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Tired of fake dps
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RageKing✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Why queue for veteran content if you're just not ready?
Because fake tanks with their Super High dps (fake healers too, tbh) blasting through normal dungeons carrying the bad dps make them think they're competent enough to actually do it. They don't even KNOW they're not ready for it. They don't know their dps is in the can because they cleared the content, right? And really fast, too! They're practically dps gods!
All these bad dps see is themselves pugging into normal dungeons and clearing the content easily with a "healer" and a "tank" and it makes them think that they're absolutely capable of doing it on vet.
This is true. which is why i like to slow my dps down real low just so they see that they are being carried. and alot of times they acknowledgeSorry that other players aren't as great as you are OP. 😔
this is not about people arn't so great, people dont need to be if they know what they are able to do or what they cant
just for vet dungs....you dont need to be even great but just good but if you are bad then you definitelly dont fit/you are not ready for this content because it was cleary designed for better player who are ready for this
it is sad how people cant differentiate bad and good, great players from ignorant players
you can be bad player but dont be ignorat by beiing bad player and still pushing to go for content wich is harder, to hard for this with hope players will carry you by just sacrifacing their own time, nerves for someone who dont care he isn't ready for this content and go for this
The OP is literally griping about a normal though.
A normal.
I havn't read anything mentione to be it normal, the only reference I can guess is he was running as "hybrid tank dps" but this is no problem for basic game veteran content at all
and everyone at all understand and talk here about veteran, not normal because it is also well known for people how normal dungs can be soloed and there is no reason going full tank on them so everyone here are on veteran dungs topic
It's at the very beginning. I don't blame you though since the OP is very nearly just a wall of text.I mainly tank but lately it has been brutal. The average dps i seem to get from random normal dungeon que is like 4-8k dps. its absolutely insane.
oh you are right, sorry but although this thread cleary went for veteran dungs, as I see this post stating for normal was already just overwritten by newer posts and flooded with same bad experience from vet dung
as for my missed response to your 1st post here
That's my point. Every comment here defending OP is completely invalid because OP wasn't talking about players in veteran dungeons.
You don't even have to be level 50 to do a random normal lol.
if i didnt make myself clear. every issue i have had with a "fake dps" is when they are cp400+. if they are under that i dont expect much. but im talking about running random normals and constantly getting people cp400+ and even 800+ at times pulling less than 8k dps in normal as well as vet.
now if its any normal and not dlc then its no prob. but then you que for castle thorn or some other dlc dungeon on vet or normal and get sub 8k dps. even if its on normal its damn near impossible to finish with that dps.4 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭On the one hand I love this because I'm sick of everyone whining about fake tank blah blah blah but fake tank is WAY better than fake dps. So bravo on that.
But on the other hand you should get over it because not everyone is awesome at video games and normal pugs are open to everyone and we should just cut people a break.4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sometimes my GF and I will queue with a terribly geared DPS toon, but only if the other is on their strongest DPS to help balance out the DPS.
Frankly though, I dont like running vets because most of my characters are worth about 20k DPS (in a dungeon) and I feel bad that I do not pull hard numbers for fast runs.
I really have no clue how players pull ridiculous numbers. I try to min max the race with the skills, rotations, weave etc etc and the best I have done is about 47k on the new trial target dummy on my best geared, golded, min maxed character.
I don't know if its because I play all magicka, or if I just suck but I just dont seem to be able to pull hard numbers. So, if I am one of these guys in your runs, I apologize. I dont want to suck, I just cant figure out how not to.
OP was talking about players who do 4k DPS. You do 20k, which is 5x the amount. So I don't think you are one of those guys he was talking about.
20k is respectable DPS if you ask me. You aren't going to pushing out that much damage without actually gearing your character for damage. So there is nothing fake about your DPS.Edited by Jeremy on December 5, 2020 7:33AM6 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A pug for rnd is where you can find anything, and have to live with it.. it is the first/easiest place for people to start doing dungeons.. you can't ask anything of them, except that they at least hit the enemy.. if one can not live with that, rnd pug is maybe not for you1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When people find the players that are often upset about the caliber of player they are grouped with when using the GF to form a group for them just do not take the next step and find a decent guild and start running with more regular players. When queuing to be grouped with a random set of players we will get random players. When we form our own group we have some control over it and when we are in a guild, we have a better idea of the type of player we will find.0 -
Liukke✭✭✭The community of this game baffles me...
there's people complaining of finding DLC dungeons in the "random" selection and now there's also people complaining to find bad DPS in the "random" selection of a group.
Honestly, supposed you passed your primary school, which part of "!'^RANDOM^'!" you guys didn't get?
Do you realise that there are new players?
Players without clue and just bad at it?
People that just want to have fun or maybe they are drunk and just move their player around without any reason?
Guess why?...because it's random!
What's your solution, kicking them off?
Putting even more barriers to a game where you "need" to have CPs to do things?
I don't want to sound rude but seriously, if you don't want to receive surprise don't go into the damn random queue.
If you start to shape it with people or dungeons that you want then the random part of it goes to hell :'D
You find bad people or dungeons in your group?
you
deal
with
it.
(only exception for me is when it rolls Wayrest II or one of those bugged boss dungeons our fantastic dev team is totally incapable to fix)6 -
belfong✭✭I don’t have any expectation when I am doing PUG. Just go in with open mind and have fun. Everyone of us started new and not everyone research in internet for a meta build. I remember back when I did search the internet for meta build and, at that time, I could not afford the cost (mere $27K for a Hunding Rage set) to get someone to craft gear set for me. Only then did I realize that I had to start farming in Craglorn to earn money.
Before, I just want to fight in dungeons but never have I imagined that I need to be a farmer to earn money to have better gear to fight in dungeons. I think many new players are in the same boat. No one wants to grind to mine ores to play dungeons. Sadly, there’s no other way to make money except through this mundane way.
So, cut people some slack. They just want to have fun. If people stop playing, you won’t find it fun because your Group Finder will have no one to match with.4 -
wheresbes✭✭✭✭I've noticed what the OP pointed out in the last couple of days, possibly because more people are running dungeons during the event. Though, I think it's a great opportunity for new players to learn as long as they stick to normal dungeons. I'm not so new and I'm still learning myself. Personally, I don't have any problem if we take some time to clear a dungeon, the other day we had a player that kept dying - they even excused themselves, no big issue, next time I'm sure they'll do better. I'm using Thunderbug to help with mobs and Almalexia which hopefully will help melee DDs survivability and I usually have great fun!1
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jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭Speaking as a relatively newbie tank here - I was told "don't make your first character a tank, always go dps first, it's easier"... I don't actually agree with that. I hear all this lingo about dots and rotations, and some of it I simply don't understand. I actually find the tank playstyle is more natural to me.
Now, because a tank has to be able to kill things in solo overland mode, and I do a lot of solo questing, I've spent champion points on upping my damage. I can pull a useful 6-7k dps consistently - which is, I understand, more than many dedicated pure tanks.
Low-damage DDs are FAR more likely to kill a run than a tank who didn't understand the mechanics. For a simple reason: if you don't understand the mechanics, you can be told them, and learn in mid-run (as long as people are willing to do that rather than simply call you a noob). But a low-damage DD can't suddenly triple their damage mid-run.
Example: Vet Imp City Prison, the fight with the flesh abomination. Tank gets blamed for dying to exploding hoarvors that do 42k damage (there are two in play which means I need 84k health!) The actual problem is DDs who didn't burn them down before they exploded.
Another example: Vet Fungal Grotto 2, second boss, your DDs have to BOTH be strong enough to take out a Shadow Tormentor singly, just in case it's the other DD who gets chained down by them. If one of your DDs is short, you'd just better hope that his mate never gets chained up. If *both* of them are running short, and they're doing 15k between them, then you're stuffed unless the tank can abandon his tanking to pile in on the shadow tormentor, and that leaves the healer vulnerable to the boss, so you're gonna lose somebody anyway...4 -
svendf✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »If I had a nickel for every dd I saw in a vet dungeon with a resto staff, lol.
Their dps will skydive. Have seen a few as well and comment on over coms, but dead silent, beside being provocative and spaming resto.
It´s even more sad, when I´m on one of my healers - then it´s just pure povocation. Can´t be anything else.
2 -
Liukke✭✭✭I don’t have any expectation when I am doing PUG. Just go in with open mind and have fun. Everyone of us started new and not everyone research in internet for a meta build. I remember back when I did search the internet for meta build and, at that time, I could not afford the cost (mere $27K for a Hunding Rage set) to get someone to craft gear set for me. Only then did I realize that I had to start farming in Craglorn to earn money.
Before, I just want to fight in dungeons but never have I imagined that I need to be a farmer to earn money to have better gear to fight in dungeons. I think many new players are in the same boat. No one wants to grind to mine ores to play dungeons. Sadly, there’s no other way to make money except through this mundane way.
So, cut people some slack. They just want to have fun. If people stop playing, you won’t find it fun because your Group Finder will have no one to match with.I've noticed what the OP pointed out in the last couple of days, possibly because more people are running dungeons during the event. Though, I think it's a great opportunity for new players to learn as long as they stick to normal dungeons. I'm not so new and I'm still learning myself. Personally, I don't have any problem if we take some time to clear a dungeon, the other day we had a player that kept dying - they even excused themselves, no big issue, next time I'm sure they'll do better. I'm using Thunderbug to help with mobs and Almalexia which hopefully will help melee DDs survivability and I usually have great fun!
You're totally right
The problem is that the game is stupid.
It's forcing people to do a random normal to get those damn transmute which basically means also endgame players do "NORMAL" dungeons just to get them.
Now it's forcing people to do veteran random to drop those stupid opal motifs (damn they look ugly) and even if they are not good they feel the need to try the vet one just for getting that drop.
In the end we have an overcrowded queue of people wanting to do dungeons of all sorts super fast because they are amazing and shiny but they forget that this should be a place for "normal" people, where mistakes and bad quality can happen and SHOULD happen...because it's an MMO.
I don't blame anyone, as always the game is quite bad at organizing events
3 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The key problem is that any player queing for DPS is never ever getting any quantified feedback for his performance by the game. Just a simple feedback: You do x% of the group damage! That would be enough. What I generally do is running combat metrics and posting the DPS to the group, via groupchat. I get mostly positive reactions and it helps not just me having a better run, but also the bad (fake) dps. It is not like they do it intentionally to screw my day.
If there would be a simple number, at the end of each dungeon run, evaluating the individual performance, the bad DPS would believe that they are actually bad. And the Groupfinder tool could use these evaluations for queing people of similar level together. How or even if that is possible, i can neither say, nor shall I speculate on.
As long as that is not happening, all we can do as a community, is give that feedback as honest and courteous as possible.
Some people need a hint, some a nudge and some a push.
read, think and write.In that order.7 -
Trensharo✭✭✭This is why I fake tank. Not because I wanna skip the line or be an a hole but because every time I'm real tank i get 5k dps. Even if I'm doing daily random with my real tank i have to change gear to dps so I can "fake" tank. And I always end up doing at least 50% of dps while still tanking.
And the funny thing is that some of these salty pugs try to kick me when they see that my hp is 22k lol. People dont even realize that they are being carried.
Not everyone wants an ezmode experience. There are newer players playing an MMORPG because they actually want that experience of being gimp this year and OP for the same content next year. They don't want you to carry them. I usually queue with friends, and we'd kick you to. You don't get it, and we don't have time to explain it to you. Two gimp DPS can solo most Normal Dungeons, anyways, so it's not like they are really losing out. It doesn't even take that much longer (usually it's shorter, because PUGs tend to love to stand around a lot for no apparent reason, grab every worthless chest, etc.).
We want to learn how to play the game properly, in a proper group, not with "fake tanks" "carrying" us in ez content. If you want to do that, then just solo the dungeon, or carry your guildies through it.
Why is the OP expecting much in a NORMAL dungeon Auto-PUG, anyways? We aren't even talking about veteran content. Normal dungeons are basically tutorial mode in this game.
Expect lots of newbies without Areana weapons or Monster Sets, probably wearing training gear and using the wrong Mundus - often with very low CPs - and they won't be spamming potions or playing the game like some hardcore Korean eSports professionals.
5 Guilds should be enough that you should never have to pug, if you are viewed as a decent person but others in game. I only have 1 guild, and I basically never have to PUG - unless I choose to do so (usually doing something with newbie non-guildie friends).Edited by Trensharo on December 5, 2020 11:49AM4 -
Trensharo✭✭✭Speaking as a relatively newbie tank here - I was told "don't make your first character a tank, always go dps first, it's easier"... I don't actually agree with that. I hear all this lingo about dots and rotations, and some of it I simply don't understand. I actually find the tank playstyle is more natural to me.
Now, because a tank has to be able to kill things in solo overland mode, and I do a lot of solo questing, I've spent champion points on upping my damage. I can pull a useful 6-7k dps consistently - which is, I understand, more than many dedicated pure tanks.
Low-damage DDs are FAR more likely to kill a run than a tank who didn't understand the mechanics. For a simple reason: if you don't understand the mechanics, you can be told them, and learn in mid-run (as long as people are willing to do that rather than simply call you a noob). But a low-damage DD can't suddenly triple their damage mid-run.
Example: Vet Imp City Prison, the fight with the flesh abomination. Tank gets blamed for dying to exploding hoarvors that do 42k damage (there are two in play which means I need 84k health!) The actual problem is DDs who didn't burn them down before they exploded.
Another example: Vet Fungal Grotto 2, second boss, your DDs have to BOTH be strong enough to take out a Shadow Tormentor singly, just in case it's the other DD who gets chained down by them. If one of your DDs is short, you'd just better hope that his mate never gets chained up. If *both* of them are running short, and they're doing 15k between them, then you're stuffed unless the tank can abandon his tanking to pile in on the shadow tormentor, and that leaves the healer vulnerable to the boss, so you're gonna lose somebody anyway...
When people say it's easier, they're probably referring to the leveling experience. Characters that do more damage level faster. It's hard to match the farming speed of an AOE DPS farming build on a Tank or Healer, unless you have a massive CP and/or Gearing advantage over the other.
Getting to 50/160 is faster as DPS than as Healer or Tank.
OP was not talking about Veteran Dungeons. He was referring to Normal Dungeons. I think the expectations for players DFing Normals should not be the same as those DFing Veterans...
People like you and others have simply taken over the thread and made it about Veterans so that you can *** and whine, and join the chorus.
The community in ESO are worse than WoW when it comes to dungeon etiquette, frankly. Congratulations on surpassing that low bar.Edited by Trensharo on December 5, 2020 12:07PM1 -
mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why I don't pug.
Its not being an elitist to ask for enough damage to reasonably clear content.
It is disrespectful to the people you que with if you que for vet group content without any clue or having put in no effort.
I can't stand the fake tanks and horrible dps or pure healer who only heal in dungeons.
It's all just horrible if you ask me and this is coming from someone who has pugged what is probably an unhealthy amount.
It's so much better to do dungeons with people you know all on mic, etc.
Thus pug thing is painful and not good for your mental wellbeing...2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is so wrong. The Expectation that DPS can only be done with Trial Gear and Monster sets is ridiculous. And it is a part of the problem.Expect lots of newbies without Areana weapons or Monster Sets, probably wearing training gear and using the wrong Mundus - often with very low CPs - and they won't be spamming potions or playing the game like some hardcore Korean eSports professionals.
DPS is 80% Playerskill, 15% optimized build and 5% server performance. Without the willingness to learn and the knowledge of how to, there cannot be improvement. Most people prefer to stay ignorant, because they can't handle personal critisism.
For example: I use crafted gear and overland sets. All OFF META. I can get 30K to 40K DPS during Dungeonruns. And I am THE definition of a casual Player, with a Job and a Family and max 3 hours gameplay per day, if at all.Edited by Zodiarkslayer on December 5, 2020 1:19PMread, think and write.In that order.5 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »DPS is 80% Playerskill, 15% optimized build and 5% server performance.
more like 80% server slug, 15% build & 5% player persistance fighting the slug
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy1 -
Pinesy✭✭✭LoneStar2911 wrote: »Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.
In all honesty, this is why i've swapped almost exclusively to tank or healing in group content. It works out, but then my patience is strained dealing with DPS that do "less DPS" than me when I _actually try_ to DPS, while i'm tanking... I hate slow runs.
Honestly, ZoS, just allow groups to have 3 DPS, 1 tank, 1 heal. Seriously, there's too much pressure on each of the two DPS in a 4 man group.Beezenees IGN (PC/NA)0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mainly tank but lately it has been brutal. The average dps i seem to get from random normal dungeon que is like 4-8k dps. its absolutely insane. My tank puts out 4-5k and the past few days im constantly seeing my dps being around 20%, with the total group dps being 25k or so.
twice in a row today i got group with "dps" that was 4k. The entire group dps was 12k. AND ONE OF THE DPS WAS CP803! SImilar situation Happend right after. Both times by 30k dps on my mag sorc fake tank was 75% of group damage with total group damage being 41k. that means if the healers didnt do a single lick of damage the 2 dps were doing 5.5k between them.
Now im forced to run on a hybrid tank dps. becuase of the absolute trash players that are so soft and complain and get angry when you try to give them tips to increase their dps. They yell about their play style and blah blah blah. Let people with crap playstyle be grouped together PLEASE. let them understand what its like to play with them. They arent punished in game at all for such low dps.
Please for the love of god add a que that requires a certain difficult ingame achivement related to that role your attempting to que as. Let the casuals play with eachother and let us more serious player do the same.
Whoah.. what level are you with only 4-5k dps? My tanks does more than that naked and barefisted, ha ha. Hybrid tanks are the way to go nowadays. You rarely see any tank rolling around these days with just S&B on both bars. I enjoy damaging with my tanks. I have stamsorc tank with 2H and S&B, both stam and magDK tanks with 2H and staff/S&B as well as Warden, stamplar and Necro tanks; all with 2H and staff/S&B respectfully. I don't like NB tank, though.
Don't speak for trials (as I don't really do it anymore,) but for dungeons, norm or vet, it's better to have a hybrid tank that can damage as well. As a tank, you shouldn't just taunt and hold block or perm block all the ways. You're not doing your group justice that way. Nahh.. I'll taunt with Pierce Armor and throw down shields and whatever other buffs and debuffs and group assists, and then switch bar to the damaging 2H or staff skillsets. Repeat as the taunt about to wear off. Killing dragons and at Harrowstorms better with a hybrid tank as well.
I don't mind running dungeons with lowbies or lower dps players (well, non vet and non-dlc ones, that is. ha ha.) I enjoy damaging with my tanks; even when I take my lowbies in as well. Well, it's even better to run vet dungeons with a hybrid tank. So, sorry you feel you are being forced into the awesomeness of a hybrid tank. Ha ha0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »I don't mind running dungeons with lowbies or lower dps players (well, non vet and non-dlc ones, that is. ha ha.) I enjoy damaging with my tanks; even when I take my lowbies in as well. Well, it's even better to run vet dungeons with a hybrid tank. So, sorry you feel you are being forced into the awesomeness of a hybrid tank. Ha ha
Most of my characters are tank/dd hybrids as well but they do have their time and place... which isn't for everything, as you note. Doing veteran dungeons with a fractured trinity is... it can go sideways really fast. I can't blame anyone for being frustrated by taking a tank proper (aka, full tank, not a tank/dd hybrid) into veteran content and then getting folks who are not proper in their roles. It's possible to absorb some of that on a tank proper, but not very well and depending on the dungeon and how bad the trinity is fractured, it just can't be done.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Sometimes my GF and I will queue with a terribly geared DPS toon, but only if the other is on their strongest DPS to help balance out the DPS.
Frankly though, I dont like running vets because most of my characters are worth about 20k DPS (in a dungeon) and I feel bad that I do not pull hard numbers for fast runs.
I really have no clue how players pull ridiculous numbers. I try to min max the race with the skills, rotations, weave etc etc and the best I have done is about 47k on the new trial target dummy on my best geared, golded, min maxed character.
I don't know if its because I play all magicka, or if I just suck but I just dont seem to be able to pull hard numbers. So, if I am one of these guys in your runs, I apologize. I dont want to suck, I just cant figure out how not to.
If you are doing 47K on the trial dummy you are fine. 20k on the 3mil is also fine. The way you push the really big numbers is practice, lots and lots of practice. You work on keeping all your bugs and dots up near 100% of the time, hitting all LA’s at a perfect pace depending on the skills being used in your rotation. Take magplar as an example weaving sweep and weaving elemental weapons are two entirely different animals all together. That weaving pattern can affect the amount of spamable’s you are able to squeeze in while keeping those dots up. Typical magplar rotation of ~10 seconds gets 4x spamable in there. If you miss a light attack while channeling sweeps is a few K lost over 10 seconds which is next to nothing, but if you missfire a LA after casting ele weapons you are losing ~30k in one shot on that dummy. That’s 3K loss per second by missing one. Miss 2 and a that’s 6k lost. You are also losing out on bonus damage if you are using purifying light and missing those LA’s. If you have to heavy attack to sustain you lose damage, if you can’t keep up you minor force buff though either trap beast or channel accel you lose damage. It adds up fast, but I would say at 47K once you get the timing down you will shoot up in bunches 50-60K is working reach with a little work and a tighter rotation. Above that it’s getting faster that matters. Go slower and go for accuracy before working on speed. All told at first it may be 3 spamable instead of 4 (or whatever your build calls for) but you will understand what it means to have max uptime on all dots and buffs.
Thanks for the heads up. I try to do much of what you listed, but I don't think I will ever get it down perfectly. Sometimes my bar does not swap when I need it to, its hard for me to read the buffs. I really wish there was an easier way to see your buffs. The UI is not friendly in this regard. I think I spent a lot of time over writing my buffs, or letting them fall of big time because I get lost in the action of the fight.
One of my major complaints about this game is buff duration. I understand procs should be low, but I am used to buffs lasting much longer unless its a long cool down.
For example in wow, if you give a spell power buff to a party, it lasts for 1 hour. I think its dumb that in eso I have to refresh that buff every 30 seconds or so. IMO, it gets in the way of the fun stuff. But in wow long cool down spells (some of their spell can only be used like 1 time ever 2, 3 5 or even 10 minutes), those should have a short duration.
Anyway. Thank you again. I will save your post and reference it often. Much appreciated!2 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've done my good deed for today. Tanked or healed various noobs in their quest for the 10 transmute crystals.1 -
Choucroute✭✭LoneStar2911 wrote: »Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.
It... It really doesn't. You're talking about min-maxing players who can do 90k-110k on a dummy.
You don't need to research so many things in order to just be decent, just read your skills, passives, understand them and think.
Whether it's DPS, tanks or healers, I regularly talk with people who have no understanding of how their class or skills work, and how they can or will synergize. They don't even know what passives they have!
When I started DPSing, the only research I did was checking what beginner DPS sets were good and what LA weaving was. Then I thought about my skills, what I needed to use and how - I didn't follow any builds or looked up a rotation. And bam, I could solo every WB, most dungeons, could clear vMA rather easily without any cheese builds, etc..
I didn't even bother to learn to LA weave correctly back then, even if you chain your LAs and use your skills every second or so without trying to have a perfect rythm you should be able to reach 0.60-0.70 LA/s - which is more than enough for good DPS.
At that time with 0.60ish LA/s I did 65-70k on a dummy, and there were fewer debuffs than on the current trial dummy. So being able to reach 40-50k on a dummy (which is all you need for normal dungeons, even most vet dungeons) is more than doable.
Sometimes I see people cast their 10s DoTs only once every 20-30s, yet they still wonder why their DPS is that low in comparison... If you're not using your skills it means you're not actually doing anything, so why wouldn't it be low?
Anyway, imo there's no excuses when a full tank is 55% of the damage on the final boss literally with just their pokie taunt, Blastbones and one Colossus ulti. One of the DPS was above CP 160, who knows if the other one was a true newbie or actually had CP.
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