volkeswagon wrote: »Ask everyone who complains about it. So you are for the status quo which is fine.
volkeswagon wrote: »Ask everyone who complains about it. So you are for the status quo which is fine.
People who complain are the same types you see in dungeons spamming LAs and refusing to learn the game. People dont wanna put in any effort. It's not difficult to meet quotas/dues. Join guild and trade. Same goes for GMs. The ones who do the work, raffles, auctions etc have no trouble securing traders.
volkeswagon wrote: »Ask everyone who complains about it. So you are for the status quo which is fine.
People who complain are the same types you see in dungeons spamming LAs and refusing to learn the game. People dont wanna put in any effort. It's not difficult to meet quotas/dues. Join guild and trade. Same goes for GMs. The ones who do the work, raffles, auctions etc have no trouble securing traders.
volkeswagon wrote: »I wanted to start a discussion for people to offer their ideas for trading reform. I have two ideas I'd like to share. Please remember that these are just ideas so lets keep our responses limited to your own ideas and respectful feedback and suggestions to each others ideas. So here are mine.
1. Have one trading house in each zones capital city. Houses in Alliance Capitals would hold 20 guilds and ones in other places like Vivec, Alinor, Daggerfall, etc would hold 10-12. Single traders out in the country and in Outlaw refuges could be either eliminated or house 3 guilds. How traders would work is Zos would set trader value for each trader spot. For example Mournhold could be 10 million, Vivec 4-5 million, daggerfall 3 milion, etc. First come first serve. The only thing is there would be requirements to bid on certain traders. For example; to purchase a Mournhold and other top tier traders your guild must be 3 months old with 400 plus active members. To purchase the next tier trader you must have 300 active members with no guild age requirement. The next tier would require 150 active members and the third tier 50 active members. By having a system like this there would be twice the traders available and you would know how much gold you need to purchase various locations. ZOS would act as a landlord and can raise or lower trader costs as well as capacity depending on traffic and demand. This could mean different prices and trader capacities on each server. Traders would become available to purchase during the same time window as the Lux vendor and Golden are. So once you've bought a trader for your guild you know you have one and have till flip to get ready. When someone visits a trading house it would show a list of the traders there and you can search all of them at once or individually.
2. Have no trading guilds. Each individual would be required to purchase a trading license.. The listing fee and commission (formerly guild cut) would very depending on the traffic of the trader. So Mournhold traders would cost the most to list. There could be different licences with different requirements to prevent alt accounts from using the traders for their shady business. Three tiers of traders. Gold tier being Capital traders. Purple tier being Vivec Alinor, Belkarth, etc and a blue tier being the rest. To list at Purple traders and under you must be level 50. To list at gold tier you must he CP 160. Blue tier must be level 10. You can then list up to 10 items at each trader for a total of 150 listings at one time like you have now and 100 max per tier
So here you have my ideas. Obviously there could be some tweeks but you get the basics. Both ideas maintain the seperate traders model as I think one large auction house would create chaos and cut throat prices due to too much competition and market saturation. Let us hear your ideas.
wtlonewolf20 wrote: »volkeswagon wrote: »I wanted to start a discussion for people to offer their ideas for trading reform. I have two ideas I'd like to share. Please remember that these are just ideas so lets keep our responses limited to your own ideas and respectful feedback and suggestions to each others ideas. So here are mine.
1. Have one trading house in each zones capital city. Houses in Alliance Capitals would hold 20 guilds and ones in other places like Vivec, Alinor, Daggerfall, etc would hold 10-12. Single traders out in the country and in Outlaw refuges could be either eliminated or house 3 guilds. How traders would work is Zos would set trader value for each trader spot. For example Mournhold could be 10 million, Vivec 4-5 million, daggerfall 3 milion, etc. First come first serve. The only thing is there would be requirements to bid on certain traders. For example; to purchase a Mournhold and other top tier traders your guild must be 3 months old with 400 plus active members. To purchase the next tier trader you must have 300 active members with no guild age requirement. The next tier would require 150 active members and the third tier 50 active members. By having a system like this there would be twice the traders available and you would know how much gold you need to purchase various locations. ZOS would act as a landlord and can raise or lower trader costs as well as capacity depending on traffic and demand. This could mean different prices and trader capacities on each server. Traders would become available to purchase during the same time window as the Lux vendor and Golden are. So once you've bought a trader for your guild you know you have one and have till flip to get ready. When someone visits a trading house it would show a list of the traders there and you can search all of them at once or individually.
2. Have no trading guilds. Each individual would be required to purchase a trading license.. The listing fee and commission (formerly guild cut) would very depending on the traffic of the trader. So Mournhold traders would cost the most to list. There could be different licences with different requirements to prevent alt accounts from using the traders for their shady business. Three tiers of traders. Gold tier being Capital traders. Purple tier being Vivec Alinor, Belkarth, etc and a blue tier being the rest. To list at Purple traders and under you must be level 50. To list at gold tier you must he CP 160. Blue tier must be level 10. You can then list up to 10 items at each trader for a total of 150 listings at one time like you have now and 100 max per tier
So here you have my ideas. Obviously there could be some tweeks but you get the basics. Both ideas maintain the seperate traders model as I think one large auction house would create chaos and cut throat prices due to too much competition and market saturation. Let us hear your ideas.
Option 1: would require ZOS to essentially pay an employee to micro manage the economy and adjust prices according to what the economy has available. First come First Served is not a good method as it favors people that are most closely aligned to ZOS's server clocks and people that are off clock or on the other side of the planet will be at a disadvantage. Trader prices would need to be adjusted on a week to week basis in order to keep up with gold generation and inflation. Acitve members is Ill-defined even by how ZOS tracks it as one could have 500 active members but only 10 are active sellers, whereas another guild could have 300 active members but have 200 active sellers. its not a good metric to use. there are some VERY successful trade guilds out there where less than half of their members are active traders.
ZOS won't go for this option as it means they will have to pay someone to manage the economy and take responsibility for prices being too cheap or too expensive to use. This option also penalizes guilds that merge or new guilds that are formed that have strong resources and rewards older guilds that might actually be failing. Ultimately you will end up with a situation that is not dynamic enough to react to the economy.
Option 2: Im not convinced that this would prevent shady dealings. level requirements can be bypassed in less than two days. and trolls can shut out lower licensed area by creating artificial traffic by listing and buying form themselves using alternate accounts, thus inflating the costs of all areas. Also i will note that if you remove the ability for trade guilds to operate as trade guilds and stop them competing with each other, the players that love trading will focus their efforts on something else and people will try to corner markets, not to mention that there is a 30 item per trader limit for a reason, and you are lifting that limit by allowing players to list more than 30 items, instead your option will allow more than the max of 150 per account and get some higher than 2000 for items. Players will also mark up prices to account for the license costs. I just don't see it working as well as the current system without accepting abuses. with the trade guilds bad actors can be identified and removed, or isolated to known guilds.
To be honest, there is a simple solution to the problem, and its simply to add more traders to the game. By simply making it so that at even the most isolated locations there are at least 2 or more traders available then it gives people more options. There are only a few reasons why trader locations are more expensive and popular than others. 1) proximity to a wayshrine 2) proximity to other traders 3) the number of traders close by 4) activities that can be done in area 5) whether the area is Base Game or part of a DLC/Chapter. by changing the location of a few traders and adding a few more to the base game and dlc zones then we will have a better system that can include more people.
But one factor you always have to consider is just how many listings ZOS's servers can handle at a single moment. ZOS has stated that we are restricted on housing due to client and server loads, ZOS has limited Guild History (ie trade records) due to its impact on the server (we have documented instances of history queries crashing the system). ZOS has even gone as far as indicating that AOE spamming is causing issues as well. Until a major overhaul of how the servers operate occurs you wont be seeing any major changes to trading.
What's wrong with current system?
ForzaRammer wrote: »the current system is perfectly fine
PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What's wrong with current system?ForzaRammer wrote: »the current system is perfectly fine
That's not the discussion.
GW2, WoW, SWTOR, any of those models are good to me.
One global AH/trade system.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
What's wrong with current system?ForzaRammer wrote: »the current system is perfectly fine
That's not the discussion.
GW2, WoW, SWTOR, any of those models are good to me.
One global AH/trade system.
Why every game has to be the same? People like eso because its different. Why turn it into like every other mmo? If you like others better why not play them. Same goes for combat. Tons of threads where people demand getting rid of weaving and animation cancelling so it can be like other games.
What's wrong with current system?ForzaRammer wrote: »the current system is perfectly fine
That's not the discussion.
GW2, WoW, SWTOR, any of those models are good to me.
One global AH/trade system.
The issue with the current Guild Trade system has less to do with the system itself and everything to do with addons.
Addons for all intents and purposes allow the Guild Trader system to function at the bottom line like a central auction house, which everyone seems to be against but I rarely see anyone complain about the addons (because in truth those addons help make them lots of money). Its hypocrisy.
There is a lot of flipping going on, in a fairly large scale. The people with money are buying out cheaper items and relisting. This would be much less possible without addons.
The original vision of the guild trader system is undone by addons that allow everyone to see all the prices across the entire game, just like a central auction house. The only difference is that people have to race to buy up those items.
What's wrong with current system?ForzaRammer wrote: »the current system is perfectly fine
That's not the discussion.
GW2, WoW, SWTOR, any of those models are good to me.
One global AH/trade system.
New Trading System ideas
What's wrong with current system?
The issue with the current Guild Trade system has less to do with the system itself and everything to do with addons.
Addons for all intents and purposes allow the Guild Trader system to function at the bottom line like a central auction house, which everyone seems to be against but I rarely see anyone complain about the addons (because in truth those addons help make them lots of money). Its hypocrisy.
There is a lot of flipping going on, in a fairly large scale. The people with money are buying out cheaper items and relisting. This would be much less possible without addons.
The original vision of the guild trader system is undone by addons that allow everyone to see all the prices across the entire game, just like a central auction house. The only difference is that people have to race to buy up those items.
wtlonewolf20 wrote: »
<snip> But one factor you always have to consider is just how many listings ZOS's servers can handle at a single moment. ZOS has stated that we are restricted on housing due to client and server loads, ZOS has limited Guild History (ie trade records) due to its impact on the server (we have documented instances of history queries crashing the system). ZOS has even gone as far as indicating that AOE spamming is causing issues as well. Until a major overhaul of how the servers operate occurs you wont be seeing any major changes to trading. <snip>
wtlonewolf20 wrote: »
<snip> But one factor you always have to consider is just how many listings ZOS's servers can handle at a single moment. ZOS has stated that we are restricted on housing due to client and server loads, ZOS has limited Guild History (ie trade records) due to its impact on the server (we have documented instances of history queries crashing the system). ZOS has even gone as far as indicating that AOE spamming is causing issues as well. Until a major overhaul of how the servers operate occurs you wont be seeing any major changes to trading. <snip>
Maybe it's precisely because of the contribution that guild traders and PC marketing add-ons, together with the data held and constantly re-loaded in respect of players belonging to 5 guilds, most of them purely for trading, are likely to make to performance issues that now really is the time to see some major changes to trading.
I share concerns expressed by some posters over the plight of casual traders and new players with the present system. It's fine and dandy for endgame players who spend half their playing time farming high-value dungeons etc to say that guild quotas and dues are easy to make and everyone who can't do so doesn't want to make the effort, but not all players want to trade in that way, they just want to sell on a few mats or drops that they have no use for, and they don't want to be told that they need to be in 5 trading guilds, have PC add-ons, and wait until they are high level in order to be able to do so effectively.
They could easily be accommodated within the existing system by the addition of a NPC trader in the starter cities with whom a small number of items could be listed at a higher commission rate and with the commission shared between the guilds with traders in those cities. That would also assist those guild members who haven't got a trader in any particular week, or at all, but who still want to sell a few specific items.
While I applaud the effort put into the OP's suggestions, I think they would create enormously complicated changes without really addressing the basic problems at the heart of the present system.
The issue with the current Guild Trade system has less to do with the system itself and everything to do with addons.
Addons for all intents and purposes allow the Guild Trader system to function at the bottom line like a central auction house, which everyone seems to be against but I rarely see anyone complain about the addons (because in truth those addons help make them lots of money). Its hypocrisy.
There is a lot of flipping going on, in a fairly large scale. The people with money are buying out cheaper items and relisting. This would be much less possible without addons.
The original vision of the guild trader system is undone by addons that allow everyone to see all the prices across the entire game, just like a central auction house. The only difference is that people have to race to buy up those items.
I much prefer needing to race to the individual traders, its gives people a fighting chance of getting the items they are after instead of a central auction house where a few rich players can check the list of items a few times a day and buy up every single cheap thing, or every one of a rare item and relist it for a massive price hike.
The fact those looking to re list items have to spend a few hours instead of a few minutes to get their hands on the cheaper items gives players the chance to snap up a good deal for themselves.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
The issue with the current Guild Trade system has less to do with the system itself and everything to do with addons.
Addons for all intents and purposes allow the Guild Trader system to function at the bottom line like a central auction house, which everyone seems to be against but I rarely see anyone complain about the addons (because in truth those addons help make them lots of money). Its hypocrisy.
There is a lot of flipping going on, in a fairly large scale. The people with money are buying out cheaper items and relisting. This would be much less possible without addons.
The original vision of the guild trader system is undone by addons that allow everyone to see all the prices across the entire game, just like a central auction house. The only difference is that people have to race to buy up those items.
ZOS should remove/block all pc addons for the trader system. PC crowd can play the game as intended.