Proc sets need to be adjusted before the end of the PTS cycle.

Strider__Roshin

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

So they nerfed the one set which made overnerfed Poison Injection actually worth using while leaving the other procs alone and buffing the new destro staff proc. Can't wait for the "just line of sight/run out of range" memes for this dumb destro staff.

Yeah not planning on logging back in any time soon lol.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Are our prayers being answered? Hopefully they bring the rest of these procs in line. Specifically plague slinger, venomous smite, and unleashed terror.

Waffennacht

If anyone has been using plague slinger they know its not OP.

Cannot control target, can be walked away from/dodged, and rarely all hit the same player if at all

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Waffennacht wrote: »

If anyone has been using plague slinger they know its not OP.

Cannot control target, can be walked away from/dodged, and rarely all hit the same player if at all

Meh I mean it more for dualing and small scale fights cause as a melee I cant get close. So I guess I'm just salty about it, I'll admit it.

Urzigurumash

Waffennacht wrote: »

If anyone has been using plague slinger they know its not OP.

Cannot control target, can be walked away from/dodged, and rarely all hit the same player if at all

It's next to useless in Cyro or IC since it targets NPCs, but it is pretty good in BGs on maps which promote clustering in tight spots. This is also the first patch since the set was released where it's truly competitive in BGs, in my opinion.

I would expect most players have the general desire to keep the numerous proc sets relevant in some capacity.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

Urzigurumash

Ok I'll revise my statement, Plagueslinger is next to useless about 50% of the time in Cyro. Being clustered on those Bruma flags with no NPCs around is one of the rare times it will outperform other sets. Guards around, it's useless, open field, it's useless. That's my experience anyhow, I've used the set here and there since 2018.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Ok I'll revise my statement, Plagueslinger is next to useless about 50% of the time in Cyro. Being clustered on those Bruma flags with no NPCs around is one of the rare times it will outperform other sets. Guards around, it's useless, open field, it's useless. That's my experience anyhow, I've used the set here and there since 2018.

I'd say in BG's it can be good too(didn't realize you were the same poster who mentioned that). Especially once groups come back.

Urzigurumash

Yeah if you see my above comment, it's incredible in BG maps with tight spots, like the Colosseum one with the rooms off to the side. The open lava dome one, etc., not so much.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Yeah if you see my above comment, it's incredible in BG maps with tight spots, like the Colosseum one with the rooms off to the side. The open lava dome one, etc., not so much.

Regardless it hits way too hard. I don't think viability should be a factor in this case. It hit's harder than a ult with a 3 second downtime, and it gets proc'ed for free.

Urzigurumash

Point taken. Here's the simple challenge to this all, in my view:

- keep proc sets relevant and not curiosities that nobody bothers to farm

- keep stat sets superlative for those that play the class well, to encourage learning combos, timing, sustain, etc

Just nerfing the tooltips on proc sets, or buffing stat sets, might not be able to accomplish both of those very easily

wheem_ESO

katorga wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

d3adpain wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Proc sets are not a problem.
2 proc sets just can be negated by 1 defensive set. Or purged.

If it is 4 on 1 fight, yes it kills, but why do you think that you must kill 4 people solo ?

1 on 1 player in 2 attack proc sets is always weeker.

And proc sets were always used before patch to, so what is the problem?

I kill people with proc sets more easely.

But they are playable now. They just were useless before. Now they are playable, but it is not win button, 1 on 1 i always kill them.

yeah yeah its balanced lol, when gear does more dmg then abilities and they make its easly proc so boomers can kill people by just smashing the keyboard without thought or need to learn the game, such a joke 1.3k bb
great balance and thanks you so much for listening to the community zos
can't wait for new world to come out ,this game went from being good competitive mmorpg and became so bad and boring
this proc meta, block changes that made the game clunky , ultimate cast time they killed pvp already so many people left
and the people who still play just don't have thing else to play for the moment

Icey Conjurer hit 10x for 753 per second
Sheer Venom hit 5x for 1,101 per second
Unleashed Terror hit 10x for 810 per second
Twin Blade hit 6x for 796 per second
Blast Bones hit 1x for 1337

In total, at the moment of death, what is shown is a total of 4,797 damage.

This doesn't appear to be a great example of what you are attempting to show.

I think the point is there are now skills on his death recap. Ultimately armor killed him...

Even the blastbones is evidence of someone using proc sets, judging by its low tooltip.

Jeez how do you even get BB to hit for 1337? In eso builder, all points in health, no cp, crafted CP160 generic heavy armor, only the gravelord skill line chosen, and 2H with no enchants gets me over that, even assuming 75% mitigation on the target. lol

The damage being that low indicates that it was probably blocked. Which doesn't protect you from the Major Defile, or all the stacked up procs. And don't forget the other DOTs that simply didn't have room on his recap.

It's really silly that so few GCDs can stack up so many strong DOTs, including axe procs and double DOT poisons, on top of the ubiquitous proc sets.

Xologamer

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

Xologamer

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

Holy crap everyone @Xologamer has figured it out! Lets cease these pointless discussion, it was this easy all along!

You're examples are good in a vacuum. It's never that simple.

"i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them..."

Dots, that after 2 or 3 GCDs are putting more pressure on you than anything a stat based build could dream of. Also not every class has a purge, and if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

wheem_ESO

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

Holy crap everyone @Xologamer has figured it out! Lets cease these pointless discussion, it was this easy all along!

You're examples are good in a vacuum. It's never that simple.

"i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them..."

Dots, that after 2 or 3 GCDs are putting more pressure on you than anything a stat based build could dream of. Also not every class has a purge, and if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

Plus, given how quickly, cheaply, and easily all these various proc-DOTs apply, where am I supposed to get the global cooldowns necessary to actually fight back? Or even heal myself from the DOT damage + Necromancer class cleanse health cost?

I mean cool, I cleansed off the Sheer Venom proc, and maybe the Poisoned status effect and/or actual Poison-DOT procs. Then the Poison Injection that didn't get removed because there were so many DOTs ticks again and voila - another Sheer Venom proc + Poisoned status effect trigger. Only now, that same player also applied Unleashed Terror + Maelstrom 2h proc on another singular global cooldown, so now I have more DOTs on me than I did before I cleansed the first time.

Xologamer

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

Holy crap everyone @Xologamer has figured it out! Lets cease these pointless discussion, it was this easy all along!

You're examples are good in a vacuum. It's never that simple.

"i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them..."

Dots, that after 2 or 3 GCDs are putting more pressure on you than anything a stat based build could dream of. Also not every class has a purge, and if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

thats a stupid statment its like i would say nerf direct dmg cause than everyone needs to use heals ....
if u die cause of any reason e.g. dots than use something to prevent it u cant just use 1build for many years u need to adapt to mets zerg noobs if all use templar jabs than u should maybe think about using major evasion.... if everyone uses dots maybe think about using a cleanse (and everyone can use the pvp one and there is no reason not to)

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

Holy crap everyone @Xologamer has figured it out! Lets cease these pointless discussion, it was this easy all along!

You're examples are good in a vacuum. It's never that simple.

"i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them..."

Dots, that after 2 or 3 GCDs are putting more pressure on you than anything a stat based build could dream of. Also not every class has a purge, and if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

thats a stupid statment its like i would say nerf direct dmg cause than everyone needs to use heals ....
if u die cause of any reason e.g. dots than use something to prevent it u cant just use 1build for many years u need to adapt to mets zerg noobs if all use templar jabs than u should maybe think about using major evasion.... if everyone uses dots maybe think about using a cleanse (and everyone can use the pvp one and there is no reason not to)

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

First off, using purge as an example isnt stupid. If you're telling a stam character to slot purge, that's making us go out of our way to counter something. Especially because purge is costly and I'm wasting a whole skill slot just to counter a particular playstyle. DOTs have always been in the game and it's never been mandatory to run purge.

You'll always need to heal no matter the source of damage, so your example with healing and direct damage isnt a good one.

The fact that you think there's "no reason not to use purge," just proves to me that we can't have a serious discussion.

Nevermind the fact that you only need about 2 GCDs to reapply upwards to 4 different dots, sometimes even 5 if you have a monster set too. In case you didnt know, 2 GCDs is only 2 seconds so this idea that it takes 5-10 seconds to reapply your procs/dots is just flat out wrong.

This is all not even accounting for multiple people hitting you with multiple attacks, procing multiple sets. It snowballs into one giant mess.

Also point me in the direction of this "x2 a purge all debuffs." As far as I can tell, the purge that is available to everyone only cleanses you of 3 negative effects. That doesnt guarantee that the dots are being cleansed, since there are a lot of "negative effects" in the game. Unless you mean use purge twice in a row? If that's what you mean, you've made your argument even worse for reasons I shouldn't even have to explain.

relentless_turnip

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

Nightblades have the most to gain from them and the least to lose. You can proc all three from stealth at range and if anyone procs on you you can just cloak.

relentless_turnip

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

Holy crap everyone @Xologamer has figured it out! Lets cease these pointless discussion, it was this easy all along!

You're examples are good in a vacuum. It's never that simple.

"i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them..."

Dots, that after 2 or 3 GCDs are putting more pressure on you than anything a stat based build could dream of. Also not every class has a purge, and if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

if you're implying everyone should run purge, it reinforces the idea that Proc sets are overcentralizing.

thats a stupid statment its like i would say nerf direct dmg cause than everyone needs to use heals ....
if u die cause of any reason e.g. dots than use something to prevent it u cant just use 1build for many years u need to adapt to mets zerg noobs if all use templar jabs than u should maybe think about using major evasion.... if everyone uses dots maybe think about using a cleanse (and everyone can use the pvp one and there is no reason not to)

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

2 times purge for most classes is close to 10k magicka, so now I can't rebuff... You are making arguments against proc sets without even realising it. Anyone can explain how to counter single attacks or procs. When you have 3 proc sets active on you, you are on your backbar. Yes everyone could slot every defensive counter available, but at what point do you get to move to your front bar and PvP?

As a nightblade your opinion is totally biased as you have everything to gain from this meta. Single proc sets are fine, it is the brain dead stacking of them that is the problem. They still all proc from a single attack.

MentalxHammer

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

We are all truly proud of you for overcoming the meta that is plaguing thousands of other players. Considering there are over 140 posts on this thread, with over 95% of them in agreeance that proc sets are unhealthy for pvp, it is clear that your case is an outlier.

Do you know what you do in science if you have a clear outlier in your data? You disregard the outlier in your calculation, the data point is ignored.

wheem_ESO

Xologamer wrote: »

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

This is objectively false. I mentioned why in my previous post, but I'll expand on things a bit.

Lets take my earlier example of Sheer Venom + Unleashed Terror + Maelstrom 2h (and the Malacath Ring, of course). This setup will indeed mean that you're only using a 1 piece monster set, but it seems that a ton of people find that trade off to be totally worth it.

First, the guaranteed DOTs:
Global Cooldown 1: Poison Injection (DOT-1) + Sheer Venom proc (DOT-2).
Bar Swap
Global Cooldown 2: Stampede (DOT-3 as ground-based AOE) + Maelstrom 2h proc (DOT-4) + Unleased Terror proc (DOT-5)

Secondly, the potential DOTs which may also be applied during the aforementioned 2 GCDs, but aren't 100% guaranteed:
Double DOT poisons (DOT-6 and DOT-7), Poisoned status effect (DOT-8), Heavy Weapons bleed proc if Maelstrom 2h is an axe (DOT-9).

That's 5-9 DOTs in two GCDs, which means 2 seconds and not 5-10. A best case scenario for the defender is that none of the "potential" DOTs trigger, which still means 5 DOTs in 2 seconds. And if you're relying on the Purge ability to remove those DOTs, that's 2 GCDs spent for the defender as well - at a drastically higher resource cost than that spent by the attacker, even if using the Efficient Purge morph. But wait, there's more!

Sheer Venom will automatically reapply itself if Poison Injection ticks, and the ground AOE DOT from Stampede is able to automatically reapply the Maelstrom 2h proc. So if the server thinks that your little toe is still touching the ground AOE when your first Purge is cast, it has the potential to be 100% wasted - even without any extra input from the attacker.

It's interesting that these Stamina-based procs can automatically reapply themselves in this manner, but Oblivion's Foe can't. Oftentimes, it really does feel like ZOS goes out of their way to make sure that Magicka-usable (not even Magicka-specific) sets have extra limitations that their Stamina-based counterparts don't. Even with the 6.2.3 nerf to Sheer Venom, they didn't restrict it from proc'ing multiple times from a single Poison Injection.

techyeshic

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It does hit pretty hard. Especially if you combo it like that guy did. Oh and the nice sheer venom proc too.

if u have 5k resis sure it does it hard

im playing stam blade the squishiest class possible and i have no problems with proc sets

just dont mimimi thanks

My Mag D has 27k+ so idk what to tell you.

I'm a stamblade main so I know it's easy to just cloak and mitigate the damage. Cloaking to mitigate the damage is a luxury only Nightblade has on demand. You didn't make too good of a case for yourself there.

Not to mention the countless other screenshots with ridiculous kill feeds.

sure so if u dont accept nb as example than i can go on: my mag dk kills 80% of all enemys i fight in the first 20sec and i have 40k resis = i dont even get dmg .... next example my mag nekro its average in tankyness but i had never a problem with dots cause nekro has a purge ....
sorcs could just shild to infinity
templar has purge and redicoulus heal
warden has purge too...
u see every class can do something about it its not like its deadric unpurgable dmg so its just a case of how good u can adapt to diffrent scenarios


and what rediculous killfeeds i only see there a few dots which was running 10sec + if u cant dodge it than maybe purge them...

So sorce spam sheilds, they'res still taking damaage. Thats great for stamsorc...

I so like the tradeoff of a stack of 3 or 4 DOTs applied free of resources to purge off as a templar for 4500 magicka which is a huge discrepancy even if you are a magplar, nevermind the hit that is on a stamplar.

And it's super effective for a Warden to sit there and hit netch 3 or 4 times even if free. Maybe they will eventually be able to do something when it all is finally gone? Or just sit there hitting netch to keep the DOTs off them?

The difference NB has is, they suppress it and keep from being re-applied until they initiate. The only other class that has a realistic counter is necro because it removes 4 and is cheap to go along with their resistance to DOTs on top of other godly resists.

Vetixio

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

This is objectively false. I mentioned why in my previous post, but I'll expand on things a bit.

Lets take my earlier example of Sheer Venom + Unleashed Terror + Maelstrom 2h (and the Malacath Ring, of course). This setup will indeed mean that you're only using a 1 piece monster set, but it seems that a ton of people find that trade off to be totally worth it.

First, the guaranteed DOTs:
Global Cooldown 1: Poison Injection (DOT-1) + Sheer Venom proc (DOT-2).
Bar Swap
Global Cooldown 2: Stampede (DOT-3 as ground-based AOE) + Maelstrom 2h proc (DOT-4) + Unleased Terror proc (DOT-5)

Secondly, the potential DOTs which may also be applied during the aforementioned 2 GCDs, but aren't 100% guaranteed:
Double DOT poisons (DOT-6 and DOT-7), Poisoned status effect (DOT-8), Heavy Weapons bleed proc if Maelstrom 2h is an axe (DOT-9).

That's 5-9 DOTs in two GCDs, which means 2 seconds and not 5-10. A best case scenario for the defender is that none of the "potential" DOTs trigger, which still means 5 DOTs in 2 seconds. And if you're relying on the Purge ability to remove those DOTs, that's 2 GCDs spent for the defender as well - at a drastically higher resource cost than that spent by the attacker, even if using the Efficient Purge morph. But wait, there's more!

Sheer Venom will automatically reapply itself if Poison Injection ticks, and the ground AOE DOT from Stampede is able to automatically reapply the Maelstrom 2h proc. So if the server thinks that your little toe is still touching the ground AOE when your first Purge is cast, it has the potential to be 100% wasted - even without any extra input from the attacker.

It's interesting that these Stamina-based procs can automatically reapply themselves in this manner, but Oblivion's Foe can't. Oftentimes, it really does feel like ZOS goes out of their way to make sure that Magicka-usable (not even Magicka-specific) sets have extra limitations that their Stamina-based counterparts don't. Even with the 6.2.3 nerf to Sheer Venom, they didn't restrict it from proc'ing multiple times from a single Poison Injection.

Like I said before they should remove all the proc sets and rework them to provide unique buffs because any Magicka players who aren't Magblades with Caluurions aren't having fun in the Elder Stamina Procs Online atm. Stamina players particularly Stamblades are loving this meta, also with all the tests going on in Cyrodiil half the time you can't fight back or heal properly without it costing half your resources or being on a cooldown, whereas cloak is not on a cooldown and negates all DoT damage from skills and procs and a NB can hide and reset the fight to snipe dysnc/wait for their procs to come off cooldown and kill people again, so FUN.

Nordic__Knights

BEING EVERY 5 STAR PVP PLAYER AND 810 IN THE GAME HAS THESE [snip] ON PVP IS GETTING TO BE UNFUN YES FUNNY HOW EVERYONE CALLS THESE SETS NO SKILL SETS YET ALL YOUR TOP PVP PLAYERS ARE USING THEM LOL GUESS WE KNOW THEIR REAL SKILL ZERGING WITH PROC SETS 6V1

[Edited to remove Profanity]

katorga

Vetixio wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

and last but not least if u press x2 a purge all debuffs are gone and ur enemy needs the next 5-10sec jsut to reaply them and in this whole time ulll get close to 0 dmg

This is objectively false. I mentioned why in my previous post, but I'll expand on things a bit.

Lets take my earlier example of Sheer Venom + Unleashed Terror + Maelstrom 2h (and the Malacath Ring, of course). This setup will indeed mean that you're only using a 1 piece monster set, but it seems that a ton of people find that trade off to be totally worth it.

First, the guaranteed DOTs:
Global Cooldown 1: Poison Injection (DOT-1) + Sheer Venom proc (DOT-2).
Bar Swap
Global Cooldown 2: Stampede (DOT-3 as ground-based AOE) + Maelstrom 2h proc (DOT-4) + Unleased Terror proc (DOT-5)

Secondly, the potential DOTs which may also be applied during the aforementioned 2 GCDs, but aren't 100% guaranteed:
Double DOT poisons (DOT-6 and DOT-7), Poisoned status effect (DOT-8), Heavy Weapons bleed proc if Maelstrom 2h is an axe (DOT-9).

That's 5-9 DOTs in two GCDs, which means 2 seconds and not 5-10. A best case scenario for the defender is that none of the "potential" DOTs trigger, which still means 5 DOTs in 2 seconds. And if you're relying on the Purge ability to remove those DOTs, that's 2 GCDs spent for the defender as well - at a drastically higher resource cost than that spent by the attacker, even if using the Efficient Purge morph. But wait, there's more!

Sheer Venom will automatically reapply itself if Poison Injection ticks, and the ground AOE DOT from Stampede is able to automatically reapply the Maelstrom 2h proc. So if the server thinks that your little toe is still touching the ground AOE when your first Purge is cast, it has the potential to be 100% wasted - even without any extra input from the attacker.

It's interesting that these Stamina-based procs can automatically reapply themselves in this manner, but Oblivion's Foe can't. Oftentimes, it really does feel like ZOS goes out of their way to make sure that Magicka-usable (not even Magicka-specific) sets have extra limitations that their Stamina-based counterparts don't. Even with the 6.2.3 nerf to Sheer Venom, they didn't restrict it from proc'ing multiple times from a single Poison Injection.

Like I said before they should remove all the proc sets and rework them to provide unique buffs because any Magicka players who aren't Magblades with Caluurions aren't having fun in the Elder Stamina Procs Online atm. Stamina players particularly Stamblades are loving this meta, also with all the tests going on in Cyrodiil half the time you can't fight back or heal properly without it costing half your resources or being on a cooldown, whereas cloak is not on a cooldown and negates all DoT damage from skills and procs and a NB can hide and reset the fight to snipe dysnc/wait for their procs to come off cooldown and kill people again, so FUN.

Might as well quit complaining about procs. ZOS has decided to go all in on them, improve the old ones, and has been slowly nerfing stat sets. It will remain that way until ZOS for whatever random reason decide to wreck proc sets in one of their quarterly overhauls of game mechanics. It won't have anything to do with user feedback.

1. If ZOS were limited to to stats/buffs on sets, they would have quit making new sets 3 years ago. There are not enough variables to create enough variety. Proc sets allow them to create unlimited new sets.
2. If they start having different stat lines on sets, then the set with the highest value becomes the only viable set, so they cannot differentiate that way.
3. The majority of players LOVE proc sets. Only a small percentage play pvp, do endgame, or even read the forums
4. ZOS thinks proc sets are balanced. They all do roughly the same dps. And that level of dps is so low, they are non-competitive in higher level pve.
5. ZOS will probably implement one of the ability cooldown scenarios in a vain effort to improve performance, and are ramping up proc sets to compensate.
6. With server performance as it is, procs are one of the few reliable ways to deliver damage.

YandereGirlfriend

@katorga There are still tons of ways to make sets that do not include procs.

For example, we finally got a set that had 3X Weapon Damage as the 2-4 piece bonuses in this patch, that could have been done long ago. Medusa from the last patch was the first to have 4X Spell Critical bonuses, etc. There are tons of ways to mix up the standard set bonuses.

For another example, most generic 2-4 piece configurations on damage sets contain 1X of each of Max Stat, Critical Chance, and Damage. Why must that be so? Drop the Critical Chance from a lot of those sets and suddenly they look much better for PvP. The same is true for PvE with generally unwanted lines like Max Stat. Tons of flexibility still exists to better itemize those 2-4 piece bonuses to shade them toward certain kinds of content.

There is also the possibility of adding in new stats entirely to the 2-4 -piece bonuses similar to how Penetration has gradually been introduced over recent years. Why not have Move Speed as a 2-4 piece bonus? Why not have specific elemental resistances? The possibilities go on and on.

And then there's 5-piece bonuses and things still on the to-do list such as Magicka Deadly Strikes or iterating on Morag Tong for all of the different elemental damage types. I could probably go through and whip up sets procedurally and fill up the next 3 years of DLCs.

And then there are proc STAT sets (e.g. Balorgh's) that many consider to be more honest than proc DAMAGE sets. The possibilities for adding such conditional stats are nearly endless.

So there are still vast areas of itemization out there for ZOS to mine that do not include cheesy proc damage sets. ZOS is simply choosing not to explore them.

Jayroo

why not just attain a proc set.

thisoneisdank

how dare you suggest that they nerfed that skilled gameplay
i don't get it why people think that spamming 1 buttons to kill people is not competitive
my grandma can finally play with my smashing her head on the buttons and be good ,you don't know how hard is it for her
those damn multi button spammers that think ahead and use their brain to counter should get nerfed
wtb 5 piece proc set that does 100,000 oblivion dmg when you light attack him if some one use more then 1 ability in a row