Change to the patch notes (Boss drops)

KerinKor

Kythia wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

This isn't the answer. Bots will still get loot once every several minutes. It's still worth them setting up camp and farming the boss.

We need Diminishing Returns. (I'm sick of preaching this, honestly)

10 minute cooldown window. If you kill the boss within that 10 minute window it gets refreshed. This is literally the most important part of why this will effectively nullify bots camping bosses. If they camp, they will never get loot again.

The more kills you get within your cooldown window, the less likely you are to get loot until eventually you get none. I'll let ZOS determine the logarithmic curve.

If you wait 10 minutes between kills, then your window expires, and you get full loot again.

Adjust the 10 minutes to be inline with the content.

Done. End of story. Why is this still not implemented?

Hello? Support? Someone just did half the work for you!

Not even remotely, his suggestion is so easily gamed by the botters it's not worth considering.

crush83

Cherryblossom wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

This isn't the answer. Bots will still get loot once every several minutes. It's still worth them setting up camp and farming the boss.

We need Diminishing Returns. (I'm sick of preaching this, honestly)

10 minute cooldown window. If you kill the boss within that 10 minute window it gets refreshed. This is literally the most important part of why this will effectively nullify bots camping bosses. If they camp, they will never get loot again.

The more kills you get within your cooldown window, the less likely you are to get loot until eventually you get none. I'll let ZOS determine the logarithmic curve.

If you wait 10 minutes between kills, then your window expires, and you get full loot again.

Adjust the 10 minutes to be inline with the content.

Done. End of story. Why is this still not implemented?

Sadly your wrong, in this case you would set your Bots to kill one boss, travel across land killing everything in their way to the next dungeon at which point their ten minutes is up, kill this boss, rinse repeat. Their bots they won't get bored...

In your analysis it only effects players...

Hi,

Except that the bosses don't spawn only once every 10 minutes. Except that bots can't simply travel instantly from one dungeon to the next. The whole point is to get the bots out of the dungeon giving legitimate players a chance to kill the boss.

Seriously, so many people lack critical thinking skills it's unbelievable.

crush83

KerinKor wrote: »

Not even remotely, his suggestion is so easily gamed by the botters it's not worth considering.

Oh yeah? Let's hear your work around. I can't wait to poke holes in it.

caryhammub17_ESO

If it is not about loot, but experience, or farming, once you get the achievement for that dungeon completion everything stops giving experience in that dungeon.

Also you cannot do damage to said boss for at least x amount of minutes. No experience, no damage, no reason to waste your time there.

SeñorCinco

crush83 wrote: »

Except that bots can't simply travel instantly from one dungeon to the next.

How are boss locations any different than a node location?

Still, they can have all 8 bots camped at a different boss and automate them to cycle through logins.

crush83

caryhammub17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not about loot, but experience, or farming, once you get the achievement for that dungeon completion everything stops giving experience in that dungeon.

Also you cannot do damage to said boss for at least x amount of minutes. No experience, no damage, no reason to waste your time there.

The amount of experience you get from farming dungeon bosses is almost non-existent. Bots are farming for loot. This isn't up for discussion.

crush83

SeñorCinco wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Except that bots can't simply travel instantly from one dungeon to the next.

How are boss locations any different than a node location?

Still, they can have all 8 bots camped at a different boss and automate them to cycle through logins.

Except that excessive and incessant login/logouts flag you for autoban. How hard do you think it is to detect that behavior?

There's also a cooldown period between switcing between characters. Don't forget about that. (yeah it's only like 10 seconds currently, that's still 10 seconds less they could be effectively farming elsewhere).

The login process also takes time for the server to load all your resources and place you into the world, that subtracts more time from your farming routine.

SeñorCinco

crush83 wrote: »

Except that excessive and incessant login/logouts flag you for autoban. How hard do you think it is to detect that behavior?

How do you differentiate a bot and someone that is micromanaging their inventory between every quest using alts.

I can't believe they autobahn on a red flag for logins. That sounds rather speculative.

crush83 wrote: »

The login process also takes time for the server to load all your resources and place you into the world, that subtracts more time from your farming routine.

Seems like a accepted delay considering a 10 minute cooldown.

The sure fire way to stop them for boss camping at least is to instance the boss fights to the character or group and limit that to a single encounter.

crush83

SeñorCinco wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Except that excessive and incessant login/logouts flag you for autoban. How hard do you think it is to detect that behavior?

How do you differentiate a bot and someone that is micromanaging their inventory between every quest using alts.

I can't believe they autobahn on a red flag for logins. That sounds rather speculative.

Because no one is micromanaging their alts at perfect intervals for 8+ hours straight.

They do ban when it's excessive because read above.

There was/is an exploit with containers where if you logout/login the container loot respawns (not sure if this has been fixed). They banned a heap of players who abused that bug by analyzing the logs. It was pretty clear who was simply managing alts, and who was trying to exploit the container bug.

It would be even more clear if bots were logging in/out at perfect intervals for extended periods of time.

crush83

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Seems like a accepted delay considering a 10 minute cooldown.

Maybe you didn't understand. They are allow to kill the same boss if they wait the full 10 minutes between kills. If they wait 10 minutes between kills, the boss will have spawned 3-4 times at least since the last time they killed it, giving other players (or bots) a chance to kill the boss.

If the bots try to offset each other, not only will each bot be less effective (as each bot is only killing once per 10 minutes) but there will also be less bots attacking the boss at the same time, which means more chance of them dying, and more chance that a legitimate player can gain loot rights.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

What I want to know is if I loot just a healing potion off of these bosses will the other kills not drop a single thing for me until the timer is up?

Nathanyl

Don't know if this was mentioned but how about making all boss loot no drop no sell?

Dev

the fact that people think they are going to harm the gold sellers by making these changes in mind boggling...

Hello people, they have more manpower (instances of bots) and more hours to use them. All these knee jerk reactions do is hurt the legitimate player from farming up the gold honestly. you can never hurt the gold sellers without hurting the legit player, and to be blunt I am sick of it.

Think about it: Legit player kills boss but the good items didn't drop, so they now have to waste 10minutes or whatever waiting. Gold seller just runs bot and watches tv... who is really impacted here?

they really need to get rid of this player base economy. it never works and it never will work. We should just buy & sell to NPC. There is no reason to ever expect a player based economy to work when we cant even get the real economy to work.

As for the comment someone likely will make about that 'being a console' idea, your right. Then again I can live with that since there really isn't any sense of enjoyment waiting 5 days or longer for random player to buy my items, and far less enjoyment when people undercut me...

I want to play these games to kill stuff, read the story lines, pvp a little and hang out with friends,... I would think these are the same ideas as many others would share... are there really players worried about getting fair market value on a stack of goat pie!?!?!?!

Eldrenath

Is it not possible to hire some actual in-game GMs who can hop from phase to phase? If they see a toon sitting there on the boss for 30+ minutes killing him over and over and over and over just ban the account. There are so many other obvious tells--the toon is named "Affjjhhyyterr" or some other random string of characters. Sit and watch, jot down names. Come back 30 minutes later, same toon still there? Doesn't respond to whispers? Ban the account right then and there.

It's common sense. We ALL know who the bots are. You know within 2 minutes who the bots are. Put a couple people in charge of smiting all of them with a banhammer.

SeñorCinco

crush83 wrote: »

They are allow to kill the same boss if they wait the full 10 minutes between kills. If they wait 10 minutes between kills, the boss will have spawned 3-4 times at least since the last time they killed it, giving other players (or bots) a chance to kill the boss.

I see. Well, lets hope this works.

crush83

SeñorCinco wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

They are allow to kill the same boss if they wait the full 10 minutes between kills. If they wait 10 minutes between kills, the boss will have spawned 3-4 times at least since the last time they killed it, giving other players (or bots) a chance to kill the boss.

I see. Well, lets hope this works.

Also, as I mentioned in my initial post, the 10 minutes isn't some magical number that must be used. It should be adjusted based on the content. Which means based on how often that particular boss spawns.

Maybe it's 10 minutes for 1 boss and 60 minutes for another. It all should be scaled appropriately. 10 minutes was just for example.

Also, the developers decided to go with a half-assed attempt (static timer) which is stupid, and will not prevent the bots from farming.

Carde

Bots will just sit there camping the boss, because time means nothing when you're not sitting at the keyboard. Their bags will get full either way.

But players like me that sit there for 3 or 4 kills on a boss (trying to get their unique) while passing through to get the achievement will not get loot on the first kill and then just walk off, never getting the item now.

Yay for anti-botting measures?

Kililin

Timers are the fastest, cheapest and also worst fix to the problem.
In fact now we have double the posts about bots'n'bosses than before.
But that was predictable...

crush83

Carde wrote: »

Bots will just sit there camping the boss, because time means nothing when you're not sitting at the keyboard. Their bags will get full either way.

But players like me that sit there for 3 or 4 kills on a boss (trying to get their unique) while passing through to get the achievement will not get loot on the first kill and then just walk off, never getting the item now.

Yay for anti-botting measures?

Which is exactly why diminishing returns would be a better system than what the developers implemented.

SeñorCinco

crush83 wrote: »

Also, as I mentioned in my initial post, the 10 minutes isn't some magical number that must be used. It should be adjusted based on the content. Which means based on how often that particular boss spawns.

Maybe it's 10 minutes for 1 boss and 60 minutes for another. It all should be scaled appropriately. 10 minutes was just for example.

Also, the developers decided to go with a half-assed attempt (static timer) which is stupid, and will not prevent the bots from farming.

I mentioned this in a previous edit, but what's wrong with instancing the player or group to the boss in their own cell?

It seems to me that would be the best option as it limits every character to one Boss fight and everyone gets the blue drop as well as the challenge of actually playing the game.

crush83

SeñorCinco wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Also, as I mentioned in my initial post, the 10 minutes isn't some magical number that must be used. It should be adjusted based on the content. Which means based on how often that particular boss spawns.

Maybe it's 10 minutes for 1 boss and 60 minutes for another. It all should be scaled appropriately. 10 minutes was just for example.

Also, the developers decided to go with a half-assed attempt (static timer) which is stupid, and will not prevent the bots from farming.

I mentioned this in a previous edit, but what's wrong with instancing the player or group to the boss in their own cell?

It seems to me that would be the best option as it limits every character to one Boss fight and everyone gets the blue drop as well as the challenge of actually playing the game.

There's nothing wrong with that. You'll just get people who cry about instanced content because for some reason, they think that means the game isn't open world. I guess, in a sense, they are right. But, as we are seeing with the bot situation, open world has consequences.

scorcher24_ESO

cubansyrusb16_ESO wrote: »

So if they add a 10min timer to the bosses.....

That would mean if im going back through zones to collect public dungeons i missed, i would have to kill one boss, go to the next dungeon and sit and wait till im eligible for loot from another one.

Not only does a loot timer on bosses affect the bot but it also effects people catching up on what they missed, making a task which should have took me say 20mins to clear 6 bosses + travel take a minimum of 60mins .

Cause lets be honest here these bosses either take 2 mins to run through cause everything is dead or you out level them so much it takes the same amount of time.

On another note not everyone farming these bosses are bots, i have seen many people farming them for blues for crafting or farming the for blues to twink there character before moving on with quest, these are also people who are effected .... yes bots are annoying and i wish there was a way to get rid of them, but the suggested timer effects others aswell as bots !!

Maybe add a system that asks the players a question if they haven't clicked a button or moved for 10mins ..... idk ... the timer is just not a good thing as it would effect players farming instanced non public dungeons for loot aswell.

I quote this for emphasis. Additionally, there should be a daily limit of 5 kills that grant loot. Enough for every player, but not for bots. Also, if they stay within the same dungeon the whole time they are logged on and within a certain timeframe, e.g. 2 hours, automatically flag them for review by a GM.

jorj82

last night, i ran into a boss somewhere in eastmarch that was being camped by bots. as usual, my crazy nighblade dps skills got me the kill. and here's the beautiful part; after killing the boss i was to retrieve a document from a nearby lockbox, and when i did, the bots and another boss spawn they were fighting simply dissapeared. i'm guessing that when i took the note, there was a trigger in the game (code) that instanced me out or something... maybe we could have similar triggers for the bosses at "camping sites" to prevent bots and farmers from ever being a problem?

jpsgamingb14_ESO

Same bots in a dungeon since yesterday. I don't think zenimax cares. After all these bots are paying accounts...

crush83

Yeah, I've seen the same bots (same names and appearance) in the same dungeon 3 days in a row now. I wrote their names down and I remember exactly what they look like. I've reported them every day I've seen them.

kevjon74_ESO

Saerydoth wrote: »

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

So you eliminate bosses as a viable farming spot. So where do you think the bots will go after that? Bots are gonna bot. At least with bosses they were in relatively few, predictable locations. Somehow I don't think that forcing the bots out into other areas all over the place isn't such a great idea.

Actually, I think it is. Because bot investigations take time (unless you want a bunch of innocent players caught up in ban waves). I would rather have the botters spread out, rather than concentrating in public dungeons rendering them unplayable.

I disagree. If I have to see them at all I'd rather see bots only when i enter public dungeons than potentially anywhere else in the world. I enter public dungeons only once, and have never had a problem getting a hit in to get credit for killing the boss. True that it's challenge-less, and an immersion-breaker. But the other 95%+ rest of my playing time is spent outside of public dungeons and is blissfully bot-free (so far through level 37).

I'd much rather have that than encountering roaming bands of bots around every corner in the main world, constantly reminding me of the depths of people's idiocy (if I want that, I just tune into zone chat ).

scorcher24_ESO

jpsgamingb14_ESO wrote: »

Same bots in a dungeon since yesterday. I don't think zenimax cares. After all these bots are paying accounts...

Sigh, that is what people in every MMO say about that topic :P.

Carde

jorj82 wrote: »

last night, i ran into a boss somewhere in eastmarch that was being camped by bots. as usual, my crazy nighblade dps skills got me the kill. and here's the beautiful part; after killing the boss i was to retrieve a document from a nearby lockbox, and when i did, the bots and another boss spawn they were fighting simply dissapeared. i'm guessing that when i took the note, there was a trigger in the game (code) that instanced me out or something... maybe we could have similar triggers for the bosses at "camping sites" to prevent bots and farmers from ever being a problem?

Quest phasing.

Inco

The 10 min timer (or whatever) on boss drops is crap. The botters are going to work around that just fine and actual players are going to be pissed off.

SOLUTION: Online GM 24x7 that does nothing but watch Zone Chat, Check Boss Botting and... and... INSTANT BAN them.

Baxter2064

Inco wrote: »

SOLUTION: Online GM 24x7 that does nothing but watch Zone Chat, Check Boss Botting and... and... INSTANT BAN them.

Agreed. I just went into Mephala's Nest to check things out, and there's 15 bots standing around the boss spawn point.