Change to the patch notes (Boss drops)

Kythia · April 2014

crush83 wrote: »

This isn't the answer. Bots will still get loot once every several minutes. It's still worth them setting up camp and farming the boss.

We need Diminishing Returns. (I'm sick of preaching this, honestly)

10 minute cooldown window. If you kill the boss within that 10 minute window it gets refreshed. This is literally the most important part of why this will effectively nullify bots camping bosses. If they camp, they will never get loot again.

The more kills you get within your cooldown window, the less likely you are to get loot until eventually you get none. I'll let ZOS determine the logarithmic curve.

If you wait 10 minutes between kills, then your window expires, and you get full loot again.

Adjust the 10 minutes to be inline with the content.

Done. End of story. Why is this still not implemented?

Hello? Support? Someone just did half the work for you!

crush83 · April 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

The bots will simply farm a boss, teleport to another, teleport to another ... come back to the first one when the time limit has expired. Rinse and repeat.

There's really no excuse for them not handling the teleport issue. That's just lazy server-side checking (or complete lack thereof). We're talking fundamental and elementary stuff.

d = vt

kevjon74_ESO · April 2014

So you eliminate bosses as a viable farming spot. So where do you think the bots will go after that? Bots are gonna bot. At least with bosses they were in relatively few, predictable locations. Somehow I don't think that forcing the bots out into other areas all over the place isn't such a great idea.

Saerydoth · April 2014

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

So you eliminate bosses as a viable farming spot. So where do you think the bots will go after that? Bots are gonna bot. At least with bosses they were in relatively few, predictable locations. Somehow I don't think that forcing the bots out into other areas all over the place isn't such a great idea.

Actually, I think it is. Because bot investigations take time (unless you want a bunch of innocent players caught up in ban waves). I would rather have the botters spread out, rather than concentrating in public dungeons rendering them unplayable.

crush83 · April 2014

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

So you eliminate bosses as a viable farming spot. So where do you think the bots will go after that? Bots are gonna bot. At least with bosses they were in relatively few, predictable locations. Somehow I don't think that forcing the bots out into other areas all over the place isn't such a great idea.

If the bots are spread out, it won't impact your experience as harshly. That is, unless the population of bots expands dramatically.

kccaine · April 2014

There's another side to this equation. The only reason botting is profitable is because stupid people buy gold. Ban both the supplier and the consumer and your problem will dry up quickly.

Saerydoth · April 2014

kccaine wrote: »

There's another side to this equation. The only reason botting is profitable is because stupid people buy gold. Ban both the supplier and the consumer and your problem will dry up quickly.

While this is true, it's a never ending cycle. There will always be stupid people buying gold, and you can't ban them for buying gold before they do it, unless you can predict the future accurately. So the gold famers/botters will always get their funding, and they will always have a never ending supply of stolen credit cards to buy accounts with, because there will always be a significant number of people that don't keep their accounts secure.

The key here is not to try to get rid of all the gold sellers and botters (because that's not possible), but to find the proper balance that makes life REALLY hard for the botters while not impacting legitimate players much. The timer on public dungeon bosses is a great start, although I think it should also be combined with diminishing returns on drops from farming the same thing over and over.

Rantog · April 2014

I haven't been over to read patch notes - was this an actual change?
- If so, I have lost what little .. microscopic.. bit of hope I had left for Zenimax running this thing.

Because barring the Bots from getting full loot - by Character - to /10 minutes, simply means they will rotate between the characters on the account.

Park 8 at the boss.. kill once, log to char 2, kill once, log to char 3.. then linger on char 8 until the timer expires in 1-7.
Why linger? Because they do this as much to Prevent Real Players Getting Loot as they do to Get the loot themselves.

Arsenic_Touch · April 2014

Was this even implemented yet?

Mace · April 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Was this even implemented yet?

Appears so. Getting in game now to check.

driosketch · April 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

deathly809_ESO wrote: »

"You now need to wait several minutes after looting a delve or overworld boss before you are eligible to receive loot from these types of bosses again."

Like 5 minutes? Sometimes the "bosses" spawn in minutes of the last kill.
@ZOS_JESSICAFOLSOM Do you think it would be possible for more clarification on this? Thanks!

Will make *no* difference to any of the bots what-so-ever.
The only thing this does accomplish is to make us who don't bot even more upset.

The bots will simply farm a boss, teleport to another, teleport to another ... come back to the first one when the time limit has expired. Rinse and repeat.
It won't slow them down ONE BIT.

Yet real players will feel the impact ...

They said it would be a shared cool down timer across all delv/world bosses. The patch note words it as "this type of boss" rather than this specific boss. Even if they teleport around, this tells me they still aren't getting any loot until the timer resets.

Daverios · April 2014

PS bots are NOT killing bosses for loot period they NEVER were. They do it because its the onlt effective means to level multie chars simultaneously. You can make way more gold per hour in high lvl zones their goal is to get all thier toons there.

This will do nothing to deter even a single bot mark my words.

SuperScrubby · April 2014

But because they're a bot they will spend all day 24/7 in the same dungeon as it is. So rather than getting a drop every minute they'll now get a drop every 3 minutes. For a bot that has 1,440 minutes a day it doesn't matter to it anyways since it will always fill its bags with blues. So rather than having 1,440 opportunities for a blue its 480.

However for a real person do you want to wait 10 minutes for 3 tries?

Arsenic_Touch · April 2014

Daverios wrote: »

PS bots are NOT killing bosses for loot period they NEVER were. They do it because its the onlt effective means to level multie chars simultaneously.

This will do nothing to deter even a single bot mark my words.

...right, so the fact that there's at least 30 bots running in eastmarch on the mob that drops a blue worth 125g a pop + the soul gems that are worth quite a bit is all for leveling and not because of the loot. Uhuh.

cubansyrusb16_ESO · April 2014

So if they add a 10min timer to the bosses.....

That would mean if im going back through zones to collect public dungeons i missed, i would have to kill one boss, go to the next dungeon and sit and wait till im eligible for loot from another one.

Not only does a loot timer on bosses affect the bot but it also effects people catching up on what they missed, making a task which should have took me say 20mins to clear 6 bosses + travel take a minimum of 60mins .

Cause lets be honest here these bosses either take 2 mins to run through cause everything is dead or you out level them so much it takes the same amount of time.

On another note not everyone farming these bosses are bots, i have seen many people farming them for blues for crafting or farming the for blues to twink there character before moving on with quest, these are also people who are effected .... yes bots are annoying and i wish there was a way to get rid of them, but the suggested timer effects others aswell as bots !!

Maybe add a system that asks the players a question if they haven't clicked a button or moved for 10mins ..... idk ... the timer is just not a good thing as it would effect players farming instanced non public dungeons for loot aswell.

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2014

Saerydoth wrote: »

Did this change go in with the patch on Monday and it was just left out of the patch notes? Or was it added in the hotfix today?

It went with the patch on Monday - it was just accidentally left out. Sorry about that!

crush83 · April 2014

Daverios wrote: »

PS bots are NOT killing bosses for loot period they NEVER were. They do it because its the onlt effective means to level multie chars simultaneously. You can make way more gold per hour in high lvl zones their goal is to get all thier toons there.

This will do nothing to deter even a single bot mark my words.

You are aware that you get virtually no XP for killing bosses, right? It's not difficult to write bots to follow a specific quest line from start to finish which would level a bot much, much, much faster. Yes, it's more data entry, but you do it once, and it's done for all bots.

Dodece · April 2014

That is the problem isn't it. The population has been expanding daily. The real problem is a lack of stewardship. They can't just code their way out of this little predicament. They need to get feet on the ground in their servers, and start cracking skulls. Will it stop the problem outright. Absolutely not, but cheating is like crime in general. In other words it is something manageable.

We hire police not to stop all crime period, but they are a heck of a deterrent to people who contemplate committing crimes. In other words it does make those who are contemplating crimes less likely to commit them, and for those that do commit crimes it gives them a healthy sense of fear if not respect. What we are seeing right now is cheaters acting like peacocks. When what they should be acting like is cockroaches.

Bottom line is they still need an in game support staff to police their servers. To keep this kind of scum from alienating their customers away from using their product. Something they have spent a great deal of money creating. If they were of the mindset that they weren't going to have to pay some people to keep the streets clean. They should revisit that particular notion as soon as is possible.

I know saying this may make me unpopular, but they should get ban happy in a serious way. I think they need to make a serious statement about not tolerating bad behavior. Right now the hackers, cheaters, and bots aren't in the slightest concerned about their bad acts having consequences.

felixgamingx1 · April 2014

@ZOS_JESSICAFOLSOM Do you think it would be possible for more clarification on this? Thanks

The Bots gotta go no one likes them you can't get loot because they kill mob before you even touch it and sometimes just one hit doesn't count for loot.

I wasted 45 minutes of my time trying to get loot and nothing...

rdfarley89 · April 2014

Two things on this. I have killed a public dungeon boss 3 times in a row, and got loot each time, within a few minutes of each other. Also, the patch notes mentioned group dungeon chests being shared with the whole group, this also is not working properly/not happening as it was shown on the patch notes. I have submitted feedback to CS for both of these issues, so yes something is off with that.

ShadowOfOblivion · April 2014

crush83 wrote: »

This isn't the answer. Bots will still get loot once every several minutes. It's still worth them setting up camp and farming the boss.

We need Diminishing Returns. (I'm sick of preaching this, honestly)

10 minute cooldown window. If you kill the boss within that 10 minute window it gets refreshed. This is literally the most important part of why this will effectively nullify bots camping bosses. If they camp, they will never get loot again.

The more kills you get within your cooldown window, the less likely you are to get loot until eventually you get none. I'll let ZOS determine the logarithmic curve.

If you wait 10 minutes between kills, then your window expires, and you get full loot again.

Adjust the 10 minutes to be inline with the content.

Done. End of story. Why is this still not implemented?

And what you do with people like me - I kill bosses until I get their blue item?
Will you add to this a guaranteed blue on first kill or I'll suffer because you don't like bots (which do not exist in the VR content

)?

crush83 · April 2014

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

And what you do with people like me - I kill bosses until I get their blue item?
Will you add to this a guaranteed blue on first kill or I'll suffer because you don't like bots (which do not exist in the VR content )?

Diminishing returns doesn't mean you get loot on the first attempt, or no loot at all. It means the more you kill, the lower your chances are of getting something valuable.

So, maybe you kill the boss 5 times in a row, and don't get the blue. Wait ten minutes (or whatever the threshold is) and then come back and try again. In other words, no, it doesn't stop you from getting that blue. It simply doesn't allow you to farm it endlessly without taking a break.

Holycannoli · April 2014

If they can't bot the bosses effectively anymore they'll just move outside. I already saw groups of bots running around outside today.

I don't want to see boss loot nerfed like this. They don't always drop their loot and now you have to wait for the next chance. That's a waste of time.

crush83 · April 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

If they can't bot the bosses effectively anymore they'll just move outside. I already saw groups of bots running around outside today.

I don't want to see boss loot nerfed like this. They don't always drop their loot and now you have to wait for the next chance. That's a waste of time.

What's worse? Never getting a chance at a loot because you can't get a hit on the boss, or having to wait 3 minutes between loot attempts?

This isn't an end solution. It's a stop gap measure until they can get a decent bot detection system put together.

Woogawoman · April 2014

All I know is that the last time I was in a public dungeon, I managed to get the boss achievement, but never once got loot in 8-10 tries. Regardless of whatever timer/other method is added, why can't you also ensure someone gets loot with the achievement (which is guaranteed to be one time only)? For many of us, that one time would be sufficient. I only tried repeatedly because I never got anything at all, and I eventually gave up.

kamohs212eb17_ESO · April 2014

I use boss farming to leveling my craft skills, so quantity for me is more preffered than quality. But i luv getting blue items as well.

crush83, what about people like me, who have only few hours per day for game. Both, leveling and farm. Started on early access and only today i got lvl30. I can't throw everything every 10 min and go to dungeon on other side of map for equipment. I'm not nolife nerd who can play 24/7.

Totaly agree with Dodece, it'll be better if admins go to game and start cracking skulls. Right now hundreds of cheaters and hackers use botting, teleportations, duplication. Openly. You can go to any public dungeon and you meet some bots there. You can wait 10 min and you'll see them teleporting in/out.

But all they doing is "Now you need to wait several minutes after looting a delve or overworld boss before you are eligible to receive loot from these types of bosses again".
I hope they making game better or at least fixing quests.

Bots?

Lets make looting delay.

Daverios · April 2014

Woogawoman wrote: »

All I know is that the last time I was in a public dungeon, I managed to get the boss achievement, but never once got loot in 8-10 tries. Regardless of whatever timer/other method is added, why can't you also ensure someone gets loot with the achievement (which is guaranteed to be one time only)? For many of us, that one time would be sufficient. I only tried repeatedly because I never got anything at all, and I eventually gave up.

Worse even. I went through 2 whole ones in reapers march and not a single peice of loot from any trash or boss. They did drop thick hide and only thick hide. Probably killed 200 trash and 10 bosses no loot.

Sakiri · April 2014

Police arent a crime deterrent where I live. Petty criminals get away with crap because we dont have jail space.

You know what does deter criminals? That hunk of metal on my belt. The one yhat goes "bang".

Maybe get someone with one of those banhammers to sit in delves and bot kick?

SirAndy · April 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

You know what does deter criminals? That hunk of metal on my belt. The one yhat goes "bang".

Sure ... Let me guess, that hunk of metal is also the reason why no one ever gets shot where you live, right?

Tetrasoli · April 2014

Ill-conceived fix for a systemic problem with public dungeon areas. This only penalizes legitimate players.