there is no where NEAR that amount of people in the world, even with the 2nd phase.You have NO clue what the player base is. You are making conjectures based on minimal evidence AND WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING (before I get yelled at again...) but we come to different conclusions. The truth is probably somewhere between the two numbers. So... somewhere between about 60,000 and 500,000 per server.
I am not being pessimistic, but realistic. You know the saying right?Anotherone773 wrote: »It okay to be pessimistic about it, but I believe that we'd be seeing much different things if they were in fact that low.
"Realists are viewed as pessimists by optimists.
1