Tired of fake dps

Dark_Lord_Kuro

RageKing wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

if they are new players yes i understand. but these are more times than not cp600+ people.

What is your point? These days it is entirely possibly to get to high cp without doing more than overland content, never being exposed to anything that would force you to learn how to play "properly".

And if your playstyles consists of roleplaying in a group dungeon with completely trash gear. maybe it isYOU that should be grouping with friends and not using the que. SInce YOU are in fact out of order and being toxic to the other players who are forced to carry your YOUR slack. YOU are the problem. Dont infect and make other peoples experience miserable because YOU dont want to put in effort.

M8 you are complaining about bads queuing for normal dungeons. The content designed for the bads to be able to get through. If random normals are such a terrible experience for you as a tank, and you are in fact several skill levels above the bads, then throw on some dps sets and skills and just power through the dungeons like any skilled dps can.

Otherwise, if you are dead set on doing random normals as a tank, then just accept that bads are a part of the game and you will never escape them while doing randoms. This is true of any game with a random matchmaking feature.

Bro its just as bad in vet. Im saying its happening in normal as well and people dont care. my whole point is that we need a seperate group finder for casuals and veterans, its know a crazy idea. other games have them as well. ESO needs one

Its already here its called normal and veteran

LoneStar2911

Adventurer wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

(Am fully aware that there is that one class that can do that with one bar and one skill, but not everyone wants to be that.)

Which one is that?

Pretty sure it's Sorcerer.

Everest_Lionheart

None of those metrics are available to us on console so you roll with what you got and figure it out on the way. Usually first boss is a good measure, sometimes the first add pull, but a couple really strong dps can cover up fake tanks or fake healers all the way to the final boss of many vet dungeons.

Honestly though much of the game is easier with the 3DD 1T composition anyway but healers are needed for specific content because there is no way the DD are going to out heal certain mechanics even with your pale order rings. I just wish people running the wrong role would just put that in chat up front that way I can slot the requisite skills or gear to make the whole run easier.

RageKing

i get it that alot of people saying normal is meant for newbies and i get that. nut your not a newbies if your over cp600 and should be expected to put more than 5k dps as a dps when queing in either normal or veteran content. my gripe is that there are high cp players who do trash dps and get mad and offensive when you tell them that they need to up their dps.

if im running NORMAL spindle1, probably the easiest damn dungeon in the game and one of my dps is like cp700 and is doing 5k dps. What the hell do i do? I say hey man why your dps so low. then he gets made and says dont tell me about my playstyle and keeps trucking along doing 5k dps.
Whats the solution? oh well thats what you get in pug ques? go ask your guilds to group up.
"ask all 3 of my guilds with over 400 players, "anyone for random normal? no answer, guess ill pug it."

its these high cp dps that dont actually do dps that is the problem not me because i want to you the que.
so instead of saying it is what it is or group with friends or guild members. why cant we say "yea there should be some way to check if people can actually fulfill the role they are signing up to do in a GROUP tool finder with specific roles that each player must satisfy. if you cant satisfy that role you shouldn't que for that role. PERIOD!



so if your dps is just as much as a tank at around 5-6k then your not a dps, your a fake tank. because you cant actually tank but you cant dps either.

VoidCommander

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

Stamplar is the cure my friend. 3 abilities with top numbers

Athan1

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

Daemons_Bane

RageKing wrote: »

i get it that alot of people saying normal is meant for newbies and i get that. nut your not a newbies if your over cp600 and should be expected to put more than 5k dps as a dps when queing in either normal or veteran content. my gripe is that there are high cp players who do trash dps and get mad and offensive when you tell them that they need to up their dps.

if im running NORMAL spindle1, probably the easiest damn dungeon in the game and one of my dps is like cp700 and is doing 5k dps. What the hell do i do? I say hey man why your dps so low. then he gets made and says dont tell me about my playstyle and keeps trucking along doing 5k dps.
Whats the solution? oh well thats what you get in pug ques? go ask your guilds to group up.
"ask all 3 of my guilds with over 400 players, "anyone for random normal? no answer, guess ill pug it."

its these high cp dps that dont actually do dps that is the problem not me because i want to you the que.
so instead of saying it is what it is or group with friends or guild members. why cant we say "yea there should be some way to check if people can actually fulfill the role they are signing up to do in a GROUP tool finder with specific roles that each player must satisfy. if you cant satisfy that role you shouldn't que for that role. PERIOD!



so if your dps is just as much as a tank at around 5-6k then your not a dps, your a fake tank. because you cant actually tank but you cant dps either.

You forget a golden rule.. CP is not a measure of how good you are..

Recent

Ive been doing more dps as a healer to help compensate for the low dps in the normal groups ive been pugging.

I dont mind doing dps too as i have 2 bars so not a problemBUT these same low dps players stand in red and stay there as long as possible so i then have to try keep them a live through that

Ffs if you do oow dps please dont stand in the red so healer can have a break from healing a help out with the dps
Thank you....and i think at low levels you need to get some gear crafted to help you a bit too .

Im not judging low dps it takes tome to learn rotations etc but please dont stand in red okay 😊💕

RageKing

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

renne

RageKing wrote: »

i get it that alot of people saying normal is meant for newbies and i get that. nut your not a newbies if your over cp600 and should be expected to put more than 5k dps as a dps when queing in either normal or veteran content. my gripe is that there are high cp players who do trash dps and get mad and offensive when you tell them that they need to up their dps.

CP is literally just a measure of how much time a person has put into the game. It doesn't mean jack when it comes to the quality of play or expected DPS numbers.

You can still be a "newbie" at CP810 if you've not done dungeons before, if you've previously only done overland content which for the most part doesn't even have mechanics that'll bother anyone.

Linaleah

this thread is why I take my fake dps into fungal grotto 1 solo nowadays for this event, because dealing with elitists is exhausting, and I can clear FG1 with my subpar dps just fine without having to be b****ed at by people with lofty expectations.

Faiza

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

Runefang

This is why group finder is only for content where you can carry the team. Otherwise find a group.

Tsar_Gekkou

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

idk

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Trensharo wrote: »

Expect lots of newbies without Areana weapons or Monster Sets, probably wearing training gear and using the wrong Mundus - often with very low CPs - and they won't be spamming potions or playing the game like some hardcore Korean eSports professionals.

This is so wrong. The Expectation that DPS can only be done with Trial Gear and Monster sets is ridiculous. And it is a part of the problem.

DPS is 80% Playerskill, 15% optimized build and 5% server performance. Without the willingness to learn and the knowledge of how to, there cannot be improvement. Most people prefer to stay ignorant, because they can't handle personal critisism.

For example: I use crafted gear and overland sets. All OFF META. I can get 30K to 40K DPS during Dungeonruns. And I am THE definition of a casual Player, with a Job and a Family and max 3 hours gameplay per day, if at all.

This explains things well. We have seen a video posted of people with something like 250-300 ping still hitting 80k. As such the only reasoning for a player struggling to hit 20k or even 40k when they are copying a build is the player's skill.

Faiza

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

You are literally never going to be able to avoid people who don't meet your standards. Never.

WoW has multiple dungeon modes - normal, heroic, mythic, mythic+(from 2 to 20), and there's a system that scores you based on your performance in past dungeons AND there are proving grounds AND achievement locked dungeons AND minimum item level requirements

And guess what lol

You're still going to get people who suck. They're not avoidable. But it's not fair to go into content that designed for everyone and get upset that someone isn't playing the way you want.

If being exposed to general population who don't take the game as seriously as you guys do bothers you that much, you have to create your own groups and stay out of casual content.

Again - OP is griping about normals. The dps required to clear a normal is very literally on the ground. They're for players who want skillpoints, quests, to experience the content, view continuation of the stories, etc.

If you want to farm a dungeon and don't want the hassle of dealing with players beneath you - the onus is on YOU not them to stick to modes that are appropriate for you.

Tsar_Gekkou

Faiza wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

The dps required to clear a normal is very literally on the ground.

You're ignoring the fact that even that amount of dps is somehow too much for some people. I just bailed on a random normal that was Moon Hunter Keep: me on a dps, a fake tank with a 2-hander/resto wearing winter's respite, and another dps with a bow/resto wearing winter's respite. We couldn't even beat the first boss because they were dying to nothing (despite having resto staffs with a set that gives a free ground aoe that heals them) while the boss and most of the adds were chasing me until the boss's lockdown mechanic 1-shot me because no one else was alive interrupt it. We rezed, tried again, failed the same way again, then I left. This isn't as uncommon as you might think, but wanting people to at least try is apparently "elitist."

Faiza

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

The dps required to clear a normal is very literally on the ground.

You're ignoring the fact that even that amount of dps is somehow too much for some people. I just bailed on a random normal that was Moon Hunter Keep: me on a dps, a fake tank with a 2-hander/resto wearing winter's respite, and another dps with a bow/resto wearing winter's respite. We couldn't even beat the first boss because they were dying to nothing (despite having resto staffs with a set that gives a free ground aoe that heals them) while the boss and most of the adds were chasing me until the boss's lockdown mechanic 1-shot me because no one else was alive interrupt it. We rezed, tried again, failed the same way again, then I left. This isn't as uncommon as you might think, but wanting people to at least try is apparently "elitist."

I'm not ignoring it. The only way to ensure that you're never going to get a bad player ever is to make premade groups.

If you go into the normal random queue you get what you're gonna get ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also Moon Hunter Keep isn't a dps race. It sounds like your group mates didn't know the mechanics and that probably no one was communicating with each other. That's an entirely different issue than low dps but again - make a premade or stick to the veteran queue.

CrimsonGTX

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

You're ignoring the fact that even that amount of dps is somehow too much for some people. I just bailed on a random normal that was Moon Hunter Keep: me on a dps, a fake tank with a 2-hander/resto wearing winter's respite, and another dps with a bow/resto wearing winter's respite. We couldn't even beat the first boss because they were dying to nothing (despite having resto staffs with a set that gives a free ground aoe that heals them) while the boss and most of the adds were chasing me until the boss's lockdown mechanic 1-shot me because no one else was alive interrupt it. We rezed, tried again, failed the same way again, then I left. This isn't as uncommon as you might think, but wanting people to at least try is apparently "elitist."

The scene of this made me laugh

idk

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

The dps required to clear a normal is very literally on the ground.

You're ignoring the fact that even that amount of dps is somehow too much for some people. I just bailed on a random normal that was Moon Hunter Keep: me on a dps, a fake tank with a 2-hander/resto wearing winter's respite, and another dps with a bow/resto wearing winter's respite. We couldn't even beat the first boss because they were dying to nothing (despite having resto staffs with a set that gives a free ground aoe that heals them) while the boss and most of the adds were chasing me until the boss's lockdown mechanic 1-shot me because no one else was alive interrupt it. We rezed, tried again, failed the same way again, then I left. This isn't as uncommon as you might think, but wanting people to at least try is apparently "elitist."

It is very common. Most decent players run with pre-made groups. Often with guildmates. As such a lot of the players that use the GF to get into a group are heavily what is left.

I group of friends and myself will queue up a couple times a week with only three of us to see what we get. We see players, even high CP players, that do not get out of the telegraphed PBAoE of the boss or even try to block. They get one shot time after time and seem to think it is ok because they can get rezzed.

I have even seen a high CP player that specifically stated they did not have an interrupt. This was a melee stam player who seemed to be oblivious that we all have an interrupt. This was in Moon Hunter Keep as well.

It can be very entertaining but we do treat everyone kindly unless they end up being a jerk. We can carry people through most dungeons and we do come across some decent players.

Tsar_Gekkou

idk wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Fake tanks or fake healers are dps that queue as tanks or healers to cut queuing times and are not fulfilling their role.

There's no such thing as fake dps; only bad dps.

This is another 'git gud' thread.

no this is a 'we need a actual veteran que that has some sort of proving grounds for your role' thread

Then queue for veterans and stay out of the normal queue.

The problem is that people who refuse to try and pull their own weight are in both .

The dps required to clear a normal is very literally on the ground.

You're ignoring the fact that even that amount of dps is somehow too much for some people. I just bailed on a random normal that was Moon Hunter Keep: me on a dps, a fake tank with a 2-hander/resto wearing winter's respite, and another dps with a bow/resto wearing winter's respite. We couldn't even beat the first boss because they were dying to nothing (despite having resto staffs with a set that gives a free ground aoe that heals them) while the boss and most of the adds were chasing me until the boss's lockdown mechanic 1-shot me because no one else was alive interrupt it. We rezed, tried again, failed the same way again, then I left. This isn't as uncommon as you might think, but wanting people to at least try is apparently "elitist."

It is very common. Most decent players run with pre-made groups. Often with guildmates. As such a lot of the players that use the GF to get into a group are heavily what is left.

I group of friends and myself will queue up a couple times a week with only three of us to see what we get. We see players, even high CP players, that do not get out of the telegraphed PBAoE of the boss or even try to block. They get one shot time after time and seem to think it is ok because they can get rezzed.

I have even seen a high CP player that specifically stated they did not have an interrupt. This was a melee stam player who seemed to be oblivious that we all have an interrupt. This was in Moon Hunter Keep as well.

It can be very entertaining but we do treat everyone kindly unless they end up being a jerk. We can carry people through most dungeons and we do come across some decent players.

What's funny is that if they could've just stayed alive for a few more seconds and bashed the boss, I could've carried them through the rest of the dungeon. All they had to do is live long enough in a normal dungeon to hit LT+RT once with their dying breaths and it would've been smooth sailing from there.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

The real problem is not that they are fake dps, it the vet player expecting new player to be good dps

The game let you que for normal dungeon as soon as level 10-12 for some dungeon with more gradually unlocking up until lv45 for dlc dungeon, 50 for vet and cp300 for vet dlc

That rigth if someone want he can queu for its very first dungeon about an hour or 2 in its first ever character and sorry to break your illusion he wont have 15k dps not even close

And before you say that person shoulnt queu for a dungeon at that time, he do get a quest to do a dungeon in the first town of the first alliances zones from the undauted

Therefore Normal IS made for low level character/low dps in mind

As for veteran
They are made for veteran player wich according to the game very own leveling system wich is now discontinued, is a player that attained lvl 50 even without champion point

Also the group finder is for the poeple without a guild/group of friends to play with, all of them

The game is very bad at teaching people how to dps correctly or even what roles are for that matter

The next part is my perspective of the game a few years back

Before homestead there was no good way to know the dps of a player on console, well there was bloodspawn some people used but it was nowhere near as efficiant as a dummy. I personnally taught i was a good dps not awesome but not bad either. I taught the time it took to kill stuff was just how difficulty scaled in this game, including in vet dungeon. Nothing told me it wasnt the case. I also had a rotation but only because i played anoter mmo before (dcuo)

Then home stead came around and i purchased my first home( old mistveil manor if you want to know) and while browsing the crown store part of the housing menu i saw the dummy, i knew what it was sice dcuo also feature dummy so i bought on and tested my dps....it was 8k... i was cp605...(i remember because the patch put max cp at 600 wich i passed a only a few days prior to it) again nothing told me it wasnt that good.

I continued doing dungeon with my 8k dps, but when morrowind came around, wich i preordered the physical collector as i randomly found it on ebgames website. When i went to pick it up, one of my coworker did the same. I was surprise to learn he came for the same reason. That evening i was in a guild. Then and only then i knew 8k wasnt good and got the learn about ligth attack, dots and the importance of set. I was wearing non set crafted white armor

We shouldnt expect player to go outside of the game to learn how to play the game in my opinion

zaria

VoidCommander wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

Stamplar is the cure my friend. 3 abilities with top numbers

Templar are very easy and forgiving to play, might want to test out stamplar, has had lots of fun returning to my magplar.
DD / heal with overland gear doing more dps than my stamsorc main.

LoneStar2911

Templars are great. I main a magicka templar, and have 3 or 4 other templars. Hahaha. Love 'em.

eovogtb16_ESO

Liukke wrote: »

belfong wrote: »

I don’t have any expectation when I am doing PUG. Just go in with open mind and have fun. Everyone of us started new and not everyone research in internet for a meta build. I remember back when I did search the internet for meta build and, at that time, I could not afford the cost (mere $27K for a Hunding Rage set) to get someone to craft gear set for me. Only then did I realize that I had to start farming in Craglorn to earn money.

Before, I just want to fight in dungeons but never have I imagined that I need to be a farmer to earn money to have better gear to fight in dungeons. I think many new players are in the same boat. No one wants to grind to mine ores to play dungeons. Sadly, there’s no other way to make money except through this mundane way.

So, cut people some slack. They just want to have fun. If people stop playing, you won’t find it fun because your Group Finder will have no one to match with.

wheresbes wrote: »

I've noticed what the OP pointed out in the last couple of days, possibly because more people are running dungeons during the event. Though, I think it's a great opportunity for new players to learn as long as they stick to normal dungeons. I'm not so new and I'm still learning myself. Personally, I don't have any problem if we take some time to clear a dungeon, the other day we had a player that kept dying - they even excused themselves, no big issue, next time I'm sure they'll do better. I'm using Thunderbug to help with mobs and Almalexia which hopefully will help melee DDs survivability and I usually have great fun!

You're totally right

The problem is that the game is stupid.
It's forcing people to do a random normal to get those damn transmute which basically means also endgame players do "NORMAL" dungeons just to get them.
Now it's forcing people to do veteran random to drop those stupid opal motifs (damn they look ugly) and even if they are not good they feel the need to try the vet one just for getting that drop.

In the end we have an overcrowded queue of people wanting to do dungeons of all sorts super fast because they are amazing and shiny but they forget that this should be a place for "normal" people, where mistakes and bad quality can happen and SHOULD happen...because it's an MMO.

I don't blame anyone, as always the game is quite bad at organizing events

I've never done a random normal since I got veteran ranks. Random vets all day baby. Shouldn't be legal for some people who do massive dps to even queue for normals. It does what other people say and make the popple who are being carried through normal think they are ready for vet, which is not true, the amount of DPS who I queue with who pull less than a tank is insane. I am constantly doing 80%+ group dps in random vets when that number should be closer to 40%

stevenyaub16_ESO

Tank with tormentor set and master 2Handed (spam brawler) and that will solve most of your problems. You get enough resists from the bonus that you can go 5/2 medium.

Salvas_Aren

Mindcr0w wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Bro its just as bad in vet. Im saying its happening in normal as well and people dont care. my whole point is that we need a seperate group finder for casuals and veterans, its know a crazy idea. other games have them as well. ESO needs one

Other games use things like gearscore to separate that stuff, which ESO doesn't really utilize. And even if it did it would be meaningless as what the game recognizes as "powerful" gear is easily acquired by anyone of even the lowest skill level.

Expecting people to go for achievements to gain access to a queue is a great way to ensure almost no one bothers getting access to that queue.

There is no practical way to implement such a thing in this particular game, and even if there were it would be far far down the list of priorities to be worked on by the devs when the game barely functions a significant chunk of the time.

Accept that being grouped with bads is a possibility when queuing randoms. Or don't, it's your stress levels.

Forget practical ways to implement this. Zeni will never do it, no matter possible or not.

We talk about the company that closed the group damage API because someone sensed DPS racism.

PizzaCat82

Whenever I did tanking in Normal I was always the highest DPS. with 1 hand and shield. And It was not high at all.

DaveMoeDee

Pugging vet dungeons that are part of this event has been great. Usually we are all max CP and the DPS seems good. I am tanking. Much better than the usual experience as there are a lot of good players going for the outfit pages.

prof-dracko

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

The key problem is that any player queing for DPS is never ever getting any quantified feedback for his performance by the game. Just a simple feedback: You do x% of the group damage! That would be enough. What I generally do is running combat metrics and posting the DPS to the group, via groupchat. I get mostly positive reactions and it helps not just me having a better run, but also the bad (fake) dps. It is not like they do it intentionally to screw my day.

If there would be a simple number, at the end of each dungeon run, evaluating the individual performance, the bad DPS would believe that they are actually bad. And the Groupfinder tool could use these evaluations for queing people of similar level together. How or even if that is possible, i can neither say, nor shall I speculate on.

As long as that is not happening, all we can do as a community, is give that feedback as honest and courteous as possible.
Some people need a hint, some a nudge and some a push.

This. They give out stat screen like that (sort of) for Battlegrounds. You don't even need to put numbers, just rank everyone according to how much damage dealt/taken/healed they did. That way you can see at a glace how you stack up with the rest of your team and, for example, if you see the healer number one in the "damage dealt" spot, you know your DPS wasn't up to snuff.