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Proc sets need to be adjusted before the end of the PTS cycle.

  • techyeshic
    techyeshic
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    I see it growing in CP pvp now. I can't imagine playing no CP.
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Proc sets are like VSO popcorn traveling to crag in cp pvp everyone's got them now
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Good idea proposed here, cap the total DOT to x% of the target's health. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6989718/#Comment_6989718


  • Morwaenna
    Morwaenna
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    Battlegrounds are an absolute cancerous mess and completely unenjoyable experience. I can’t believe they aren’t nerfing these easy carry on’s into the dirt this cycle.

    :(
  • SOLDIER_1stClass
    SOLDIER_1stClass
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    My issue with proc sets is there is no down side. No having to choose between one crucial point or the other.

    Everyone cried about NMA, but it had the down side of a 5 percent penalty to cost.

    With how the game currently works. Who cares if a set gives 400 wd with a penalty.

    When I can get 6k damage from a proc 5 piece and 258wd total from 3 and 4 piece bonus on same set; that's one set and no down sides.


    I don't want to even go into heavy armor, because it has been a problem forever with no real correction.

  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    AyaDark wrote: »
    Proc sets are not a problem.
    2 proc sets just can be negated by 1 defensive set. Or purged.

    If it is 4 on 1 fight, yes it kills, but why do you think that you must kill 4 people solo ?

    1 on 1 player in 2 attack proc sets is always weeker.

    And proc sets were always used before patch to, so what is the problem?

    I kill people with proc sets more easely.

    But they are playable now. They just were useless before. Now they are playable, but it is not win button, 1 on 1 i always kill them.
    Xologamer wrote: »
    sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
    sorcs could just shild to infinity
    templar has purge and redicoulus heal
    warden has purge too...
    u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


    and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

    Nobody wants to hear about how to counter proc sets. They would rather just come here and complain.

    People can't be bothered to slot purges or shields or wear defensive sets, because then how would they be able to kill anybody?

    What is the winning strategy? Run around with all these DOTs ticking away on you so you can die and hopefully the next enemy you encounter won't be one of the majority stacking all these procs ZOS has made available for anybody to use?

    I get it that some folks don't like losing. But the reality of the matter is that every single set, skill, and strategy is available for everybody to play.... so why not use the best combination available and go beat everybody else?

    I see a lot of complaints, but few solutions being offered that don't include some sort of intervention from ZOS.

    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    I get it that some folks don't like losing. But the reality of the matter is that every single set, skill, and strategy is available for everybody to play.... so why not use the best combination available and go beat everybody else?

    I see a lot of complaints, but few solutions being offered that don't include some sort of intervention from ZOS.

    That's what the PTS board is for...
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    I can't believe anyone is still defending proc sets...

    The only defence I have heard this entire patch is slot a purge... And there is no response when this logic is shown to be flawed.

    Yet players like @FrankonPC have continuously proven that they are totally unbalanced by dominating using only one skill. No one has proven that they can make something of equal power with stat based sets.

    When I have personally challenged someone to make a build with as much offensive and defensive power as my 2 button build no one has raised to the challenge. Spoiler... It's impossible...

    If you feel you can please be my guest, here is a link to my 2 button build.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300
    It applies 80-100k dots in 2 GCDs, 40k health and 28k resists on a Stamcro 👍

    Until someone proves it otherwise, proc sets being totally overpowered is currently a fact!
    As people have proven so...
  • MentalxHammer
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    [/quote]

    I get it that some folks don't like losing. But the reality of the matter is that every single set, skill, and strategy is available for everybody to play.... so why not use the best combination available and go beat everybody else?

    [/quote]

    Your suggestion is that everyone puts on the cheese, and that's the counter to the cheese meta?? That's a terrible solution. ESO has hundreds of sets and an almost limitless combination of builds, and your solution is that we all wear the same stuff? Seems like a fast way to kill the game.

    I've been playing MMO's for 20 years, ESO for 5. I've been a successful 1vx player using traditional stat builds the whole time. I'm always willing to adapt, but not if that means slap on 3x proc sets like everyone else. I've played that playstyle, and it's boring as hell. I'd rather invest my time in games where the dev's care to listen.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Your suggestion is that everyone puts on the cheese, and that's the counter to the cheese meta?? That's a terrible solution. ESO has hundreds of sets and an almost limitless combination of builds, and your solution is that we all wear the same stuff? Seems like a fast way to kill the game.

    The other solution is to play with a 'righteous' setup and die because you're overmatched, or to not log in at all.


    If ZOS does nothing, those are your two choices. Or you can run the two button build and keep playing. It's that simple.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • MentalxHammer
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    Your suggestion is that everyone puts on the cheese, and that's the counter to the cheese meta?? That's a terrible solution. ESO has hundreds of sets and an almost limitless combination of builds, and your solution is that we all wear the same stuff? Seems like a fast way to kill the game.

    The other solution is to play with a 'righteous' setup and die because you're overmatched, or to not log in at all.


    If ZOS does nothing, those are your two choices. Or you can run the two button build and keep playing. It's that simple.

    There are tons of game studios that put a lot of effort into taking player feedback, it's not an ideal option, but the best option is to just play another game.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    Your suggestion is that everyone puts on the cheese, and that's the counter to the cheese meta?? That's a terrible solution. ESO has hundreds of sets and an almost limitless combination of builds, and your solution is that we all wear the same stuff? Seems like a fast way to kill the game.

    The other solution is to play with a 'righteous' setup and die because you're overmatched, or to not log in at all.


    If ZOS does nothing, those are your two choices. Or you can run the two button build and keep playing. It's that simple.

    There are tons of game studios that put a lot of effort into taking player feedback, it's not an ideal option, but the best option is to just play another game.

    I agree that I've never experienced another game that ignores player feedback as much as this one does. Their "vision" seems to be of the tunnel variety. However, they know as well as we do that there really isn't a better mmorpg available at this time... and they have us over the proverbial barrel.

    I would also prefer a balanced game as far as PvP goes. There should be multiple choices that give players different ways of being successful. But there's too much money out there to be made selling players the means to acquire currently overpowered gear... like Malacath's, Crimson Twilight, Unleashed Terror, and so forth. Don't look for nerfs in this area any time soon.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Bashev
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    As I said in another topic, ZoS just should add a new mythical item that protects you from all proc damage. Then the meta will balance itself. When many players use malacath with procs then people will either go same route or they will slot this new mythic and counter them.
    Because I can!
  • olsborg
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    BohnT2 wrote: »

    Procs make the game unfun to play when there's no lag and they make the game even worse when it's laggy, all they do is ruin the fun for everyone not using them.

    This. Whenever I get hit with 3x proccsets from one dude or 5x proccsets from 2 dudes, whatever.. I just feel like they dont even have to try to get better because ZOS keeps making the game easier for them, while I try to get better with everything I do with my builds etc without using proccsets and free carry sets. I like the challenge of pvp, but it seems ZOS doesnt want it to be very challenging.


    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Kittytravel
    Kittytravel
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    new players will be driven away from pvp

    Ah yeah cause their new players being interested in PvP with lag issues wasn't at all doing that already.

    The only issue with proc sets is just further reducing their damage done in PvP. Don't nerf the sets just change the battle spirit to reduce damage procs can do so that PvE can retain its skill-crutch since that's the point anyhow.
  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    new players will be driven away from pvp

    Ah yeah cause their new players being interested in PvP with lag issues wasn't at all doing that already.

    The only issue with proc sets is just further reducing their damage done in PvP. Don't nerf the sets just change the battle spirit to reduce damage procs can do so that PvE can retain its skill-crutch since that's the point anyhow.

    Addition to Battle Spirit: Reduces set based Damage Done by 60% That could lessen the stress of proc sets while stat based ones can still have the equal opportunity to be meaningful.

    "When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of men." ~Manly P. Hall
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Bashev wrote: »
    As I said in another topic, ZoS just should add a new mythical item that protects you from all proc damage. Then the meta will balance itself. When many players use malacath with procs then people will either go same route or they will slot this new mythic and counter them.

    This is statistical balance on the macro-level but in specific encounters it's feast or famine. Either you hard counter a proc user or you waste a mythic.
  • sharquez
    sharquez
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    3 more wonderful months of ZOS sticking to their guns on how they want their game to work. and I'm proud of 'em. No sarcasm. I really am happy that I don't have to worry about retooling all my characters beyond acquiring the fun new tools we are about to get.
    At least 3 of each class. PVPing Since IC.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Bashev wrote: »
    As I said in another topic, ZoS just should add a new mythical item that protects you from all proc damage. Then the meta will balance itself. When many players use malacath with procs then people will either go same route or they will slot this new mythic and counter them.

    This is statistical balance on the macro-level but in specific encounters it's feast or famine. Either you hard counter a proc user or you waste a mythic.

    But in this way we will have diversity at least. Otherwise everything will be the same.
    Because I can!
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    sharquez wrote: »
    3 more wonderful months of ZOS sticking to their guns on how they want their game to work. and I'm proud of 'em. No sarcasm. I really am happy that I don't have to worry about retooling all my characters beyond acquiring the fun new tools we are about to get.

    Yeah, wait until people have to deal with AOE chains block bombers, or trying to shed a 40k bleed.


    2nsBeBj.gif
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • FrankonPC
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    I can't believe anyone is still defending proc sets...

    The only defence I have heard this entire patch is slot a purge... And there is no response when this logic is shown to be flawed.

    Yet players like @FrankonPC have continuously proven that they are totally unbalanced by dominating using only one skill. No one has proven that they can make something of equal power with stat based sets.

    When I have personally challenged someone to make a build with as much offensive and defensive power as my 2 button build no one has raised to the challenge. Spoiler... It's impossible...

    If you feel you can please be my guest, here is a link to my 2 button build.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300
    It applies 80-100k dots in 2 GCDs, 40k health and 28k resists on a Stamcro 👍

    Until someone proves it otherwise, proc sets being totally overpowered is currently a fact!
    As people have proven so...

    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    You will not win the battle of resource attrition attempting to slot purge, it just isn't a good skill currently.

    Then there's the other fact that there's other great proc sets out there like red mountain, doylemish, velidreth, selene, morkuldin, unfathomable darkness etc that all cannot be purged.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    FrankonPC wrote: »
    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    That's why I've been playing my necro almost exclusively in PvP. I can remove all that with a single cast for under 2k health, on a 45k health character.

    And still no one is saying what to do if you choose not to slot a purge. Stand there and die? Stop playing? Or run the two button build?

    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Muzza45
    Muzza45
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    As I reside in Western Australia, my lag in Cyro is astronomical. Even though my latency counter says 390, I've often actually counted six seconds from when I press a button 'till the actual action occurs. My erstwhile opponent has run around me three times and had a cigarette before killing me. My only option at times is to build tanky and add a proc set just to hopefully let me survive the worst of the lag spikes.

    Maybe only let those in Oceania have access to proc sets? ;)
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    FrankonPC wrote: »
    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    That's why I've been playing my necro almost exclusively in PvP. I can remove all that with a single cast for under 2k health, on a 45k health character.

    And still no one is saying what to do if you choose not to slot a purge. Stand there and die? Stop playing? Or run the two button build?

    Can you explain what's motivating this question?

    Like on my end it has meant that I mostly grind undaunted keys and then I leave to play something else. What does that prove in your mind?
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    FrankonPC wrote: »
    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    That's why I've been playing my necro almost exclusively in PvP. I can remove all that with a single cast for under 2k health, on a 45k health character.

    And still no one is saying what to do if you choose not to slot a purge. Stand there and die? Stop playing? Or run the two button build?

    Can you explain what's motivating this question?

    Well, I'm looking for answers.

    People are saying proc sets are over powered. And I'm not arguing that point. I want to know how to counter them.

    The only thing that works for me is cleansing the procs, and stacking my own procs until the other proc stackers die. But the majority are saying that cleanses are too expensive. So I want to know how all these anti-cleansers beat the proc stacking meta. Clearly praying that ZOS nerfs it to Oblivion is not the answer, as they have only nerfed one older set that only really works well in a niche (Poison Injection) setting. With even more overpowered stuff set to be released this week, it's obvious that ZOS likes the current meta, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

    So I want to hear how the elite players are fighting back against the proc set meta. How's that Hundings / Julianos strategy working for you? Can't be bothered to cleanse the dots, so let's hear what you're doing to win. I'm genuinely curious, and willing to learn.

    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    FrankonPC wrote: »
    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    That's why I've been playing my necro almost exclusively in PvP. I can remove all that with a single cast for under 2k health, on a 45k health character.

    And still no one is saying what to do if you choose not to slot a purge. Stand there and die? Stop playing? Or run the two button build?

    Can you explain what's motivating this question?

    Well, I'm looking for answers.

    People are saying proc sets are over powered. And I'm not arguing that point. I want to know how to counter them.

    The only thing that works for me is cleansing the procs, and stacking my own procs until the other proc stackers die. But the majority are saying that cleanses are too expensive. So I want to know how all these anti-cleansers beat the proc stacking meta. Clearly praying that ZOS nerfs it to Oblivion is not the answer, as they have only nerfed one older set that only really works well in a niche (Poison Injection) setting. With even more overpowered stuff set to be released this week, it's obvious that ZOS likes the current meta, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

    So I want to hear how the elite players are fighting back against the proc set meta. How's that Hundings / Julianos strategy working for you? Can't be bothered to cleanse the dots, so let's hear what you're doing to win. I'm genuinely curious, and willing to learn.

    You pack on survival and proc them back. That's it. You dont purge it unless you decide to play a class that purges. Even if you do, they get reapplied. You cant pretend theres a solution when there isnt. The reality is the meta is not enjoyable. You can play through it and suffer it or not.
  • techyeshic
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    My experience purging it what limited time I ran my necro ( not a fan of the class) was purge, its reapplied, purge, reapplied, repeat until more proc show up for 1 side or the other. Its so mindless that quantity is much greater than quality.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    FrankonPC wrote: »
    best part about the "just slot purge" crowd is it ignores the fact that purge isn't used for a huge reason, cost. It's tough for a mag spec to slot efficient purge due its cost, let alone a stamina class.

    hypothetical situation, i hit PI on you with smite, double dot poisons, and sheer venom. I also have siphoner. You have to hit purge twice to remove everything at a cost of 5400 mag PER cast. You spend 10,800 mag removing my proc conditions...it then saves you for all of six seconds tops when I reapply PI and it procs sheer venom again. Now you have zero mag as a stam toon and you've used 10k mag. As a stam class I've used 5400 stam to cast PI twice and you can't use purge anymore until you pop a pot or get some more resources back.

    That's why I've been playing my necro almost exclusively in PvP. I can remove all that with a single cast for under 2k health, on a 45k health character.

    And still no one is saying what to do if you choose not to slot a purge. Stand there and die? Stop playing? Or run the two button build?

    Can you explain what's motivating this question?

    Well, I'm looking for answers.

    People are saying proc sets are over powered. And I'm not arguing that point. I want to know how to counter them.

    The only thing that works for me is cleansing the procs, and stacking my own procs until the other proc stackers die. But the majority are saying that cleanses are too expensive. So I want to know how all these anti-cleansers beat the proc stacking meta. Clearly praying that ZOS nerfs it to Oblivion is not the answer, as they have only nerfed one older set that only really works well in a niche (Poison Injection) setting. With even more overpowered stuff set to be released this week, it's obvious that ZOS likes the current meta, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

    So I want to hear how the elite players are fighting back against the proc set meta. How's that Hundings / Julianos strategy working for you? Can't be bothered to cleanse the dots, so let's hear what you're doing to win. I'm genuinely curious, and willing to learn.

    You pack on survival and proc them back. That's it. You dont purge it unless you decide to play a class that purges. Even if you do, they get reapplied. You cant pretend theres a solution when there isnt. The reality is the meta is not enjoyable. You can play through it and suffer it or not.

    Thank you, finally someone besides myself admitting that the only way to fight fire is with fire. And you are certainly an elite player.

    Clearly ZOS is trying to raise the floor, to make lower tier players slightly more competitive. And I can understand the high APM folks' frustration. But realistically, I'm afraid the proc meta won't be going away any time soon. It's a fair thing to ask for, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking they place much value in this particular type of feedback.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • FrankonPC
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    Jaraal wrote: »

    Well, I'm looking for answers.

    People are saying proc sets are over powered. And I'm not arguing that point. I want to know how to counter them.

    The only thing that works for me is cleansing the procs, and stacking my own procs until the other proc stackers die. But the majority are saying that cleanses are too expensive. So I want to know how all these anti-cleansers beat the proc stacking meta. Clearly praying that ZOS nerfs it to Oblivion is not the answer, as they have only nerfed one older set that only really works well in a niche (Poison Injection) setting. With even more overpowered stuff set to be released this week, it's obvious that ZOS likes the current meta, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

    So I want to hear how the elite players are fighting back against the proc set meta. How's that Hundings / Julianos strategy working for you? Can't be bothered to cleanse the dots, so let's hear what you're doing to win. I'm genuinely curious, and willing to learn.

    You run the strongest stuff possible like you always do. Stack procs, stack high health and go brrrrr. I really don't understand why you're asking this though because you always should be wearing the strongest stuff possible. Some classes are pretty immune to this meta, but some aren't and struggle.

    The reason it's being discussed(imo) is they go out and reduce sets like fury by 120 weapon damage and new moon acolyte by 80 weapon dmg. Now, there's nothing wrong with balancing to bring stuff in line with other things. In fact, it's awesome when there is more gear available out there and people aren't shoehorned into a specific meta. However, if they're gonna make these minor adjustments and then ignore the elephant in the room that is proc sets, it throws any attempt for balance out the window.

    Proc sets also only raise the floor if their opponents aren't running procs. Better players know how to survive better and once you start wearing the same gear you go back to wrecking people. My KD using 1 button on my videos with proc sets should be indicative of this.


    So the question is, what type of meta do the players want? They hated the high health dots in scalebreaker and zenimax reverted them to pre elsweyr levels of damage. They hated the previous proc meta and everything was nerfed into obscurity for years because of it. Now they've introduced a bunch of procs that do really high dot dmg, combining arguably the two worst metas this game has ever had. The sad part is though that instead of bringing them in line and making an adjustment to where they're effective, but not clearly the best...they will probably get nerfed into obscurity again for another few years(when they do get adjusted).

    In an ideal situation they could do one of many adjustments to proc sets that would bring them in line with stat based builds. This would open build diversity for classes and make the game a lot more fun. People that wear procs get to enjoy them, they're still strong...but if people don't want to wear them they don't have to. Then both sides are happy, people get to make their own builds and play exactly how they want. Balance is never perfect, but it can be a heck of a lot better than where it is right now.

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